Royalty Thread #9. Welcome Archie, the red headed heir, don’t care!

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Good to know the parenting experts don't agree with me about Meghan's baby hold being awkward - now I don't need to worry about him slipping out of her arms or her bent wrist getting cramped.

Yeah, I did everything "wrong" too when I had babies as I did everything opposite of what the early 90's trends were - and my kids turned out okay, despite having me as their stupid mother. :p
 
I feel Meghan is doing a great job. I wish for her that she didn't have to worry about everyone else's opinions. I kind of agree with the actress who said she won't post pics of her kids because everyone just criticizes everything. But, being royals, maybe Meghan and Kate think they have a duty to put some things out.

I think Meghan and Kate may be trying to make it seem as if there really is no break between them and the whole rift thing was an invention of the press to get us to read their press. I believe the two are good friends.

I adore Meghan and would not body shame anyone who had just birthed a baby, but I think Meghan's dress didn't flow over her leftover, bless her, little baby tummy. Probably just the wrong fabric. Someone will fix it before it happens another time.

I also think, and again not criticizing anything Meghan does so don't get mad, that she either was perhaps holding Archie in a position to cover her post birth shape or he's a burper or spitter and she was trying to make any of those lesser problems. I agree a sling would help. He's only two months old, she will bounce back sooner than later and he will normalize. I was thrilled to see so many precious photos.

My daughter is touring London with her DH and 4 boys, ages 9-17. They went to Kensington Palace this morning and just happened to see Harry coming out being driven in a Range Rover. Made her trip!
 
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made_in_canada said:
It is crazy how much criticism moms get online and in person. It drives me crazy. And it’s never dads. Just moms. Even though every single parent does things that aren’t recommended at some point. Life is messy and we’re human. And often sleep deprived.
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I really liked your comment, there are complete double standards when discussing men and women online and elsewhere. Typically the focus for women is on their looks and appearence, rather than the many other attibutes that go to make up a human being. I find that a bit unfair and depressing tbh.
 
I'm not even a mom, but I once stumbled into a vicious mommy war on Facebook ... over wee wee pads. I really couldn't believe these moms were hurling death threats at each other over wee wee pads. It was surreal.
 
I must be misreading this thread because I did not read any mommy shaming or body shaming post about Meghan. I did read posts talking about
the evils of mommy shaming and body shaming. Don't jump on me I am against any type of shaming but I just do not see it here.
 
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kittyjake5 said:
I must be misreading this thread because I did not read any mommy shaming or body shaming post about Meghan. I did read posts talking about
the evils of mommy shaming and body shaming. Don't jump on me I am against any type of shaming but I just do see it here.
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I took one of @taf2002 's posts to be calling me out for mommy-shaming. Which is fine - it doesn't bother me and I think taf and I like each other enough to be able to disagree. And I have been proven wrong, so that's fine too.

Here's a story I think I may have shared before : my first baby, 21 hours into labor, contractions were 60 seconds long, 30 seconds apart for about 5 hours, yet I stopped dilating at 6cm, baby was presenting sideways. I was exhausted and in a lot of pain and finally asked for an epidural. My husband got mad at me for asking because "he thought I was stronger than that." I had that epidural anyways, and 3 hours later, after the doctor, 2 nurses, and at least 3 interns all shoved their hands up me to try and turn the baby the right way, and then having forceps delivery (and I've no clue how many stitches I got later as the doctor wouldn't tell me), I had a baby!! Which I though was pretty cool.
Then other people started telling me I should've had a C-section and why didn't I just ask for that? And my husband was still pissed I needed all that help and he was disappointed in me.
So my motherhood experience started off with everyone shaming/blaming me about how I gave birth the wrong way, to which my response is go fcuk yourself, so I have no issue if anyone wants to tell me to do the same, including Meghan.
:D
 
kittyjake5 said:
I must be misreading this thread because I did not read any mommy shaming or body shaming post about Meghan.
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Same.

I think one can look at a picture and say how something looks to them without having any judgemental intentions. I thought the way Meghan held Archie looked like he was very heavy and yes, it did look awkward to me. That doesn't mean that I think she's doing it wrong. It just means that it looked that way to me in the pictures (and it's entirely possible that the pictures showed something that looked entirely different in real life). She obviously was fine since she didn't adjust him and that's all that matters.
 
Thanks for sharing quartz, sorry you had to go through that. I have edited my above post it should have read "but I do not see it here" .

I suppose my whole family is guilty of mommy shaming but I always took their comments as helpful criticism.:)
 
ballettmaus said:
Same.

I think one can look at a picture and say how something looks to them without having any judgemental intentions. I thought the way Meghan held Archie looked like he was very heavy and yes, it did look awkward to me. That doesn't mean that I think she's doing it wrong. It just means that it looked that way to me in the pictures (and it's entirely possible that the pictures showed something that looked entirely different in real life). She obviously was fine since she didn't adjust him and that's all that matters.
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Bingo!
 
@quartz, when men spend a day or more in labor, they are allowed an opinion on their birthing method. Until then their opinions don't count.

No man has the right to criticize the way a mother gives birth.

In fact, I was so exhausted after 24 hours of labor and 90 minutes of pushing. Towards the end of the birth process when the nurse, my husband and the doctor were telling me "it's a strong contraction, push" I screamed at them "if you want to push that's fine, I'm tired and i can't do this anymore im not pushing" and I didn't for the next 12 or so contractions. I didn't have the strength to do it
 
once_upon said:
@quartz, when men spend a day or more in labor, they are allowed an opinion on their birthing method. Until then their opinions don't count.

No man has the right to criticize the way a mother gives birth.

In fact, I was so exhausted after 24 hours of labor and 90 minutes of pushing. Towards the end of the birth process when the nurse, my husband and the doctor were telling me "it's a strong contraction, push" I screamed at them "if you want to push that's fine, I'm tired and i can't do this anymore im not pushing" and I didn't for the next 12 or so contractions. I didn't have the strength to do it
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He has his right to his opinion of me and to voice it. If he believes me to be weak despite being right beside me during labor/birth, then clearly we have a different perspective and I’m certainly not going to waste my time trying to change his attitude. I’m proud of me - even if I’m the only one!
 
@quartz, I really wasn't thinking of you when I mentioned mommy-shaming. And, no it wasn't "OMG she's doing it all wrong!!" from anyone. But being pseudo-concerned that she was going to drop the baby because of her awkward (read: wrong) hold is IMO mommy-shaming. I read crap like that every day on facebook.

BTW, any man who thinks a woman isn't doing it right if she's not stoic thru childbirth is a man who hasn't been kicked in the balls or had a catheter pulled out. FFS, men act like they're dying when they have a cold.
 
once_upon said:
@quartz, when men spend a day or more in labor, they are allowed an opinion on their birthing method. Until then their opinions don't count.
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Is it about gender? Does anyone, male or female, who's not you and has your body get to have a valid opinion on birthing choices (unless they're qualified or very experienced)? I don't think so!
 
canbelto said:
I'm not even a mom, but I once stumbled into a vicious mommy war on Facebook ... over wee wee pads. I really couldn't believe these moms were hurling death threats at each other over wee wee pads. It was surreal.
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I heard that there was a huge and horrible meltdown once on a mom-type forum over the topic of child leashes.
 
Lacey said:
I adore Meghan and would not body shame anyone who had just birthed a baby, but I think Meghan's dress didn't flow over her leftover, bless her, little baby tummy. Probably just the wrong fabric. Someone will fix it before it happens another time.
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IMO, what you say here is body shaming.

So what if people can see a new mom's leftover baby tummy? New moms have far more important things to attend to. And yes, I get that Royals are held to a higher standard, given that they are so much in the public eye. And new moms who are Royals probably do pay close attention to how their dresses flow over their tummies. Most of the time. In this case Megan or her attendants failed to notice. Not a big deal.

IceSlider said:
Is it about gender? Does anyone, male or female, who's not you and has your body get to have a valid opinion on birthing choices (unless they're qualified or very experienced)? I don't think so!
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I've never had a kid, but would expect that women who have done would share their opinions on birthing choices often - and that new moms-to-be would welcome their opinions at least some of the time.
 
taf2002 said:
Maybe I should have said "all husbands".
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My dad, who was my mother's husband for 51.5 years, never complained about minor illnesses. Never. He also didn't mention his earliest cancer symptoms to her ( or anyone) or seek medical care for them. Because he never complained about things like that. If he had, he might still be alive.
 
quartz said:
Here's a story I think I may have shared before : my first baby, 21 hours into labor, contractions were 60 seconds long, 30 seconds apart for about 5 hours, yet I stopped dilating at 6cm, baby was presenting sideways. I was exhausted and in a lot of pain and finally asked for an epidural. My husband got mad at me for asking because "he thought I was stronger than that." I had that epidural anyways, and 3 hours later, after the doctor, 2 nurses, and at least 3 interns all shoved their hands up me to try and turn the baby the right way, and then having forceps delivery (and I've no clue how many stitches I got later as the doctor wouldn't tell me), I had a baby!! Which I though was pretty cool.
Then other people started telling me I should've had a C-section and why didn't I just ask for that? And my husband was still pissed I needed all that help and he was disappointed in me.
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I’m sorry, but this is awful of him. He’s not the one giving birth; he doesn’t get a say. Getting an epidural (or not) is not a sign of weakness. And, it’s not like you can control the baby’s position. When he can give birth, he can have his opinion. You gave birth to his kid and he’s pissed at you? I would be livid.

On topic: I like Kate’s dress at the polo event.
 
Japanfan said:
IMO, what you say here is body shaming.

So what if people can see a new mom's leftover baby tummy? New moms have far more important things to attend to. And yes, I get that Royals are held to a higher standard, given that they are so much in the public eye. And new moms who are Royals probably do pay close attention to how their dresses flow over their tummies. Most of the time. In this case Megan or her attendants failed to notice. Not a big deal.



I've never had a kid, but would expect that women who have done would share their opinions on birthing choices often - and that new moms-to-be would welcome their opinions at least some of the time.
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Ahhhhh...no. I think any woman would not share their opinions of someone else's birthing choices. Certainly not publically.
If you have given birth you know plans are thrown out the door if circumstances dictate.
 
There's a difference between being critical and shaming. Very little of what's discussed here (if any) is shaming.

I imagine Meghan thought the dress would be fun and breezy. Personally I think it looks like a tent and that she's worn much better things before and since giving birth. The Cambridge kids are adorable. I know men who are complainers and men who are not.

And here is Queen Maxima putting her econ background to good use as she visits Bangladesh.
 
Zemgirl said:
There's a difference between being critical and shaming. Very little of what's discussed here (if any) is shaming.
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And just what is that difference prey tell?...When does criticism cross the line into shaming behaviour?...is it the nature of each statement? The intention behind the posting(s) (which may be hard to discern from strangers and online)? The quanitity of statements? Of a combination of all three?... And who gets to judge that, the posters, the person on the recieving end?... It's tricky and unfortumately, it can sometimes, when we don't get that right, have real life consequences....

Earlier in the thread people were debating privacy of the Royals. For me' this later part of the thread has made the case for protecting privacy and safeguarding families from the interest of strangers, however well intentioned.
 
Shaming can involve publicizing and pushing back against behavior that is counter to societal norms - this is the "has Justine landed" sort of shaming, and can be out of all proportion to the original action. This is not the case here. It's an internal discussion, not an attempt to shame any royal into correct behavior or to punish them for transgressions.

Shaming can also involve making individuals feel bad about their choices, which are nobody else's business. This can happen offline, because some people are jerks, and of course online, where context is often lacking and people allow themselves to say things they would never say to someone's face. However, to the best of my knowledge the only royal involved in figure skating is Princess Alexandra of Hanover, and she's not on FSU. So none of us are shaming any royals in this way.

Shaming can also derive from bullying and bigotry, and that is something that has been targeted at Meghan. But very few people in this thread have made statements that crossed that line. And FSU is not high profile enough for it to have much of an effect even if we were all a bunch of bullies, which we are not.

I have seen FSUers shame other FSUers, sometimes for reasons that seemed justified (people who were being bigots) and sometimes not so much. But for the most part this is a welcoming and supportive community. Just sometimes a snarky one.
 
ballettmaus said:
Same.

I think one can look at a picture and say how something looks to them without having any judgemental intentions. I thought the way Meghan held Archie looked like he was very heavy and yes, it did look awkward to me. That doesn't mean that I think she's doing it wrong. It just means that it looked that way to me in the pictures (and it's entirely possible that the pictures showed something that looked entirely different in real life). She obviously was fine since she didn't adjust him and that's all that matters.
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Totally agree here. The majority of the pics were clearly taken in a small window of time - probably a 10 to 15 minute window. Baby Archie looked content and Meghan didn't look like she was worried about her hold or that she was going to drop him. To be honest Archie was doing what I see a lot a new born little ones do - rest his head with his ear turned to his Mommy's chest listening to her heartbeat which would have been a sound of comfort and security to him.

Did I think the hold looked uncomfortable- yes I did but as we know still pictures can tell a story that isn't correct. If we saw a video we may have seen Meghan gently swaying or rocking. As I said Archie seemed content in the pics and that's all that matters
 
Zemgirl said:
It's an internal discussion
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It's an online discussion that is returned in results of almost all search engines. It's taking place in a room without walls. I accept the intention may not be to shame. I do observe that it was necessary to explain that, which was kind of the point I was making... :)
 
IceSlider said:
It's an online discussion that is returned in results of almost all search engines. It's taking place in a room without walls. I accept the intention may not be to shame. I do observe that it was necessary to explain that, which was kind of the point I was making... :)
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I expect that Royals (and most celebrities for that matter) avoid reading online discussions about themselves. And that unlike the POTUS, have better things to do with their time than respond to perceived slights with nasty tweets.
 
My Mom was so very proud of her British heritage and loved the royal family, especially the Queen. Unfortunately, she died during the challenging Charles/Diana - Andrew/Fergie years. She would have loved to see these pictures of the next generation looking so happy and enjoying their beautiful children. To me - the royal family seems quite normal and similar to other families in many ways - moments of joy and years of mostly positive vibes interspersed with some pure shite. Seeing both William and Harry happy after the devastation of losing their beloved mother so young should give hope to many who can't currently see the light at all. Both Kate and Meagan impress me as being confident and mature young women who seem up to the challenge of being royal and having everything they do or don't do scrutinized. My hat is off to both of them.
 
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