Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[PRlady]

Sigh. I take a nap and now I’m for persecuting those young Russian moms at my skating rink trying to make their kids into Ilia and Sasha Cohen. (Some of them are very hard on their kids but that’s none of my business.)

Fine. I should have been careful and specified anti-Russia as in the country’s regime, policies, values and actions apparently supported by the vast majority of its people. AS WELL AS its history of doping, unsportsmanlike behaviour, official whining, bragging and exploitation of its own athletes by state-funded coaches etc. Also its imperialist history as brutal and bloody as any other empire but inexplicably overlooked by far left and far right alike.

Therefore I hereby state that Russians who do oppose their regime or who have emigrated and are trying to make new lives for themselves are AOK. I thought that was obvious but I guess not.

 

[VGThuy]

Sigh. I take a nap and now I’m for persecuting those young Russian moms at my skating rink trying to make their kids into Ilia and Sasha Cohen. (Some of them are very hard on their kids but that’s none of my business.)

Fine. I should have been careful and specified anti-Russia as in the country’s regime, policies, values and actions apparently supported by the vast majority of its people. AS WELL AS its history of doping, unsportsmanlike behaviour, official whining, bragging and exploitation of its own athletes by state-funded coaches etc. Also its imperialist history as brutal and bloody as any other empire but inexplicably overlooked by far left and far right alike.

Therefore I hereby state that Russians who do oppose their regime or who have emigrated and are trying to make new lives for themselves are AOK. I thought that was obvious but I guess not.

I actually understood what you were saying, and my post was more in response to those who took your post in a certain way. I think many have learned that it’s best practice to be super clear and exact with online discourse and explain everything as if people can’t read intuitively or that they just can’t see subtext just so your intentions aren’t misinterpreted because, otherwise, people can choose to take anything you write in the worst way, some may do so for their own motivations while others actually read what you write and believe you mean something much worse.

Now, I do think a discourse can still be useful just to discuss implications of what one may say and show off patterns we may be blind to.

 

[PRlady]

TBH, it’s astonishing to me that anyone would think I can’t tell the difference between hating Israeli apartheid and oppression, the country’s leadership and those who support them, and plain ole hating Jews.

The key difference being that here there are thousands and thousands of people in the streets every week for 40 weeks straight protesting the government, with a growing number protesting the settlements and occupation as well as anti-democratic judicial overhaul. And the fact that they can and do is because even this country’s leaders know you can’t stop great numbers of people exercising their rights.

Meaning Russia doesn’t have a similar proportion of protesters and nobody has any rights anyway.

 

[Maximillian]

Wrong thread

 

[PRlady]

One more post on this topic because I can’t resist:

https://x.com/markgaleotti/status/1708524947595833731?s=46&t=9ftgyoBTKejM44oWnhroXA

 

[On My Own]

I should have been careful and specified anti-Russia as in the country’s regime, policies, values and actions apparently supported by the vast majority of its people.

Skatingguy before you already did make the distinction between anti Russian and anti Putin lol. Although I do find this conversation more and more eyeroll-worthy on this forum, so there's definitely that embedded into my replies at this point, even if not as much as what I'll say to caseyedwards.

 

[caseyedwards]

It’s very silly to act like the feelings toward Russians on this board is really that much different from before the war on Ukraine to now!! I joined in 2009 and the venomous hatred of Russians was always extreme. Almost everyone wanted boycott of Sochi because of gay rights. Almost everyone said Domnina and shabalin were racist monsters , opposed sotnikova win, opposed Plushenko getting medal in Vancouver, and on and on

 

[On My Own]

It’s very silly to act like the feelings toward Russians on this board is really that much different from before the war on Ukraine to now!! I joined in 2009 and the venomous hatred of Russians was always extreme. Almost everyone wanted boycott of Sochi because of gay rights. Almost everyone said Domnina and shabalin were racist monsters , opposed sotnikova win, opposed Plushenko getting medal in Vancouver, and on and on

I am sure there are lingering anti Soviet sentiments from some posters, whatever justification might exist for exercising such feelings currently being beside the point to me, but I doubt what you're saying about "almost everyone".

And Domnina/Shabalin's program WAS racist.

 

[VGThuy]

the venomous hatred of Russians was always extreme. Almost everyone wanted boycott of Sochi because of gay rights. Almost everyone said Domnina and shabalin were racist monsters , opposed sotnikova win, opposed Plushenko getting medal in Vancouver, and on and on

I mean... you need better examples to show deep-seated, irrational animus against Russia.

 

[PRlady]

Not to mention some of us anti-Russians thought Sot had indeed won and had no strong opinions about Lysacek vs Plushy (I didn’t care for either one and was happiest about Dai’s bronze.) Some of us were Med ubers and Radio, Pogo and Lip had plenty of fans. It was only when the damaging nature of the Eteri factory became really apparent, with more than half her skaters retiring very young after injury, that animosity to her methods grew.

I liked Dom/Shab as a team despite the racist OD and rooted for Tarasova/Morozov for years. People disliked Katsapolov because he’s a jerk, not because he’s Russian (Bukin always had a lot of fans.) Kolyada’s skating was almost universally admired.

For every skating fan who rooted against Russians, there were equal numbers making fun of US pairs, Canadian perkiness, Korean same-same ladies, French weirdness and Federation dysfunction, Igor/Marina choreo, pwetty pwincesses, Japanese love of warhorse music and on and on.

So to mash up anti-Russia political sentiment with skating fandom is laughable.

 

[On My Own]

It’s very silly to act like the feelings toward Russians on this board is really that much different from before the war on Ukraine to now!! I joined in 2009 and the venomous hatred of Russians was always extreme. Almost everyone wanted boycott of Sochi because of gay rights. Almost everyone said Domnina and shabalin were racist monsters , opposed sotnikova win, opposed Plushenko getting medal in Vancouver, and on and on

See? Many people lack taste just as much as you do!

 

[Mafke]

act like the feelings toward Russians on this board

You are being hysterical....
Get back to the topic, the russian federation's blatant cheating and tiresome antics in trying to worm its way out of responsibility.

I've yet to see a single good reason why the medal ceremony was delayed.

How many other medal ceremonies did not take place during the olympics?

 

[MacMadame]

I've yet to see a single good reason why the medal ceremony was delayed.

My theory is that the ISU and IOC did not want to give a Gold Medal to Russia and thought that not having a medal ceremony would put them in a stronger position when it came to banning Valieva.

It clearly didn't work. In fact, IMO, it has backfired spectacularly.

 

[On My Own]

I've yet to see a single good reason why the medal ceremony was delayed.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

My theory is that the ISU and IOC did not want to give a Gold Medal to Russia and thought that not having a medal ceremony would put them in a stronger position when it came to banning Valieva.

It clearly didn't work. In fact, IMO, it has backfired spectacularly.

The ISU and IOC wanted to give the gold medal to the winner.

 

[Mafke]

did not want to give a Gold Medal to Russia

Was there a russian team? Was the russian flag a part of the games?

ISU and IOC wanted to give the gold medal to the winner

AKA the USA (after disqualification of motley crew of russians allowed to compete.... for some reason).

The russians and their constant cheating and drama make any sport they're involved with make professional wrestling look legitimate by comparison....

 

[MacMadame]

Was there a russian team? Was the russian flag a part of the games?

Are you being dense on purpose to make a point? Yes, there was a Russian team. It even had Russia in the name. Let's not pretend that technicalities made a difference in this.

 

[caseyedwards]

Are you being dense on purpose to make a point? Yes, there was a Russian team. It even had Russia in the name. Let's not pretend that technicalities made a difference in this.

It’s not a technicality. Russia gets no credit for those victories ever.

The ioc recognized there was a country outside of the Olympics movement named Russia but no one was allowed to represent it officially

 

[On My Own]

It’s not a technicality. Russia gets no credit for those victories ever.

Nobody cares.

The ioc recognized there was a country outside of the Olympics movement named Russia but no one was allowed to represent it officially

Nobody cares.

 

[caseyedwards]

False

 

[VGThuy]

And the Unified Team competed at the 1992 Olympics, but people still called them "The Soviets" then and even now, thirty years later.

 

[On My Own]

Are you being dense on purpose to make a point? Yes, there was a Russian team. It even had Russia in the name. Let's not pretend that technicalities made a difference in this.

Especially with like, how much money Medvedeva and Zagitova made off PyeongChang just as an example, or as I reposted that instagram video of how Medvedeva had sewn the Russian flag to the inside of her coat at PyeongChang lol. Who's really believing it had nothing to do with Russia?

 

[caseyedwards]

And the Unified Team competed at the 1992 Olympics, but people still called them "The Soviets" then and even now, thirty years later.

That was true it was the former Soviet Union team and it was their choice

 

[Mafke]

Yes, there was a Russian team

Exactly! Proven cheaters (worse than their former pets the East Germans) allowed to compete... that should be a scandal!
russian athletes need to be banned period so we can just forget about them and not have to deal with their immature drama and paranoia.... I would be happy if I never heard the word 'russia' again by now....

 

[Pink Cats]

That was true it was the former Soviet Union team and it was their choice

It was also their choice to have a state-run doping ring and thus their choice to be disqualified!

 

[caseyedwards]

It was also their choice to have a state-run doping ring and thus their choice to be disqualified!

False. All sports are state sponsored not all behavior in those sports

 

[VGThuy]

That was true it was the former Soviet Union team and it was their choice

The point is, “A rose by any other name…”

Sure, Russia the state may not have officially be recognized as the home state of the athletes who competed, placed, medaled, and/or won competitions at the Olympics during the relevant years and currently, but the athletes have a forum state (a domicile), were sponsored by the state of Russia’s current regime, came from official training centers that the state of Russia would have recognized had the state not been officially banned, were taken care of by Russia’s official sport ministry, the athletes were recognized as being from Russia at the Olympics, and the Russian Federation certainly held their Olympians out with a sense of pride as if they were representing Russia and achieved results for Russia.

Not to mention, official state entities are invested in defending this specific Russian athlete in her doping case, and want to keep the team event gold medal as if Russia itself has a stake in it.

Whether Russia was represented de jure or officially is besides the point. Belaboring the argument that Russia wasn’t represented at the Olympics even though Russia was named in the “Olympics Athletes from Russia” or “Russian Olympic Committee” is just intentionally arguing a point that doesn’t matter as the Russian people have celebrated the results with national spirit and fervor shows that they know what’s up. You even labeled this situation as “anti-Russian” sentiment. All of that shows was Russia was represented de facto.

 

[Vagabond]

It was also their choice to have a state-run doping ring

"They had no other way of earning a living."

 

[tony]

"They had no other way of earning a living."

I know you think it's witty to keep quoting this, but you aren't in any of their shoes and most of them don't have the education to go around and (not-so-humble) brag about being a lawyer. They and their families put a lot of money and time into the sport, and it's not as easy as just giving it up and 'going to school to be a [whatever you said in another post]'. Even if they do have money from their skating careers, they'd have to put a lot of it into schooling or whatever else to go a completely different direction.

I don't find it that difficult to understand the complex layers of the situation and not wanting to give up years-worth of money and time and start over.

Once again, I'm not defending any Russians at all, but I'm also not delusional to think that I or most people here would just uproot their lives because some people in other countries, people that have never faced such an issue, think I should do it.

 

[Karen-W]

I know you think it's witty to keep quoting this, but you aren't in any of their shoes and most of them don't have the education to go around and (not-so-humble) brag about being a lawyer. They and their families put a lot of money and time into the sport, and it's not as easy as just giving it up and 'going to school to be a [whatever you said in another post]'. Even if they do have money from their skating careers, they'd have to put a lot of it into schooling or whatever else to go a completely different direction.

I don't find it that difficult to understand the complex layers of the situation and not wanting to give up years-worth of money and time and start over.

Once again, I'm not defending any Russians at all, but I'm also not delusional to think that I or most people here would just uproot their lives because some people in other countries, people that have never faced such an issue, think I should do it.

Heck, it's difficult enough for most people to just uproot their lives and relocate within their own country, much less to a whole other country. While I do think that some of the very most successful of Russian skaters (ie Olympic and world medalists) probably should/do have the financial means necessary to relocate if they really wanted, I can understand the reluctance. It's easy for us to sit in moral judgement (and I did it early on in the war, and to an extent still do), but how many of us would make the same choice the Russians have made if we were in their position and choose to remain close to family, friends, everything familiar?