Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[Bigbird]

Deleted.

 

[DELTA]

It's not the same thing, and I don't appreciate you inferring things in my posts that are not there - especially after I've explained what I meant. Don't bother responding to what I post if you're going to mischaracterize it.

You either think you know or know. There is no other way.

 

[Orm Irian]

Suppose it is determined that Team Eteri took performance enhancing drugs. Do you strip all the senior women of their 2021-22 medals (including any they may win at the Olympics or possibly Worlds)? Do you strip the medals of other skaters she coached (Kvitelashvili, Tarasova/Morozov)? Are the skaters she coached allowed to compete in 2022-23? Are the junior skaters she coached banned? Would Alexandra Trusova, who started with Team Eteri, left it to be coached by Plushenko, and then returned to Team Eteri be under special scrutiny?

These aren't rhetorical questions and I'm not trying to make a point. I'm really curious about what people here think the ramifications should be for the skaters who have seemed to benefit from Eteri's coaching.

I'd treat it in the same way as any other historical doping case. If given specific cause, retest the relevant athletes' held samples from the relevant time period, with an appropriate level of stringency based on the known facts, and if a sample tests positive for any form of metabolic modification drugs, give the athlete the opportunity to defend themself in court.

If the athlete claims innocence or accidental ingestion, they should then be subject to the same requirements as any other athlete who does so: prove without a shadow of a doubt exactly what the source of the accidental ingestion was, no matter how or when it happened, or how much it costs them to do so, or be presumed guilty, lose their career, be stripped of any titles and medals won, and have to pay back any prize money awarded.

Laurine Lecavelier lost her entire skating career over a positive drug test at a domestic competition because she was never able to prove exactly where the microscopic trace in her urine sample came from. Why should Kamila Valieva or any other athlete be treated one whit differently just because they are or at some time in the past have been coached by Eteri Tutberidze?

 

[barbarafan]

Oh really? If you have this wonder drug, then why do you need the one that was found in Valieva's test?

That drug is now banned. As I guess the migraine cloaking drug will now be banned.

 

[MacMadame]

You're assuming too much

I'm not assuming that Eteri gave an interview where she said that taking meldonium isn't doping because all it does is help with recovery. Those are her words, not mine.

The clip was sent via email. The story explicitly says that it was sent by an IOC official, and from the wording in the story it sounds like the official's name was on the account (i.e. it wasn't from [email protected] or some general account like that). If the official's account was hacked to send the email, then that needs to be investigated too.

I don't see how sending the clip is going to influence the case. The arbitrators have already seen it. It might influence how the media reports on it, but not the decision of CAS itself.

You either think you know or know. There is no other way.

So if I say "Charles Manson thinks killing is fun" that means I think killing is dumb? That's stupid.

 

[Coco]

When were the Russian Nationals samples shipped to Sweden?

 

[Sylvia]

Edited to add a more accurate translation of Pozdnyakov's quote (bolded below):

The interview was with the Sunday Time program on Channel One:
https://rsport.ria.ru/20220213/valieva-1772615394.html
“According to the WADA international standards for accredited anti-doping laboratories, this result should have been uploaded into the system within 20 days after arrival to the laboratory. Even if we take 20 days, which is the maximum time, it turns out that the sample was delivered to the Stockholm laboratory on January 19 but it was taken on December 25. That is, it's almost a month it has been wandering around somewhere," Pozdnyakov said in an interview with the Sunday Time program on Channel One.
[Note: Which would mean that, in case the maximum 20 days of analyzing the result were used, that the sample would have arrived on January 19. He does not say that the sample actually arrived on that day.]
"And the second point. It looks very, very strange that this test was made public just after the Russian team won the gold medal in the team tournament. Therefore, until I get all these questions intelligibly, clearly and distinctly, I will put under doubt the transparency of this procedure," the head of the ROC added.

 

[Bigbird]

When were the Russian Nationals samples shipped to Sweden?

I think January 19th, but I need someone else to confirm.

 

[tony]

I think January 19th, but I need someone else to confirm.

No, it says it was delivered that day. It hasn't been addressed what happened between the 25th and the 19th and whose fault it would be.

 

[Bigbird]

Pozdnyakov claimed that Valieva's sample "was delivered to the Stockholm laboratory on January 19" - if true, where was her sample between Dec. 25 and Jan. 19?

This. This beats reality TV hands down. Oh my goodness.

 

[Bigbird]

No, it says it was delivered that day. It hasn't been addressed what happened between the 25th and the 19th and whose fault it would be.

So RUSADA didn't expedite shipping of the sample(s)? Why?

 

[VGThuy]

Hasn’t RUSADA been in trouble recently for non-compliance of WADA procedures and protocol? This seems like another example of non-compliance.

 

[tony]

So RUSADA didn't expedite shipping of the sample(s)? Why?

Seeing how we are discussing how no one has taken the blame just yet nor is there an official timeline of where the sample was from the 25th to the 19th, I don't think you're going to get an answer from anyone here

It's an important component to everything, though, because Russia whining about the timing of the results would be if it's their own procedural error.

 

[aka_gerbil]

No, it says it was delivered that day. It hasn't been addressed what happened between the 25th and the 19th and whose fault it would be.

Did Russia ship them on time and they got delayed? Were they somewhere in Russia? Was anyone else’s sample also delayed?

Where that sample was at in those days and was it properly handled/stored is an important question.

 

[overedge]

You either think you know or know. There is no other way.

Welcome to my ignore list, troll.

 

[Sylvia]

Pozdnyakov claimed that Valieva's sample "was delivered to the Stockholm laboratory on January 19" - if true, where was her sample between Dec. 25 and Jan. 19?

Someone who reads Russian informs me that a more accurate translation of what Pozdnyakov is quoted as saying in the article I posted is as follows:

“According to the WADA international standards for accredited anti-doping laboratories, this result should have been uploaded into the system within 20 days after arrival to the laboratory. Even if we take 20 days, which is the maximum time, it turns out that the sample was delivered to the Stockholm laboratory on January 19 but it was taken on December 25. That is, it's almost a month it has been wandering around somewhere."

Which would mean that, in case the maximum 20 days of analyzing the result were used, that the sample would have arrived on January 19. He does not say that the sample actually arrived on that day.

 

[tony]

Someone who reads Russian informs me that a more accurate translation of what Pozdnyakov is quoted as saying in the article I posted is as follows:

“According to the WADA international standards for accredited anti-doping laboratories, this result should have been uploaded into the system within 20 days after arrival to the laboratory. Even if we take 20 days, which is the maximum time, it turns out that the sample was delivered to the Stockholm laboratory on January 19 but it was taken on December 25. That is, it's almost a month it has been wandering around somewhere."

Which would mean that, in case the maximum 20 days of analyzing the result were used, that the sample would have arrived on January 19. He does not say that the sample actually arrived on that day.

The plot (ETA: potentially) thickens, then. If Russia actually sent it off and they have some kind of trail of doing so, then even I have huge questions about the timing of everything falling just after the team event ended. And being honest, a sample potentially having floated around for 25 days is already a bit suspicious.

 

[becca]

The plot thickens, then. If Russia actually sent it off and they have some kind of trail of doing so, then even I have huge questions about the timing of everything falling just after the team event ended. And being honest, a sample potentially having floated around for 25 days is already a bit suspicious.

Yes I don’t like the timing of this

 

[Amantide]

NYT article by Tariq Panja:

Kamila Valieva’s arbitration hearing is over. Here’s what comes next. (Published 2022)

The hearing will determine if the Russian figure skater who failed a pre-Olympics doping test will be able to continue to compete at the Beijing Games.

www.nytimes.com

Excerpts:

As a minor, Valieva enjoys a different status from older athletes, meaning any punishment that may eventually be meted out is likely to be less severe than those typically issued for a similar failed test by an adult. But that is a conversation for another day, and for another hearing that is most likely months away.

Another reason not to let minors compete with seniors.

 

[MacMadame]

https://twitter.com/ifsmagazine/status/1492977071739613193

We are to expect a decision at 1am ET on Feb 15th. Which is 10pm PT. I don't even have to stay late up for that!

 

[tony]

No, 3AM and midnight for you I believe I read? Maybe IFS knows further details, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere else on the board that there was a document saying 3AM. Could be wrong. Corrected below.

 

[VGThuy]

No, 3AM and midnight for you I believe I read? Maybe IFS knows further details.

I read 2pm Beijing time which has been around 1am EST/midnight CT

 

[tony]

I read 2pm Beijing time which has been around 1am EST/midnight CT

Yeah, scratch that. The Sarah & Drew post also said 1AM.

 

[Bigbird]

Seeing how we are discussing how no one has taken the blame just yet nor is there an official timeline of where the sample was from the 25th to the 19th, I don't think you're going to get an answer from anyone here

It's an important component to everything, though, because Russia whining about the timing of the results would be if it's their own procedural error.

This gets better by the minute, it's just surreal. It's like they're in an alternate universe.

 

[Allskate]

The video outlining one aspect of Russia’s defense appeared to be the only one that the Olympic official shared with members of the news media.

I would love to know the nationality of this particular IOC member.

The head of the Russian Olympic Committee (ROC), Stanislav Pozdnyakov, called the delay in the publication of a positive doping test of Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva at the Beijing Olympics "very, very strange".

Yes, it is very strange. Is he going to blame another country for the delay? I don't see what motive Sweden would have for the delay.

Good question. But if chain of custody is compromised does that mean she gets to skate? Does this call into question the results of the entire team?

I really, really hope that they don't let her skate because of a delay. If that were the case, then Russia would just always delay sending the samples and dope in the leadup to the Olympics.

ETA: Ultimately, the issue is whether the results really were positive. I have yet to understand how the delay actually caused a positive result. This video may just be a distraction for the media or something for Russians to grab on to as a defense or claim of victimhood. But, to me, if she's positive, she must not be allowed to compete. The IOC handling of Russian doping already is absurd, but this would take it to a whole new level.

 

[Vagabond]

I thought it had been established that the lab was backlogged due to you-know-what absences. (The lab's in Sweden, after all.) Under the circumstances, the sample could have been delivered to the lab a few days after the sample was taken and sat around for weeks. Or does the Russian Olympic Committee expect us to believe that there is no you-know-what?

 

[tony]

I thought it had been established that the lab was backlogged due to you-know-what absences. (The lab's in Sweden, after all.) Under the circumstances, the sample could have been delivered to the lab a few days after the sample was taken, and sat around for weeks. Or does the Russian Olympic Committee expect us to believe that there is no you-know-what?

But to be fair, we hardly know any details so I don't think anyone expects anyone to think anything just yet. If Russia had many samples going out from Nationals weekend and the rest came back in a timely fashion, for example, wouldn't that raise some eyebrows if Russia could prove they were all sent together? Although I don't know how they could really prove it unless there was a departure scan for each individual sample or something along the likes.

Yes, the Russian talking heads could indeed be morons but as far as I've seen it, there was discussion about Covid being a possibility for the slow turn-around rather than what definitely happened.

 

[Bigbird]

I thought it had been established that the lab was backlogged due to you-know-what absences. (The lab's in Sweden, after all.) Under the circumstances, the sample could have been delivered to the lab a few days after the sample was taken, and sat around for weeks. Or does the Russian Olympic Committee expect us to believe that there is no you-know-what?

I think that's why that clip was leaked. It establishes that the error couldn't be with the lab but lies with the ROC, and if it does, then they've got some 'splaining to do. They have violated the terms of their parole spectacularly. They could ban the entire team. It's not outside the realm of reality. Or, they could let them compete but then strip them of all medals earned. This is unbelievable.

 

[Sylvia]

CAS' press release:

The CAS hearing in the arbitration procedures relating to figure skater Kamila Valieva has concluded

www.tas-cas.org

OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES BEIJING 2022 (7)

THE CAS HEARING IN THE ARBITRATION PROCEDURES RELATING TO FIGURE SKATER KAMILA VALIEVA HAS CONCLUDED

Beijing, 14 February 2022 – The hearing of the Ad hoc Division of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in the arbitration procedures relating to figure skater Kamila Valieva came to an end at 02:10am on 14 February 2022.

The hearing started at 8:34pm on 13 February 2022 and was conducted by video-conference from the temporary CAS offices in Beijing.

The following parties and their representatives attended the hearing:

International Olympic Committee (IOC)
World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA)
International Skating Union (ISU)
Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA)
Ms Kamila Valieva
Russian Olympic Committee (ROC)

The CAS Panel is now deliberating and will issue its decision on 14 February 2022, at around 2.00pm (Beijing time). A media release will be published on the CAS website shortly thereafter.

 

[Karen-W]

But to be fair, we hardly know any details so I don't think anyone expects anyone to think anything just yet. If Russia had many samples going out from Nationals weekend and the rest came back in a timely fashion, for example, wouldn't that raise some eyebrows if Russia could prove they were all sent together? Although I don't know how they could really prove it unless there was a departure scan for each individual sample or something along the likes.

Yes, the Russian talking heads could indeed be morons but as far as I've seen it, there was discussion about Covid being a possibility for the slow turn-around rather than what definitely happened.

But, it begs the question, why would JUST Valieva's sample be delayed? Furthermore, if I'm to understand the process - the samples are actually just tagged with a code that doesn't identify the subject by name. So, it really would take some serious manipulation and planning to pick Valieva's sample, of all the samples received, out and delay its delivery to the lab or processing for results. It's just... too convenient. But, par for the course where Russia refuses to take any responsibility for their own incompetence.