Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

[Coco]

I'm really shocked at the reaction in the "Daily Fail." What did people think a slimmed down monarchy was going to look like?

This is all being portrayed as Harry's decision, or even worse, MM's 'diabolical' influence.

But Charles is the one who wants a slimmed down monarchy, and the 'Megxit' seems a necessary part of that.

As for not coordinating with the Queen, well, if they aren't part of the monarchy, why should they? Why should their family expect them to?

 

[floskate]

I'm really shocked at the reaction in the "Daily Fail." What did people think a slimmed down monarchy was going to look like?

This is all being portrayed as Harry's decision, or even worse, MM's 'diabolical' influence.

But Charles is the one who wants a slimmed down monarchy, and the 'Megxit' seems a necessary part of that.

As for not coordinating with the Queen, well, if they aren't part of the monarchy, why should they? Why should their family expect them to?

Because Royal family innit? She hasn't been consulted a lot in the past few months it seems - certainly not since Geidt's ousting.

News reporting tonight that the palace is working 'apace' to come to a solution in days not weeks. So the grenade worked didn't it? Completely forced the hand of the grey men in suits. But they've still managed to leak that apparently Wills requested a meeting with Harry after the Africa interview which didn't end up happening. Well duh, he's your brother just go round and talk!!!!

 

[attyfan]

I'm really shocked at the reaction in the "Daily Fail." What did people think a slimmed down monarchy was going to look like?
...

ITA! I think the royals need to realize that there is no longer a place for the "spare" -- the days when younger sons of monarchs (or heirs) might inherit (Edward II was actually a fourth son -- his three elder brothers died early) or could rule distant lands (a younger brother of Henry V was regent in France) or would lead troops into battle are long gone. William and Kate need to be as supportive as possible, just to increase the options available in the future to Charlotte and Louis.

 

[Karen-W]

Because Royal family innit? She hasn't been consulted a lot in the past few months it seems - certainly not since Geidt's ousting.

News reporting tonight that the palace is working 'apace' to come to a solution in days not weeks. So the grenade worked didn't it? Completely forced the hand of the grey men in suits. But they've still managed to leak that apparently Wills requested a meeting with Harry after the Africa interview which didn't end up happening. Well duh, he's your brother just go round and talk!!!!

Just want to point out, as someone who has been estranged from a sibling for a period of a few years (luckily we are in touch now), sometimes it doesn't matter how often you reach out if the other person ignores you or, worse, blocks you. We don't know what is really happening with William and Harry's relationship at the moment but it is possible that Harry rejected any overtures from William.

 

[mella]

Just want to point out, as someone who has been estranged from a sibling for a period of a few years (luckily we are in touch now), sometimes it doesn't matter how often you reach out if the other person ignores you or, worse, blocks you. We don't know what is really happening with William and Harry's relationship at the moment but it is possible that Harry rejected any overtures from William.

I read courtiers prevented a meeting between Harry and queen at Sandringham... if that's the case... that backfired!

 

[MsZem]

This piece points out that recent PR moves from the Queen and Charles (the pictures on the table during the Queen's speech, the Queen-and-her-3-heirs statement pic) made clear that the Sussexes were somewhat of an afterthought to the Queen's and Charles's vision of the royalty's future.

I hope Harry isn't so insecure as to be affected by that. The Queen has quite a few other children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren who were not pictured, either. I've seen similar "sovereign and heirs" portraits in Sweden and Norway. Carl-Philip - who was originally the heir to the throne - doesn't seem to take it as a slight, and as for Martha Louise, I'm sure she's happy not having too many royal obligations.

I hope Harry has supportive people in his life in addition to Meghan. It seems to me like he could use some good friends and family members in his corner.

ITA! I think the royals need to realize that there is no longer a place for the "spare" -- the days when younger sons of monarchs (or heirs) might inherit (Edward II was actually a fourth son -- his three elder brothers died early) or could rule distant lands (a younger brother of Henry V was regent in France) or would lead troops into battle are long gone. William and Kate need to be as supportive as possible, just to increase the options available in the future to Charlotte and Louis.

The BRF has a lot of patronages and charitable initiatives and engagements, which require more than just a handful of people to keep going. Even a streamlined monarchy would presumably include more than just Charles, William and Kate; it'll be years before the Cambridge kids are old enough to do engagements.

In the past year or so I've been seeing a lot about how William and Kate should be more supportive of Harry and Meghan, and less so about the obligation in the other direction. The Cambridges are going to have a very privileged life, but also one much more circumscribed and tradition-driven than what Harry and Meghan can do, and with more of an obligation to be in the public eye. They can't just sign off. That's not easy, either.

Family members should support each other unless there are toxic personalities involved, which is certainly not the case here. Whatever the differences between Harry and William, I hope they can get past them.

 

[Karen-W]

I read courtiers prevented a meeting between Harry and queen at Sandringham... if that's the case... that backfired!

I read the same, but I also saw an article in the Evening Standard that indicated the Queen told Harry she would meet with him after he and Charles worked out all the details of the exit plan. So, my interpretation of the "courtiers blocked a meeting" is they were acting on the Queen's orders, but it was being spun in the initial article as "those evil men in grey suits strike again!"

 

[mag]

Everything I have ever read about Charles’ plan for a slimmed down Monarchy included Harry. Slimmed down seem to refer to not having the Yorks, Glousters, and Kents being involved as much in public life or receiving money from the civil list or taxpayer funded security officers.

Any suggestion that H&M were just doing what Charles wanted is ridiculous. The people this will affect most are George, Charlotte, and Louis. They will not get the same freedom William and especially Harry did growing up and pursuing work other than royal duties. For now Anne, Edward, and Sophie will pick up the slack, but they are not spring chickens. They will eventually scale back. Without H&M picking up a wack of Royal duties, the Cambridge kids will end up doing more earlier.

 

[Karen-W]

Everything I have ever read about Charles’ plan for a slimmed down Monarchy included Harry. Slimmed down seem to refer to not having the Yorks, Glousters, and Kents being involved as much in public life or receiving money from the civil list or taxpayer funded security officers.

Any suggestion that H&M were just doing what Charles wanted is ridiculous. The people this will affect most are George, Charlotte, and Louis. They will not get the same freedom William and especially Harry did growing up and pursuing work other than royal duties. For now Anne, Edward, and Sophie will pick up the slack, but they are not spring chickens. They will eventually scale back. Without H&M picking up a wack of Royal duties, the Cambridge kids will end up doing more earlier.

Or we will see Beatrice and Eugenie drafted into service, or possibly a change for Louise and James.

 

[becca]

I don’t see why not letting Andrew’s daughters pick up some of the slack I hear they would like to. If it’s something Harry doesn’t want to do.

I don’t see the problem with the photo it was a cute photo of future monarchs which is different than the role Harry and Meghan were taking on.
I cannot help wondering if some of it is that Meghan wasn’t prepared for what the role is which is supporting royal more like Sophie less like Kate or Diana.

 

[Oreo]

FWIW, my former partner was a royal protection officer at Windsor Castle (retired now for some ten years). He took me there about a year ago to show me around, and it was his first time back since retirement. He ran into a number of people he knew who were still working at the castle, most non Metropolitan police. When the subject came around to the BRF, there were a few of them who were a little hesitant around me because I was an American. When I said I really didn’t have an opinion, out it came. Not a single one had a positive thing to say about Meghan; one person (who was in a position to know) really let loose. It had nothing to do with racism or whatever. It was more about having a fake and manipulative character.

There’s always a public side to well known people as well as what we want to believe for our own satisfaction, but when it comes down to it, it’s the behavior that goes on behind the scenes that’s the reality.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'd think a manipulative person would try to manipulate more of the spotlight for herself and her branch of the family, not less. But who knows.

 

[becca]

I'd think a manipulative person would try to manipulate more of the spotlight for herself and her branch of the family, not less. But who knows.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there leaving is because they want freedom to be global celebrities without shackles of the crown

 

[Jenny]

I hope Harry isn't so insecure as to be affected by that. The Queen has quite a few other children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren who were not pictured, either. I've seen similar "sovereign and heirs" portraits in Sweden and Norway. Carl-Philip - who was originally the heir to the throne - doesn't seem to take it as a slight, and as for Martha Louise, I'm sure she's happy not having too many royal obligations.

Given that she is in her 90s and her husband is to put it politely not in great shape, it's no surprise that someone who has spent her entire life in the service of her peopel is thinking about her legacy, and ensuring the strength of both the monarchy and that over which she reigns in the future, maybe even more so in the current political climate in Britain, and beyond. I think she was clearly sending a message to her people that wasn't about who was not included, but who was - her direct heirs, and the future of the crown.

In the past year or so I've been seeing a lot about how William and Kate should be more supportive of Harry and Meghan, and less so about the obligation in the other direction.

This is part of what saddens me. It wasn't long ago that William, Kate and Harry were thick as thieves. They had a shared charitable foundation that was stronger for the shared goals it had; they lived close by and shared offices and some staff; and they were often photographed at public events laughing together. I admit I had fantasized that when William eventually became king, that Harry would be right there by his side as his most trusted confidant and advisor, hopefully with his own family as well, supporting him and essentially leading the way together.

I'll say it - it's so often the woman that seems to give up everything for her man, but in this case, all evidence points to it being the other way around. And neither scenario makes for a healthy relationship.

 

[VGThuy]

I wouldn’t be surprised if there leaving is because they want freedom to be global celebrities without shackles of the crown

If they actually make it happen and become "global" celebrities who support various causes, then I can see in a few decades their influence and reach going far beyond that of the royal family honestly just judging by what people tend to talk about with the royals. It all seems to be comments about royal protocol and sniggering at who isn't following it properly and other celeb gossipy stuff....oh and weddings and babies which seems like makes the UK money when it happens. It seems that's all they're good for despite slightly hearing about various tours or charities they do. That good stuff seems to take a back seat to the petty gossip and scandals.

 

[mag]

Some British morning talk shows:

Were Prince Harry and Meghan Markle hounded out of Britain? | Good Morning Britain

Subscribe now for more! http://bit.ly/1NbomQa The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have announced they are to "step back" as senior members of the royal family and...

youtu.be

Stopped watching this one when the “Super Fan” came on, but the first part is I think very interesting and balanced:

Royal Experts Discuss Harry and Meghan's Shocking Announcement | This Morning

Subscribe now for more! http://bit.ly/1JM41yF Last night in a sensational statement shared on their Instagram, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle laid out their ...

youtu.be

ETA:
And because a good laugh is always nice:

Harry & Meghan Step Back From Their Royal Duties

Much to the dismay of fans of the British royals, Prince Harry and his wife Meghan Markle have announced they will step back from some of their duties as sen...

youtu.be

 

[Parsley Sage]

If they actually make it happen and become "global" celebrities who support various causes, then I can see in a few decades their influence and reach going far beyond that of the royal family honestly just judging by what people tend to talk about with the royals. It all seems to be comments about royal protocol and sniggering at who isn't following it properly and other celeb gossipy stuff....oh and weddings and babies which seems like makes the UK money when it happens. It seems that's all they're good for despite slightly hearing about various tours or charities they do. That good stuff seems to take a back seat to the petty gossip and scandals.

But how much of their Celebrity status is connected to their being part of the Royal Family?

 

[MsZem]

Thread is past 1,000 posts, I vote for a new one with an appropriately title.

 

[canbelto]

FWIW, my former partner was a royal protection officer at Windsor Castle (retired now for some ten years). He took me there about a year ago to show me around, and it was his first time back since retirement. He ran into a number of people he knew who were still working at the castle, most non Metropolitan police. When the subject came around to the BRF, there were a few of them who were a little hesitant around me because I was an American. When I said I really didn’t have an opinion, out it came. Not a single one had a positive thing to say about Meghan; one person (who was in a position to know) really let loose. It had nothing to do with racism or whatever. It was more about having a fake and manipulative character.

There’s always a public side to well known people as well as what we want to believe for our own satisfaction, but when it comes down to it, it’s the behavior that goes on behind the scenes that’s the reality.

And I hope they all got fired because gossiping like that about ppl they work for is unprofessional.

 

[VGThuy]

But how much of their Celebrity status is connected to their being part of the Royal Family?

Everything but also nothing at the same time. Kind of like Princess Diana before she died, if that makes sense.

 

[attyfan]

...
The BRF has a lot of patronages and charitable initiatives and engagements, which require more than just a handful of people to keep going. Even a streamlined monarchy would presumably include more than just Charles, William and Kate; it'll be years before the Cambridge kids are old enough to do engagements.
...

Harry may want to explore whether he is capable of doing more than merely patronages and engagements. Certainly, I think it likely that the Royal Family needs to develop alternatives for younger siblings of future monarchs.

According to everything I've read, Harry & Meghan will be splitting their time between Britain and North America. Has something changed? The reason I am asking is that splitting time should allow H & M to keep up with (at least some) of their charitable patronages -- as well as allowing them come back if necessary -- but if they are flat out leaving, that would be a different story.

 

[Vagabond]

Thread is past 1,000 posts, I vote for a new one with an appropriately title.

"Stepping Back"
"Things Are Getting Harry"
"A Harry Escape"
"Nothing Succeeds Like Sussex"'
"'I'm a Minor Royal, Get Me Out of Here!"
"Kind Hearts and Coronets"
"Putting the 'Fun' in Dysfunctional"
"Running Away from Home with Lots of Baggage"
"The Married Lives of Windsor"

?‍

 

[Jenny]

But how much of their Celebrity status is connected to their being part of the Royal Family?

Agree that it's pretty much all of it, but fact is he's still Prince Harry and no matter what other titles he has and what he does in future, he'll still be Prince Harry for the rest of his life. Many of maintained their celebrity on far less.

If Meghan wants to be a celebrity, then marrying a bonafide prince was a good career move, because before that she was one of thousands, tens of thousands, of actresses with one decent show to her name, and even there, as a member of an ensemble cast on a show that beyond a core group of fans, few had seen or heard of. I'm sure I'm not the only one who had never heard of her until she started dating Harry.

 

[MsZem]

"Stepping Back"
"Things Are Getting Harry"
"Nothing Succeeds Like Sussex"'
"'I'm a Minor Royal, Get Me Out of Here!"
"Kind Hearts and Coronets"

More suggestions to come if this thread doesn't get closed.

The Break-up, obviously

Alternatively, Harry and Meghan's Great British Spinoff.

I'll show myself out.

 

[canbelto]

Here is a great article about Meghan and racism:

Opinion | Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out (Published 2020)

It’s the racism.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Oreo]

And I hope they all got fired because gossiping like that about ppl they work for is unprofessional.

None of these people worked for them nor were paid by the Crown.

 

[MacMadame]

This is what makes me think there is some serious mental illness going on. I have no doubt he has PTSD, and I also The fact that she has isolated herself from essentially her entire family (I know some are crazy, but they can’t all be.) ”

Speaking as someone from a dysfunctional family, it's complicated. The problem starts with two people having a problem with each other and then people take sides and it expands from there. Or there is one or two really toxic people and then disagreement about how to handle that. So some family members distance themselves from the toxic person and other family members object ("but they are family!") and again it expands from there.

Or we will see Beatrice and Eugenie drafted into service, or possibly a change for Louise and James.

Or maybe they can scale back on some of the engagements Royals are expected to be at?


This article amused me because I think it does take a very American POV on the whole thing:

Harry and Meghan’s Break With the Royal Family Is a Real Thrill for Us All

This is all shaping up to be a very irresistible, refreshingly meaningless drama.

slate.com

Some excerts:

British tabloids have been brutally critical of Meghan in particular, and often blatantly racist. But she has become a beloved figure internationally. “Meghan and Harry have really gotten a raw deal from the British press, but the wider world adores them,” said Leslie Carroll, the author of American Princess: The Love Story of Meghan Markle and Prince Harry,

The announcement will be greeted with skepticism from those who point out that the couple is already rich and apparently keeping their royal titles. Meanwhile, they are cutting themselves off from an increasingly toxic brand while retaining their status as global celebrities. They will enjoy more personal and professional freedom, a round of sympathetic international press coverage, and potentially even higher incomes. What exactly is the sacrifice here?

Only the royals could turn “We’re thinking about possibly moving to Canada” into the juiciest celebrity story of the year so far.

It also says that the couple has an estimated wealth of 35-40 million. Not sure how they came up with that figure.

 

[taf2002]

None of these people worked for them nor were paid by the Crown.

Is it possible that these people just hated Meghan from the get-go because she wasn't an English aristocrat? Apparently there are a lot of Royalists who feel that way judging by all the venom in the press.

I think it's ridiculous to heap blame on either Harry or Meghan. The York princesses are just as much the Queen's grandchildren as Harry. Have they been doing as many appearances as Harry? If so I've never heard about it. They seem to be very popular with the UK people so they could easily take up the slack.

 

[VGThuy]

I remember watching this cheesy Royal Family special on Netflix years ago that had an episode about Harry and William, and I swear, some of the interviewees they had were like editors of Tiger Beat or something. They were like in love with the duality of personalities and in love with Harry being a bit naughty and stuff. It all seemed so immature and these were grown ass women talking like lovelorn tweens, so I wonder if there's some backlash towards either of the wives stemming from that as well.

 

[floskate]

Is it possible that these people just hated Meghan from the get-go because she wasn't an English aristocrat? Apparently there are a lot of Royalists who feel that way judging by all the venom in the press.

I think it's ridiculous to heap blame on either Harry or Meghan. The York princesses are just as much the Queen's grandchildren as Harry. Have they been doing as many appearances as Harry? If so I've never heard about it. They seem to be very popular with the UK people so they could easily take up the slack.

Servants/staff, whatever, have lived their lives through their bosses since time immemorial. I've known a couple in my time and their snobbery was unbelievable. So yes that is more than possible and if they were predisposed to loathe her then she wouldn't have had to do too much to trigger it.

I also can't say that Beatrice and Eugenie are exactly popular here.