Royalty Thread #7: Do They Get Frequent Flier Miles?

[MacMadame]

ETA: Isn't this the second time in this thread that @AxelAnnie has mistaken blue clothing for black?

Navy can look black in a photo. I suspect she needs her screen color adjusted but it's really only something that graphic designers need to really worry about.

OTOH, if getting into arguments online about whether or not something is black or navy gets annoying, some computers have a built-in color adjustment preference. Mac OS does.

The times I have seen them and heard them referenced noted a strong and self assured woman wearing expensive shoes that were meant to send a sexy message.

Except the wikipedia entry you quoted doesn't support that. In particular it says "It is sometimes used to imply condemnation against the women who choose to wear them or in a misogynistic fashion toward the women who wear them."

It also says "The term can be applied to any women's shoes that are worn with the intention of arousing others." (emphasis mine). Assuming women wear shoes to get people sexual arroused and not because they like them or they go with the outfit is definitely misogynsistic and qualifies as slut shaming in my book.

I thought the shoes were adorable, btw. And I hate heels and think many of today's styles (of high heeled shoes) are ridiculous and/or ugly.

 

[Japanfan]

I suspect people are not barred at the door for wearing an inappropriate color.
My understanding is that one does not wear black because it is the color of mourning (and hopefully all are celebrating at the wedding) and on does not wear white because that is the one does not upstage the bride.

Dress customs change, obviously. I still think the white and black at a wedding holds merit.

I don't think black is the traditional color of mourning any more. Or, so seemed to be the case at the last funeral I attended, which was my father's back in 2007. So, my experience of this is limited.

And more traditional cultures may retain traditional customs. For example, Eastern Orthodox comes to mind.

When I lived in Greece I saw widowed women who dressed in black all the time. I think I've seen the same among other Southern Mediterranean women. I wonder if this practice is still continuing? My guess is yes, but I do find it overly punitive. A widow should not have to mourn the loss of her partner for the rest of her life, or give the appearance of doing so.

 

[Japanfan]

Except the wikipedia entry you quoted doesn't support that. In particular it says "It is sometimes used to imply condemnation against the women who choose to wear them or in a misogynistic fashion toward the women who wear them."

It also says "The term can be applied to any women's shoes that are worn with the intention of arousing others." (emphasis mine). Assuming women wear shoes to get people sexual arroused and not because they like them or they go with the outfit is definitely misogynsistic and qualifies as slut shaming in my book.

Haven't women always worn heels because they believe it is sexy and will arouse others?

I never learned to wear heels. My role models were barefoot hippies.

In addition, my mother didn't put me in heels when I was young (15 in 1972), ostensibly because she was a progressive women and inspired by the women's lib movement. I think she wanted me to be free of the constraints that had been imposed on her as a woman, which were financial, emotional, intellectual (mom had to quit uni when she got married, then got her BA at 65 years old! ) and physical (i.e. she wore a girdle). I remember trying out a girdle and not liking it, and mom didn't press me to wear it. And mom was 5'6 and 114 pounds - no fat on her at all. What did she need a girdle for?

Later on in life I tried to wear heels but couldn't bear the pain, so never developed the habit.

But I always thought the purpose was to accentuate the leg and thus enhance sex appeal. The pretty heel in itself draws attention, and women in heels often adopt a deliberate and intentional 'sexy' walk to show off their legs and general body movement (not saying this can't be done in flats). This most likely works some of the time. A common example is shown in older movies, when a man opens the car door for a woman in heels and a dress, and she sits down in it in a certain way to accentuate her legs.

But a cautionary word about heels.

My MIL wore heels so much of the time that she was actually in pain when she wore flats. She had a job that required her to do a lot of walking and stair climbing, and she did better in her heels.

But she has funny posture and a funny curve to her spine that shouldn't be there. She has altered her spine through the excessive wearing of heels.

Plus, she wears heels badly. She stomps in them and makes a lot of noise, and is very unsteady when going down stairs. It's scary.

 

[Skittl1321]

I think there is a different between wanting to look good and "intending to arouse others".
I don't wear them, but heels make my calves look better. If I did wear them, it would be because it makes me look fit and healthy; not because I want people to have sex with me. Maybe Meghan wants to look nice for her husband, or maybe she chose it because it makes her feel good and the shoes are super cute.

If the only reason women choose clothes is to arouse others, maybe we should all go around in giant pillowcases. Meghan is extraordinarily fashionable; but I think her choices are her own style, and not for others pleasure.

 

[Parsley Sage]

I don't think black is the traditional color of mourning any more. Or, so seemed to be the case at the last funeral I attended, which was my father's back in 2007. So, my experience of this is limited.

And more traditional cultures may retain traditional customs. For example, Eastern Orthodox comes to mind.

When I lived in Greece I saw widowed women who dressed in black all the time. I think I've seen the same among other Southern Mediterranean women. I wonder if this practice is still continuing? My guess is yes, but I do find it overly punitive. A widow should not have to mourn the loss of her partner for the rest of her life, or give the appearance of doing so.

I know of some Italian women that wore black for a few years after their husband's died. A former co-worker wore black for over a year after her sister died. I went to the visitation for her sister and the majority of the Italian attendees were in black.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I know of some Italian women that wore black for a few years after their husband's died. A former co-worker wore black for over a year after her sister died. I went to the visitation for her sister and the majority of the Italian attendees were in black.

When I visited Yugoslavia in 1974 - all the widows of the WWII fighters were still in black.

 

[PDilemma]

I have to agree with you here @aftershocks Mr. Markle has lost his mind. That was some crazy interview. If he wants to reconsile with Meghan this is not helping his cause. If he were my Dad I would give him his walking papers pronto.

In addition, my mother didn't put me in heels when I was young (15 in 1972),



My MIL wore heels so much of the time that she was actually in pain when she wore flats. She had a job that required her to do a lot of walking and stair climbing, and she did better in her heels.

.

No one "put me in heels". I chose my own shoes by age 15. What does that even mean? I never wore heels in my teens because of knee problems. Started wearing them once in awhile in college because I liked how they looked and my knees were better. I wear them now mostly when dressing up.

I cannot wear a completely flat shoe. Those super trendy little ballet flats are actually as bad for most people's feet as very high heels as they have zero support. I have high arches and the things will barely stay on my feet. I have found that a low wedge heel is actually the best for my feet. And that is an expert recommendation as well--low broad heels are better than flats for your feet.

https://www.whowhatwear.com/upsetting-facts-about-wearing-flats

 

[once_upon]

Most of the weddings I've gone had at least one or two guests in black. For some women, they think the look thinner in black, some just like the color. Whatever..it's not a big deal.

Wasn't grey a color of mourning?

Funerals that I've attended, including my mother's, had colors. The dress we picked out for viewing was a beautiful royal blue flowered dress with a white sweater. I want everyone to wear purple, loud purple, muted purple, whatever.

As for Meghan's dress, it is gorgeous in my opinion. The shoes are super cute.

There are some uptight dedicated haters of Meghan in this thread. Harry seems to be head over heels in love with her. His is the only one who's opinion Meghan should hear.

 

[AxelAnnie]

No one "put me in heels". I chose my own shoes by age 15. What does that even mean? I never wore heels in my teens because of knee problems. Started wearing them once in awhile in college because I liked how they looked and my knees were better. I wear them now mostly when dressing up.

I cannot wear a completely flat shoe. Those super trendy little ballet flats are actually as bad for most people's feet as very high heels as they have zero support. I have high arches and the things will barely stay on my feet. I have found that a low wedge heel is actually the best for my feet. And that is an expert recommendation as well--low broad heels are better than flats for your feet.

https://www.whowhatwear.com/upsetting-facts-about-wearing-flats

I thought I was the only person in the world who could not wear those dang ballet slipper things.
I used to be able to work on my feet in 4 in heels. Ah those were the days. Now I don't think my knees would make it out of the closet.

 

[aftershocks]

I thought Meghan looked fine on her birthday at the von Straubenzee wedding. Sometime soon maybe eventually the novelty will wear off and people (especially the media) will give Meghan and Harry some breathing space. Yes the Duke & Duchess of Sussex are newlyweds. Yes the Duchess of Sussex is adjusting very happily to her new role with her new family and her new country. She's having a blast! She can do as she pleases with what she chooses to wear. I mean she's human and I sometimes have critical things to say. But Meghan (HRH Duchess of Sussex) is really very cool. She was funny, kind, hard-working and cool before she met Prince Harry, and now she's royally kind and historically cool.

Meghan had me at hello. And it was a beautiful royal wedding. She really had me envying the gorgeous, fun, elegant and dashing after-party halter dress by Stella McCartney, with baby blue soles on her white shoes, and Diana PofW's stunning aquamarine ring flashing on her finger, and needy, loving, charming Prince Harry on her arm, heading like a scene out of James Bond to historic Frogmore House on the grounds of Windsor Castle in a tiny electric-powered blue sports car worth a fortune... It must be so much better to be living the life of a British royal Duchess rather than auditioning for or portraying one as a shelf-life Hollywood movie star.


KP tweets Happy B'day to the Duchess of Sussex, who shares her birthday (August 4) with the former QE, the Queen Mother, and President Barack Obama. Great company to be in:
https://twitter.com/KensingtonRoyal/status/1025627895757070336


Conflicting reports in the media as usual re the Markles who need to go away, and maybe by now the media has decided not to give them a platform anymore, as one journalist hoped:
http://royalcentral.co.uk/blogs/the...h-better-than-how-she-has-been-treated-106756

https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-cu...ince-harry-meghan-dad-thomas-markle-on-board/ Huh? I doubt it.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/08/meghan-markle-dad-thomas-buckingham-palace.html Really? Not according to other reports:
https://www.wmagazine.com/story/meghan-markle-father-no-reconciliation

Great commentary:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/05/meghan-markle-royal-wedding-margo-jefferson

 

[Japanfan]

I cannot wear a completely flat shoe. Those super trendy little ballet flats are actually as bad for most people's feet as very high heels as they have zero support. I have high arches and the things will barely stay on my feet. I have found that a low wedge heel is actually the best for my feet. And that is an expert recommendation as well--low broad heels are better than flats for your feet.

https://www.whowhatwear.com/upsetting-facts-about-wearing-flats

Well, I've had never had any problems with my feet or my back.

My preferred footwear is sneakers or flat sandals. But I'll often wear a low broad heel when I go out for dinner or whatever, and do find them very comfortable.

I'm always barefoot at home, and when weather and circumstances permit, barefoot outside. I used to be able to handle rocks and gravel barefoot, actually, although my soles are no longer so tough as they once were.

When I see people wearing socks and shoes in nice weather, I am completely There is a touch of a country girl within me.

 

[Skittl1321]

I cannot wear a completely flat shoe. Those super trendy little ballet flats are actually as bad for most people's feet as very high heels as they have zero support. I have high arches and the things will barely stay on my feet. I have found that a low wedge heel is actually the best for my feet. And that is an expert recommendation as well--low broad heels are better than flats for your feet.

https://www.whowhatwear.com/upsetting-facts-about-wearing-flats

It's pretty easy to add arch supports to flat shoes. I pronate a lot without them, and it can cause some shin splints if I don't use them; but even the slightest heel aggravates my tendinitis in my ankles. So flats it is.

 

[MacMadame]

This article about Meghan Markle reminds me of a lot of the discussions in this thread:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...term=.a31607323a84&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

 

[mag]

I cannot wear a completely flat shoe. Those super trendy little ballet flats are actually as bad for most people's feet as very high heels as they have zero support. I have high arches and the things will barely stay on my feet. I have found that a low wedge heel is actually the best for my feet. And that is an expert recommendation as well--low broad heels are better than flats for your feet.

This is so me. I have high arches and a very narrow foot; ballet flats and cheap flip flops are agony for me! I also can’t imagine a 15 year old who doesn’t chose her own shoes.

 

[quartz]

All my footwear, with the exception of a pair of tan booties, and a just purchased pair of pewter boots, are black. The highest heel I have is two, maybe two and a half inches, and chunky. No high heels, and certainly not stilettos as my pudgy chubby legs are not the sort that such a shoe is meant to enhance.
My wardrobe is 85% black and full of ruffles and lace despite that apparently being a no-no for a bigger curvy woman, and I only ever dress for me. I don’t really plan my outfits, as I tend more to fling articles and layers of clothing, accessories, and jewellry about me and see how they end up. It’s one advantage to being a plus size girl - I can go bold and boisterous without being overpowered by my clothes.
I’m so glad I don’t have the sort of life that requires me to follow fashion rules and decorum as that would drive me bonkers. And probably also get me kicked out of all the fancy-people places.

 

[cygnus]

Most of the weddings I've gone had at least one or two guests in black. For some women, they think the look thinner in black, some just like the color. Whatever..it's not a big deal.

Wasn't grey a color of mourning?

Funerals that I've attended, including my mother's, had colors. The dress we picked out for viewing was a beautiful royal blue flowered dress with a white sweater. I want everyone to wear purple, loud purple, muted purple, whatever.

As for Meghan's dress, it is gorgeous in my opinion. The shoes are super cute.

There are some uptight dedicated haters of Meghan in this thread. Harry seems to be head over heels in love with her. His is the only one who's opinion Meghan should hear.

In Victorian times black was the colour of mourning, and would be worn for a certain amount of time, depending on the relationship to the deceased. After that one was in "half mourning" for another period of time, and one could wear grey or mauve. After that, if one wished, colours could be gradually introduced again. Some (like Queen Victoria, but she wasn't the only one by any means) wore full mourning for the rest of their lives, especially if widowed.

But grey and mauve weren't restricted to half mourning times by any means. And of course many cultures use white for mourning.

 

[Skittl1321]

There are countries where white is a color of mourning.
It's totally cultural. More western societies seem to be moving to "celebration of life" and asking people to wear colors.

It has been a long time since black was exclusively for widows. Probably half the guests at my wedding were in black, and that was over a decade ago. I've worn black to plenty of weddings. Meghan was in navy, but if she wasn't, I still think her dress was fine (when buttoned...poor thing. I'd hate for every little wardrobe malfunction to be international news)

 

[Kruss]

I know of some Italian women that wore black for a few years after their husband's died. A former co-worker wore black for over a year after her sister died. I went to the visitation for her sister and the majority of the Italian attendees were in black.

My Italian-born and raised grandmother was married to a much older man as part of an arranged marriage. I think she was fond of my grandfather, but he wasn't the love of her life. My grandmother hated the color black and her clothing was always beige or other colors. When my grandfather died, my grandmother wore full black for the first year after he died. On the first year anniversary, she put her black clothes away and said, "never again."

The dress she picked out for her own funeral was pink. We all wore pink, flowery and colorful clothing at her funeral because we knew she would have loved that. Other Italians in the family may have looked askance at us, but we knew we were honoring her in a way she would have appreciated.

For the funerals of my aunt and mother earlier this year, we wore blue - their favorite color.

 

[aftershocks]

This article about Meghan Markle reminds me of a lot of the discussions in this thread:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...term=.a31607323a84&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

Spot-on commentary! Thanks for sharing.

"Meghan Markle. Meghan Markle. I read stories about her and I think I'm supposed to believe that she's representative of all women, or our complicated notions about them... Doing the best she can while never quite getting it right."

Yep, that's the sticky wicket. Meghan is a very smart, articulate woman who once said that she does not want to be known as a 'lady who lunches.' Meghan is also a feminist and a girly girl, and she's said very eloquently to Larry King that "It's possible to embrace both!" In her old life that possibility was a piece of cake for her. As a member of the royal family surrounded by courtiers, ubers, haters, pap-tabs, leech relatives, nitpickers, and oglers 24/7, while having to shutter her social media accounts, temper her every utterance and defer to other members of her new family, it will be more of a daunting task for Meghan to embrace and share all of who she is, and to ace the possibilities. But probably if anyone can walk that tightrope successfully, it might be her. We have to wait and see. Meghan did happen to say when speaking of her friendship with Serena Williams: "We are alike in our endless ambition, and in our desire to exceed expectations."

I've seen a number of comments too about Meghan possibly changing the royal family, and showing everyone the possibilities for black women. Hardly likely on both counts! After the wedding, people (including Oprah) spoke about the ceremony having ushered in 'a cultural moment.' Maybe to a certain degree, but once again, we have to wait and see to what extent, and even to discover what that really means.

Patriarchy and old venerable institutions and traditions don't completely die out. They tend to rejuvenate in new forms, and the full truth of history is always hard to decipher from cultural myths and falsehoods. I think it might have been more of a cultural moment had a black woman minister given the wedding address. I'm kind of surprised the Queen's personal chaplain (a black woman*) was overlooked for that task. Surely she knows Meghan and Harry personally, whereas Bishop Curry does not. She beautifully recited a prayer, as did a Coptic minister (as suggested by Prince Charles, who also played a large role in the music selection). Unfortunately, Archbishop Welby thought he hit the nail on the head by inviting Bishop Curry from Chicago to give the wedding address. Sadly, no!

All told, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex are simply in love, and despite all the fairytale trappings involved, and all the noise and blather, it's not really a fairytale. It's just a rare and extraordinary love story, which I hope they will be able to protect and to nurture.


*The Queen's personal chaplain: Rose Josephine Hudson-Wilkin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Hudson-Wilkin

ETA:
Oh, and re the discussions about Meghan's height, this article claims she's 5' 6", which to me appears to be more accurate than 5' 7" https://www.aol.com/article/lifestyle/2018/08/08/meghan-markle-height-heels/23498429/ (William: 6' 3", Harry: 6' 1", Catherine: 5' 9")

 

[aftershocks]

After their summer break in Scotland, and visiting the Clooneys in Milan (apparently), the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will return to public view in London on August 29 for an appearance with Lin-Manuel Miranda at the London production of Hamilton. It will be a special gala performance of Hamilton, to benefit Harry's charity Sentebale. Meghan and Harry have seen Hamilton together previously in London. And Meghan has also seen the New York production of Hamilton.

In early September, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will appear at additional public events: WellChild Awards on September 4, and a gala music event on September 6 to aid Harry's military heroes initiatives. They are certainly remaining busy in what has been quite a busy year for them personally and in terms of their public & charitable endeavors.
https://twitter.com/KensingtonRoyal/status/1031555790694432768
http://madaboutmeghan.blogspot.com/

Prince Harry's birthday is September 15. Meghan and Harry will be leaving on a tour of Austrailia, New Zealand, Tonga, etc in late October. Princess Eugenie's wedding is scheduled for October 12 at St. George's Chapel, Windsor. No word yet on whether it will be televised.

 

[Vagabond]

Princess Eugenie's wedding is scheduled for October 12 at St. George's Chapel, Windsor. No word yet on whether it will be televised.

You will not be able to stay home, sister
You will not be able to plug in, turn on and drop out
You will not be able to lose yourself on biscuits and tea
Skip out for sherry during commercials
Because Eugenie's wedding will not be televised

 

[taf2002]

When will the Markles learn that giving public interviews will not help their cause? Now it's Thomas Jr complaining that his family hasn't been treated like Kate Middleton's extended family. Apparently Kate's uncle hasn't been exactly an upright citizen (drinking & physically fighting with his wife) yet he was invited to both William's & Harry's wedding. I don't get the British newspapers so I don't know if he gives interviews where he badmouths Kate and/or the family & then complains that he isn't treated as he should be. I would bet not.

Can't the Markles see that they have reached the point of no return? Who of us would invite a person back into our lives after the badmouthing in the press? Why can't Jr see that telling Harry not to marry Meghan guaranteed that he would not be invited to the wedding? Is he a complete idiot? Has he lived his life up to now without learning the lesson that your actions actually have consequences?

 

[mag]

Has he lived his life up to now without learning the lesson that your actions actually have consequences?

Probably has. It seems to be a very common problem.

 

[AxelAnnie]

When will the Markles learn that giving public interviews will not help their cause? Now it's Thomas Jr complaining that his family hasn't been treated like Kate Middleton's extended family. Apparently Kate's uncle hasn't been exactly an upright citizen (drinking & physically fighting with his wife) yet he was invited to both William's & Harry's wedding. I don't get the British newspapers so I don't know if he gives interviews where he badmouths Kate and/or the family & then complains that he isn't treated as he should be. I would bet not.

Can't the Markles see that they have reached the point of no return? Who of us would invite a person back into our lives after the badmouthing in the press? Why can't Jr see that telling Harry not to marry Meghan guaranteed that he would not be invited to the wedding? Is he a complete idiot? Has he lived his life up to now without learning the lesson that your actions actually have consequences?

Never. You are expecting WAY too much.

 

[aftershocks]

You will not be able to stay home, sister
You will not be able to plug in, turn on and drop out
You will not be able to lose yourself on biscuits and tea
Skip out for sherry during commercials
Because Eugenie's wedding will not be televised

Eh, most likely not. But we shall see in a year of royal wedding fever, and with a father in Prince Andrew who is known to want his daughters to be treated equally royally. Cameras will definitely be on the grounds, even if not in the church. Those who are interested will indeed see something, only if it's just the entering and exiting of the church, similar to what took place at Pippa Middleton's wedding in May 2017.

In any case, it's already been announced that Eugenie and Jack will be having an abbreviated royal carriage ride through the town of Windsor after the ceremony. There are apparently grumblings in some quarters about taxpayer costs, but there's always those grumblings. The royal family is paying for the wedding out of their own wealth, and Windsor is owned by the Queen. As usual, security costs are what comes out of taxpayer funds. Since most of the main royals will be attending the wedding at St. George's Chapel, security is as always, a necessity.

 

[PDilemma]

As usual, security costs are what comes out of taxpayer funds. Since most of the main royals will be attending the wedding at St. George's Chapel, security is as always, a necessity.

I don't know what people expect them to do to avoid security costs. Not have the family attend? Paying that out of pocket seems unreasonable. They were all born public figures because this is the government the country has. Not their choice actually.

 

[Lorac]

My guess is the coverage of Eugenie's wedding will be similar to the nuptials of Prince Edward and Sophie Rhys-Jones - the Count and Countess of Wessex. All the arrivals will be shown and the exit from the Chapel and carriage ride. The actual wedding itself will not be shown live on TV. Whether it is recorded is down to what Eugenie and her intended want so we may see snippets at later dates - or we may not. All the main royals will definitely attend - though it will be interesting to see if Prince Phillip makes it.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ So Edward's wedding was not televised live in 1999? I don't recall since I didn't watch. I have seen it recently though on Youtube, so it was recorded if it was not shown live in real time.

I don't know what people expect them to do to avoid security costs. Not have the family attend? Paying that out of pocket seems unreasonable. They were all born public figures because this is the government the country has. Not their choice actually.

^^ I agree with you, especially since the royals bring a great deal of tourism money to the U.K. With Meghan (Duchess of Sussex) joining the royal family, there has been heightened interest in Britain and the royals, which has led to a substantial boost to some sectors of the British economy.

OTOH, as an American, I don't have to worry about paying taxes for the royals myself. At the same time, I am more eager to plan for a vacation in the U.K.

 

[Parsley Sage]

Edward and Sophie's wedding was televised in Canada. I'm not expecting to see much more than Eugenie and Andrew entering the church and Eugenie and Jack leaving the church, possibly with the Royal Family and Jack's immediate family on the steps waving them off.

 

[aftershocks]

Trevor Noah stand-up on the royal wedding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njfl_bwFBoI