Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[Ananas Astra]

A xenophobic person is someone who has a dislike or prejudice against people from other countries. That's the dictionary definition.

Xenophobia is, in fact, a very natural thing to humans. And I am not saying that everyone is racist.
Without education and experience, everyone is xenophobic, it's a very human feeling to have: the fear of something unknown/strange.
The more you know and understand about the world, the less xenophobic you are.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Okay, I'm really just baffled now. What is your concept of the race of Russian people?

It's like if someone said they hated Florida (that's common) and then I suddenly asked if they were racist because of it. It doesn't make sense. If someone hates the US for this or that, what race is it that they would be hating on by hating all of the USA? All races?

To quote the poster who responded to my comment with interpreting it as such.

Hatred of Russians and Russian skaters is causing some strange reads of common behaviors when it’s from them

Maybe I was defensive because my comments were not about hating Russians. I then asked a question which obviously some people feel uncomfortable about. I also used a strong word in response their use of a strong word. I apologise if I have made people feel uncomfortable with my question. But I was asking for the person who made this comment to explain their position (which they haven't). Maybe it was the wrong way to ask the person what they meant.

I don't have a concept of Russian people. However there have been some very enlightening posts from others who are explaining the backgrounds of a number of Russian skaters which I appreciate.

 

[caseyedwards]

I don’t believe it’s racist if it’s political

 

[Ananas Astra]

I don't have a concept of Russian people. However there have been some very enlightening posts from others who are explaining the backgrounds of a number of Russian skaters which I appreciate.

As with everything else, there are stereotypes of "typical Russian behavior" which I have seen quite a few times with Russian people and I don't like myself like the rudeness, conservative thinking and of course the horrible tastes in clothing and furniture. It's no coincidence that "Russians on social media" have become a meme, and it's a hilarious one I absolutely enjoy.

But just like that, there are stereotypes of every other nation. "The arrogant Frenchman with his baguette and wine", "the witty Brit with his tea who cannot cook to save his life" or "the fat American who is uneducated, has no culture and is eating burgers all the time".

Stereotypes don't come from nothing.

 

[MacMadame]

Hmmm Xenophobia is a fear. That word is also included in a definition of the word. I suppose it depends what dictionary you use.

It does not depend on which dictionary you use. Phobia does not mean fear and only fear. It means fear or aversion as in a strong dislike, i.e., hate.

You sound like those transphobes who say "I can't be transphobic -- I don't fear trans people."

I also used a strong word in response their use of a strong word.

You use a word that made no sense. Russian is not a race. People of many ethnicities are Russian. People are not "uncomfortable" that you used that word. They are perplexed.

 

[Vagabond]

I believe Irina Slutskaya is Jewish as well.

She has Jewish ancestry on her father's side.

Irina Slutskaya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That doesn't make her Jewish.

 

[Japanfan]

She has Jewish ancestry on her father's side.

Irina Slutskaya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That doesn't make her Jewish.

SFAIK Reform Judaism accepts people as Jewish if only the father is Jewish.

My brother, a Jew, had two kids with a non-Jewish women. His son identifies as Jewish, married a fully Jewish woman, had a Jewish wedding, celebrates the high holidays. His daughter, not so much.

 

[Sylvia]

Now Eteri wants an apology. This woman needs to go away:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1135230/valieva-coach-tutberidze-bach-apology

Oh, lord... This is... Rich. The InsidetheGames article includes translations from an interview Eteri gave to L'Equipe during Worlds. Does anyone have a link to the original article?

It's behind a paywall:

Eteri Tutberidze: « Je ne suis pas une sans-coeur »

Rencontre avec Eteri Tutberidze légendaire et impassible coach russe, figure centrale du patinage mondial et du sport de son pays, mais dont l'image est ternie depuis les Jeux de Pékin en 2022 et le scandale Valieva.

www.lequipe.fr

 

[Vagabond]

SFAIK Reform Judaism accepts people as Jewish if only the father is Jewish.

My brother, a Jew, had two kids with a non-Jewish women. His son identifies as Jewish, married a fully Jewish woman, had a Jewish wedding, celebrates the high holidays. His daughter, not so much.

If you read what is in my link, you would see that Slutskaya was raised Russian Orthodox and is a practicing member of that Church. Reform Judaism would not recognize her as Jewish.

(Also, for what it's worth, she used to cross herself when she took the ice before the start of her competitive programs.)

 

[Bigbird]

It's behind a paywall:

Eteri Tutberidze: « Je ne suis pas une sans-coeur »

Rencontre avec Eteri Tutberidze légendaire et impassible coach russe, figure centrale du patinage mondial et du sport de son pays, mais dont l'image est ternie depuis les Jeux de Pékin en 2022 et le scandale Valieva.

www.lequipe.fr

SHE wants an apology? With a bouquet of flowers too? You just can't make this stuff up.

 

[Nadya]

If you read what is in my link, you would see that Slutskaya was raised Russian Orthodox and is a practicing member of that Church. Reform Judaism would not recognize her as Jewish.

(Also, for what it's worth, she used to cross herself when she took the ice before the start of her competitive programs.)

I don't think Jewishness has anything to do with being raised in Judaism. Secular Jews are still Jews. As far as I know, you can't really stop being Jewish if you don't practice or if you practice something else.

 

[kwanfan1818]

As far as I know, you can't really stop being Jewish if you don't practice or if you practice something else.

That is not the case, although it used to be until the '60's, when it became more of an issue for Israeli citizenship, and rabbinical courts ruled that practicing another religion could mean that you stop being Jewish as far as religious leadership is concerned, at least as long as you were practicing that other religion.

I'm not sure whether you if you return to Judaism you have to convert back or take instruction, like Mormon friends had to when they went from non-observant to observant/church-going again.

 

[PRlady]

IIRC, Yagudin's father is (was?) Jewish as well.
There are quite a few Russian Jewish skaters like Staviski or Rodnina in addition to all those who decided to represent Israel at some point AND got the passport.

I never knew Staviski was part-Jewish. No wonder he’s so short. (Joking!)

She has Jewish ancestry on her father's side.

Irina Slutskaya - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That doesn't make her Jewish.

Currently it’s enough for Israeli citizenship although the Orthodox want to change that.

I don't think Jewishness has anything to do with being raised in Judaism. Secular Jews are still Jews. As far as I know, you can't really stop being Jewish if you don't practice or if you practice something else.

IF you publicly espouse another religion, most rabbis of all denominations will say you are no longer Jewish. A formal religion. The millions of Jews practicing yoga are ok.

That is not the case, although it used to be until the '60's, when it became more of an issue for Israeli citizenship, and rabbinical courts ruled that practicing another religion could mean that you stop being Jewish as far as religious leadership is concerned, at least as long as you were practicing that other religion.

I'm not sure whether you if you return to Judaism you have to convert back or take instruction, like Mormon friends had to when they went from non-observant to observant/church-going again.

AFAIK there’s no formal requirement for re-enlisting but I would imagine some sort of statement or oath might be required by the more observant.

 

[Sylvia]

Wagner/Rippon's latest podcast episode - Episode 3: Russia, Poppy Seeds, and Vitamins

Ashley and Adam re-live the last nine years of their lives as they discuss the recent news of a potential return to competition for Russian athletes.

The Runthrough: Episode 3: Russia, Poppy Seeds, and Vitamins on Apple Podcasts

Show The Runthrough, Ep Episode 3: Russia, Poppy Seeds, and Vitamins - Apr 4, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

Episode 3: Russia, Poppy Seeds, and Vitamins

Listen to this episode from The Runthrough on Spotify. Ashley and Adam re-live the last nine years of their lives as they discuss the recent news of a potential return to competition for Russian athletes.

open.spotify.com

 

[Sylvia]

By Sport24.ru's Anastasia Loginova (machine translated excerpt from the beginning) - "The third issue [podcast episode] of the American athletes was completely devoted to Russian figure skating - the Valieva case, the dominance of Russian women in the international arena, the current ban on our skaters. Below are the most interesting quotes from Wagner and Rippon.
According to them, the doping system began to work in 2014. After the victory of the Russian team in the team championship and
Adelina Sotnikova in the personal championship, a real line of top athletes began to claim the highest places."

Американским фигуристам не дает покоя Россия. Утверждают, что у нас системный допинг с 2014-го, и не верят Валиевой - 5 апреля 2023 - Sport24

Подкаст Эшли Вагнер и Адама Риппона.

sport24.ru

 

[ballettmaus]

Xenophobia is, in fact, a very natural thing to humans. And I am not saying that everyone is racist.
Without education and experience, everyone is xenophobic, it's a very human feeling to have: the fear of something unknown/strange.
The more you know and understand about the world, the less xenophobic you are.

The opposite is true, actually. Children imitate parents/guardians/adults, but, naturally, they're not afraid of someone who is different because they don't know what different is.
There are natural fears (that I believe come from survival instincts) but the fear you're referring to is one of the fears that is taught/learned.

What you're saying is very true for anyone who is older, though.

 

[clairecloutier]

By Sport24.ru's Anastasia Loginova (machine translated excerpt from the beginning) - "The third issue [podcast episode] of the American athletes was completely devoted to Russian figure skating - the Valieva case, the dominance of Russian women in the international arena, the current ban on our skaters. Below are the most interesting quotes from Wagner and Rippon.
According to them, the doping system began to work in 2014. After the victory of the Russian team in the team championship and
Adelina Sotnikova in the personal championship, a real line of top athletes began to claim the highest places."

Американским фигуристам не дает покоя Россия. Утверждают, что у нас системный допинг с 2014-го, и не верят Валиевой - 5 апреля 2023 - Sport24

Подкаст Эшли Вагнер и Адама Риппона.

sport24.ru

To me, these quotes from Ashley are the heart of the matter:

Wagner: “The only way to get athletes out of the system is to have no connection to the system. Since Russian figure skating is funded by the state, they would have to pay themselves and stop working in Russia. They could not cooperate with a coach who is funded by the country or has anything to do with Russia. They would be subjected to additional doping tests from WADA. In this case, perhaps they could be considered truly neutral athletes. But – if you have any connection to Russia, be it financial, physical or otherwise – no, you are not a neutral athlete.”

 

[caseyedwards]

She is being ridiculous. Neutral just means not competing for “Russia” and that’s it. A state is different from its government. Duh!! Russia is not Putins policies. Russia is affected by Putins policies. Russia existed before and will exist after. Sports funding by state is not personal to putin

 

[Sylvia]

Conference - PCC - Global Anti-Doping Research Grants for Scientists and Researchers

Conference An unforgettable experience with leaders in the anti-doping community April 18th - 19th, 2023 We were pleased to host this two-day conference program spanning a wide range of topics in anti-doping tailored to a variety of stakeholders, from lab directors to sports leagues. #PCC2023...

cleancompetition.org

Tuesday, April 18, 2023, 9:00 AM – 9:45 AM
Moderator: Mr. Ryan Murphy (Partnership for Clean Competition) Keynote Speakers: To be announced

https://twitter.com/x/status/1644467691963711488

ETA that on Monday I posted an article link profiling USFS' new CEO, Tracy Marek, here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-baker-as-usfs-ceo.109745/page-2#post-6420049

 

[Sylvia]

Photos & quotes from Chock/Bates' keynote session in NYC today:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648323857936269312

https://twitter.com/aMikeGreen/status/1648326107614068738

Great insights and stories from @evan_bates & @chockolate02 at #pcc2023. Their passion for sport really was on display while they were speaking. Many examples of facing challenges and emerging triumphant all while taking it in stride.

 

[Sylvia]

Article by Hajo Seppelt, Nick Butler and Lea Löffler (April 17):

Discussions about the return of Russian athletes: Russia and doping - the lingering problem

In the heated discussions about the reintegration of Russian athletes into world sport, the war takes centre stage. Doping issues hardly play a role - although huge mistrust remains.

www.sportschau.de

Bach's terse remarks during the press conference following the IOC Executive Board meeting in Lausanne at the end of March were striking. In the midst of heated discussions about the return of Russian athletes in the light of the brutal war of aggression in Ukraine, the perennial issue of state doping and its consequences has become a side note. And this despite the fact that the sporting superpower Russia has been - and still is - one huge nuisance for the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) in recent years.
"I have to say the confidence in the independence of the Russian anti-doping system remains very low," says WADA President Witold Banka. Four months after the formal end of the ban, WADA has still not declared the Russian anti-doping agency RUSADA compliant. The lack of this official status alone could prevent the unrestricted participation of Russian athletes in major sporting events. And this is completely separate to the sanctions that have been imposed (and are currently being softened again) because of the war of aggression.

The suspicion that Russia faces on doping issues is still widespread even among athletes. Fencer Lea Krüger could "definitely" imagine that "there was doping in Russia last year". In an interview with ARD, she adds: "There was too much reason for that in the past, that my trust in the Russian anti-doping system was weakened."
Krüger, a member of the executive committee of Athletes organization “Athleten Deutschland”, faces special challenges as a fencer. The world federation responsible for her, FIE, which is strongly under Russian influence, has already decided on the reintegration of Russian and Belarusian athletes. For Lea Krüger, the situation is so stressful that she ignores all doping doubts out of pure self-protection. Her statement makes it clear how problematic the return of Russian athletes to world sport is in view of the war and anti-doping issues: "If I go into a competition now and start adding concerns about doping, on top of the whole political situation - I think at some point you just become completely mad."

 

[MacMadame]

The lack of this official status alone could prevent the unrestricted participation of Russian athletes in major sporting events.

That part is actually a bit hopeful.

 

[Sylvia]

Tweeted by Christine Brennan today (May 3):
Another ridiculous delay in Valieva case. “It is unlikely that the hearing will take place prior to August 2023,” Court of Arbitration for Sport spokeswoman tells me. The Olympic skaters will be without medals for 18 months by that point.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653875519560065024

 

[Karen-W]

At this rate, the 2026 TE medals might be awarded before the 2022 ones.

 

[caseyedwards]

Only total hatred of Russians has prevented the only right solution of medals For Russians

 

[On My Own]

Only total hatred of Russians has prevented the only right solution of medals For Russians

They should give them Plushenko's platinum then, problem solved.

 

[caseyedwards]

They should give them Plushenko's platinum then, problem solved.

Not bad

 

[Karen-W]

Only total hatred of Russians has prevented the only right solution of medals For Russians

One cheater on the team usually results in the disqualification of the entire team in every other Olympic sport. The Russians deserve no medals if they had an athlete with a doping violation on their team.

 

[coppertop1]

One cheater on the team usually results in the disqualification of the entire team in every other Olympic sport. The Russians deserve no medals if they had an athlete with a doping violation on their team.

Russia shouldn't even been at the Olympics, with their state-run doping.

 

[caseyedwards]

One cheater on the team usually results in the disqualification of the entire team in every other Olympic sport. The Russians deserve no medals if they had an athlete with a doping violation on their team.

Valieva is a protected person. She can’t cheat she can only be the victim of cheaters so she can’t be disqualified