Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[Vagabond]

Do you consider Tutberidze almighty? I don’t.

Lower your sarcasm blockers.

 

[kwanfan1818]

You are omitting a tiny detail - when the Russians were taking meldonium, it was not banned. And talking about finding a replacement for meldonium suggest that she doesn’t want to use anything that is banned, otherwise why bother replacing the meldonium?

Because it became a red hot topic at the time and was under intense scrutiny, to the point that WADA mis-used a scientific study to determine how long it would stay in the body?

What is clear from her statement is that they thought they needed a substitute that worked the same way. And when you ask a bent doctor for a solution, there's a really good chance you'll get a bent solution: however much she could throw up her hands and say, "I expected a substitution that was legal," there is no plausible deniability when you look up his well-know rap sheet, which is like hiring Lance Armstrong as your training advisor.

 

[MacMadame]

Yes, better. And no, I am not kidding you. She missed one big competition. She never had so much hatred going her way, never had reputation damaged, regardless of what the outcome is…

Well, Jessica Calalang disagrees with you and her opinion about what her ordeal cost her is all that matters

Also, Kamila is a hero in Russia and no one on FSU has expressed any hatred towards her.

 

[becca]

I don’t know how Eteri can claim she had no idea when she works with a doctor with history of using illegal stuff

 

[hanca]

Well, Jessica Calalang disagrees with you and her opinion about what her ordeal cost her is all that matters

Also, Kamila is a hero in Russia and no one on FSU has expressed any hatred towards her.

You are joking, right? All those posters wishing that she would mess up… and then crying crocodile tears about poor 15 year old…

 

[kwanfan1818]

Someone other than Tutberidze supplied Valieva with the TMZ and Tutberidze did not know about it.

I don't know who thinks that Tutberidze supplied any skater directly with any substance. Nor that the doctor gave her details. She's expert at keeping a distance from the damage, whether it's Lipnitskaia's mother, Valieva's grandfather, or the team doctor.

 

[Sylvia]

NBC LA reporter Lolita Lopez visited Jessica Calalang at Great Park Ice after the Valieva story broke during the Olympics and posted this short interview on her IG: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CaFhqJLrD37/

Figure skater @jessicacalalang sits down with us to share her personal story of testing positive for a banned substance, facing suspension from competition and fighting to clear her name. How she feels about the case with the 15 year old Russian skater involved in a current investigation at the #winterolympics

 

[hanca]

I think @hanca is simply saying that the following can all be simultaneously true:

• Tutberidze employs abusive training methods
• Valieva ingested TMZ and is therefore guilty of doping
• Someone other than Tutberidze supplied Valieva with the TMZ and Tutberidze did not know about it.

Whether that's likely is debatable, but it is possible, and saying so is not defending Tuberidze's training methods, it's merely asserting that we don't know with anything close to a semblance of certainty that Tutberidze is behind Valieva's doping.

As for the doctor, was Tutberidze the one who hired him, or was he assigned to the team by someone higher up?

Unfortunately, we may never know the truth.

Thank you for this post. That’s exactly what I am saying. And it is not because I love Tutberidze, I am sure there is plenty of posts on this forum in which I have been critical towards her (and Tinami has been arguing with me and defending Tutberidze). But I really dislike just deciding that someone is guilty without having the facts. And at the moment we do not have the facts about how TMZ got into Valieva’s body and whether Tutberidze knew about it.

 

[Bulletsdad]

But does it walk like a duck? The fact that her method are abusive (overtraining, diet) does not necessarily mean that she also drugs skaters. And especially when they appeared unprepared for what happened. If Tutberidze was aware of the possibility of something like this happening, she would have a reasonable excuse ready. They didn’t have anything ready, and Tutberidze always plans for every detail… to me it seems pretty clear that it is not as posters here are hoping it to be. Repeating your indignation about it will not make it miraculously the truth.

The hubris of a narcissist does not allow for preparation. They never expect to be caught; they are just "too good" in their mind.

 

[hanca]

NBC LA reporter Lolita Lopez visited Jessica Calalang at Great Park Ice after the Valieva story broke during the Olympics and posted this short interview on her IG: [URLhttps://www.instagram.com/tv/CaFhqJLrD37/[/URL]

So she was banned in January for 8 months. So she missed one competition. Then she started the next season ok. How can someone seriously suggest that she would prefer to be splattered all over medial like Valieva was? Everyone deciding that she is guilty, without having the time to figure our how did the thing got into her body?

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

So she was banned in January for 8 months. So she missed one competition.

8 months means more than 1 competition and that competition you are referring to was Worlds. That's a huge one. I also remember a lot of speculation on why we weren't seeing them compete in Senior B's and the Grand Prix. They were cleared in time for Skate America to offer a host spot but not in enough time to get any other GP spots which they probably would have had.

 

[PRlady]

So she was banned in January for 8 months. So she missed one competition. Then she started the next season ok. How can someone seriously suggest that she would prefer to be splattered all over medial like Valieva was? Everyone deciding that she is guilty, without having the time to figure our how did the thing got into her body?

If you followed US pairs you would know that the suspension absolutely affected their training time and success. They were on a great trajectory that went splat and certainly affected their chances at an Olympic berth.

Meanwhile the New Yorker story I’m reading about the dire situation in Ukraine quotes Russia expert Masha Lipman:

“In Russia, the figure-skating competition at the Winter Olympics, in Beijing, seems to arouse more conversation than the conflict with Ukraine. “Maybe this is a matter of psychological self-preservation,” Lipman said. “You switch away from what might be a real war tomorrow to something that makes no sense whatsoever.”

 

[Sylvia]

So she was banned in January for 8 months. So she missed one competition.

Do not trivialize what Calalang & Johnson went through! Calalang's and Valieva's situations are NOT comparable.

If you followed US pairs you would know they the suspension absolutely affected their training time and success. They were on a great trajectory that went splat and certainly affected their chances at an Olympic berth.

THIS!

 

[hanca]

Do not trivialize what Calalang & Johnson went through! Calalang's and Valieva's situations are NOT comparable.

THIS!

Well, I listened to her interview, but I all I heard her was saying that she would have wanted to be treated like Valieva - be allowed to skate at the worlds she missed. Interestingly, she didn’t say she would consider having her name smeared all over media, as long as she would have been allowed to skate. On one side she is saying how Valieva is treated better, and yet it seems she would have wanted the anonymity and be able to skate. Valieva got one advantage, Calalang got another advantage. It seems that neither of them had it all…

 

[skatingguy]

Calalang/Johnson lost all their USFS funding for the period that she was suspended, which included the crucial time during the summer. They missed Worlds, Champs Camp, & any summer or early fall competitions they might have done in the lead up the Olympic season. We'll never know what impact that had on their ability to make the US Olympic team.

Valieva suffered a traumatic experience at the Olympics, and that is entirely the fault of the adults in control of her career. She had a positive test for a banned substance, and should not have been in competition, and if the adults around her cared at all they would have brought her home immediately. They didn't because she's a disposable cog in the wheel of a sports system that cares about winning at all costs.

 

[Karen-W]

Well, I listened to her interview, but I all I heard her was saying that she would have wanted to be treated like Valieva - be allowed to skate at the worlds she missed. Interestingly, she didn’t say she would consider having her name smeared all over media, as long as she would have been allowed to skate. On one side she is saying how Valieva is treated better, and yet it seems she would have wanted the anonymity and be able to skate. Valieva got one advantage, Calalang got another advantage. It seems that neither of them had it all…

Valieva would have had the same advantage Calalang had as far as anonymity and her name not being splashed all over the media had RUSADA been doing its job. Valieva would have had the same advantage had the RUSSIAN MEDIA not spilled her name.

The two situations are not anywhere near comparable and it boggles my mind that you're trying to draw any parallels between them. It also boggles my mind that you're trying to make the situations comparable when her own country's doping agency and her own country's media clearly don't give two shits about Valieva.

 

[PRlady]

Calalang’s “advantage” was that no one knew what happened to her until she was cleared. Had RUSADA done its job and prioritized Valieva’s test and/or had Russian media not leaked her identity, Valieva woujd have gotten the same treatment and probably not even gone to Beijing.

Very few athletes are as much gold medal favorites as Valieva was, that also contributed to the furor.

ETA: I see Karen and I had the same points! But @hanca is not Russian.

 

[skatingguy]

Very few athletes are as much gold medal favorites as Valieva was, that also contributed to the furor.

In one of the premiere events of the games to boot.

It also boggles my mind that you're trying to make the situations comparable when your country's doping agency and your country's media clearly don't give two shits about Valieva.

I think they live in the UK.

 

[Karen-W]

In one of the premiere events of the games to boot.

I think they live in the UK.

thanks! I edited it to make it clearer that Valieva's own country's doping agency and media don't care about her.

 

[MacMadame]

Calalang’s “advantage” was that no one knew what happened to her

But people speculated like crazy.

You are joking, right? All those posters wishing that she would mess up… and then crying crocodile tears about poor 15 year old…

For someone who likes to hold yourself up as the objective one who doesn't judge until all the evidence is in, you sure are willing to decide what people were really thinking and feeling.

 

[karmena]

To be consumed with soviet spirit does not require to be Russian. That malady touched many people whom Russia occupied during soviet time and they still cannot recover or see clearly.

 

[Trillian]

But I really dislike just deciding that someone is guilty without having the facts. And the moment we do not have the facts about how TMZ got into Valieva’s body and whether Tutberidze knew about it.

If a child has a banned and potentially harmful substance in her system that she couldn’t have obtained on her own, there is probably some form of abuse involved. It’s not unreasonable to think that her coach, who has a documented history of abusing children and employs someone with a history of dealing in banned substances, likely had some involvement. You may be waiting for someone to publish Eteri’s diary in which she confesses to everything, but there are already known facts in this situation and you’re choosing to ignore them.

 

[once_upon]

The hubris of a narcissist does not allow for preparation. They never expect to be caught; they are just "too good" in their mind.

I suspect the "protected minor" status was going to be part of the plan. As in - no one will find out because protected status of a 15 year old and if they do the Russian Federation did a suspension for what 9-10 days, so it's been dealt with defense.

I'm suspect of the grandfather story in a number of ways. First grandfather would need to be on this drug, and long enough for Kamila to a) know what it was/did and why it was considered a banned substance, b) grandfather would have known # of pills in bottle and questioned why he was running out sooner than he should c) don't know enough about how Russian pharmacies dispense meds but someone would have had to say, you are taking more than prescribed dose and possibly refuse to refill, d) Kamila would need to know enough pharmacology/renal function knowledge to know how and when to taper to avoid detection - that's a lot of indepth research for a 15 year old who spends 12 or more hours in training and basic education.

For the parent or grandparent to be the ones administratoring the med, they would need some knowledge of pharmaceutical and kidney functions to calculate when tapering needs to happen. I dont know enough about the Russian society/caste system but imagine that if you had that expertise you might be pretty well off on your own.

If the amount of TMZ found in samples is indeed "minuscle" and Kamila or her family were doping outside of Sambo-70 without some pharmacology and medical information, it would have to been sheer luck to do get to miniscle dose.

Someone with knowledge of how drugs are absorbed, what half life to expect, how it is excreted, and renal function studies would be needed. I dont see a 15 year old being able to pull that off. I dont see evidence that her parents/grandparents could pull that off.

I dont see the Russian Federation investigating too seriously, and i can fully believehow they or Eteri camp would develop a quickly put together plan and hope it would garner sympathy for Kamila and grandfather because they proposed an accidental ingestion excuse.

but I guess anything is possible. Even the existence of unicorns.

 

[canbelto]

You are joking, right? All those posters wishing that she would mess up… and then crying crocodile tears about poor 15 year old…

There's assholes everywhere. But overall ppl are very compassionate towards her. They might have thought she should have been suspended but they felt bad for her on a human level.

 

[once_upon]

I was outraged that she was allowed to skate and did say personal/camp responsibly needs to be acknowledged and it would be prudent to be DQed or pulled from competition, but never did I think she should fall or crumble.

I think she got caught in a bad situation and got zero help from Eteri and camp.

 

[Maximillian]

The hubris of a narcissist does not allow for preparation. They never expect to be caught; they are just "too good" in their mind.

I don't like Eteri, but may I ask if you are a psychologist/psychiatrist, and if so, have you done an evaluation on Eteri? If not, can you please cease with the baloney 'narcissism' diagnosis. Thank you.

 

[KaoriFan]

If age is the factor, yes. But if a failed drug test is, then the logic is different. As for 15 years olds like Michelle, under 6.0, the judges had a way of holding skaters back on the second mark until they showed a "mature" presentation. That is why Michelle, at age 14, wasn't on the podium at Worlds 1995 after two clean skates, and why Frank Carroll recommended make-up and a more grown-up look for her in terms of costume and programs in 1996.

In the old days, college aged lady would be in her prime, high school girl more like challenger. Anything younger than that would be developmental. Anything older really past their expiration date. Too much emphasis now on emaciated and abused 13-15 year old girls, I really don't want to see this beautiful sport turn into gymnastics.

Age limit may only partially solve the problem, though. I would still worry that girls will just stay on puberty blockers longer, causing even more harm until they are 18+. There really needs to be emphasis on changing the scoring incentives to value more mature presentation.

This is a sport where some of the winners won the right way, but many push themselves too far and try to win the wrong way. Not only Eteri girls doping and being forced to sleep in garbage cans, eating only diet supplement pills, no food ... Sonja Henie even slept with Hitler to win OGM for crying out loud!

 

[skatfan]

So she was banned in January for 8 months. So she missed one competition. Then she started the next season ok. How can someone seriously suggest that she would prefer to be splattered all over medial like Valieva was? Everyone deciding that she is guilty, without having the time to figure our how did the thing got into her body?

The way for Valieva to not be splattered over the media was to withdraw from the Olympics when she was notified that her test was positive and submit to the process that both WADA and the IOC said was appropriate: to miss “one competition” to use your term. She and RUSADA fought the battle which made everything public. No violin music for her team here.

 

[Bulletsdad]

I don't like Eteri, but may I ask if you are a psychologist/psychiatrist, and if so, have you done an evaluation on Eteri? If not, can you please cease with the baloney 'narcissism' diagnosis. Thank you.

I don't like Eteri, but may I ask if you are a psychologist/psychiatrist, and if so, have you done an evaluation on Eteri? If not, can you please cease with the baloney 'narcissism' diagnosis. Thank you.

Narcissism: Symptoms and Signs

What is a narcissist, and how do you recognize one? Learn the signs of narcissistic personality disorder and what to do if you’re dealing with a narcissist.

www.webmd.com

Yep, "Grandiose Narcissist."
After her display in the free skate, Eteri does indeed appear to be a narcissist. This is a skating board, not a court of law. Occam's Razor is enough to make an observation.

 

[DreamSkates]

I don’t know how Eteri can claim she had no idea when she works with a doctor with history of using illegal stuff

It is possible that, since Valieva alleged her grandfather takes the banned drug for his heart, that the grandfather and/or mother gave her the drug. Maybe the coach didn't know and didn't give it to her.