Royalty thread #15: A New Era

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skategal

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cygnus

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Shilling coins with the portrait of George VI were in common circulation thirty years after his death even though the country had decimalized its currency a decade before.
I still occasionally get a George VI coin in my change (although fewer now that we don't have pennies in Canada). Maybe 10 years ago I had a George V coin. I kept it.
 

puglover

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Not sure where to go with my feelings. I am so sad that less than 3 months after the death of the most incredible woman to live during my lifetime, the very things she devoted her life to - family and duty - seem so ignored and underrated. I have often wondered how the young girl, Elizabeth, felt when suddenly at age 10 the course of her whole life changed and it was largely due to the abdication of her uncle, not by her own choice, that she sat on the throne for 70 years. We understand that her uncle, Edward, was the more popular of the two brothers with Albert, a nervous child, often ill, with a stutter and yet he bravely accepted the throne in the place of his more charismatic brother. How either of them felt about this huge change of plan, we don't know but we do know Elizabeth on her 21st birthday stated "I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong". Few will ever argue against her constancy, stability, sense of duty, devotion and direction. She held things together and taught several generations the importance of history, tradition and duty. During times of great personal turmoil and social change, her beloved family was centre stage, and aside from her most telling comment "1992 is not a year on which I shall look back with undiluted pleasure. In the words of one of my more sympathetic correspondents - It has turned out to be a "Annus Horribills" she held it together. We know she was working up to the day of her death, after how many prime ministers, and I have read that they soon learned you had better have read the documents of the day because she always had". Change and progress is good and so we move forward but I am so blessed to have occupied this planet at the same time as her.
 

barbk

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That coat & hat the Princess of Wales wore to church today would have been perfect for the Elpheba in Wicked. Not a great or cheery color.
 

Karen-W

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kwanfan1818

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How many people examine their privilege that they get as a result of "things that happened" before their time/not their fault/my family was getting the crap beat out of them in [pick country] when slavery/empire/genocide happened, or examine the source of philanthropy or honors?

To me it's a good thing when people make the realization.
 

attyfan

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Separate bathrooms -- easily obtainable when you are royalty -- as the key to marital happiness:

 

taf2002

Fluff up your tutu & dance away.....
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MsZem

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Lady Susan Hussey joins royal family for church. But they aren't a racist family, oh no.
Susan Hussey was removed from her official position and apologized in person to Ngozi Fulani. I'm not sure how her going to church with members of the BRF in a private capacity is an indication of racism.

Let's check in with the Dutch royals instead:
 

Barbara Manatee

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I guess Meghan and Harry aren't allies then either?

The Prince said: "I'm very happy for Ngozi Fulani to be invited into the palace to sit down with Lady Susan Hussey and to reconcile, because Meghan and I love Susan Hussey. She thinks she's great".

The father-of-two continued: "And I also know that what she meant – she never meant any harm at all.

Lady Susan said stupid things, apologized, and is trying to understand why she was wrong and to do better. Isn't that exactly what we want people to do and how new allies are created? We can't forever shun every person who has ever said or done something offensive out of ignorance or inexperience or thoughtlessness, because frankly that's everyone. Including me.
 

SkateSand

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Separate bathrooms -- easily obtainable when you are royalty -- as the key to marital happiness:

I agree! :lol: My husband and I have always had separate bathrooms (and will again), but living in an RV with only one tiny bathroom has been trying. :p
 

Barbara Manatee

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Is there a generally accepted definition for ally in this context? I've always thought that allies can be both group members and outsiders.
 

MacMadame

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Is there a generally accepted definition for ally in this context? I've always thought that allies can be both group members and outsiders.
Think of LGBTQ+ people. Can a gay man be an ally? That makes no sense to me. An ally of who? himself?

Or think of a mutual allyship like NATO. Right now Ukraine and the US are allies of each other. But the US isn't an ally of the US. And vice versa.
 

Barbara Manatee

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I think a gay man could easily be an ally or a foe of other gay men or other members of the LGBTQ+ community. No group is a monolith with identical views or goals.

Regardless of that definition, though - is your position that someone who says something racist once is so irredeemably tainted that well-intentioned people can never associate with her again?
 

Vagabond

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Lady Susan Hussey joins royal family for church. But they aren't a racist family, oh no.
I admit to not being as learned in Chistian teachings as I could be, but my understanding of Matthew 7:1 is that it means one should not judge others without being prepared to be judged by one's own standards. That seems applicable here.

Speaking of the Sermon on the Mount, it also contains a lot about forgiving people for their mistakes. :shuffle:

Be that as it may, I don't understand why we should reject friendships with those who are not perfect in every respect. What an isolated life that would be!


I am gifting this article. The link will be valid for two weeks.

Here is a snippet:

It might be the strangest friendship in Washington.

He’s a well-known Christian conservative who speaks out against gay marriage and abortion. She’s a former civil rights lawyer who has spent much of her career fighting to desegregate schools and protect transgender kids from bullying.
 

MacMadame

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I think a gay man could easily be an ally or a foe of other gay men or other members of the LGBTQ+ community. No group is a monolith with identical views or goals.
He can be supportive. But if you said Chase Bono is an ally to transpeople, most people would respond with :huh:

Regardless of that definition, though - is your position that someone who says something racist once is so irredeemably tainted that well-intentioned people can never associate with her again?
Strawman argument. Especially given the context.

For one thing, the particular lady in question has not shown any understanding of what she did and why it was wrong.

Also, I was speaking broader than that. For example, Stephen Fry claims to be an ally of trans people. But has made a point that he won't abandon his friend JK Rowling and do events with her in a chummy way. I know plenty of trans people who think that disqualifies him from true allyship. There are other examples like this.

I don't think The Firm has done much of anything to show they are an ally of POC and this incident doesn't change my view on that.
 

Barbara Manatee

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I don't believe I exaggerated your argument - you did describe the BRF walking to church with Lady Hussey as them hanging out with racists, which disqualified them as allies.

Still, there's no doubt the Firm has a lot of work to do. We agree on that.
 

MacMadame

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I don't believe I exaggerated your argument - you did describe the BRF walking to church with Lady Hussey as them hanging out with racists, which disqualified them as allies.
But I never said anything about racists not being to reform and change and will be persona non grata forever.
 

taf2002

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I guess Meghan and Harry aren't allies then either?



Lady Susan said stupid things, apologized, and is trying to understand why she was wrong and to do better. Isn't that exactly what we want people to do and how new allies are created? We can't forever shun every person who has ever said or done something offensive out of ignorance or inexperience or thoughtlessness, because frankly that's everyone. Including me.
Lady Susan said a stupid thing, then said it over & over again. IOW she harassed the POC she was talking to because the lady wouldn't tell her what "foreign" country she was from. She was black so in Lady Susan's mind she couldn't be British. That's racist. The fact that you think she still doesn't understand what she did wrong makes her toxic in my mind.

I put up with similar hateful events in my own family only because they are family. If they were not I would have nothing to do with them. I don't cut non-perfect people out of my life (I'm not perfect) but I don't surround myself with toxic people either if I can help it. The fact that the BRF almost immediately welcomed her into the fold right after this incident says a lot.
 

MsZem

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For one thing, the particular lady in question has not shown any understanding of what she did and why it was wrong.
Susan Hussey apologized to Ngozi Fulani in person. I am not sure how else she's supposed to show that she understood what she did was wrong.

Lady Susan said a stupid thing, then said it over & over again. IOW she harassed the POC she was talking to because the lady wouldn't tell her what "foreign" country she was from. She was black so in Lady Susan's mind she couldn't be British. That's racist. The fact that you think she still doesn't understand what she did wrong makes her toxic in my mind.
It was a single incident (which involved repeated questions). She has, presumably, learned why it was unacceptable to interrogate someone like that, and will do better in the future.

Can we maybe have a single thread for the discussion of whether or not the BRF is racist?
 
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