Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[zebraswan]

A teenaged Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, or Michelle Kwan would have gritted her teeth off camera for two seconds at most and then gone into the interview to say with a smile, "She skated better than I did today."

None of those girls were trapped in a Covid bubble for weeks with the shock of having a teammate accused of doping - I cannot imagine the stress and pressure, wondering if another shoe was going to drop and if they were going to come for me next, trying to avoid the media jackals, dealing with a coaching team that was at the very least highly distracted and likely on edge far more than usual. In no way can you compare Sasha's situation to anyone who came before. I felt traumatized and I wasn't even there! I'm not even normally invested in ladies' skating at all, I far prefer the men. But the whole thing was like a Greek tragedy...it makes Alina vs Evgenia look like an episode of Sesame Street.

 

[just tuned in]

Athletes of any age can have a meltdown. Raising the age to whatever will not change that.

Bach made a mistake during the press conference in characterizing his feelings wrt ET's behavior after KV's skate.

During the Q+A portion, Bach stood firm that his obligation is to clean athletes, not to doped ones.

 

[barbk]

The press wouldn't have been on the matter if they didn't hold up the medal ceremony. If things had gone on as planned, the press would have never gotten wind that there was something wrong. Of course the ceremony was held up for days and of course the press is going to investigate and see why.

If it had been anyone BUT Kamila, the name would have been immediately publicized. Depending on which of the other athletes it was, it might have resulted in a re-ordering of the placements in the team event. If her scores are dropped from the team event, Russia falls off the podium entirely.

They were between a rock and a hard place.

 

[attyfan]

None of those girls were trapped in a Covid bubble for weeks with the shock of having a teammate accused of doping - I cannot imagine the stress and pressure, wondering if another shoe was going to drop and if they were going to come for me next, trying to avoid the media jackals, dealing with a coaching team that was at the very least highly distracted and likely on edge far more than usual. In no way can you compare Sasha's situation to anyone who came before. .....

While there was no pandemic issue, a 13 year old Michelle Kwan did not
publicly break when she was the alternate to Tonya-Nancy; she also would have felt stress and pressure wondering if another shoe (in the form of additional evidence) would drop so Tonya would be pulled. It is somewhat similar, in that the focus was on potential wrongdoing involving another skater. Seriously, while I think all three Russian girls were under great pressure, it was greatest on Kamila ... while I wouldn't have been shocked if she let loose, but I am somewhat surprised that the outburst came from Sasha.

 

[soogar]

If it had been anyone BUT Kamila, the name would have been immediately publicized. Depending on which of the other athletes it was, it might have resulted in a re-ordering of the placements in the team event. If her scores are dropped from the team event, Russia falls off the podium entirely.

They were between a rock and a hard place.

They already decided that to protect her because she was a minor. Once that decision is made, hand out the medals and go through with the ceremony. What's a few bucks to China? That country already lost a ton of money because there is no attendance. Sure reasonable minds could figure out that the longer they delay the ceremony, the harder it would be to keep her identity under wraps.

 

[Nadya]

Of which you have contributed nothing interesting or relevant...


What business is it of Zhulin's, though? Bach was at the IOC press conference and asked a direct question. He gave a response. Zhulin has no dog in this fight, so, really, if anyone needs to sit down and STFU here, it's him.

Yes, it has been a longtime dream of mine to be found interesting or relevant by a complete stranger. Not.

It doesn't need to be Zhulin's business. Bach was at a press conference. He made a public statement. I mean my dog can comment on it if he wishes, and he doesn't have a dog in this fight either.

 

[iceskater10]

We need an 'IDIOT" emoji!

The "IDIOT" emoji would be for you.

 

[Nadya]

The "IDIOT" emoji would be for you.

WTF?

 

[zebraswan]

While there was no pandemic issue, a 13 year old Michelle Kwan did not
publicly break when she was the alternate to Tonya-Nancy; she also would have felt stress and pressure wondering if another shoe (in the form of additional evidence) would drop so Tonya would be pulled. It is somewhat similar, in that the focus was on potential wrongdoing involving another skater. Seriously, while I think all three Russian girls were under great pressure, it was greatest on Kamila ... while I wouldn't have been shocked if she let loose, but I am somewhat surprised that the outburst came from Sasha.

We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Her relationship with the coaches may be more strained given that she left and came back. Maybe she was freaking out wondering if she'd also been given TMZ unwittingly. Plus everyone's just different. Other factors could affect her mental state like if she was experiencing physical pain, maybe she wasn't sleeping or eating well (she said she didn't like the food choices there), etc. Who knows - like another poster wrote, anyone can have a breakdown, but it doesn’t mean everyone will in the same circumstances.

 

[pointbleu]

The press wouldn't have been on the matter if they didn't hold up the medal ceremony. If things had gone on as planned, the press would have never gotten wind that there was something wrong. Of course the ceremony was held up for days and of course the press is going to investigate and see why.

How would it have been perceived if people learned months later that RUSADA and cie knew about the positive test but let it go as if nothing happened? It would have been a bigger outrage.

 

[KaoriFan]

I had previously thought so anymore. I don't necessarily think so. Kamala plight has touched a lot of Russians. She has a lot of sympathy right now.

Well, the most explanation of everything would be if Kamila was ordered to throw the FS by much higher up than Eteri, but Eteri didn't even know about it.

 

[becca]

How would it have been perceived if people learned months later that RUSADA and cie knew about the positive test but let it go as if nothing happened? It would have been a bigger outrage.

I honestly don’t think they would have hid the results. They didn’t need Kamila to win ladies or the team event. Liza might have on bronze here.

Russia wouldn’t throw away a guaranteed gold in the team

 

[Vagabond]

None of those girls were trapped in a Covid bubble for weeks with the shock of having a teammate accused of doping - I cannot imagine the stress and pressure, wondering if another shoe was going to drop and if they were going to come for me next, trying to avoid the media jackals, dealing with a coaching team that was at the very least highly distracted and likely on edge far more than usual. In no way can you compare Sasha's situation to anyone who came before. I felt traumatized and I wasn't even there! I'm not even normally invested in ladies' skating at all, I far prefer the men. But the whole thing was like a Greek tragedy...it makes Alina vs Evgenia look like an episode of Sesame Street.

You can compare Trusova's reaction to the bronze medalist, who has been in a bubble for weeks, had a pall cast over the affairs by a bigger, stronger rival Federation, and may have had one or two higher medals denied her thanks to the machinations of that rival Federation's star coach.

Sakamoto handled it all with aplomb, and I daresay she would have done so were she still a teenager.

I feel sorry for Trusova (and her training mates), but bad behavior is bad behavior.

Be honest. If you had a seventeen-year-old daughter who had just earned an Olympic Silver Medal, would you tell her that it was okay to throw a temper tantrum about it?

 

[barbk]

You can compare Trusova's reaction to the bronze medalist, who has been in a bubble for weeks, had a pall cast over the affairs by a bigger, stronger rival Federation, and may have had one or two higher medals denied her thanks to the machinations of that rival Federation's star coach.

Sakamoto handled it all with aplomb, and I daresay she would have done so were she still a teenager.

I feel sorry for Trusova (and her training mates), but bad behavior is bad behavior.

Be honest. If you had a seventeen-year-old daughter who had just earned an Olympic Silver Medal, would you tell her that it was okay to throw a temper tantrum about it?

No adults told her this was ok, nor would they. When a teen has a meltdown, it is not a lot different from a five-year-old having a meltdown.

 

[sjs5572]

LOL what are you hoping to find there? A handwritten plan in Eteri's hand saying, "don't forget to dope Kamila, here's the schedule"?

Orders to pharmacies; payments to pharmacies. Invoices. Don't be disingenuous.

 

[becca]

You can compare Trusova's reaction to the bronze medalist, who has been in a bubble for weeks, had a pall cast over the affairs by a bigger, stronger rival Federation, and may have had one or two higher medals denied her thanks to the machinations of that rival Federation's star coach.

Sakamoto handled it all with aplomb, and I daresay she would have done so were she still a teenager.

I feel sorry for Trusova (and her training mates), but bad behavior is bad behavior.

Be honest. If you had a seventeen-year-old daughter who had just earned an Olympic Silver Medal, would you tell her that it was okay to throw a temper tantrum about it?

I don’t condone Trusova’s behavior but I don’t think the situation compares.

Kaori came into the situation knowing that she would need help even to win bronze because her TES couldn’t compare. Bronze was her gold.

She was thrilled to be on the podium

 

[Bouffantrex]

A teenaged Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, or Michelle Kwan would have gritted her teeth off camera for two seconds at most and then gone into the interview to say with a smile, "She skated better than I did today."

What a feeble comparison to make. None of the skaters you listed were coached by Eteri Tutberidze or trained in the insane competitive atmosphere that is Sambo 70 or an abusive doping-fueled coaching environment.

I am hardly a fan of Trusova, and if GOE/PCS were applied correctly, she should have been ranked no better than sixth. However, I find no fault in her reaction and can only imagine the fragile mental state of all of these girls, considering what they have been conditioned to believe over time.

I prefer to focus on Eteri Tutberidze. From what I've seen of the Russian response, this situation is everyone's fault EXCEPT Tutberidze. At this rate, I have no desire to see Russians at any Olympics or ISU events in the near future, until we see genuinely transparent accountability.

 

[Karen-W]

I don’t condone Trusova’s behavior but I don’t think the situation compares.

Kaori came into the situation knowing that she would need help even to win bronze because her TES couldn’t compare. Bronze was her gold.

She was thrilled to be on the podium

I agree with this to an extent. Kaori had the benefit of going into the competition knowing she would need help to get on the podium. Boy, did she get it.

From our outsider's vantage point, we knew the same was true for Sasha with regard to gold - she would need help to win. But, and here's where I think it's fair to remind ourselves that she is a headstrong 17 year-old, we don't know what her support system was telling her with regard to her chances of winning. And by support system, I don't mean just the coaches but also her parents. For all we know, Eteri & Co were trying to be honest with her and she/her parents just wouldn't listen.

I've been in a similar situation, albeit not with an Olympic medal on the line, and it didn't matter how gently or candidly I or anyone else tried to get it through to the 17 year-old or her parents that their end goal was not very likely, no matter how many warning signs were obviously there and pointed out to them, they simply refused to believe that anything less than what they'd set their sights on would be the final outcome. And when the result was announced, with this youngster in front of a crowd of 200 people, where she didn't get her desired outcome, she fell apart. Her parents were just as outraged. And she had a temper tantrum meltdown for the ages. And everyone else just kind of sat there alternately feeling rather awkward about it (and I do place some blame for that situation on other adults who had more influence/control over the outcome for not being a bit more honest about this young person's chances at achieving her desired result - similar to how the judges weren't setting appropriate expectations with the over-scoring of Trusova's PCS and her non-jumping elements), and pointing out to younger teens & pre-teens present just what a poor sport the youngster was being about it.

Now, the situation isn't entirely comparable, but it's disturbingly similar, and, much as I agree that Trusova behaved very badly and, clearly, did not go into the competition with reasonable expectations, I can see how it is possible that there was simply "no talking to her" or getting it through her or her parents' heads, beforehand. Thus, her meltdown. No, it isn't excusable, but it's entirely understandable, and I can cut her some slack because I've seen kids that age absolutely inconsolable, even when all of the signs have been pointing toward a different outcome that they just refused to see going in. Hopefully, with some time and self-reflection, she'll come to recognize how poorly she behaved and how her own choices led to the result.

 

[Maximillian]

I don’t condone Trusova’s behavior but I don’t think the situation compares.

Kaori came into the situation knowing that she would need help even to win bronze because her TES couldn’t compare. Bronze was her gold.

She was thrilled to be on the podium

I see where you're coming from, but the elephant in the room is the suspiscion that ET's entire team is doping, so really Kaori might be the rightful gold medalist. There I said it: Sorry/Not Sorry.

 

[becca]

I see where you're coming from, but the elephant in the room is the suspiscion that ET's entire team is doping, so really Kaori might be the rightful gold medalist. There I said it: Sorry/Not Sorry.

True but unfortunately there is no proof of this Sasha and Anna have passed all their tests and were apparently given blood tests too.

Even if two years from now they text positive their Olympic medals aren’t up for grabs

 

[Maximillian]

True but unfortunately there is no proof of this Sasha and Anna have passed all their tests and were apparently given blood tests too.

Even if two years from now they text positive their Olympic medals aren’t up for grabs

No, I agree, I'm just saying Kaori was entitled to feel indignant...

 

[becca]

No, I agree, I'm just saying Kaori was entitled to feel indignant...

Not really. I don’t agree with guilt by association.

 

[Maximillian]

Not really. I don’t agree with guilt by association.

I don't think it's really guilt by association as much as 'where there's smoke there's fire' or in this case, 'where there's fire, there's probably a lot more gasoline.'

 

[thvu]

Orders to pharmacies; payments to pharmacies. Invoices. Don't be disingenuous.

That pretty much applies to all of @Nadya ’s points and arguments.

 

[Carolla5501]

Orders to pharmacies; payments to pharmacies. Invoices. Don't be disingenuous.

And none of those are illegal. It’s not illegal to order drugs if you have a prescription, so you have to prove somebody took it. Orders to pharmacies just prove somebody orders. Not enough

 

[Allskate]

While there was no pandemic issue, a 13 year old Michelle Kwan did not
publicly break when she was the alternate to Tonya-Nancy; she also would have felt stress and pressure wondering if another shoe (in the form of additional evidence) would drop so Tonya would be pulled. It is somewhat similar, in that the focus was on potential wrongdoing involving another skater. Seriously, while I think all three Russian girls were under great pressure, it was greatest on Kamila ... while I wouldn't have been shocked if she let loose, but I am somewhat surprised that the outburst came from Sasha.

Michelle Kwan also was under tremendous pressure as a 17 year-old when she was expected to win gold and ended up with a very close silver. She did not throw a temper tantrum. She was a class act.

 

[sjs5572]

And none of those are illegal. It’s not illegal to order drugs if you have a prescription, so you have to prove somebody took it. Orders to pharmacies just prove somebody orders. Not enough

Why would a training center be ordering TMZ? If it's for the personal use of a coach or employee, they would purchase using their own bank account or credit cards?

 

[overedge]

Michelle Kwan also was under tremendous pressure as a 17 year-old when she was expected to win gold and ended up with a very close silver. She did not throw a temper tantrum. She was a class act.

Michelle Kwan didn't have an entire state-sponsored training system behind her, with expectations that her placement would reflect well on the international reputation of the country. IMO Kwan also wasn't overmarked in previous years and then marked more reasonably at that particular competition.

 

[MacMadame]

I agree with this to an extent. Kaori had the benefit of going into the competition knowing she would need help to get on the podium. Boy, did she get it.

But she also needed to be perfect in order to take advantage of that help, if it came, and that is a different kind of stress.

 

[Cachoo]

No adults told her this was ok, nor would they. When a teen has a meltdown, it is not a lot different from a five-year-old having a meltdown.

Looking forward to that age going up…at what age can we avoid temper tantrums?
Also how can we make this worse?? Let’s have Zhulin for the defense! To be fair I never liked him but that goes way back to his first marriage. I’m sure he’s a swell guy now.