Tinami Amori
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 20,156
Interview with Sergey Davydov, CSKA coach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=3_iJNPZWL-E
Video interview by Emma Gadzhieva.
EG: We are here at CSKA rink today, interviewing one of the Russia’s top singles coaches, Sergey Davydov and Alexandra Kravtzova (asst. coach). Many fans know that he is raising a group of the strongest single skaters training the most difficult jumps, and able to compete with Eteri Tutberidze’s students. The upcoming Russian championships are expected to be exciting.
We are here at the rink during the typical training session, and Sergey and Alexandra agreed to answer some of our questions.
EG: How many hours does your team spends/works on the ice, per say?
AK: from 4 to 8 hours.
EG: Wow that’s a lot. Now pls tell me how did it come to the two of you working together? I remember, when I still skated, Alexandra was still Sergey’s pupil. How did you become coaching partners?
SD: Yes, change of generations. Alexandra was my pupil; we did not accomplish all we planned. But now as a team we’ll try to again with other students what were not able to do back then.
EG: So it did not work out as “student and coach”, but now as “partner coaches” all is going well?
SD: Yes, in general it is. What is a “good coach”? It’s the kind who never stops, and wants to go further and further (wants more and more).
EG: How many and what kind of groups do you have?
AK: We have 3 groups. Senior, junior and novice.
SD: To clarify. In seniors we only have girls. We chose a different approach this year. To separate the training for men and women (girls/boys). We are now applying different training methods to each, men and women. It’s tough now with men’s skating. Men/boys are harder to work with in general. So we are trying to create two different atmospheres. And then there is a small group of very young girls (novice/pre-novice).
EG: And what are the key differences in boys and girls (training issues)? Back in the days when I skated, the opinion was opposite: boys are easy to train and the girls are difficult.
SD: Well…… physically, there is no difference. The main difference is in their attitude. Girls are hardworking and obedient. Boys are stubborn and lazy. The boys need special handling, not exactly one lashing stick for all, but still, a very tough approach.
EG: From what I noticed in social media, you do have some good boys..
SD: They are potentially good. But before they are called “good” they need to start showing something majorely wonderful (they need to show high results). Until then, they are just skating, practicing elements, and need to be pulled together into one unit, the skating the jumps, before it can be called good figure skating.
EG: It appears now, given the levels required in skating, for both, boys and girls, mostly girls given the competition, that in order to progress a skater needs to work 24/7, ice-gym-choreography, on and on, non stop. For example what is the schedule for a group of skaters, let’s say 12 years old?
SD: Just like you said it, 24/7, ice-gym-choreo. This schedule is called “non-stop”. They come in the morning, work, then have 1.5 hrs break, when they can take a snack or do their homework, and then back to work in the afternoon.
EG: Your work at this CSKA rink. There is also Elena Buianova (Vodorezova) and several other coaches. Does your work over-lap/cross each other?
SD: We work with Elena Georgievna, she helps us a lot, we come to her for advise, she consults us, she is a great coach. She raised Olympic champion, high level skaters, she has experience and the know-how, we have a lot to learn from her.
EG: does it ever happen to you, that your skaters get poached, as it often happens in large training rinks, where a skaters is taken by a higher ranking coach which already raised Olympic champions?
SD: yes it happens, but has not happen to us yet… and what does it really means “taken”? We live in a free country, a skater/parent is free to chose. You can’t just “take someone” as in “by the shirt back”. If skaters want to change, it’s their decision. You can’t force someone to stay, and if you do, there would be no good results. It’s a personal choice.
EG: What does a skater needs to know/be able to do (on the ice) in order to be accepted to your group?
AK: We first look at the age. Then at the child’s attitude/working ability. We give him a trial period to see what he/she can show, that he/she will not stand in one place, can progress/show results. In that regard it matters less what he can do now, than what he can learn. There are also children who already can show/do a lot, but then come out on the ice and don’t want to learn anything. You need to look at the whole picture… the abilities and willingness…
SD: And then there are parents issues…
EG: Oh, yes…. the parents! That’s an issue of its own. Today I watched your practice session and noticed that you allow parents to be present.
SD: Yes, we now allow it, starting this season.
EG: And which one of you thought of this?
SD: It was my decision. In the past we also allowed it as well. Last year we tried to allow parent to attend practices, but not all worked out then. This year we approached the issue from another perspective. We start out by instructing/preparing the parents for the right attitude. We now teach parents “what, how, why” we’re all here, and that what we, the coaches are doing, is for the benefit of their children.
We want the parents to be participants in our process. We want them to understand that when we scold their child, it’s not for nothing, but because the kid is not working hard. That we’re pushing the kid not out of nowhere; that it’s for the kid’s results. We want them to be on our side, help us to motivate, be our partners in this process.
What we want parents to do, is work with their kids at home. Set their minds on hard work and determination. So that when the kid comes here on the ice – he is ready to work hard; to devote himself to the full scope of hard work.
It is not our job as coaches to “set the kid’s mind on hard work”. The kid must come prepared by parents. We should not be the ones pushing them. We don’t have for this “mental setting”, the ice time is limited, on the ice it is time to work. We have 2 sessions, 1 hour each. To spend this hour productively, this year we decided to engage parents.
EG: You said last year’s experiment with parents’ involvement did not work too well? Was there any yelling?
SD: No there was no yelling. Just that with this new approach the attitude of the parents changed. They started to look at the training process differently.Before the parents were looking “how much time the coach spends with his child vs. another child”. Very petty stuff… like “how many times you looked and turned you head towards kid A vs. kid B” and not the results of the session. Really silly stuff… “you looked at my kid 9 times, and at the other kid 10 times”, not paying attention to the actual work process….. Unfortunately that’s typical for any loving parent. They love their kid more than some other kid. It’s of course natural. They think their kid is the greatest of all..
EG: Is there ever a situation where a skater is talented, but parents are impossible?
AK: very often….
SD: very typical situation, those two factors usually come in one bundle. And very often “good skater – difficult parent” and “difficult skater – good parent”. But sometimes we get “both in one bunch”.
EG: Given a choice would you pick “good skater – difficult parent” or “difficult skater…..
SD: Nobody will tolerate a difficult parent! If we have to tolerate difficult parents, all the work is for nothing..! Unfortunately we need to train parents just as children. The parents need to have the right attitude and that’s that. They need to work along side with the coach, in the same accord (on the same wave link). They need to be in step with the coach and with the child.
EG: To cooperate, but not to get involved in the training process?
SD: Preferably not..
AK: They can watch..
SD: however, there are some matters that are strictly parents’ domain.
EG: Well, today when I watched the practice, one of the mothers did quite a job scolding her child. The kid walked just off the ice and put on the skate-covers and the mother already started scolding him “you did not jump well, you missed the beat, you were not listening to instructions”…. and so on.
SD: this is not “interference with the process”. This is exactly what we expect, for parents to be demanding. This is what we ask for. The parent may not know much about skating, but understands that the child was not doing the right stuff and tell him. The parent is not expected to tell the child how to jump a loop, but can tell him “I see you’re not doing it well”.
EG: What is the right method for a parent to choose the right coach?
AK: It’s individual. One coach may work for one child, but not for the other. Method of “trial and error” is not a good option either. I guess by watching how other skaters in that group are doing, watch the practices.
SD: That’s how most parents choose. If they see results, they go for it. It’s logical.
AK: yes.. If a coach does not have successful skaters (skaters with results), what’s the point of choosing such?
EG: Hypothetically, if you see at some competition a very talented skaters, is it allowed to come and to offer him yourself as a coach? What if you see that he/she is “your type of skater”?
SD: We never did or will do that. We don’t think it is the norm. It’s a form of intrusion into other’s territory. It’s a theft… This child is not there in a vacuum. He has a coach, he’s been taught and work was put into him, by another coach. One can’t take away others’ work. However if the child/parent made up their mind and it is their initiative, then that’s another story, like I said before. They are also free to leave us, at any time.
EG: And what happens when a skater leaves you? It’s the end of a relationship, it hurts..
AK: Time cures it all. New children will come. One must look at this as “business/work”, not personal. Not to get attached to the fullest extent. Or you can lose your sense of self. Yes we invest ourselves fully, we give them our all. But we remember that in the end it is parents/child’s decision – to stay or to go. We must either accept this, or get another profession.
SD: But the best way, is to make your student a champion and he’ll stay. Give him Olympic title – and he is yours.
EG: Anna Tarusina has been with you for many years…
SD: yes, and we went through a lot of good and bad.. Skaters chooses, and we try to work hard.
We have to be rough/tough/harsh, with in the allowed limits, of course. The work lately is getting harder. We now have more tech difficulty and quads. You can’t manage children just by “talking them into it”, you have to be tough and to push, just talking alone does not do it. And the kids must understand that without a huge amount of work, without full and complete dedication, there will be no results.
EG: I think the psychological pressure on children is greater than before. I was recently at the Cup of Moscow, and saw Sofia Samodelkina, she was competing against Kamila Valieva and a bunch of kids from this superb group of kids. And I noticed some kids crying. They don’t understand why they did not win, they think they did all they were supposed to do, their jumps were as difficult as you see at the Europeans. They don’t understand their placements and it is psychologically very difficult for them.
SD: Let me start to say, first of all we teach them all that. If you lost – it means you did not do something as good as the winner.
EG: and that is always the case?
SD: yes always! There is always something that could have been done better (always something to find).
AK: yes, even if there is nothing really, there always is something..
SD: my opinion is: if you can’t find something you can do better, you are finished. The higher you set your goals/make more demands on yourself, the further you go (the more you can do).
EG: Do you work with a psychologist in your groups, or it is not yet needed on this level?
SD: Well…. my opinion, is that using “psychology” is not a simple subject. Not everyone accepts it. I remember from my own experience, when I was skating, not with me but with my training mates… Some of them went to a psychologists, and there was not one who benefited from it. They can’t help in a “global sense”. On the other hand, maybe some basics can be useful … as long as it is not too deep and not too complicated.. Because if a skater comes on the ice to jump and falls…. it’s in his head, he is that kind of person. Very little can psychologist do for him. Maybe he can do something immediate, here and there, but then that skater will come out and fall again in another place…
EG: I guess that’s what you call “plus start” or “minus start”…. And if I remember, you (Sergey) had the “plus start”… you were a “plus start” person.. (positive attitude).
SD: Yes, it is about “plus start” (being confident/positive). If one can show more than what he is capable of..
EG: So if you have the wrong attitude, it does not matter how well you practiced it and did it in training, still won’t work…
SD: yes, if someone has something in his head that sends wrong commands to the arms and legs, that’s it..
EG: You’ve been coaching for a long time, and you must have noticed how much younger the sport is becoming and requires difficult jumps. At what point in your career have you determined for yourself that the high difficulty jumps must be taught at an early age?
SD: Actually, it started a long time ago. When I started coaching (2008), it was already so. The tendency was there, 9-10 year old kids were starting to learn triples. At 9 they were training 3 lutz, before such thing was considered fenomenal.
EG: Yes, see that…. Your kids now come out on the ice and start the warm ups with triple flips..
SD: It switched quickly, in two years of my experience… they used start with triple toe, now with triple flips..
EG: So where is this heading towards?
SD: Where it is headed…. Within the rules. ISU makes rules, we follow. There are age categories and requirements. When you’re this age – learn this. When you’re that age – learn the next. There are age guidelines, and you stay within these guidelines, to the maximum.
EG: A lot of discussions about skaters who are not eligible age wise for Senior international events, skating a Russian Nationals in Senior division. What is your opinion?
AK: Thanks to that situation more people are now interested/watching the Russian Nationals. Because those younger skaters can perform how some older ones can not. So the competition itself becomes more interesting. That’s the important part. You can argue the pluses and minuses – 50/50..
SD: Our sport is now very popular just because of that. I don’t know how we rank among other sports, but we are very popular. We are now interesting to many. Last Russian Championship was sold out. We offer people something very interesting, that’s why they come. It is exciting for the audience. The older girls are having a harder time skating.
EG: How difficult it is for a skater to keep the high level technical content for many years? For example you now have Tarusina and Samodelkina (juniors) who can the elements same as Senior girls. Your skaters can easily compete at Senior international championships and place very high. And yet they have few more years to go before they can do so, they need to keep their form until then, and you as coaches need to keep them in that form.
AK: it depends on the athlete. Some can handle it, time will tell..
SD: it’s up to them. One who is willing to endure, when things get tough, might lose, but will control himself, gather up/shape up, and will try harder. It’s hard to say.
EG: So now I see, on junior and even novice level, one can be jumping 3x3, but still wait all these years, until his turn comes and he is the right age?
AK: not wait, but to learn also new elements, something new, to keep coming out on the ice and prove oneself, with new and better… better than others. Because too many now are doing “same old, same old”.
SD: The new reality is quads. It’s not coming up from behind the mountains. It is here today, now.
EG: There was a video recently from your group – someone did a quintuple jump in a harness. Everyone sent me this video, everyone who is not even a fan of skating… Are you teaching it now?
SD: Of course… we also want to be the trend leaders, we want to move forward, show something new. But a 5X jump in a harness is only a step in that direction, a practice tool. It is work in progress… we want to show we’re moving the sport forward, also doing something… that’s all. This is nothing to brag about just yet. We’re working… this is part of work.
EG: What do you plan to surprise us with this season?
AK: with our skaters…
SD: with our programmes…
AK: with clean skates… We plan to do everything to the maximum.
SD: and yes, we plan to show quads…
EG: Which skaters are leaning quads.
AK: Most of them…
EG: Are the names a secret?
AK/SD (in one voice): no, pretty much all of them. Even novices. Must be done.
EG: I asked your students what they think about quads, and do they think they can perform without quads. I recorded their answer, take a listen.
---
Skaters answer about quads:
Tarusina: quads are difficult. I started to learn at the end of last season. This May I was trying 4T and 3A. 4T was doing better. I stopped for a while, I had school exams and lost a week. I am afraid a bit, especially after I fell.
Samodelkina: quad is hard, and not everyone can learn it. I think that quads and 3A is one of the most important aspect of skating, and you can’t do without them in singles. When I was offered to try a 3A, I was immediately so excited to try and see if I can do it. I fell the first time, but really liked it.
Lev Lazarev: Quad jump.. is a novelty, something for me to try. I’ve tried it, but has not got it yet. It is a very important jump. One will not be able to win with out it in a few years.
---
SD: It is a hard process (to teach quads). When you just start to teach it, kids do fall, it’s not fun to watch. We put protective padding on them, not just shorts but try to wrap the whole body, and helmets. It’s still tough, but we protect them as much as possible. But still, those falls in the beginning are no fun. But they learn soon, that it is a regular jump/element, and start approaching it normally. When it gets going, it’s pretty much the same element as others, feels like triple if you’re feeling it, nothing different.
EG: Who is the most daring skater in your groups? The fearless one…
AK: As surprising as it maybe, Sofia Samodelkina…
SD: She is a fighter…
AK: She does not give shit… nothing scares her.
SD: It’s her personality, her character on the inside, she is like that.. fearless.. when she was very young, and now… and as she is growing up, it only becomes stronger.
EG: Seems that one can’t make one learn a quad is one is afraid, like what Tarusina said..
SD: But you can force them to work on it, as long as they are willing.. Nobody is forcing them to do it here and now. It’s a process… they can engage in a preparation practice, take steps, follow a set process, so that the athlete is brought to the point when it can be done.
EG: In your group it is now obligatory to learn 3A and quads…
SD/AK: yes, it is.
EG: But there are skaters who may never be ready.
SD: if one is not ready, then one can go right ahead and be done with figure skating. What’s the purpose then if you can never win?
AK: or you can set some lower goals, reach them, and go on your way do something else… But if one wants results, either do them, or go someplace else.
EG: During local championships, for novices, I often pay attention to the coach standing next to the skater. Last during last Moscow Cup, where Sofia Samodelkina won. When I see some one like you, Alexandra, or Sergey Rozanov from Tutberidze’s group, I mentally prepare myself that these kids will do well, difficult jumps, difficult elements. I think the judges think the same way, Davydov, Tuberidze, their students expected to do well. How does one handles the judges’ attitude in that regard?
SD/AK: yes, it’s there, it’s part of the reality. But we just take it as it is, we’re working hard. We’re just working on it, so that there is such reputation, seeing that it is our skater means seeing the top.
It’s all result of our hard work. It does not happen out of nowhere, it is earned. Tutberdize does not just come out and gets reputation. It’s about hard work and seeing results. Years of hard work. Her kids show results for many years. It’s not out of the blue. It is because of our hard work – and we’re showing and earning it.
EG: What are the most unpleasant part of coaching?
AK: When kids through tantrums. And their parents, who act like they are smarter than we are. When these parents come to us and start setting their conditions (to dictate their rules), or start giving us advise, how to do and how to behave. We don’t come to their work place and tell them how to act and work. And also when the kids start to grow, and puberty… And you worked in one way, and now have to work in another.. and you’re stuck acting like a psychologist, being their “mommy”, and so on….. but otherwise the work is fun.
EG: How do you want your skaters to see you?
AK: They way I really am, just as they perceive me, then that’s how it is. Real and fun.
SD: It’s not how I want to be seen, it’s this… I want them to show respect. And what I really want is for them to unquestionably follow my commands. Just one look from me – and they must run and do what I tell them. If they do that – then it is the best confirmation that they see me how I want to be seen.
EG: and now lets take a listen to what your students said about you, and how they see you.
---
Tarusina: Sergey Dmitrievich is like a 2nd father to me, we’ve been together for 7 years. He can be demanding. Sometimes he is kind, sometimes when I require he’ll pressure me. For example he made me skate my FS three times today. He said if you skate it clean the first time, you can go home. If you fail, you’ll skate it again, until you’re clean. I kept falling and he kept making me skate it again. But nothing is wrong with that. I finally got it clean. I know he wants what’s best for me, good results.
Alexandra Romanovna and I have been working for 3 years. When I came, she was still skating herself, I remember her as a skater. She is kind, but when needed she can be tough. She helps me a lot. When Sergey Dmitrievich leaves for other competitions, she works with me. Last season when SD was away, she helped me a lot before my JGP event. It is thanks to her that I did well at that event.
Sofia Samodelkina: Sergey Dmitrievich is quite a strict coach. He can praise you sometimes when you do something special. But on regular basis you can’t expect praise. First do something, then you may get a praise. If he is in a good mood, he’ll joke sometimes. But when he is pissed, it’s best to stay away from him. Romanovna on the other hand is like a girlfriend, like my 2nd mother. She always supports, helps me. If I ask for help, she’ll give it and all works.
Lev Lazarev: Sergey Dmitrievich is nice but demanding. If you piss him off, he will be meaner. What makes him mad? He gets mad when you fall on the jumps. But I am not going to fall anymore so that he can be nice to me. Alexandra Romanovna is nice, she’ll always explain the mistakes, and does not scold much.
Vasilisa Ryzhuk: He can be both, nice and mean. He can joke but he can also kick you out. And he is a good coach. Alexandra Romanovna is nice, she helps me do my hair. And she often makes jokes.
---
EG: … that was a bit strange..
SD: like I said, this year we change our work approach, added strictness and toughness. It’s within the legal norm, but we did add toughness.
EG: what does this “toughness” includes?
AK: We now don’t give any leeway (no condescension). If you don’t do your work/perform – we kick you out (send you home). Your place will be taken by another child who is willing to do the same work with more diligence. Before we tried to give another chance, and another…. And it did not work… we talked too much..
SD: Now there is less small talk, just actions required. We’re not going to talk – either you do it or don’t. Just go and do it.
EG: Is that because there is a long line outside the door made of skaters with good skills and jumps?
SD: No. It’s because figure skating, and every other sport, today is on such level, that making an athlete do something through pep-talk is not realistic.
AK: If you let them (kids) relax, they start to work differently. Not how we want, not how it supposed to be. The efficiency rate/ration (productive output) goes down.
EG: In the upcoming season, what are your expectations? What is the ideal outcome?
AK: Maximum results.
EG: What does it mean? What has to happen for you to say “this season is perfect”?
AK: I will never say that. It’s like what we expect from athletes – there is always something you can find that you can do better. There is always something you can find that you can do more, can do better. Improve this or that… So I will never say to myself “this is perfect”.. but it does not mean I’ll make myself a nerve reck.
SD: Just like with kids, when you ask them who they want to be, they same an Olympic Champion. Same with coaches.. highest results are very important. For me personally, it’s important to not feel regrets, that I did it all. End of the season I will sit down and feel that yes the season is over and I did maximum. I would examine and fix mistakes, take a vacation, and start a new season. That’s what would be good for me.
EG: You have a wonderful partnership. The atmosphere at the rink is terrific. The children, regardless of your strictness in this new season, seem happy and smiling.
SD: Strictness must be reasonable. Not to the maximum.
EG: Yes, as the kids told me, Alexandra sometimes cracks jokes..
SD: We will try… Try to win, try to work hard.. and hopefully it will happen.
***
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=3_iJNPZWL-E
Video interview by Emma Gadzhieva.
EG: We are here at CSKA rink today, interviewing one of the Russia’s top singles coaches, Sergey Davydov and Alexandra Kravtzova (asst. coach). Many fans know that he is raising a group of the strongest single skaters training the most difficult jumps, and able to compete with Eteri Tutberidze’s students. The upcoming Russian championships are expected to be exciting.
We are here at the rink during the typical training session, and Sergey and Alexandra agreed to answer some of our questions.
EG: How many hours does your team spends/works on the ice, per say?
AK: from 4 to 8 hours.
EG: Wow that’s a lot. Now pls tell me how did it come to the two of you working together? I remember, when I still skated, Alexandra was still Sergey’s pupil. How did you become coaching partners?
SD: Yes, change of generations. Alexandra was my pupil; we did not accomplish all we planned. But now as a team we’ll try to again with other students what were not able to do back then.
EG: So it did not work out as “student and coach”, but now as “partner coaches” all is going well?
SD: Yes, in general it is. What is a “good coach”? It’s the kind who never stops, and wants to go further and further (wants more and more).
EG: How many and what kind of groups do you have?
AK: We have 3 groups. Senior, junior and novice.
SD: To clarify. In seniors we only have girls. We chose a different approach this year. To separate the training for men and women (girls/boys). We are now applying different training methods to each, men and women. It’s tough now with men’s skating. Men/boys are harder to work with in general. So we are trying to create two different atmospheres. And then there is a small group of very young girls (novice/pre-novice).
EG: And what are the key differences in boys and girls (training issues)? Back in the days when I skated, the opinion was opposite: boys are easy to train and the girls are difficult.
SD: Well…… physically, there is no difference. The main difference is in their attitude. Girls are hardworking and obedient. Boys are stubborn and lazy. The boys need special handling, not exactly one lashing stick for all, but still, a very tough approach.
EG: From what I noticed in social media, you do have some good boys..
SD: They are potentially good. But before they are called “good” they need to start showing something majorely wonderful (they need to show high results). Until then, they are just skating, practicing elements, and need to be pulled together into one unit, the skating the jumps, before it can be called good figure skating.
EG: It appears now, given the levels required in skating, for both, boys and girls, mostly girls given the competition, that in order to progress a skater needs to work 24/7, ice-gym-choreography, on and on, non stop. For example what is the schedule for a group of skaters, let’s say 12 years old?
SD: Just like you said it, 24/7, ice-gym-choreo. This schedule is called “non-stop”. They come in the morning, work, then have 1.5 hrs break, when they can take a snack or do their homework, and then back to work in the afternoon.
EG: Your work at this CSKA rink. There is also Elena Buianova (Vodorezova) and several other coaches. Does your work over-lap/cross each other?
SD: We work with Elena Georgievna, she helps us a lot, we come to her for advise, she consults us, she is a great coach. She raised Olympic champion, high level skaters, she has experience and the know-how, we have a lot to learn from her.
EG: does it ever happen to you, that your skaters get poached, as it often happens in large training rinks, where a skaters is taken by a higher ranking coach which already raised Olympic champions?
SD: yes it happens, but has not happen to us yet… and what does it really means “taken”? We live in a free country, a skater/parent is free to chose. You can’t just “take someone” as in “by the shirt back”. If skaters want to change, it’s their decision. You can’t force someone to stay, and if you do, there would be no good results. It’s a personal choice.
EG: What does a skater needs to know/be able to do (on the ice) in order to be accepted to your group?
AK: We first look at the age. Then at the child’s attitude/working ability. We give him a trial period to see what he/she can show, that he/she will not stand in one place, can progress/show results. In that regard it matters less what he can do now, than what he can learn. There are also children who already can show/do a lot, but then come out on the ice and don’t want to learn anything. You need to look at the whole picture… the abilities and willingness…
SD: And then there are parents issues…
EG: Oh, yes…. the parents! That’s an issue of its own. Today I watched your practice session and noticed that you allow parents to be present.
SD: Yes, we now allow it, starting this season.
EG: And which one of you thought of this?
SD: It was my decision. In the past we also allowed it as well. Last year we tried to allow parent to attend practices, but not all worked out then. This year we approached the issue from another perspective. We start out by instructing/preparing the parents for the right attitude. We now teach parents “what, how, why” we’re all here, and that what we, the coaches are doing, is for the benefit of their children.
We want the parents to be participants in our process. We want them to understand that when we scold their child, it’s not for nothing, but because the kid is not working hard. That we’re pushing the kid not out of nowhere; that it’s for the kid’s results. We want them to be on our side, help us to motivate, be our partners in this process.
What we want parents to do, is work with their kids at home. Set their minds on hard work and determination. So that when the kid comes here on the ice – he is ready to work hard; to devote himself to the full scope of hard work.
It is not our job as coaches to “set the kid’s mind on hard work”. The kid must come prepared by parents. We should not be the ones pushing them. We don’t have for this “mental setting”, the ice time is limited, on the ice it is time to work. We have 2 sessions, 1 hour each. To spend this hour productively, this year we decided to engage parents.
EG: You said last year’s experiment with parents’ involvement did not work too well? Was there any yelling?
SD: No there was no yelling. Just that with this new approach the attitude of the parents changed. They started to look at the training process differently.Before the parents were looking “how much time the coach spends with his child vs. another child”. Very petty stuff… like “how many times you looked and turned you head towards kid A vs. kid B” and not the results of the session. Really silly stuff… “you looked at my kid 9 times, and at the other kid 10 times”, not paying attention to the actual work process….. Unfortunately that’s typical for any loving parent. They love their kid more than some other kid. It’s of course natural. They think their kid is the greatest of all..
EG: Is there ever a situation where a skater is talented, but parents are impossible?
AK: very often….
SD: very typical situation, those two factors usually come in one bundle. And very often “good skater – difficult parent” and “difficult skater – good parent”. But sometimes we get “both in one bunch”.
EG: Given a choice would you pick “good skater – difficult parent” or “difficult skater…..
SD: Nobody will tolerate a difficult parent! If we have to tolerate difficult parents, all the work is for nothing..! Unfortunately we need to train parents just as children. The parents need to have the right attitude and that’s that. They need to work along side with the coach, in the same accord (on the same wave link). They need to be in step with the coach and with the child.
EG: To cooperate, but not to get involved in the training process?
SD: Preferably not..
AK: They can watch..
SD: however, there are some matters that are strictly parents’ domain.
EG: Well, today when I watched the practice, one of the mothers did quite a job scolding her child. The kid walked just off the ice and put on the skate-covers and the mother already started scolding him “you did not jump well, you missed the beat, you were not listening to instructions”…. and so on.
SD: this is not “interference with the process”. This is exactly what we expect, for parents to be demanding. This is what we ask for. The parent may not know much about skating, but understands that the child was not doing the right stuff and tell him. The parent is not expected to tell the child how to jump a loop, but can tell him “I see you’re not doing it well”.
EG: What is the right method for a parent to choose the right coach?
AK: It’s individual. One coach may work for one child, but not for the other. Method of “trial and error” is not a good option either. I guess by watching how other skaters in that group are doing, watch the practices.
SD: That’s how most parents choose. If they see results, they go for it. It’s logical.
AK: yes.. If a coach does not have successful skaters (skaters with results), what’s the point of choosing such?
EG: Hypothetically, if you see at some competition a very talented skaters, is it allowed to come and to offer him yourself as a coach? What if you see that he/she is “your type of skater”?
SD: We never did or will do that. We don’t think it is the norm. It’s a form of intrusion into other’s territory. It’s a theft… This child is not there in a vacuum. He has a coach, he’s been taught and work was put into him, by another coach. One can’t take away others’ work. However if the child/parent made up their mind and it is their initiative, then that’s another story, like I said before. They are also free to leave us, at any time.
EG: And what happens when a skater leaves you? It’s the end of a relationship, it hurts..
AK: Time cures it all. New children will come. One must look at this as “business/work”, not personal. Not to get attached to the fullest extent. Or you can lose your sense of self. Yes we invest ourselves fully, we give them our all. But we remember that in the end it is parents/child’s decision – to stay or to go. We must either accept this, or get another profession.
SD: But the best way, is to make your student a champion and he’ll stay. Give him Olympic title – and he is yours.
EG: Anna Tarusina has been with you for many years…
SD: yes, and we went through a lot of good and bad.. Skaters chooses, and we try to work hard.
We have to be rough/tough/harsh, with in the allowed limits, of course. The work lately is getting harder. We now have more tech difficulty and quads. You can’t manage children just by “talking them into it”, you have to be tough and to push, just talking alone does not do it. And the kids must understand that without a huge amount of work, without full and complete dedication, there will be no results.
EG: I think the psychological pressure on children is greater than before. I was recently at the Cup of Moscow, and saw Sofia Samodelkina, she was competing against Kamila Valieva and a bunch of kids from this superb group of kids. And I noticed some kids crying. They don’t understand why they did not win, they think they did all they were supposed to do, their jumps were as difficult as you see at the Europeans. They don’t understand their placements and it is psychologically very difficult for them.
SD: Let me start to say, first of all we teach them all that. If you lost – it means you did not do something as good as the winner.
EG: and that is always the case?
SD: yes always! There is always something that could have been done better (always something to find).
AK: yes, even if there is nothing really, there always is something..
SD: my opinion is: if you can’t find something you can do better, you are finished. The higher you set your goals/make more demands on yourself, the further you go (the more you can do).
EG: Do you work with a psychologist in your groups, or it is not yet needed on this level?
SD: Well…. my opinion, is that using “psychology” is not a simple subject. Not everyone accepts it. I remember from my own experience, when I was skating, not with me but with my training mates… Some of them went to a psychologists, and there was not one who benefited from it. They can’t help in a “global sense”. On the other hand, maybe some basics can be useful … as long as it is not too deep and not too complicated.. Because if a skater comes on the ice to jump and falls…. it’s in his head, he is that kind of person. Very little can psychologist do for him. Maybe he can do something immediate, here and there, but then that skater will come out and fall again in another place…
EG: I guess that’s what you call “plus start” or “minus start”…. And if I remember, you (Sergey) had the “plus start”… you were a “plus start” person.. (positive attitude).
SD: Yes, it is about “plus start” (being confident/positive). If one can show more than what he is capable of..
EG: So if you have the wrong attitude, it does not matter how well you practiced it and did it in training, still won’t work…
SD: yes, if someone has something in his head that sends wrong commands to the arms and legs, that’s it..
EG: You’ve been coaching for a long time, and you must have noticed how much younger the sport is becoming and requires difficult jumps. At what point in your career have you determined for yourself that the high difficulty jumps must be taught at an early age?
SD: Actually, it started a long time ago. When I started coaching (2008), it was already so. The tendency was there, 9-10 year old kids were starting to learn triples. At 9 they were training 3 lutz, before such thing was considered fenomenal.
EG: Yes, see that…. Your kids now come out on the ice and start the warm ups with triple flips..
SD: It switched quickly, in two years of my experience… they used start with triple toe, now with triple flips..
EG: So where is this heading towards?
SD: Where it is headed…. Within the rules. ISU makes rules, we follow. There are age categories and requirements. When you’re this age – learn this. When you’re that age – learn the next. There are age guidelines, and you stay within these guidelines, to the maximum.
EG: A lot of discussions about skaters who are not eligible age wise for Senior international events, skating a Russian Nationals in Senior division. What is your opinion?
AK: Thanks to that situation more people are now interested/watching the Russian Nationals. Because those younger skaters can perform how some older ones can not. So the competition itself becomes more interesting. That’s the important part. You can argue the pluses and minuses – 50/50..
SD: Our sport is now very popular just because of that. I don’t know how we rank among other sports, but we are very popular. We are now interesting to many. Last Russian Championship was sold out. We offer people something very interesting, that’s why they come. It is exciting for the audience. The older girls are having a harder time skating.
EG: How difficult it is for a skater to keep the high level technical content for many years? For example you now have Tarusina and Samodelkina (juniors) who can the elements same as Senior girls. Your skaters can easily compete at Senior international championships and place very high. And yet they have few more years to go before they can do so, they need to keep their form until then, and you as coaches need to keep them in that form.
AK: it depends on the athlete. Some can handle it, time will tell..
SD: it’s up to them. One who is willing to endure, when things get tough, might lose, but will control himself, gather up/shape up, and will try harder. It’s hard to say.
EG: So now I see, on junior and even novice level, one can be jumping 3x3, but still wait all these years, until his turn comes and he is the right age?
AK: not wait, but to learn also new elements, something new, to keep coming out on the ice and prove oneself, with new and better… better than others. Because too many now are doing “same old, same old”.
SD: The new reality is quads. It’s not coming up from behind the mountains. It is here today, now.
EG: There was a video recently from your group – someone did a quintuple jump in a harness. Everyone sent me this video, everyone who is not even a fan of skating… Are you teaching it now?
SD: Of course… we also want to be the trend leaders, we want to move forward, show something new. But a 5X jump in a harness is only a step in that direction, a practice tool. It is work in progress… we want to show we’re moving the sport forward, also doing something… that’s all. This is nothing to brag about just yet. We’re working… this is part of work.
EG: What do you plan to surprise us with this season?
AK: with our skaters…
SD: with our programmes…
AK: with clean skates… We plan to do everything to the maximum.
SD: and yes, we plan to show quads…
EG: Which skaters are leaning quads.
AK: Most of them…
EG: Are the names a secret?
AK/SD (in one voice): no, pretty much all of them. Even novices. Must be done.
EG: I asked your students what they think about quads, and do they think they can perform without quads. I recorded their answer, take a listen.
---
Skaters answer about quads:
Tarusina: quads are difficult. I started to learn at the end of last season. This May I was trying 4T and 3A. 4T was doing better. I stopped for a while, I had school exams and lost a week. I am afraid a bit, especially after I fell.
Samodelkina: quad is hard, and not everyone can learn it. I think that quads and 3A is one of the most important aspect of skating, and you can’t do without them in singles. When I was offered to try a 3A, I was immediately so excited to try and see if I can do it. I fell the first time, but really liked it.
Lev Lazarev: Quad jump.. is a novelty, something for me to try. I’ve tried it, but has not got it yet. It is a very important jump. One will not be able to win with out it in a few years.
---
SD: It is a hard process (to teach quads). When you just start to teach it, kids do fall, it’s not fun to watch. We put protective padding on them, not just shorts but try to wrap the whole body, and helmets. It’s still tough, but we protect them as much as possible. But still, those falls in the beginning are no fun. But they learn soon, that it is a regular jump/element, and start approaching it normally. When it gets going, it’s pretty much the same element as others, feels like triple if you’re feeling it, nothing different.
EG: Who is the most daring skater in your groups? The fearless one…
AK: As surprising as it maybe, Sofia Samodelkina…
SD: She is a fighter…
AK: She does not give shit… nothing scares her.
SD: It’s her personality, her character on the inside, she is like that.. fearless.. when she was very young, and now… and as she is growing up, it only becomes stronger.
EG: Seems that one can’t make one learn a quad is one is afraid, like what Tarusina said..
SD: But you can force them to work on it, as long as they are willing.. Nobody is forcing them to do it here and now. It’s a process… they can engage in a preparation practice, take steps, follow a set process, so that the athlete is brought to the point when it can be done.
EG: In your group it is now obligatory to learn 3A and quads…
SD/AK: yes, it is.
EG: But there are skaters who may never be ready.
SD: if one is not ready, then one can go right ahead and be done with figure skating. What’s the purpose then if you can never win?
AK: or you can set some lower goals, reach them, and go on your way do something else… But if one wants results, either do them, or go someplace else.
EG: During local championships, for novices, I often pay attention to the coach standing next to the skater. Last during last Moscow Cup, where Sofia Samodelkina won. When I see some one like you, Alexandra, or Sergey Rozanov from Tutberidze’s group, I mentally prepare myself that these kids will do well, difficult jumps, difficult elements. I think the judges think the same way, Davydov, Tuberidze, their students expected to do well. How does one handles the judges’ attitude in that regard?
SD/AK: yes, it’s there, it’s part of the reality. But we just take it as it is, we’re working hard. We’re just working on it, so that there is such reputation, seeing that it is our skater means seeing the top.
It’s all result of our hard work. It does not happen out of nowhere, it is earned. Tutberdize does not just come out and gets reputation. It’s about hard work and seeing results. Years of hard work. Her kids show results for many years. It’s not out of the blue. It is because of our hard work – and we’re showing and earning it.
EG: What are the most unpleasant part of coaching?
AK: When kids through tantrums. And their parents, who act like they are smarter than we are. When these parents come to us and start setting their conditions (to dictate their rules), or start giving us advise, how to do and how to behave. We don’t come to their work place and tell them how to act and work. And also when the kids start to grow, and puberty… And you worked in one way, and now have to work in another.. and you’re stuck acting like a psychologist, being their “mommy”, and so on….. but otherwise the work is fun.
EG: How do you want your skaters to see you?
AK: They way I really am, just as they perceive me, then that’s how it is. Real and fun.
SD: It’s not how I want to be seen, it’s this… I want them to show respect. And what I really want is for them to unquestionably follow my commands. Just one look from me – and they must run and do what I tell them. If they do that – then it is the best confirmation that they see me how I want to be seen.
EG: and now lets take a listen to what your students said about you, and how they see you.
---
Tarusina: Sergey Dmitrievich is like a 2nd father to me, we’ve been together for 7 years. He can be demanding. Sometimes he is kind, sometimes when I require he’ll pressure me. For example he made me skate my FS three times today. He said if you skate it clean the first time, you can go home. If you fail, you’ll skate it again, until you’re clean. I kept falling and he kept making me skate it again. But nothing is wrong with that. I finally got it clean. I know he wants what’s best for me, good results.
Alexandra Romanovna and I have been working for 3 years. When I came, she was still skating herself, I remember her as a skater. She is kind, but when needed she can be tough. She helps me a lot. When Sergey Dmitrievich leaves for other competitions, she works with me. Last season when SD was away, she helped me a lot before my JGP event. It is thanks to her that I did well at that event.
Sofia Samodelkina: Sergey Dmitrievich is quite a strict coach. He can praise you sometimes when you do something special. But on regular basis you can’t expect praise. First do something, then you may get a praise. If he is in a good mood, he’ll joke sometimes. But when he is pissed, it’s best to stay away from him. Romanovna on the other hand is like a girlfriend, like my 2nd mother. She always supports, helps me. If I ask for help, she’ll give it and all works.
Lev Lazarev: Sergey Dmitrievich is nice but demanding. If you piss him off, he will be meaner. What makes him mad? He gets mad when you fall on the jumps. But I am not going to fall anymore so that he can be nice to me. Alexandra Romanovna is nice, she’ll always explain the mistakes, and does not scold much.
Vasilisa Ryzhuk: He can be both, nice and mean. He can joke but he can also kick you out. And he is a good coach. Alexandra Romanovna is nice, she helps me do my hair. And she often makes jokes.
---
EG: … that was a bit strange..
SD: like I said, this year we change our work approach, added strictness and toughness. It’s within the legal norm, but we did add toughness.
EG: what does this “toughness” includes?
AK: We now don’t give any leeway (no condescension). If you don’t do your work/perform – we kick you out (send you home). Your place will be taken by another child who is willing to do the same work with more diligence. Before we tried to give another chance, and another…. And it did not work… we talked too much..
SD: Now there is less small talk, just actions required. We’re not going to talk – either you do it or don’t. Just go and do it.
EG: Is that because there is a long line outside the door made of skaters with good skills and jumps?
SD: No. It’s because figure skating, and every other sport, today is on such level, that making an athlete do something through pep-talk is not realistic.
AK: If you let them (kids) relax, they start to work differently. Not how we want, not how it supposed to be. The efficiency rate/ration (productive output) goes down.
EG: In the upcoming season, what are your expectations? What is the ideal outcome?
AK: Maximum results.
EG: What does it mean? What has to happen for you to say “this season is perfect”?
AK: I will never say that. It’s like what we expect from athletes – there is always something you can find that you can do better. There is always something you can find that you can do more, can do better. Improve this or that… So I will never say to myself “this is perfect”.. but it does not mean I’ll make myself a nerve reck.
SD: Just like with kids, when you ask them who they want to be, they same an Olympic Champion. Same with coaches.. highest results are very important. For me personally, it’s important to not feel regrets, that I did it all. End of the season I will sit down and feel that yes the season is over and I did maximum. I would examine and fix mistakes, take a vacation, and start a new season. That’s what would be good for me.
EG: You have a wonderful partnership. The atmosphere at the rink is terrific. The children, regardless of your strictness in this new season, seem happy and smiling.
SD: Strictness must be reasonable. Not to the maximum.
EG: Yes, as the kids told me, Alexandra sometimes cracks jokes..
SD: We will try… Try to win, try to work hard.. and hopefully it will happen.
***
