Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

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Or maybe they can scale back on some of the engagements Royals are expected to be at?

Couple things at play here. I think some organizations rely on royal patronages to legitimize them in a way, and certainly to raise awareness as well as the connections and opportunities that come with it. It's also a way to attract more volunteers and financial support because people might get to meet a royal along the way, and that's also a great way to thank your supporters.

I also think, along with duty as is so important to the Queen, it's a way of keeping the monarchy relevant in the daily lives of her subjects. Same reason they go on international tours, because really, why bother?

I remember watching this cheesy Royal Family special on Netflix years ago that had an episode about Harry and William, and I swear, some of the interviewees they had were like editors of Tiger Beat or something. They were like in love with the duality of personalities and in love with Harry being a bit naughty and stuff. It all seemed so immature and these were grown ass women talking like lovelorn tweens, so I wonder if there's some backlash towards either of the wives stemming from that as well.

I think this is a huge part of it. Eligible bachelor princes are a lot more fun than married ones, because the fantasy is that much more possible in a twisted kind of way.

Plus, as I said earlier, there's a certain sense of ownership by the public when it comes to the Royal Family, especially you know, those poor boys who went through a nasty divorce of their parents and then the death of their sainted mother, so of course no one is good enough for them.
 
Re: Harry’s wealth

I read something yesterday that both William and Harry would have inherited about $16 million each from Diana (from a trust) when they turned 30.

It's also possible that they inherited from their Grandfather Spencer (the former Earl) when he passed.

So that would be some of the estimate of their wealth.
 
@canbelto That is an interesting read. They do a bit of cherry picking though.

“The British press, having attacked the couple continuously, now reacts with shock at this move. But the clues have been there for some time for anyone willing to read them.

There was the decision not to give Archie a title from birth — something that is expected among royal children of this rank but which Meghan and Harry appear to have chosen to avoid. Then there were the rumors last spring that they might relocate to a country in southern Africa.”

The British press have also given them a lot of fawning coverage. A bunch of article about how Meghan is “breaking the rules” (said as a compliment) and “modernizing the Monarchy. The same kind over coverage Diana, Sarah, and Kate got. You could almost just interchange the names. Yes, there has been a bunch of racism and that needs to be called out, but it has not all been race based. Furthermore, skewing facts like in the second paragraph (Anne’s kids don’t have titles and Anne is in a similar position to Harry,) and Edward’s kids have only curtesy titles, so H&M not asking the Queen for a title for Archie is not really ground breaking. In fact I would argue it was actually expected.

The article also does not mention any of the questionable decisions made by H&M that have contributed to their coverage in the press. Calling out bad or questionable decisions is what the press are expected to do.

@MacMadame I totally get that families are complicated and even small stuff can spiral out of control. People are inherently messy! The thing that I find slightly odd is that not one relative, other than Meghan’s mother, was at the wedding. Not one cousin, aunt, uncle, anyone from either side. Add that to Meghan’s statement about no one asking how she is doing. No friends close enough to be calling or texting regularly during her first year of motherhood? People seem willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on baby showers and flying H&M in private jets, they are willing to speak to the press, they apparently know enough about her relationship with her dad to slag him in People, but they don’t check in on the new mom?

The situation just seems weird to me. It just doesn’t add up. What about all of Harry’s friends? Surely he has close friends who are now friends with both Harry and Meghan. Again, no one checking in? It is this seemingly isolated existence along with the move to distance themselves from the only extended family Archie has, that seems, I don’t know, odd, for lack of a better word.

To be clear, H&M should absolutely do what they want. I am questioning how they are doing it and the appearance, at least, that what they are doing doesn’t really seem to address the problems they have stated they are having.
 
I imagine the Queen is annoyed because in many ways the monarchy is a business. It owns property, it has employees, and it has lots of interactions with other organizations. If H&M want to step back from royal duties, that has implications for the workload and responsibilities of the other royals.

It sounds like H&M were frustrated and that's why they went public, but since the Queen is the "boss", it would have been preferable to work out in advance with her what "stepping back" means, and how whatever they didn't want to do would be covered.
 
None of these people worked for them nor were paid by the Crown.

If they were working at the palace it really isn't relevant who was paying them - they owe confidentiality to the family whose property they are working in.

I know this because I know that people who make deliveries to royal palaces are required to sign non disclosure agreements and all sorts ahead of doing so. The idea that people working in the palace/castle are required to do any less or that it's ok for someone working in the palace/castle to speak freely like this in front of anyone (regardless of nationality) outside the household is ridiculous.
 
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Speaking as someone from a dysfunctional family, it's complicated. The problem starts with two people having a problem with each other and then people take sides and it expands from there. Or there is one or two really toxic people and then disagreement about how to handle that. So some family members distance themselves from the toxic person and other family members object ("but they are family!") and again it expands from there.
"All functional families are alike; each dysfunctional family is dysfunctional in its own way." -- Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
 
There is an article that Charles "is incandescent with rage" at the announcement. It was on Yahoo News. Take that with the seriousness it deserves.
 
Bit envious of anyone who posits "but they're family!" to situations like this, and others that are complicated. Family is actually not the be all and end all, despite how supremely important it is. Hell, look at families like the Duggars or different Polygamist families TLC tries to charm us with-- you could avoid talking to certain siblings/kids for weeks if you wanted to! Family is not the same thing to everyone, nor is any family what it seems. Everyone puts on a good show for social media-- the BRF aren't alone in that-- despite everyone having decidedly imperfect lives at home.

I'm a fan of Lainey Gossip's take on the timing (she has two other articles about finances, etc.). She's been generally good about leaving Kate out of it for the most part, which I think is fair. I would love to be "besties" with my SIL, but life gets in the way. I don't care for her or support her any less, and I'd like to believe Kate is the same. But as privileged as she is, I bet she doesn't make a lot of decisions for the Firm. For my money, this comes down to Harry & William, and an ancient institution that seems more and more ridiculous to keep around with every scandal. Harry has never played things straight with any of his roles, and after growing pains where he was supremely stupid/ignorant at times, he's channeled it into great work and PR for his family. But that was then, and a lot more has changed than just his marriage/family.

Lainey has a bit of an inside track to Meghan, or has at times, through connections to Jessica Mulroney. Mulroney's twin boys were in the Sussex wedding party. No idea if she's a lovely person or if they're two famewhores in a friend-pod, but from my understanding she and Meghan are very close. Sometimes chosen family is as important-- if not more-- than those who may have bred us. If H&M have to go to North America to get the support they need, as Will & Kate do from the Middletons, then so be it.
 
Re royal patronages, I have a couple of UK friends who work at organizations with Royal patrons. FWIW their experiences with the patrons are varied. Some patrons just show up for ceremonies and are not very enthusiastic about it either. But some are genuinely interested in what the organization does, and, as @Jenny mentioned, can be a huge asset for fundraising, getting volunteers, and raising the group's profile. They can also use their social networks to help make things happen, e.g. they meet someone at a reception and find out that person is doing something related to what the group does, and they give that person the group's contact info and say "tell them I sent you".

But how successful the patronage is really seems to depend on matching the right person with the right group. Not everyone in the Royals (or in any family for that matter) is going to be interested in everything that not-for-profit and community groups do, and I'm sure that some Royals get assigned to patronages that are of no interest to them at all. But representing "the firm" and helping the group out in some way just by being there is part of the work of being Royal, I guess.
 
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Bit envious of anyone who posits "but they're family!" to situations like this, and others that are complicated. Family is actually not the be all and end all, despite how supremely important it is. Hell, look at families like the Duggars or different Polygamist families TLC tries to charm us with-- you could avoid talking to certain siblings/kids for weeks if you wanted to! Family is not the same thing to everyone, nor is any family what it seems. Everyone puts on a good show for social media-- the BRF aren't alone in that-- despite everyone having decidedly imperfect lives at home.

I'm a fan of Lainey Gossip's take on the timing (she has two other articles about finances, etc.). She's been generally good about leaving Kate out of it for the most part, which I think is fair. I would love to be "besties" with my SIL, but life gets in the way. I don't care for her or support her any less, and I'd like to believe Kate is the same. But as privileged as she is, I bet she doesn't make a lot of decisions for the Firm. For my money, this comes down to Harry & William, and an ancient institution that seems more and more ridiculous to keep around with every scandal. Harry has never played things straight with any of his roles, and after growing pains where he was supremely stupid/ignorant at times, he's channeled it into great work and PR for his family. But that was then, and a lot more has changed than just his marriage/family.

Lainey has a bit of an inside track to Meghan, or has at times, through connections to Jessica Mulroney. Mulroney's twin boys were in the Sussex wedding party. No idea if she's a lovely person or if they're two famewhores in a friend-pod, but from my understanding she and Meghan are very close. Sometimes chosen family is as important-- if not more-- than those who may have bred us. If H&M have to go to North America to get the support they need, as Will & Kate do from the Middletons, then so be it.

Thanks for the link to Lainey's gossip. Soooooo Dan Wooton and William's press secretary eh? That makes total sense to me. I wondered why we keep getting these leaks about William's concern and even today about William's people asking for a meeting post Africa interview. Not necessarily coming from Dan himself but if this is true then I'm sure he's farming out the leaks to his cronies. What a tawdry affair this all is.
 
Here is a another interview. This time with a guy who has been around Harry most of Harry’s life and is a Royal photographer. Other than when he says he hasn’t seen any racism (I think he means in his paper, and he is probably not on social media) it is a bit heart wrenching. He clearly feels for Harry and Meghan and at the end says he would give them the same advice he would give his kids. He also has a interesting perspective and confirms what has been previously reported about how Meghan has made no effort to get to know any of the Royal Press Corp.

https://youtu.be/iCRy5aaNkus
 
Interesting debate just now on BBC Newsnight. Mostly agreeing that this should now be turned into a positive exciting new phase for the royal family and that it is possible for H&M to carve out a new role abroad that supports the Queen; largely travelling throughout the Commonwealth.

Royal biographer Robert Lacey was on the panel and was actually quite reasonable until he took black singer Jamelia to task about racism claiming that Britain was much better than other places regarding racism. Jamelia hit back regarding covert racism which his straight white upper-middle class privileged male self couldn't quite comprehend.

Renowned royal historian Kate Williams said this will go down in history as a time.of seismic change for the monarchy but also as the time when Britain as a society ran the Duchess of Sussex out of the country; quite literally because Meghan has already left and flown back to Canada. Can't say I blame her either.
 
@mag that interview was interesting. The guy's perspective of Harry pre-and-post marriage however doesn't jibe with reports that for years both William and Harry were frosty to the press. Maybe he's talking about the fact that Harry probably had a few "favorite" Royal reporters from the Sun and other newspapers that he had a good relationship with?

I do think that a lot of the coverage of Meghan was disgustingly racist. Piers Morgan and the Daily Mail are the chief offenders. If I have to think of a "Waterloo" point for Meghan though I do think it was the way the whole situation with Thomas Markle and the wedding was handled. In Hollywood having the press photograph "big" moments like getting fitted for a tux isn't that serious. Her response (the ghosting, dis-inviting from the wedding) was poorly handled and I do wonder if the whole thing wouldn;t have gotten off on a better foot had there been that shot of Thomas and Doria at the wedding. Even if they became distant I think the "Markle family show" likely would have dissipated.
 
...as the time when Britain as a society ran the Duchess of Sussex out of the country; quite literally because Meghan has already left and flown back to Canada. Can't say I blame her either.

Yup, it's being reported by Omid Scobie and Emily Andrews on Twitter that they left Archie in Canada and Meghan has already flown back to be with him while Harry sorts things out. (And caused the BA flight she was on to leave 30 min late.)

Kind of destroys the narrative that they just HAD to release their statement and roll out their new website yesterday to get ahead of The Sun's exclusive. If I was a British taxpayer, I would be wishing them both good riddance right now.
 
@mag that interview was interesting. The guy's perspective of Harry pre-and-post marriage however doesn't jibe with reports that for years both William and Harry were frosty to the press. Maybe he's talking about the fact that Harry probably had a few "favorite" Royal reporters from the Sun and other newspapers that he had a good relationship with?

I do think that a lot of the coverage of Meghan was disgustingly racist. Piers Morgan and the Daily Mail are the chief offenders. If I have to think of a "Waterloo" point for Meghan though I do think it was the way the whole situation with Thomas Markle and the wedding was handled. In Hollywood having the press photograph "big" moments like getting fitted for a tux isn't that serious. Her response (the ghosting, dis-inviting from the wedding) was poorly handled and I do wonder if the whole thing wouldn;t have gotten off on a better foot had there been that shot of Thomas and Doria at the wedding. Even if they became distant I think the "Markle family show" likely would have dissipated.

I'm not so sure... If poor behaviour is "rewarded" why would it stop? Even so was it not he who announced he was unwell and could not attend in the aftermath? I must admit I haven't paid him much attention since then. Did he claim in one of his interviews to have been dis-invited?
 
Royal biographer Robert Lacey was on the panel and was actually quite reasonable until he took black singer Jamelia to task about racism claiming that Britain was much better than other places regarding racism. Jamelia hit back regarding covert racism which his straight white upper-middle class privileged male self couldn't quite comprehend.

He said WHAT?!?! :eek:
Even if you agree that Britain is less racist than other places (which I don't; go Jamelia :respec:) I would think he would want Britain to be not racist at all.
 
If I was a British taxpayer, I would be wishing them both good riddance right now.

I kind of hate to say it, but my first thought on hearing the "stepping back" news was that maybe they should "step back" only after they repay the cost of their home renovations and their wedding....
 
Yup, it's being reported by Omid Scobie and Emily Andrews on Twitter that they left Archie in Canada and Meghan has already flown back to be with him while Harry sorts things out. (And caused the BA flight she was on to leave 30 min late.)

Kind of destroys the narrative that they just HAD to release their statement and roll out their new website yesterday to get ahead of The Sun's exclusive. If I was a British taxpayer, I would be wishing them both good riddance right now.

Oh no! 30 minutes late? How will they all cope? God forbid she got stuck in London's infernal traffic or anything. It has to be because she's a pushy little madam who wants to keep everyone waiting all the time. What a load of old shit.

And whose narrative was that? Where did H&M say that is why they released it? Seriously I would take ANYTHING that the British press says - pro or against - with a very large grain of salt. All of this is just supposition on our parts. And thankfully for you you're not a British taxpayer so no need to trouble yourself is there? ;)
 
He said WHAT?!?! :eek:
Even if you agree that Britain is less racist than other places (which I don't; go Jamelia :respec:) I would think he would want Britain to be not racist at all.

Jamelia was saying that Britain was racist - truth - and he disagrees and his only argument was that it wasn't as bad as other places. He also said that racism only appeared towards Meghan on social media but that the press wasn't racist and he'd like to see evidence of it. That's when Jamelia pulled covert racism on him and wiped the floor with him basically. :)
 
Oh no! 30 minutes late? How will they all cope? God forbid she got stuck in London's infernal traffic or anything. It has to be because she's a pushy little madam who wants to keep everyone waiting all the time. What a load of old shit.

And whose narrative was that? Where did H&M say that is why they released it? Seriously I would take ANYTHING that the British press says - pro or against - with a very large grain of salt. All of this is just supposition on our parts. And thankfully for you you're not a British taxpayer so no need to trouble yourself is there? ;)
Except that Frogmore Cottage is practically next door to Heathrow, so please don't blame London traffic.

Did I mention that she was driven directly to the plane and the reason for the delay was needing to load her luggage. I have to wonder just how much luggage she needed for what was clearly intended to be a short, 4-day trip to the UK and then back to Canada when 1) she had been there for 6 weeks already and could have left most of the luggage she took on the initial flight there, and 2) she surely has plenty more clothing and accessories in her closet at Frogmore Cottage. Seriously, what would she need more than a carryon?
 
Except that Frogmore Cottage is practically next door to Heathrow, so please don't blame London traffic.

Did I mention that she was driven directly to the plane and the reason for the delay was needing to load her luggage. I have to wonder just how much luggage she needed for what was clearly intended to be a short, 4-day trip to the UK and then back to Canada when 1) she had been there for 6 weeks already and could have left most of the luggage she took on the initial flight there, and 2) she surely has plenty more clothing and accessories in her closet at Frogmore Cottage. Seriously, what would she need more than a carryon?

So you work in baggage handling at Heathrow? Obviously you wouldn't be so foolish as to read a tweet and take it as verbatim would you. Plenty of time for the flight to catch up 30 minutes on its way to Canada. Not such a huge drama after all. And maybe she had spent yesterday packing up a load of stuff from Frogmore? I don't see her coming back to Britain any time.soon.

ETA: all royals are driven straight to the plane. Nothing unusual there, no diva demands, just security protocol.
 
Oh no! 30 minutes late? How will they all cope? God forbid she got stuck in London's infernal traffic or anything. It has to be because she's a pushy little madam who wants to keep everyone waiting all the time. What a load of old shit.

It is this kind of response that bugs me. The flight was either 30 minutes late because it waited for Meghan, or it wasn’t. If it was, it doesn’t matter the reason. A fact is a fact. Stating that fact is just that, stating. If BA is not in the habit of holding flights for regular people who happen to get stuck in traffic or whatever, then they held it because of who she is. That is a privilege most of us don’t have and one she, and anyone else who has it, should be grateful for. I have no idea if Meghan is grateful or not, but someone stating that fact shouldn’t get jumped on. Also, 30 minutes could make someone miss a connection. If the flight was going to Toronto I can assure you people every second of connection time. Those people, if there were any, may not have been pleased that someone, who has a police escort and lots of staff helping them get ready, couldn’t get their $hit together to be on time.

All of that is assuming she did actually make the flight 30 late.

By the way, if you are sitting on the right side of the plane you can see the baggage being loaded.
 


[USER=2284]@AxelAnnie
, on what do you base your character assassination? You KNOW "Meghan wants to have her cake and eat it too. When she discovered she did not have the status she thought due her, she was never going to be on equal footing with W/K I expect she was (stupidly) shocked.

She thought she could have continue to be play lavishly with the Hollywood set, and be a Royal when it was convenient. Doesn't work that way."

All the news coverage.
 
It is this kind of response that bugs me. The flight was either 30 minutes late because it waited for Meghan, or it wasn’t. If it was, it doesn’t matter the reason. A fact is a fact. Stating that fact is just that, stating. If BA is not in the habit of holding flights for regular people who happen to get stuck in traffic or whatever, then they held it because of who she is. That is a privilege most of us don’t have and one she, and anyone else who has it, should be grateful for. I have no idea if Meghan is grateful or not, but someone stating that fact shouldn’t get jumped on. Also, 30 minutes could make someone miss a connection. If the flight was going to Toronto I can assure you people every second of connection time. Those people, if there were any, may not have been pleased that someone, who has a police escort and lots of staff helping them get ready, couldn’t get their $hit together to be on time.

All of that is assuming she did actually make the flight 30 late.

By the way, if you are sitting on the right side of the plane you can see the baggage being loaded.

If that bugs you, then you should probably go see someone about stressors because in the grand scheme of things...... ;)

My highly sarcastic post - so sue me, I'm British I was born sarcastic- was in reply to an implied narrative that Meghan had held the plane up when it transpires that she was actually there but allegedly her luggage being loaded is what caused the delay. And that could be down to poor baggage handling or packing in the hold or anything. But of course rationale doesn't necessarily come into play with the popular Meghan narrative.
 
So you work in baggage handling at Heathrow? Obviously you wouldn't be so foolish as to read a tweet and take it as verbatim would you. Plenty of time for the flight to catch up 30 minutes on its way to Canada. Not such a huge drama after all. And maybe she had spent yesterday packing up a load of stuff from Frogmore? I don't see her coming back to Britain any time.soon.

ETA: all royals are driven straight to the plane. Nothing unusual there, no diva demands, just security protocol.
No, I don't see her coming back to Britain any time soon either, and that is truly tragic. I am sure Harry knows the consequences of what he and Meghan are doing but it seems pretty clear to me that he is now estranged from his father, his brother, and his extended paternal family. I've been through the receiving end of that type of situation and it is heartbreaking - much moreso for my mother when her youngest was being poisoned against her than it was for me because my brother and I haven't ever been terribly close. I can only imagine how the family must be feeling at this time, especially William because he and Harry have always had such a close bond. That this is playing out for the entire world to see, with the media snapping pics of truly minor royals like Eugenie driving in and out of the KP grounds where she has her home, only makes the situation even harder to watch. I hope Harry can find the peace of mind and heart he desperately desires.
 
I'm really shocked at the reaction in the "Daily Fail." What did people think a slimmed down monarchy was going to look like?

This is all being portrayed as Harry's decision, or even worse, MM's 'diabolical' influence.

But Charles is the one who wants a slimmed down monarchy, and the 'Megxit' seems a necessary part of that.

As for not coordinating with the Queen, well, if they aren't part of the monarchy, why should they? Why should their family expect them to?

Prince Charles' Duchy is their major source of income, and he was furious with them Prince Charles may want to do whatever he wants........but he is not yet in charge. So Megxit may have been part of his plan.....but right now, his plan means nothing.

And as to coordinating with the Queen...............it is called respect.
Respect for the monarchy, respect for the Queen, and Harry's respect for the people and institutions that have given him all that he has.

Everything they want(ed) was attainable with patience and respect. But no, they just had to give it all the middle finger. I just don't get why.
 
If that bugs you, then you should probably go see someone about stressors because in the grand scheme of things...... ;)

My highly sarcastic post - so sue me, I'm British I was born sarcastic- was in reply to an implied narrative that Meghan had held the plane up when it transpires that she was actually there but allegedly her luggage being loaded is what caused the delay. And that could be down to poor baggage handling or packing in the hold or anything. But of course rationale doesn't necessarily come into play with the popular Meghan narrative.
Grow up.
 
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