Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[angi]

They already decided that to protect her because she was a minor. Once that decision is made, hand out the medals and go through with the ceremony. What's a few bucks to China? That country already lost a ton of money because there is no attendance. Sure reasonable minds could figure out that the longer they delay the ceremony, the harder it would be to keep her identity under wraps.

I don't get your logic. Do you think it would have made sense for them to hold a medal ceremony even when they know they have a legal situation preventing them from doing so? If they would have held the medal ceremony knowing they have a doping scandal on their hands and it became known that they didn't disclose it the scandal would have been huge and the damage to the integrity of the sport would have been even bigger than it already is.
Protecting Valieva was important, but you do not protect a victim and victimize others in the process. I would argue that the way events unfolded did exactly that, but to hold a fake medal ceremony would have victimized every single American and Japanese skater who would have been forced to unknowingly participate in that farce.

 

[Allskate]

Michelle Kwan didn't have an entire state-sponsored training system behind her, with expectations that her placement would reflect well on the international reputation of the country. IMO Kwan also wasn't overmarked in previous years and then marked more reasonably at that particular competition.

Michelle had different kinds of stresses on her. The media frenzy leading up to the Olympics was absolutely insane. And she did have pressures of a different sort. Fortunately, Nathan Chen does not have to answer to the state or represent the state. But, there have been so many expectations of him. Johnny talked last week about how the corporate folks were contacting him and freaking out when Nathan lost at Skate America. He had immense pressure on him this time and last time.

And let's be real. Trusova wasn't pissed off that she failed to get a gold for her country. Russia got gold. Trusova was upset that she herself did not get gold and that was what she was crying and yelling about. There are limits to how much sympathy and understanding I am willing to give Russian girls because of the state and their system. She is 17, not 5.

 

[Xela M]

Michelle had different kinds of stresses on her. The media frenzy leading up to the Olympics was absolutely insane. And she did have pressures of a different sort. Fortunately, Nathan Chen does not have to answer to the state or represent the state. But, there have been so many expectations of him. Johnny talked last week about how the corporate folks were contacting him and freaking out when Nathan lost at Skate America. He had immense pressure on him this time and last time.

And let's be real. Trusova wasn't pissed off that she failed to get a gold for her country. Russia got gold. Trusova was upset that she herself did not get gold and that was what she was crying and yelling about. There are limits to how much sympathy and understanding I am willing to give Russian girls because of the state and their system. She is 17, not 5.

Absolutely this. And there was no pressure on Trusova to win Gold at all. She was never the favourite to win. Her and Anna were deciding Silver/Bronze between them with Kamilla the clear chosen one for the OGM. Trusova's Silver was a total bonus to the Bronze she should have expected. Plus her SP placement was a complete joke. She should have thanked her lucky stars no one questioned that

 

[Karina1974]

A teenaged Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, or Michelle Kwan would have gritted her teeth off camera for two seconds at most and then gone into the interview to say with a smile, "She skated better than I did today."

Peggy's mother would have put Peggy over her knee if she ever threw a tantrum.

Janet would have prayed all night about it (and did according to her autobiography).

We all know Michelle's approach. I think Trusova should write at least 500 times "I didn't lose the gold. I WON the silver."

 

[Tavi]

No, Bach and the IOC did NOT create this situation. RUSADA created this situation by not expediting her test results from Russian Nats. Period. Everything else follows on that. Her status as a 'protected person' would have been preserved had RUSADA done its job. Her status as a 'protected person' would have been preserved had RUSADA not lifted, incorrectly per WADA, their provisional suspension. Her status as a 'protected person' would have been preserved had the RUSSIAN MEDIA not revealed her identity to the public.

I'm all for piling on Bach's IOC as much as the next person but the fault here has very little to do with the IOC and everything to do with the RUSSIAN actors in this tragedy not caring about her, at multiple points along the way.

I also question why Team Tutberidze didn’t follow up with Rusada to find out where the results were. After all, they must have known she was tested, and they had to know the test results could be an issue for their star skater, so why didn’t they check up on it? It would be like getting to the airport for your international flight, being denied because you didn’t have your passport, and complaining that the passport agency took too long to process and return the renewal. At a certain point, we all need to take personal responsibility for meeting legal requirements. In this case I don’t think Kamila as a minor should have been responsible. I do think her coaching team should have made sure she had that test result. To the extent they didn’t, I have to wonder why.

 

[overedge]

Someone doesn't have to win gold to reflect favorably on their country. Sorry, but I can't agree that Kwan's and Trusova's situations are comparable. And although Trusova could have behaved differently, especially on the panda podium, I rather admire her for being brave enough to be publicly and openly angry at a corrupt system. Russians have disappeared or mysteriously died for much less obvious resistance.

 

[tony]

Someone doesn't have to win gold to reflect favorably on their country. Sorry, but I can't agree that Kwan's and Trusova's situations are comparable. And although Trusova could have behaved differently, especially on the panda podium, I rather admire her for being brave enough to be publicly and openly angry at a corrupt system. Russians have disappeared or mysteriously died for much less obvious resistance.

She's mad that her jumps didn't get her gold (by default). The end of the sentence. Not because of anything else going on. So why are you trying to pull in other suggestions when she's given us repeated facts that she wanted the gold medal and thinks her 5 quads should've done it? After the competition, during the press conference following the competition, following the medal ceremony, what else do people need?

 

[Nadya]

True but unfortunately there is no proof of this Sasha and Anna have passed all their tests and were apparently given blood tests too.

Even if two years from now they text positive their Olympic medals aren’t up for grabs

Why is it unfortunate? You mean too bad they tested clean? Like, you would prefer it if they didn't?

 

[Nadya]

Michelle had different kinds of stresses on her. The media frenzy leading up to the Olympics was absolutely insane. And she did have pressures of a different sort. Fortunately, Nathan Chen does not have to answer to the state or represent the state. But, there have been so many expectations of him. Johnny talked last week about how the corporate folks were contacting him and freaking out when Nathan lost at Skate America. He had immense pressure on him this time and last time.

And let's be real. Trusova wasn't pissed off that she failed to get a gold for her country. Russia got gold. Trusova was upset that she herself did not get gold and that was what she was crying and yelling about. There are limits to how much sympathy and understanding I am willing to give Russian girls because of the state and their system. She is 17, not 5.

He absolutely does represent the state because there is no country called "Nathan Chen".

I don't quite understand why reasonable people are so eager to spin sinister stories about Trusova's future, all the way to her getting grabbed and ending in a gulag for god knows what (crimes against hair?). I've read that and worse, thankfully not here. She was quite clear about why she cried. Poor sportsmanship, sure, but bad sports exist. Whatever.

 

[Nadya]

I also question why Team Tutberidze didn’t follow up with Rusada to find out where the results were. After all, they must have known she was tested, and they had to know the test results could be an issue for their star skater, so why didn’t they check up on it? It would be like getting to the airport for your international flight, being denied because you didn’t have your passport, and complaining that the passport agency took too long to process and return the renewal. At a certain point, we all need to take personal responsibility for meeting legal requirements. In this case I don’t think Kamila as a minor should have been responsible. I do think her coaching team should have made sure she had that test result. To the extent they didn’t, I have to wonder why.

I agree with that, it seems sloppy and utterly uncharacteristic of that outfit.

 

[Nadya]

That pretty much applies to all of @Nadya ’s points and arguments.

Your approval is exactly what I had in mind when I woke up this morning.

 

[escaflowne9282]

I'm sorry, with all due respect to Michelle Kwan, if Trusova had said " I didn't lose gold , I won silver" I honestly think I would have chucked my dinner.

While Trusova certainly could have handled it better, not everyone needs to be such a goody two shoes .

Also, 1998 didn't have the couch of awkwardness, nor everything and everyone being filmed backstage . Kwan had some moments to compose herself before coming out to take her bows and face the press. I think Trusova really could have benefitted from having those moments of privacy too.

It's odd, I was pulling for both Kwan in 1998 and Trusova here. If not for Arakawa 2006 , I would have a perfect record of never having the lady I'm pulling for win.

 

[Allskate]

He absolutely does represent the state because there is no country called "Nathan Chen".

I think you probably understood my point as I was responding to a post arguing that Trusova had the pressure of representing a state-sponsored sporting system, but let me rephrase. Nathan represents the United States because he is a member of the United States Olympic team, but he is not a product and representative of a state sporting system the way Russian skaters are. The Kremlin itself is taking on the IOC's concerns about Valieva's treatment by her coach. I am very, very glad that we do not have a sports system like Russia's.

However, I don't think that Trusova's distress was a result of being a representative of Russia's state sponsored sporting system and not getting a gold for Russia. She was upset over not winning the gold for herself. The stresses that Nathan and Michelle have faced, while not coming from a state sponsored sporting system, have been huge, including as 17 year-olds, and they did not throw tantrums when they had disappointments.

 

[manhn]

Every time there is some controversy about the results, defenders question the second place skater’s artistry or PCS. YuNa apparently can’t express emotion, Love Story is devoid of choreography, Kwan was mechanical, V&Ms FD is a Mahler knockoff, Plushy barely skated around the ice, etc. It is what it is.

And then there’s the “non-PC, at least she is being honest!” defence.

 

[soogar]

I don't get your logic. Do you think it would have made sense for them to hold a medal ceremony even when they know they have a legal situation preventing them from doing so? If they would have held the medal ceremony knowing they have a doping scandal on their hands and it became known that they didn't disclose it the scandal would have been huge and the damage to the integrity of the sport would have been even bigger than it already is.
Protecting Valieva was important, but you do not protect a victim and victimize others in the process. I would argue that the way events unfolded did exactly that, but to hold a fake medal ceremony would have victimized every single American and Japanese skater who would have been forced to unknowingly participate in that farce.

What would your logic be? Officials were in a highly visible situation involving a minor. There are rules in effect to protect the minor's interests including the minor's identity. A legal situation involving a minor is different than one with an adult- because they had hearing to determine whether she could still participate. They would not have done this for an adult. Since part of the hearing was a consideration of whether prohibiting her would cause "irreperable harm", this should have also extended toward protection of the minor from public scrutiny. No one received their medals or their day on the podium. It's not as if the Olympics had not had medal ceremonies in which the athlete was stripped after a positive drug tests. It has happened a lot in the Olympics over the years. She didn't have a positive drug test at the games, she had one from December that was processed late.

Has the Olympics ever delayed handing out medals the way they had here? To permit her to compete and and ban her from medal ceremonies without formally declaring a finding on her drug test?

None of the team event participants have received their medals or even had the experience of standing on the podium. I'm sure receving a medal in the mail a few months later is worth not having to participate in a "sham" at the Olympics to protect a minor's identity.

 

[Mayra]

I think you can acknowledge that these girls have been through a ridiculous amount of emotional upheaval in the past few weeks and still think Sasha's behavior was unsportsmanlike. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. That bubble they were in did not help anyone in this situation. To be isolated from loved ones and be under constant pressure is not easy. I empathize with everything they were all going through, but I still think Sasha was lacking in sportsmanship.

Imagine seeing your training mate go through the most horrific few weeks of her life, fall off the podium and have an emotional breakdown at the Olympics with the world watching, and instead of going up to her to offer comfort, you stand directly behind her and have a breakdown of your own because you didn't win. Sasha smelled blood in the water and became upset when someone else beat her to the bait. It came across as being incredibly insensitive.

To Sasha's credit, after her initial outburst behind Kamila, she tried to hide and have a moment to herself. Unfortunately Olympic protocols trumped having a moment to yourself and mourning a dream lost. I think someone from her team should have asked for a few minutes and let her have the emotional release she clearly needed in privacy. JMO

 

[skatfan]

There's no doubt that there were improprieties and adults dropped the ball. However Bach and company created this awful situation for Kamila. The CAS wrote a good decision and probably factored that this test was sprung on her at the games, she had no opportunity for an adequate defense, and also she had tested negative at Euros and at the Olympics, in addition to her being a favorite to win. This all should have been done behind closed doors.

He can criticize the coach all he wants, they created this awful situation that caused her to break down like that.

Again you need to go back and actually look at the real timeline and not the one you’ve created in your mind.

 

[taz'smum]

I also question why Team Tutberidze didn’t follow up with Rusada to find out where the results were. After all, they must have known she was tested, and they had to know the test results could be an issue for their star skater, so why didn’t they check up on it? It would be like getting to the airport for your international flight, being denied because you didn’t have your passport, and complaining that the passport agency took too long to process and return the renewal. At a certain point, we all need to take personal responsibility for meeting legal requirements. In this case I don’t think Kamila as a minor should have been responsible. I do think her coaching team should have made sure she had that test result. To the extent they didn’t, I have to wonder why.

Good point, as I always keep an eye on tiff’s account on the ADAMS site to check that the tests have come back negative, particularly in the Olympic season. That’s his I know how long they usually take to come back.

 

[Xela M]

RUSADA didn't mark her probe as a priority, Eteri & Co didn't bother to find out the results - right before the Olympics... not suspicious at all

 

[pachelbel]

I also question why Team Tutberidze didn’t follow up with Rusada to find out where the results were. After all, they must have known she was tested, and they had to know the test results could be an issue for their star skater, so why didn’t they check up on it? It would be like getting to the airport for your international flight, being denied because you didn’t have your passport, and complaining that the passport agency took too long to process and return the renewal. At a certain point, we all need to take personal responsibility for meeting legal requirements. In this case I don’t think Kamila as a minor should have been responsible. I do think her coaching team should have made sure she had that test result. To the extent they didn’t, I have to wonder why.

Three reasons I thought of:

1. Cheating. They might have been informed that KV tested positive and thought if they waited long enough the problem would "disappear"

2. Arrogance. Drug tests had never been an issue until this point, so she just assumed it would be fine because it always is

3. Incompetence. Someone on her team dropped the ball with following up

 

[Sylvia]

AP Exclusive: US skaters file appeal to get Olympic medals

The U.S. figure skaters whose Olympic silver medals are being withheld have filed an appeal to have them awarded before the end of the Beijing Games, with a decision expected as soon as Saturday night.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport confirmed to The Associated Press that it was hearing the case Saturday evening in Beijing and expected a rapid ruling.
In a letter [linked here] sent to IOC president Thomas Bach, a copy of which was obtained by AP, attorneys for the skaters said they sought a ruling before Sunday’s closing ceremony.

U.S. Figure Skating executive director Ramsey Baker sent the AP a statement standing in support of the skaters.
“Having a medal ceremony at an Olympic Games is not something that can be replicated anywhere else, and they should be celebrated in front of the world before leaving Beijing,” Baker said.
The letter to Bach, sent by attorney Paul Greene, who represents athletes in doping and other cases against Olympic authorities, said the IOC president had asked the athletes for their input.
“A dignified medal ceremony from our clients’ vantage point is one in the Medals Plaza as originally planned and afforded to all other medalists,” he wrote.

 

[Sylvia]

Hey maybe my 2/16 tweet helped? (in which I said I also wanted Japan to be included in a public ceremony with USA): https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1494035456899620867

I posted this CNN article yesterday in the CAS thread:

Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue: 'We have our own empty medal box waiting in our room,' say US ice dancers left in limbo by Kamila Valieva case | CNN

Team USA ice dancers Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue say they have their "empty medal box waiting in our room," as they wait to receive their figure skating team event medal which has been postponed without a date in light of Kamila Valieva's ongoing doping case.

www.cnn.com

"We were really looking forward to sharing that Olympic moment together. It's an incredibly difficult situation for everyone involved, but certainly I don't think that it's fair to any of the athletes who medal that we have to forego that Olympic moment ... it's hard to go home empty-handed," Hubbell said.
Donohue added that he hopes the situation would be solved "as quickly as possible," both for the athletes and for the integrity of sport.
"We have a whole team of athletes that have finished competing and are staring looking at an empty box and the unknown of the future and missing out on that Olympics moment," Donohue said.

The two ice dancers were among the US skaters that met with International Olympic Committee (IOC) President Thomas Bach on Wednesday, which Bach described on Friday as "very fruitful."
Both Hubbell and Donohue said they appreciated meeting Bach to share their perspectives on the Valieva issue.
"We didn't leave the meeting feeling, I don't think any better about this situation, but at least you know, we had our chance to kind of say what it feels like to be an athlete in our shoes," Hubbell said.
Donohue confirmed that they have received Olympic torches from the IOC, which Bach earlier clarified was a "token of appreciation" for an honest meeting, not a consolation for a medal.

 

[Karen-W]

AP Exclusive: US skaters file appeal to get Olympic medals

Hopefully CAS' Ad-Hoc Appeals Committee finds some creative way to rule against the IOC again and both the USA and JPN athletes get their medal ceremony!

 

[skatingguy]

Hopefully CAS' Ad-Hoc Appeals Committee finds some creative way to rule against the IOC again and both the USA and JPN athletes get their medal ceremony!

Not likely - Valieva's back in Moscow now - can't hold the ceremony without all the medalists present.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Hopefully CAS' Ad-Hoc Appeals Committee finds some creative way to rule against the IOC again and both the USA and JPN athletes get their medal ceremony!

They made up a rule to do the wrong thing. Hopefully they can make up a rule to do the right thing.

 

[Karen-W]

Not likely - Valieva's back in Moscow now - can't hold the ceremony without all the medalists present.

Sure they can. And, also, if the IOC's position is that the TE results are still provisional therefore they can't have a medal ceremony then they shouldn't have held a medal ceremony for the Women's event either since those results are still provisional, regardless of who finished in podium places.

 

[MacMadame]

Not likely - Valieva's back in Moscow now - can't hold the ceremony without all the medalists present.

Is that a real rule? I've never heard of it.

 

[skatingguy]

Is that a real rule? I've never heard of it.

Not yet. That's my prediction for the CAS ruling.

 

[Sylvia]

Hopefully CAS' Ad-Hoc Appeals Committee finds some creative way to rule against the IOC again and both the USA and JPN athletes get their medal ceremony!

But Japan is not included in the appeal.

 

[Karen-W]

But Japan is not included in the appeal.

That's their choice. If the US wins the appeal do you really think Japan would skip the medal ceremony?