Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[canbelto]

I don't care if Kamila "knew" what she was taking. She's a 15 year old kid and in that kind of system you do whatever your coach tells you to do.
TMZ isn't a drug a 15 year old is going to find and be like "hey, lemme try this." If it was weed, painkillers, muscle relaxants ... yeah. I could see it. But TMZ? No. An adult in her life gave that to her.

 

[Rob]

Here's the IOC's "medal reallocation process". https://olympics.com/athlete365/wha...llocation/olympic-medal-reallocation-process/

What does this sentence mean? "A reallocated medal from a Games of the Olympiad can only be awarded at the Games of the Olympiad and likewise for the Olympic Winter Games." Do they need to wait for the next Winter Games? Or any Games of the Olympiad?

 

[hanca]

I find it hard to believe that there would be such an unprofessional approach. The coach not knowing what the skater is doing and the skater with this grandpa story. Also taking into account the Russian "this is not doping, it is protecting the skaters" thinking. So if Tutberidze and her team didn't drug her, they were really unprofessional letting all this happen.

As Zhulin said, sometimes it just stays in your organism a long time.

That’s quite ridiculous thing to say. The coach may be with Valieva for some ten or 12 hours per day, but there is still 12-14 hours per day left. If parents may not know that their teenage daughter got pregnant (and they live with her) or if a woman doesn’t know that she has a cheating husband (and she lives with him), why would you expect that it is unreasonable that coach may not know what their skaters do the remaining 12-14 hours per day when she is not with them?

You are making assumptions, someone else reads it, adds to it their assumptions…and yet all we KNOW is that Valieva had drug in her and we DO NOT KNOW how it got there. But let’s burn the witch (Tutberidze)!

 

[hanca]

Yes. And at this point every single adult who’s still hell-bent on making excuses for this woman is complicit in allowing her to continue abusing children.

No, I am not making excuses for her training methods, but at the same time, your ‘case’ against her is based on lots of assumptions. Until we know for sure, you are just following your own intersts.

 

[allezfred]

No, I am not making excuses for her training methods, but

You are.

 

[On My Own]

But does it walk like a duck? The fact that her method are abusive (overtraining, diet) does not necessarily mean that she also drugs skaters. And especially when they appeared unprepared for what happened. If Tutberidze was aware of the possibility of something like this happening, she would have a reasonable excuse ready. They didn’t have anything ready, and Tutberidze always plans for every detail… to me it seems pretty clear that it is not as posters here are hoping it to be. Repeating your indignation about it will not make it miraculously the truth.

Yes, you're right. Probably, they got so busy with "laughing" and "joking" about Asian skating, that they forgot to give Valieva the correct medicine at Russian Nationals, and instead went to her grandfather's house to find his heart medication to accidentally give to Valieva. It makes perfect sense, since we know the Russian doping scheme is just a "xenophobic" theory.

 

[hanca]

You are.

No, I am not. I want people to be found guilty when ther are really guilty, not when certain group of people decided they are. When US skater had positive drug test, I don’t remember seeing Russian posters here deciding that she is guilty before she had a chance to prove anything. And at the end she did manage to prove it. I want to give team Tutberidze the same opportunity. Whoever is guilty deserves to be punished, but I don’t believe in punishing before people had opportunity to be heard. Otherwise, according to your approach, Calalang is a doper! (Who would care that later she proved she wasn’t?)

 

[hanca]

Yes, you're right. Probably, they got so busy with "laughing" and "joking" about Asian skating, that they forgot to give Valieva the correct medicine at Russian Nationals, and instead went to her grandfather's house to find his heart medication to accidentally give to Valieva. It makes perfect sense, since we know the Russian doping scheme is just a "xenophobic" theory.

No, I don’t want any f***ing excuse. I want the truth. But truth that is not based on people’s assumptions.

 

[allezfred]

When US skater had positive drug test, I don’t remember seeing Russian posters here deciding that she is guilty before she had a chance to prove anything.

Well, your memory is right because no one knew about it until it was all over and Calalang had proved how the positive test came about.

 

[euterpe]

Well, your memory is right because no one knew about it until it was all over and Calalang had proved how the positive test came about.

And Calalang was barred from competing during the period when she was trying to prove she wasn't doping.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I have to say I am a little bemused that the potential doping part of the Eteri abuse situation is where some people draw the line and will/will not condemn her, and not the verified and chronicled starvation and emotional abuse (and physical as well if she's forcing skaters to train hard while injured).

 

[hanca]

Well, your memory is right because no one knew about it until it was all over and Calalang had proved how the positive test came about.

That’s my point. If it leaked, she would have been in similar situation, her reputation damaged, and yet she was innocent. But that seems to be very difficult concept for you to understand.

 

[hanca]

I have to say I am a little bemused that the potential doping part of the Eteri abuse situation is where some people draw the line and will/will not condemn her, and not the verified and chronicled starvation and emotional abuse (and physical as well if she's forcing skaters to train hard while injured).

Yes, I am condemning Tutberidze for the same issues, but not the drugs, because at the moment, that’s all based on assumptions. The fact that she is doing some awful things doesn’t necessarily mean that she is doing the drugs (or even knows about them). If she did, she would have better excuse ready.

 

[Mayra]

No, I don’t want any f***ing excuse. I want the truth. But truth that is not based on people’s assumptions.

Why do I have the sudden urge to insert the Jack Nicholson in A few Good Men gif here?

 

[allezfred]

That’s my point. If it leaked, she would have been in similar situation, her reputation damaged, and yet she was innocent. But that seems to be very difficult concept for you to understand.

Innocent until proven guilty is not a concept that applies to anti-doping cases. The burden of proof of why a substance has been found in your body lies with the athlete. Valieva and her team knew this when they signed up to compete internationally.

 

[Cachoo]

Innocent until proven guilty is not a concept that applies to anti-doping cases. The burden of proof of why a substance has been found in your body lies with the athlete. Valieva and her team knew this when they signed up to compete internationally.

I still think we should do the hair test for international competitions and also unscheduled surprise visits all over the world. I think that would have made the state sponsored cheating…and cheating in general more difficult. I never thought we would be talking about this because of a test to a figure skater. Dark days for the sport…

 

[MacMadame]

That’s quite ridiculous thing to say. The coach may be with Valieva for some ten or 12 hours per day, but there is still 12-14 hours per day left.

So the kids are doping in their sleep?

It's more like 4-6 hours some of which is spent doing things that would preclude doping like eating dinner with their family or doing other activities under the watchful eye of their parents.

If parents may not know that their teenage daughter got pregnant (and they live with her) or if a woman doesn’t know that she has a cheating husband (and she lives with him), why would you expect that it is unreasonable that coach may not know what their skaters do the remaining 12-14 hours per day when she is not with them?

These examples are false analogies. A teenage daughter is way from their parents much more than Eteri's skaters are away from her and is actually a lot less controlled by their parents to boot. A cheating spouse is also away from home quite a bit as is the spouse being cheated on.

You are grasping at straws.

You are making assumptions, someone else reads it, adds to it their assumptions…and yet all we KNOW is that Valieva had drug in her and we DO NOT KNOW how it got there. But let’s burn the witch (Tutberidze)!

I didn't realize that if posted my opinion on a skating board Tutbridze would catch on fire! Or that us posting our opinions would determine the resolution of Kamila's case.

Yes, I am condemning Tutberidze for the same issues, but not the drugs, because at the moment, that’s all based on assumptions.

It's based on the fact that one of her skaters had a banned substance in her pee and that Eteri has said that taking meldonium is not doping and that her skaters have been seen at competitions ingesting vitamins and other substances that their team doctor told them to take.

I still think we should do the hair test for international competitions and also unscheduled surprise visits all over the world.

There are already unscheduled visits, btw.

 

[hanca]

Innocent until proven guilty is not a concept that applies to anti-doping cases. The burden of proof of why a substance has been found in your body lies with the athlete. Valieva and her team knew this when they signed up to compete internationally.

So did Calalang and yet she was found in drugs in her urine. But she was treated better that she could keep it quiet until she had time to prove her innocence.

 

[Karen-W]

So did Calalang and yet she was found in drugs in her urine. But she was treated better that she could keep it quiet until she had time to prove her innocence.

Again, whose fault is that? It's certainly not the media's fault (not even the Russian media though they're the ones who broke her identity). Try RUSADA for not flagging her RusNats test as an expedited one. Try Team Eteri for not checking on the status of that test when it wasn't back within the typical 3-week turnaround. It all could have been kept quiet had those people been doing their jobs.

 

[hanca]

So the kids are doping in their sleep?

It's more like 4-6 hours some of which is spent doing things that would preclude doping like eating dinner with their family or doing other activities under the watchful eye of their parents.

Yes, I am sure Valieva spends 4-6 hours with her parents eating, and then she goes straight to bed.

These examples are false analogies. A teenage daughter is way from their parents much more than Eteri's skaters are away from her and is actually a lot less controlled by their parents to boot. A cheating spouse is also away from home quite a bit as is the spouse being cheated on.

You are grasping at straws.

It seems to me that you are grasping at straw. How long does it take to take drug? A minute?
How long would it take to order them online? Two minutes? Oh wait, she didn’t even have to order it online, it seems they conveniently had it at home…

I didn't realize that if posted my opinion on a skating board Tutbridze would catch on fire! Or that us posting our opinions would determine the resolution of Kamila's case.


It's based on the fact that one of her skaters had a banned substance in her pee and that Eteri has said that taking meldonium is not doping and that her skaters have been seen at competitions ingesting vitamins and other substances that their team doctor told them to take.

Yes, so that proves that she ingested drug. It still doesn’t prove how did it get into her. So it seems that you are grasping at straws.

There are already unscheduled visits, btw.

 

[Vagabond]

Yes, I am condemning Tutberidze for the same issues, but not the drugs, because at the moment, that’s all based on assumptions.

Either you believe that is true or you don't. And if you believe that it is true, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

 

[hanca]

Either you believe that is true or you don't. And if you believe that it is true, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

No, of course I don’t believe in grandad’s cup. But exactly that is one of the reason why I don’t think Tutberidze is involved. Because she would have much better excuse ready, if she had know about it in advance. Grandad’s cup seems like something that someone came up in a very short time, without any planning.

 

[Vagabond]

No, of course I don’t believe in grandad’s cup. But exactly that is one of the reason why I don’t think Tutberidze is involved. Because she would have much better excuse ready, if she had know about it in advance. Grandad’s cup seems like something that someone came up in a very short time, without any planning.

Tutberidze didn't come up with the excuse. Valieva's mother did. It was she who testified at the hearing; Tutberidze did not.

 

[Karen-W]

Tutberidze didn't come up with the excuse. Valieva's mother did.

To be fair, we don't know who came up with the excuse. All we know is that Valieva's mother offered it as a possible reason during the hearing, complete with grandpa holding up a pill bottle in a car (I think that's right) during the video testimony. I think it's entirely possible that the Sambo-70 folks back in Moscow helped cook up the ridiculous excuse as they were all scrambling to get out of the situation with as little damage to the school/coaching team as possible.

 

[MacMadame]

So did Calalang and yet she was found in drugs in her urine. But she was treated better that she could keep it quiet until she had time to prove her innocence.

Calalang was treated BETTER? Are you ****ing kidding me? They had to withdraw from Worlds! They couldn't do any competitions for months. They had to give money back to USFS. Money they needed to pay for their training.

Yes, you are the one grasping at straws. You are twisting yourself into a pretzel to come up with an alternate reality where all the other skaters who were guilty until proven innocent had a better deal than someone who was allowed to compete at the Olympics even though they had failed a doping test.

No, of course I don’t believe in grandad’s cup. But exactly that is one of the reason why I don’t think Tutberidze is involved. Because she would have much better excuse ready, if she had know about it in advance.

I guess the Almighty Eteri doesn't make mistakes then.

 

[Karen-W]

I guess the Almighty Eteri doesn't make mistakes then.

Nah, just the anesthesiologist, .

 

[hanca]

Calalang was treated BETTER? Are you ****ing kidding me? They had to withdraw from Worlds! They couldn't do any competitions for months. They had to give money back to USFS. Money they needed to pay for their training.

Yes, you are the one grasping at straws. You are twisting yourself into a pretzel to come up with an alternate reality where all the other skaters who were guilty until proven innocent had a better deal than someone who was allowed to compete at the Olympics even though they had failed a doping test.

Yes, better. And no, I am not kidding you. She missed one big competition. She never had so much hatred going her way, never had reputation damaged, regardless of what the outcome is…

I guess the Almighty Eteri doesn't make mistakes then.

Do you consider Tutberidze almighty? I don’t.

 

[kwanfan1818]

But does it walk like a duck? Th

The already under investigation team anesthesiologist and her public statements about needing to find a replacement for meldonium walk like a duck.

 

[hanca]

The already under investigation team anesthesiologist and her public statements about needing to find a replacement for meldonium walk like a duck.

You are omitting a tiny detail - when the Russians were taking meldonium, it was not banned. And talking about finding a replacement for meldonium suggest that she doesn’t want to use anything that is banned, otherwise why bother replacing the meldonium?

 

[BittyBug]

I think @hanca is simply saying that the following can all be simultaneously true:

• Tutberidze employs abusive training methods
• Valieva ingested TMZ and is therefore guilty of doping
• Someone other than Tutberidze supplied Valieva with the TMZ and Tutberidze did not know about it.

Whether that's likely is debatable, but it is possible, and saying so is not defending Tuberidze's training methods, it's merely asserting that we don't know with anything close to a semblance of certainty that Tutberidze is behind Valieva's doping.

As for the doctor, was Tutberidze the one who hired him, or was he assigned to the team by someone higher up?

Unfortunately, we may never know the truth.