Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[DELTA]

A little more that I saw on Twitter about the team doctor/Xenon thing. Crazy stuff!

https://twitter.com/LiftLoopLunge/status/1492904301810831360/photo/1

Oh really? If you have this wonder drug, then why do you need the one that was found in Valieva's test?

 

[BittyBug]

A little more that I saw on Twitter about the team doctor/Xenon thing. Crazy stuff!

https://twitter.com/LiftLoopLunge/status/1492904301810831360/photo/1

Crazy stuff, indeed, but crazier still is that the team doctor has a known history of doping. At a minimum, the optics are terrible.

 

[DELTA]

This is OT, but I just learned KV has a history of being bullied. And now she has to go through this.

Бывший тренер Валиевой рассказал, как ее подставили подруги по команде, спровоцировав драку

Игорь Лютиков, бывший тренер Камилы Валиевой, рассказал о том, как от него ушла российская фигуристка, будущая чемпионка России и Европы, а также олимпийская чемпионка Пекина в командном турнире.

www.kp.ru

 

[Bouffantrex]

A little more that I saw on Twitter about the team doctor/Xenon thing. Crazy stuff!

https://twitter.com/LiftLoopLunge/status/1492904301810831360/photo/1

I have been a big admirer of Russian skating over the years, but this is blatant and ridiculous. Russia clearly has no business competing in any Olympics (or ISU Championship) until they repeatedly prove they aren't doping and playing within the rules. Clearly the BS half-measures from the IOC (no anthem, ROC, etc) have only emboldened the Russian corruption.

The entire situation makes me ill and I have doubts about the viability of this sport going forward if this goes unchecked.

 

[MacMadame]

Doesn't matter. Rule is broken so there should be consequences.

It was broken by a news outlet. The only consequence that can happen from that is that they don't get accredited for figure skating events for a while or ever.

It matters because it determines the length of suspension. As for Olympics admission, the results should've been available before Olympics, NOT after. I don't believe the excuse that was given for the delay.

The lab used was picked by RUSADA. The duty to follow up when the test results didn't come back before Euros was on RUSADA. The duty to not name Kamila to the Olympic team until the results came back was on RUSADA and ROC.

So what is your reasoning for why it wasn't just another thing impacted by covid but something more nefarious? Because the only thing I can think of is that at some point RUSADA knew or suspected that the test would come back negative and so didn't want it to come back until it was too late. Which means that they named Kamila to the team knowing this would blow up at some point. Which makes no sense.

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. i.e., the test results were delayed and RUSADA f'ed up by not following up.

 

[Karen-W]

If Kamila's suspension is reinstated, will Loena Hendrickx be awarded European's Bronze?

I would think there would be an investigation first

I don't see any reason for the ISU to keep the title vacant, so yes that should be what happens in that event. I'm also very curious to see if the ban only covers that event but not the Olympics-- of course, if the evidence (and the sample B, most likely) are sufficient.

It is going to depend on whether or not there is a ban or a slap on the wrist since she is a minor. Chances are, yes, if the provisional ban is reinstated, then RUSADA/ROC/RFSF will appeal the ban on Valieva's behalf. That appeal and investigation could take several months (look how long it took Jessica Calalang to be reinstated, and other athletes' appeals/investigations have taken 6-8 months also). Until then, it doesn't sound like the ISU is going to do anything - they've already stated they cannot make a decision regarding the TE results until after CAS makes a decision on the full merits of the case (the RUSADA/ROC/RFSF part of the appeal/investigation). I would expect the same unwillingness to make a decision regarding the European results (both small medals and final results) until that time. It's a real shame because it's denying all of the other athletes on Teams ROC, USA and JPN (and possibly also CAN) their medals at the Olympics.

 

[DELTA]

I have been a big admirer of Russian skating over the years, but this is blatant and ridiculous. Russia clearly has no business competing in any Olympics (or ISU Championship) until they repeatedly prove they aren't doping and playing within the rules. Clearly the BS half-measures from the IOC (no anthem, ROC, etc) have only emboldened the Russian corruption.

The entire situation makes me ill and I have doubts about the viability of this sport going forward if this goes unchecked.

Agree, but ban TUE first and put same scrutiny on every country that dominates the sport.

 

[MacMadame]

I don't see any reason for the ISU to keep the title vacant, so yes that should be what happens in that event. I'm also very curious to see if the ban only covers that event but not the Olympics-- of course, if the evidence (and the sample B, most likely) are sufficient.

Speaking of Sample B, what if Kamila never asks for it to be tested? I think procedurally that means that we assume it's positive. OTOH, socially, that means we'll be arguing forever whether or not it would come back positive.

 

[Bigbird]

Agree, but ban TUE first and put same scrutiny on every country that dominates the sport.

Nobody dominates the sport more than ROC and that's why they need to start there. Besides they are the ones that failed the doping test. It's like we all keep on forgetting. Nobody brought this on but Russia themselves. Ms. Valieva tested positive, no one else.

 

[Sylvia]

From Eteri Tutberidze's 2019 TV interview with Vladimir Posner on ch. Russia-1. (52 min) translated by the late Tinami Amori: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...w-with-v-posner-russia-1.105478/#post-5570346

P: Lately the Russian Sport is plagued with the doping issues. At the last WC in Japan, your pupil, the champion Alina Zagitova was detained for testing after her programmes..

T: yes, after SP and FS both..

P: … during one doping probe she was detained for 8 hours..

T: yes, after the FS..

P: … she was held there until 5 o’clock in the morning.. Immediately there were rumors, that it is something political… Interestingly, Ilya Averbuch said that this has nothing to do with politics, and no undercurrents. The fact that she was held till 5am is not a poor organization issue. It is normal and means she simply could not produce the required sample. There is no political or any other undercurrent in any of this possible. (to Eteri) Do you agree with him?

T: Absolutely agree. Because for a full sample, one needs to produce 100 mg. She was stressed, could not do it right away, and had to wait. Further more, to produce a sample quickly, an athlete should eat bunch of fruits, it’s sugar and drink lots of water. She could not risk doing it after the SP, because of the upcoming FS a day later, and this would mean extra weight. But why she could not do it after the FS, and why it took her even longer (edit. SP was 5 hrs, FS was 8).. well, I don’t know maybe because (it all feels uncomfortable)… you don’t even hold the jar yourself.. another person holds this jar (under the athlete)…

P:… are you kidding me?

T: yes, yes.. and one has to manage “to relax”..

P: wow, I did not know this….. the details you learn sometimes..

T: yes..

P: In January of this year, a 13-year old skater, Anastasiya Shabotova, I think you know her… During her live (IG) feed on social media, said that in order to skate well one must take the.. (interrupted)…

T: yes, take the right dope…

P: yes, to drink lots of “right kind of doping”.. well, also she mentioned that famous ice club “Kristalny”…

T: yes, yes aha.. that we all drink the right doping there..

P: .. and of course, the Federation proclaimed her words to be ‘nonsense and stupidity”, and later Shabotova herself admitted it was “stupidity” because she was upset about loosing (a medal). But now I wonder did she really mean it.. (did she say confess on her own initiative?)

T: maybe she did not? (laughs)

P: I think so too… perhaps the Federation put the pressure and made her say it.. At the same time, in the last two months, RUSADA test 15 ladies skaters…. So I have a question for you… these words, of this 13 year old girl, is there any bit of truth in them?

T: listen… It is too bad that this 13-year old girl, and she is not alone, as this maybe a trend with some portion of that generation, that in order to get high results one must take lots of “right doping”. I am sorry for her, that it is her formula for success… that she does not think that getting high results means coming on the ice training more.. That’s what came to mind when I read her comments.. Well if she thinks it works, good luck, hope she finds the right doping … but the “right doping” for her should be a beep on her butt from her coach and her mother..

P: (laughs), well ok… You do know that our tennis player, Maria Sharapova, was suspended for two years, for taking Meldonium, and confessed taking it herself. You said in the past, and I am quoting “that Meldoium does not have any doping qualities”..

T: it does not..

P: “they” felt we know something (special) and they don’t… Americans sent a letter to WADA, asked them to investigate, from the Russian side there was no actions/protests, so they went ahead and made it illegal. Pls give me some more details..

T: ok, look at this.. Meldonium is a substance.. Every national team has similar type of substance approved by WADA. We used Meldonium. This substance helps to recuperate, the heart…

P: did we ever send it for approval to WADA?

T: we had the substance, were using it. The Americans, and not only them, wrote a letter to WADA saying that they think it is doping. But they can think what they want… On the other had our Laboratories, once it happened, should have written a letter of Objection. To dispute the accusation, present the materials showing that it is not doping. That this substance does not help with “highest, strongest, fastest”, and only helps to recuperate the heart muscles.

P: I understand, only helps to recuperate… and our side did not (bother) to send such objections…

T: yes, they had a year and did not do it. When the time to object expired, it automatically became a banned substance and pronounced “doping”..

P: as in “silence, means agreement”?

T: no, after the year’s time expired, then they started moving and sent this letter…. But the deadline passed. I don’t know why this letter did not make it, maybe it was lost in the mail.. But I do know nobody bothered to send it…until it was too late. Meldonium automatically became “doping”. But I don’t understand why later some of our athletes were found to be using it. Because in September of that year, we all received a notice, that as of January 1st, this substance will be considered “doping”…

P: banned?

T: yes.. and also we were given the last date, when it can be utilized without leaving trace after January 1st.

P:… to get out of the system by that time..

T: yes, and why did some Federations, or groups of people, continued to use it after those dates? Maybe they did not receive the notice? I don’t know… But in principle, we were all notified, we all knew the exact dates “when to stop”, and to find a legal substitute. Because all athletes need some kind of vitamins, to help recuperate, from being tired…

 

[DELTA]

Nobody dominates the sport more than ROC and that's why they need to start there. Besides they are the ones that failed the doping test. It's like we all keep on forgetting. Nobody brought this on but Russia themselves. Ms. Valieva tested positive, no one else.

No opinion on TUE?

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

This is OT, but I just learned KV has a history of being bullied. And now she has to go through this.

Бывший тренер Валиевой рассказал, как ее подставили подруги по команде, спровоцировав драку

Игорь Лютиков, бывший тренер Камилы Валиевой, рассказал о том, как от него ушла российская фигуристка, будущая чемпионка России и Европы, а также олимпийская чемпионка Пекина в командном турнире.

www.kp.ru

Google translate was sadly unhelpful here. Should you feel so inclined, a quick explanation of the bullying would be most welcome. Thanks.

 

[thvu]

No opinion on TUE?

I’m pretty sure someone not giving an opinion answers your question sufficiently.

 

[skatingguy]

No opinion on TUE?

They're a necessary part of the system - look at what happened with Tiffany Zahorski last fall - and @taz'smum has mentioned that many of the medications given required a TUE - that it took a great deal of time & effort to get everything translated to English - that the TUE was granted.

 

[DreamSkates]

All he is saying is wait for the facts. The lack of substance is coming from angry fans and media who just love to spread controversy. Why is anyone not waiting for the results of sample B? Will those test results ever come out? Why did the lab send those results exactly after TE ended? C19 delayed it by 6-7 weeks is not a satisfactory answer to me. Everyone and everything should be investigated before drawing any conclusions.

By the time he tweeted, facts were already presented and an investigation was underway.

 

[DreamSkates]

Always blaming others ——- narcissism.

 

[Vash01]

By the time he tweeted, facts were already presented and an investigation was underway.

Start of an investigation does not give results. End of it does, after analysis of data, using logic.

 

[Sylvia]

NYT article by Tariq Panja:

Kamila Valieva’s arbitration hearing is over. Here’s what comes next. (Published 2022)

The hearing will determine if the Russian figure skater who failed a pre-Olympics doping test will be able to continue to compete at the Beijing Games.

www.nytimes.com

Excerpts:

None of the testimony was to focus directly on whether Valieva, 15, is guilty of taking a banned drug, traces of which turned up in a sample she submitted in December. Rather, the organizations were seeking to reinstate a provisional suspension that Rusada had imposed on Valieva on Tuesday and then lifted a day later.
Communicating largely through video links from outside China, legal teams for the parties made their arguments before the panel, which is led by a London-based American lawyer. Matthieu Reeb, the CAS general secretary, had said Valieva planned to provide testimony by video, but few other details were expected; CAS hearings normally take place under the strictest secrecy, and one involving accusations against a minor require the utmost care.

Yet while the hearing was taking place, several members of the news media were surprised to receive an email from an I.O.C. official that included a video of an interview with the head of the Russian Olympic Committee that was played during the hearing. In the clip, which was described to The New York Times by a person who had viewed it, the Russian official, Stanislav Pozdnyakov, slammed the handling of Valieva’s sample by the Russia antidoping agency’s Swedish testing partner.
Sharing the clip was extremely unusual; the I.O.C. and the Russian Olympic Committee are on opposing sides in the case, and the hearing was still underway at the time. The video outlining one aspect of Russia’s defense appeared to be the only one that the Olympic official shared with members of the news media.

There was also expected to be little discussion about how the banned heart medication, trimetazidine, ended up in Valieva’s system, or why it took more than six weeks for the results of a test submitted in December to be confirmed by the Stockholm lab charged with testing it.
Instead, the hearing was to focus on process and proportionality, with the arbitrators asked to weigh a largely philosophical argument pitting the damage of enforcing an immediate ban on a 15-year-old girl — and blocking her from the biggest competition of her life — against the potential damage to the integrity of the competition if she is allowed to compete.
As a minor, Valieva enjoys a different status from older athletes, meaning any punishment that may eventually be meted out is likely to be less severe than those typically issued for a similar failed test by an adult. But that is a conversation for another day, and for another hearing that is most likely months away.

 

[overedge]

Agree, but ban TUE first and put same scrutiny on every country that dominates the sport.

Banning TUEs would be unfair to athletes who have a medically verified condition and need to take a drug to manage it. Getting a TUE is a very rigorous process and requires a lot of documentation - it's pretty hard to get one without being able to prove that the drug is necessary and that it's not going to give the athlete a big advantage. Banning TUEs won't get rid of doping for performance reasons.

 

[overedge]

I assume the email mentioned in the article that @Sylvia quoted above came from an identifiable IOC official. That person should be immediately suspended and sent home for trying to unduly influence the outcome of Valieva's case.

My opinion of the IOC is already pretty low, but that an official thought this was OK to do is unbelievable. I didn't know that my opinion could get any worse, but it just did.

 

[Bigbird]

So, what Eteri is saying is: yes we dope. It's a means to an end, doping doesn't make them better skaters.

So the shady doctor is just there to ensure that these enhancers cannot be detected?

If they don't improve performance, why use it? They must think we're idiots. This is an barefaced insult to the sport.

 

[Bigbird]

I assume the email mentioned in the article that @Sylvia quoted above came from an identifiable IOC official. That person should be immediately suspended and sent home for trying to unduly influence the outcome of Valieva's case.

My opinion of the IOC is already pretty low, but that an official thought this was OK to do is unbelievable. I didn't know that my opinion could get any worse, but it just did.

You don't seem to understand. They need as they'd say in "The Help" insurance. We don't know the half of it.

They've known what they're going to do from the beginning. All is this is for optics.

 

[overedge]

You don't seem to understand. They need as they'd say in "The Help" insurance. We are dealing with Russia here. A number of these people are quaking in their boots. We don't know the half of it. If you believe this is a simple matter you have absolutely no clue.

You don't seem to understand what I was saying. What the official did was wrong. They should be suspended for doing it.

 

[DELTA]

So, what Eteri is saying is: yes we dope. It's a means to an end, doping doesn't make them better skaters.

So the shady doctor is just there to ensure that these enhancers cannot be detected?

If they don't improve performance, why use it? They must think we're idiots. This is an barefaced insult to the sport.

What exactly is your source?

 

[PRlady]

I assume the email mentioned in the article that @Sylvia quoted above came from an identifiable IOC official. That person should be immediately suspended and sent home for trying to unduly influence the outcome of Valieva's case.

My opinion of the IOC is already pretty low, but that an official thought this was OK to do is unbelievable. I didn't know that my opinion could get any worse, but it just did.

But it’s an odd clip to share. Who gains what from RUSADA yelling about the Swedish lab?

 

[trouble77]

Extract from the article.

"Did the banned drug trimetazidine, known as TMZ, make a difference? Could it have helped Valieva?

The heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said no.

“The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero,” Dr. Levine said"

What is trimetazidine? Would it have helped Kamila Valieva of Russia? (Published 2022)

News that the figure skater had tested positive for the banned substance raised questions that have come up in past doping scandals.

www.nytimes.com

About the unfair advance that a skater is supposed to have if they take TMZ:

1) What difference does it really make considering the fact that every skater, regardless of the hours invested in training, can hit or miss a competition because of "pressure and/or lack of concentration"?

2) What difference does it make considering the fact that every skater so far, has been able to skate an entire LP with all the required jumps?

3) What difference can it make if we take into account the fact that elite skaters from one country might still receive an unfair advantage because of free ice. For example, Katia Gordeeva mentioned this several times in her life that they (GG) had free ice and therefore they could train for longer hours.

4) I paraphrase this because I don't remember where I read it on the board, but it was something like "you don't dope until you are caught doping", does it mean that all athletes dope somehow, and it's all a matter of time until and bad luck until they are caught?

5) In Kamila's case, what are the chances that the lab screwed up or that Kamila's sample was contaminated somehow before it was tested? (I'm sure we all had issues where a blood test got lost for example).

6) if TMZ was not a banned drug and skaters could take it freely and benefit from it, would they all be able to jump quads and 3 Axels?

7) Can TMZ improve the talent of a skater?

 

[trouble77]

Delete

 

[Bigbird]

You don't seem to understand what I was saying. What the official did was wrong. They should be suspended for doing it.

How do we know who did it? It could have been a hack to jeapordize the validity of the meeting making the outcome void and buying more time for the ROC?

 

[Bigbird]

Extract from the article.

"Did the banned drug trimetazidine, known as TMZ, make a difference? Could it have helped Valieva?

The heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said no.

“The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero,” Dr. Levine said"

What is trimetazidine? Would it have helped Kamila Valieva of Russia? (Published 2022)

News that the figure skater had tested positive for the banned substance raised questions that have come up in past doping scandals.

www.nytimes.com

About the unfair advance that a skater is supposed to have if they take TMZ:

1) What difference does it really make considering the fact that every skater, regardless of the hours invested in training, can hit or miss a competition because of "pressure and/or lack of concentration"?

2) What difference does it make considering the fact that every skater so far, has been able to skate an entire LP with all the required jumps?

3) What difference can it make if we take into account the fact that elite skaters from one country might still receive an unfair advantage because of free ice. For example, Katia Gordeeva mentioned this several times in her life that they (GG) had free ice and therefore they could train for longer hours.

4) I paraphrase this because I don't remember where I read it on the board, but it was something like "you don't dope until you are caught doping", does it mean that all athletes dope somehow, and it's all a matter of time until and bad luck until they are caught?

5) In Kamila's case, what are the chances that the lab screwed up or that Kamila's sample was contaminated somehow before it was tested? (I'm sure we all had issues where a blood test got lost for example).

6) if TMZ was not a banned drug and skaters could take it freely and benefit from it, would they all be able to jump quads and 3 Axels?

7) Can TMZ improve the talent of a skater?

At the end of the day it's a banned substance so none of these issues matter. Play fair or go home.

 

[rink_mom]

WADA announced they are going to investigate the entire team

Winter Olympics: Kamila Valieva's entourage to be investigated by Wada

Scrutiny of those around Kamila Valieva increases after the World Anti-Doping Agency says it will investigate the adults working with the teenager.

www.bbc.com