Russian Ladies news & discussion

[kalle]

But I think it is not about who she beat in the past. There are three new Tutberidze’s girls moving to senior next season. Two of them have quads, and the third one (Usacheva) is being marked exactly the way Aliona was in the past, to make up for not having any quads. I am not going to start discussion whether she deserved those high PCS, bottom line is, with Scherbakova, Trusova, Usacheva, Khromykh and Valieva, it won’t be easy for Kostornaya to return even if she is in full strength. She lost political power (Pluschenko doesn’t have the same power with the federation as Tutberidze has) and therefore she will have to make it up with her skating. Less political power means smaller PCS and possibly a tiny bit smaller GOE, and being much harshly marked on things like right edges and underrotations. The only way to make up for this would be with a very high technical mark (the strategy Trusova has chosen), but that will be impossible for Kostornaya, without having any quads. So yes, I get she is young and she has all this time to get back, but in reality it will be close to impossible.

This Russian cup final has served very well for Tutberidze’s skater. By Trusova and Scherbakova not being there and Valieva faltering (which she can afford because her position is solid), Usacheva and Khromykh has shown that they can be counted on. Last year we would not imagine those girls beating any of 3A. This competition they solidified their position and within Russia they will now be counted to the complete top of Russian ladies. I wouldn’t be

Not this year, my friend, not this year.

I think that Alena is done. No quads and no triple axel this year. In addition to that she lost all the political power due to leaving Eteri.
She should settle for B-internationals for the next couple of years and roles in Plushenko's shows.
She skates beautifully, yes, but no super-hard elements + mistakes = nope.

Omg..
For sure, competition is stiff in Russia but come on. I feel so sorry for these hardworking skaters that are considered as "done" as soon as they don't have a stellar season. Thanks god there are skaters such as Liza that shows you can have many ups and downs during a career and s and still be considered as one of the best skaters in the world.
Kostornaia is what, 17? I would never count out a skater at that age and on the contrary, have fait that if the drive and motivation is there, she should be able to prepare well for the next season. I still don't understand why she left Eteri camp but that does not mean that I count her out as a skater...
.

 

[BittyBug]

Didn’t she herself say that she wasn’t planning to skate past the Olympics because she wanted to concentrate on her studies and eventually go to medical school? Maybe she’s over skating. It’s not the only thing in life and it wouldn’t be the first time a talented skater left the sport “early.”

 

[hanca]

Omg..
For sure, competition is stiff in Russia but come on. I feel so sorry for these hardworking skaters that are considered as "done" as soon as they don't have a stellar season. Thanks god there are skaters such as Liza that shows you can have many ups and downs during a career and s and still be considered as one of the best skaters in the world.
Kostornaia is what, 17? I would never count out a skater at that age and on the contrary, have fait that if the drive and motivation is there, she should be able to prepare well for the next season. I still don't understand why she left Eteri camp but that does not mean that I count her out as a skater...
.

Sure, but Liza has 3A and quad toe, which Aliona doesn’t have. People are not saying that Aliona is done because of her age, they are saying that she is done because the numbers of lady skaters with quads increased, so her TES won’t be enough (and without having Tutberidze’s political push, her PCS won’t be maing up for lower TES).

 

[tony]

Didn’t she herself say that she wasn’t planning to skate past the Olympics because she wanted to concentrate on her studies and eventually go to medical school? Maybe she’s over skating. It’s not the only thing in life and it wouldn’t be the first time a talented skater left the sport “early.”

That’s the big difference for me. She’s said previously that skating won’t be her life. Of course she can come back with 3As next year and be somewhat competitive, and I don’t discount that it could happen, but we are going to have even more ladies with multiple quad attempts/successes fighting for 3 spots and when the PCS is already in the 9s or very near it for most of them, there isn’t exactly room for someone else to catch up.

But the ice is slippery, we’ve seen total bombs out of Trusova and even Valieva, Tuktamysheva has kept competitive with ‘just’ 3As, etc.

 

[starrynight]

Kostornaya made those comments about retiring at 18 when she was very young and probably just saw a clean straight line to the Olympics. Maybe she will continue to want to retire, maybe she won't. But it's her choice and I think she is special enough to have the ability to keep trying and not give up at the first hurdle.

No one knows what will happen next season or the season after that.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Didn’t she herself say that she wasn’t planning to skate past the Olympics because she wanted to concentrate on her studies and eventually go to medical school? Maybe she’s over skating. It’s not the only thing in life and it wouldn’t be the first time a talented skater left the sport “early.”

She also gave an interview to the contrary this weekend.

 

[mjb52]

A lot of people have said they want to do this or that or the other thing when they are 16. Kostornaya seems driven and motivated and I take her desire to be a neurosurgeon seriously, but she is also really young. You can take it and her seriously and also have the experience yourself of knowing that these things do change.

 

[Wyliefan]

She also gave an interview to the contrary this weekend.

Her experiences this year may have made her take a fresh look at skating and realize she wants to stay with it a while. I'd be very glad to have her around a few more years. Medical school will still be there when she finishes up.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

A lot of people have said they want to do this or that or the other thing when they are 16. Kostornaya seems driven and motivated and I take her desire to be a neurosurgeon seriously, but she is also really young. You can take it and her seriously and also have the experience yourself of knowing that these things do change.

Yes to this. I can't tell you how many "Pre-Meds" were in my classes freshman year and two years later they were in the business school getting a BA in Business. It seemed that Organic Chemistry was the main reason. Which surprised me, because of all the pre-med courses I had to take, Organic was by far the easiest, and I had over 100 average due to the crazy curves. So who knows, maybe she likes the idea of being a neurosurgeon and saying it. But actually doing it is a whole different animal. There was an American skater who Dick and Peggy would constantly say "And when she retires she plans on becoming a cardiac surgeon", and now, she might be still working as a dental assistant, which was the last thing I'd heard about her. It's nice to dream and talk big. Whole 'nother animal actually doing/achieving it.

 

[kalle]

That’s the big difference for me. She’s said previously that skating won’t be her life. Of course she can come back with 3As next year and be somewhat competitive, and I don’t discount that it could happen, but we are going to have even more ladies with multiple quad attempts/successes fighting for 3 spots and when the PCS is already in the 9s or very near it for most of them, there isn’t exactly room for someone else to catch up.

But the ice is slippery, we’ve seen total bombs out of Trusova and even Valieva, Tuktamysheva has kept competitive with ‘just’ 3As, etc.

Well, PCS are in the 9s with National scoring...
I don't say for example that a Valieva would score much lower internationally but the national scoring in Russia is really something

For sure, Kostornaia would need her 3A's back to be competitive but it remains to be seen how a clean 8 triples program would eventually stand up to a program with a quad filled program with a fall or two.

Personally, I would love to see Valieva go for 2 3A's and max one quad in the long to keep a good balance. I love Trusova but unfortunately, there is still a lot of work to be done to make the quads blend in well in her programs and again, the risk for a fall or scratchy landings are pretty high.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Personally, I would love to see Valieva go for 2 3A's and max one quad in the long to keep a good balance. I love Trusova but unfortunately, there is still a lot of work to be done to make the quads blend in well in her programs and again, the risk for a fall or scratchy landings are pretty high.

I definitely think all skaters should learn a 3A, where they can do it in the SP and LP. It seems Kamila has the 3A down, so repeating the 3A in combo would be excellent, plus her 4T is amazing and consistent and gets huge GOE. I see her program with 2 3A and 2 4T. Adding the 4S would be nearly impossible to beat.

 

[Frau Muller]

Her experiences this year may have made her take a fresh look at skating and realize she wants to stay with it a while. I'd be very glad to have her around a few more years. ....

But would we as spectators get to see her, other than in Russian events? (Granted, that’s practically all the skating that we’ve been seeing this season! I mean, in normal times.) If she ends up 9th or 10th at home in the future, like another former European champ from the recent past, what are the chances that she’ll be sent to Intl events? The fountain of talent in Russian Ladies/girls is endless.

 

[Wyliefan]

Prior to Kostornaia, the last few European champions were Samodurova, Zagitova, Medvedeva, and Tuktamysheva. They all subsequently got overtaken by the youngsters, but they all kept getting sent to international events.

 

[love_skate2011]

The two Sofias (Sofia A, Sofia S) are so good, but why does Samodelkina get lower PCS ? she has good skating skills altough slower compared to Akatakyeva, the rest are same with with Sofia A. Samodelkina reminds me of Sotnikova but with better jumps and technique.

Poor Petrosyan looks upset after that skate, rough tilted landings and doubled jumps.
Her technique does not look very good, she has tiny jumps and off axis when in the air. Can it be corrected ?

 

[Japanfan]

It's not the same thing. Comparing a team sport with an individual sport does not work.

It is the same thing when it comes to diversity of athletes in a world or Olympic event.

I mean skiing is not any less of a sport because it may not have an entrant from Lithuania for worlds or Olympics.

Lithuania per se doesn't matter, but diversity matters.

If Denis Ten or Yuna Kim had never had a chance to compete because they came from countries with so little of a skating tradition and had been displaced by Russians/Canadians/Americans, never to earn their world and Olympic medals, would it have been for the better?

It doesn't matter if Canada/USA/Russia dominate hockey competitions and handily beat their opponents - the opponents still get a chance to compete and their country gets to build the sport.

Seriously - how many here would want Worlds to be primarily a competition between Americans, Canadians and Russians, with a few French in the mix?

ETA: Forget to mention the mighty Japanese.

World and Olympic competitions are by definition required to be inclusive events that welcome athletes from many countries.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

It is the same thing when it comes to diversity of athletes in a world or Olympic event.


Lithuania per se doesn't matter, but diversity matters.

If Denis Ten or Yuna Kim had never had a chance to compete because they came from countries with so little of a skating tradition and had been displaced by Russians/Canadians/Americans, never to earn their world and Olympic medals, would it have been for the better?

It doesn't matter if Canada/USA/Russia dominate hockey competitions and handily beat their opponents - the opponents still get a chance to compete and their country gets to build the sport.

Seriously - how many here would want Worlds to be primarily a competition between Americans, Canadians and Russians, with a few French in the mix?

World and Olympic competitions are by definition required to be inclusive events that welcome athletes from many countries.

The Fanyus will hunt you down for excluding the country in your user name.

 

[Japanfan]

The Fanyus will hunt you down for excluding the country in your user name.

 

[hanca]

Seriously - how many here would want Worlds to be primarily a competition between Americans, Canadians and Russians, with a few French in the mix?

ETA: Forget to mention the mighty Japanese.

World and Olympic competitions are by definition required to be inclusive events that welcome athletes from many countries.

I think more people than you think, if the skaters will be really the best in the world. I don’t care where the skater is from, as long as the skate great. So even if there was a field of Russian and Japanese ladies, and Canadian-US ice dancers (with one French team in the mix, and maybe one or two Russian teams too), I wouldn’t mind, if they are the best skaters. I think each of us has a different definition what inclusive means. I don’t suggest to exclude anyone from worlds, as long as they earn it by being in the top 24 single skaters in the world. Whereas your definition is that weaker skaters ‘earn it’ by being from one of the weaker skating country, while much stronger skaters from Russia, USA, Canada and Japan stay at home because they are number 4 in their country! That’s ridiculous. So if, let’s say, Russia had the strongest ladies and there was no other as strong competitors from the rest of the world, someone who is 4th,5th and 6th best in the world stays at home because they are at the same time 4th, 5th and 6th in Russia and the limit is 3 per country, while someone else who may be 50th in the world gets the spot at worlds because she was lucky to be born in a country without a strong competition (or because she has changed the countries)! I think that’s wrong.

 

[Japanfan]

I think more people than you think, if the skaters will be really the best in the world. I don’t care where the skater is from, as long as the skate great. So even if there was a field of Russian and Japanese ladies, and Canadian-US ice dancers (with one French team in the mix, and maybe one or two Russian teams too), I wouldn’t mind, if they are the best skaters.

I would mind. I want to see the best skaters from their respective countries, who qualified for the competition. Not the best skaters in the world according to points.

I think each of us has a different definition what inclusive means. I don’t suggest to exclude anyone from worlds, as long as they earn it by being in the top 24 single skaters in the world.

This absolutely is exclusive, given that the top 24 skaters in the world, in any discipline, are commonly from just a few countries.

Whereas your definition is that weaker skaters ‘earn it’ by being from one of the weaker skating country, while much stronger skaters from Russia, USA, Canada and Japan stay at home because they are number 4 in their country! That’s ridiculous.

'Weaker' skaters earn it by being the best in their respective countries and earning the minimum scores required to attend the competition. World and Olympic competitions are meant to be inclusive and diverse. Best in the world = best in various countries, certain requirements having been met.

So, yes, #4/5/6 in Canada/Russia/USA stay home, because their country has three spots. Number one from other countries get to compete. Hence we call it the Worlds or Olympics.

Weaker skaters only get better if they are allowed to train and compete. That is true for skaters everywhere in the world.

So if, let’s say, Russia had the strongest ladies and there was no other as strong competitors from the rest of the world, someone who is 4th,5th and 6th best in the world stays at home because they are at the same time 4th, 5th and 6th in Russia and the limit is 3 per country, while someone else who may be 50th in the world gets the spot at worlds because she was lucky to be born in a country without a strong competition (or because she has changed the countries)! I think that’s wrong.

I totally disagree. The notion of six Russians, six Canadians, and six Americans, maybe three French, constituting an 'international' competition is ridiculous.

So, yes 4/5/6 from Russia/Canada/America stay home. Athletes from other countries get to compete also.

And I rather doubt that people from undeveloped skating countries get the spot just because they are lucky. They work pretty damn hard to get that spot. Not easy in a country lacking in support and resources.

TBH, I find your argument ridiculous. I am imagining an Olympic opening ceremony with only four or five countries marching in the opening ceremonies.

You would never have given the famous Jamaican bobsled team a chance. You would never given Donovan Carillo a chance, or Martinez from the Philippines.

And what about the Chinese pairs, who came from a disadvantaged position? Should S/Z not have been allowed to compete, given the stronger teams from western developed teams? Should Bin Yao have never been allowed to compete, terrible as he was in his first competitions? He built up a pairs legacy after that, which has flourished.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Well, Junior Russian Cup Final is finished for the Jr. Ladies.
1) Akatieva
2) Samodelkina
3) Petrosyan.

Zhilina yet again did not do well. In SP she fell on every jump and paced dead last. In FS she did somewhat better and finished 8th. Pluschenko came up with gazillion excuses - including "she is getting adjusted the the new coaching situation".... He coaches are her reg coach Rozanov and her mother...........

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Сергей Давыдов on Instagram: "Друзья, во избежание вопросов, деликатно сообщаем сами! Лиза Берестовская перешла в группу Тутберидзе Э.Г., прекрасного ,опытного наставника !!! Лиза, команда Davydov Team желает тебе успехов, мы плодотворно поработали

4,244 likes, 425 comments - team_davydov_cska on March 2, 2021: "Друзья, во избежание вопросов, деликатно сообщаем сами! Лиза Берестовская перешла в группу Тутберидзе Э.Г., прекрасного ,опытного наставника !!! Лиза, команда Davydov Team желает тебе успехов, мы плодотворно поработали и прошли...

www.instagram.com

Berestovskaya has moved from Davydov to Tutberidze.
Your thoughts on this move?

 

[mjb52]

From Davydov you mean?

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Сергей Давыдов on Instagram: "Друзья, во избежание вопросов, деликатно сообщаем сами! Лиза Берестовская перешла в группу Тутберидзе Э.Г., прекрасного ,опытного наставника !!! Лиза, команда Davydov Team желает тебе успехов, мы плодотворно поработали

4,244 likes, 425 comments - team_davydov_cska on March 2, 2021: "Друзья, во избежание вопросов, деликатно сообщаем сами! Лиза Берестовская перешла в группу Тутберидзе Э.Г., прекрасного ,опытного наставника !!! Лиза, команда Davydov Team желает тебе успехов, мы плодотворно поработали и прошли...

www.instagram.com

Berestovskaya has moved from Dudakov to Tutberidze.
Your thoughts on this move?

From Davydov you mean?

Totally!

 

[Frau Muller]

....while someone else who may be 50th in the world gets the spot at worlds because she was lucky to be born in a country without a strong competition (or because she has changed the countries)! I think that’s wrong.

It’s usually the latter. The USA always has at least a dozen ladies at Four Continents who represent countries other than the USA. It makes for a cool overseas vacation.

 

[zoe111]

Well, Junior Russian Cup Final is finished for the Jr. Ladies.
1) Akatieva
2) Samodelkina
3) Petrosyan.

Zhilina yet again did not do well. In SP she fell on every jump and paced dead last. In FS she did somewhat better and finished 8th. Pluschenko came up with gazillion excuses - including "she is getting adjusted the the new coaching situation".... He coaches are her reg coach Rozanov and her mother...........

Well except she was actually 4th in the free skate, less than a point behind Petrosyan. So that's not that bad. She bombed the short, did better in the free - that's been her pattern this year

 

[hanca]

Well, Junior Russian Cup Final is finished for the Jr. Ladies.
1) Akatieva
2) Samodelkina
3) Petrosyan.

Zhilina yet again did not do well. In SP she fell on every jump and paced dead last. In FS she did somewhat better and finished 8th. Pluschenko came up with gazillion excuses - including "she is getting adjusted the the new coaching situation".... He coaches are her reg coach Rozanov and her mother...........

For Christ sake, stop picking on a 12 year old girl. She is much younger than the three you named! She has time to get there.

Just to be objective, see below. Samodelkina, Petrosian and Osokina are all junior eligible this season. Akatieva and Zhilina are not, they will be junior eligible next season. But Akatieva is 10 months older than Zhilina, that’s nearly a year and that makes a huge difference in skater’s skills. The others are over a year older than Zhilina. Zhilina has six months to get ready for a new season and get her harder jumps stable. If she manages to persuade the federation that she is ready, she may get her JGP events, and what she will show then will be important, not what she did before she was even junior eligible. The reason why she scored lower on her last two competitions was falling on the hardest elements (3A and quad). I recall that Samodelkina did not have her 3A very consistent last year either, and she is a season ahead, so why is it so surprising when it is the case of Zhilina? Do you still need to pick up on Zhilina, or will you grow up?

Age eligible for juniors in 2020/2021
Sofia Samodelkina – DOB 18.2.2007
Adelia Petrosian -DOB 5.6.2007
Elizaveta Osokina - DOB 18.12.2006

Age eligible for juniors in 2021/2022
Sofia Akatieva – DOB 7.7.2007
Veronika Zhilina – 15.5.2008

 

[hanca]

It’s usually the latter. The USA always has at least a dozen ladies at Four Continents who represent countries other than the USA. It makes for a cool overseas vacation.

That’s exactly my point. US lady number 20 or 50 will get there by swapping countries, while US lady number 4 is sitting at home. But the hypocrites can be happy, because we are so inclusive, we enable more countries to compete.

 

[Marco]

But would we as spectators get to see her, other than in Russian events? (Granted, that’s practically all the skating that we’ve been seeing this season! I mean, in normal times.) If she ends up 9th or 10th at home in the future, like another former European champ from the recent past, what are the chances that she’ll be sent to Intl events? The fountain of talent in Russian Ladies/girls is endless.

Grand Prix events. GPF if she makes them. Fall or spring internationals.

Leonova was invited to GPs a few seasons after she missed the Euro/World Team because her SB / WS was still high enough.

Same will be true for Alena K. When everything returns to normal, there will be a maximum of 18 spots for Russian ladies at the 6 GP events. As long as she maintains top 24 SB / WS and Rus Fed continues to add her name to the pool, she will be guaranteed 1 GP invite.

 

[Marco]

That’s exactly my point. US lady number 20 or 50 will get there by swapping countries, while US lady number 4 is sitting at home. But the hypocrites can be happy, because we are so inclusive, we enable more countries to compete.

I hate per country rules. Entries to Worlds / Olympics should be determined by SB / WS accumulated throughout the season (and the season immediately before) regardless of what passport the skater's grandmother has or whether that country has another top elite who can earn that spot for the skater. Inclusion is also good and ISU should allow 1 minimum entry for each nation as long as there is someone who has the TES mins.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I would mind. I want to see the best skaters from their respective countries, who qualified for the competition. Not the best skaters in the world according to points.




This absolutely is exclusive, given that the top 24 skaters in the world, in any discipline, are commonly from just a few countries.




'Weaker' skaters earn it by being the best in their respective countries and earning the minimum scores required to attend the competition. World and Olympic competitions are meant to be inclusive and diverse. Best in the world = best in various countries, certain requirements having been met.

So, yes, #4/5/6 in Canada/Russia/USA stay home, because their country has three spots. Number one from other countries get to compete. Hence we call it the Worlds or Olympics.

Weaker skaters only better if they are allowed to train and compete. That is true for skaters everywhere in the world.




I totally disagree. The notion of six Russians, six Canadians, and six Americans, maybe three French, constituting an 'international' competition is ridiculous.

So, yes 4/5/6 from Russia/Canada/America stay home. Athletes from other countries get to compete also.

And I rather doubt that people from undeveloped skating countries get the spot just because they are lucky. They work pretty damn hard to get that spot. Not easy in a country lacking in support and resources.

TBH, I find your argument ridiculous. I am imagining an Olympic opening ceremony with only four or five countries marching in the opening ceremonies.

You would never have given the famous Jamaican bobsled team a chance. You would never given Donovan Carillo a chance, or Martinez from the Philippines.

And what about the Chinese pairs, who came from a disadvantaged position? Should S/Z not have been allowed to compete, given the stronger teams from western developed teams? Should Bin Yao have never been allowed to compete, terrible as he was in his first competitions? He built up a pairs legacy after that, which has flourished.

It is called The World Championship s because it is a competition for the best in the world.
If you want to create a competition for the top two skaters from each country good luck. Though it might be fun to watch who in the world (pun intended) is going to fund it or sponsor it.

The world is not fair.....everyone does not always get to stand on the world stage. That is earned.

There was just a court case here where an applicant does the fire department did not meet the requirements having. She could not pull 290 lbs. Now would you like to volunteer to be the person in the fire that she could not get out? Or the person whose back she was supposed to watch?

Some things just require.....well....requirements.