Quad eliminationists have won. No man will do a quad 2019-2020 on

[caseyedwards]

I understand the need to curve the quadmania a bit - but trying three measures (with the changed PCS-guidelines practically four) at once? Reducing the base value, increasing the penalty for falls/mistakes and limiting the number of repeated quads to 1? It seems a bit much and somewhat unscientific. How will you know what really worked?

They didn’t now directly ban quads. But now is certain no man will ever do a quad again after a season of these rules . The quad eliminationists have won.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/06/14/281232048

I think some men will do quads as the 2018-2019 season begins but it’s clear at worlds no man will be doing quads

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

As it was written the word of God in Relevation's 16:8! I pray that this awful rule mostly designed to help Jason Brown who has all ready gotten so many favors done for him in the expense of better more moral skaters like Ross Minor, I hope that there is a fight against it. The fitness of the sport and more important, the men in the sport, depend on quad staying strong. If the quad dies out then so do hope's and dream's of all "real" fans of skating, that includes both my wife and I.

 

[skateboy]

They didn’t now directly ban quads. But now is certain no man will ever do a quad again after a season of these rules . The quad eliminationists have won.

I don't think it will make that much of a difference--the guys that can do quads will do them and still come out on top--but I find it upsetting that limits of athletic achievement are being imposed on an OLYMPIC SPORT.

 

[caseyedwards]

I don't think it will make that much of a difference--the guys that can do quads will do them and still come out on top--but I find it upsetting that limits of athletic achievement are being imposed on an OLYMPIC SPORT.

It’s very dangerous. The new rules say a downgraded quad toe with fall is now “worth” -2 points. That’s too much of a risk for even hanyu and Chen! How can Chen and hanyu risk negative value jump passes

 

[Vash01]

Another crazy, over the top reaction, apparently without reading the article. Better go back to Ignore.

 

[Max Enchilada]

Just another way that the ISU is trying to screw over the "quad king" Max Aaron! No wonder he retired. Joke is on them!

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

Just another way that the ISU is trying to screw over the "quad king" Max Aaron! No wonder he retired. Joke is on them!

Amen! Hallelujah!

In my eyes, I see this as a "sad" attempt to add insult to a dead horse like by saying to Max and Ross "We would of made you retire anyway if you hadn't of done so all ready!"

Wrong! What it will make happen is that men who still skate will loose their fitness because the sport is no longer forcing them to have big muscles all over their body, especially the abs and the pecs and the glutes. And Ross and Max I hope will become gym partners and go spot and oil up each other while they maintain more perfect physics then any current skaters, they will have the last laugh and get offered to be on the cover of Men's Fitness I hope!

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Eliminate the quadruples. Bring back school figures,toe walleys,and mazurkas.

And Ross and Max I hope will become gym partners and go spot and oil up each other while they maintain more perfect physics then any current skaters, they will have the last laugh and get offered to be on the cover of Men's Fitness I hope!

This may be the least homosexual contribution you've ever made here. Congratulations.

-BB

 

[Bellanca]

I don't think it will make that much of a difference--the guys that can do quads will do them and still come out on top--but I find it upsetting that limits of athletic achievement are being imposed on an OLYMPIC SPORT.

I agree with you. I can also see TPTB left scratching their heads wondering why the fan base is still nowhere to be found in certain parts of the world. I think they might end up regretting it...

 

[watchthis!!]

Imagine the most glorious triple-triple (or triple-triple-triple) combination jumps ever seen by human eyes. Sounds like we might get to see something better than than from Hanyu and Chen next year. What a wonderful evolution for the sport!!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Back in the day, it was well - known that Sonja Henie had an impressive quadruple salchow. However, she thought it was more effective to dazzle audiences with running toe steps instead.

 

[overedge]

I don't think it will make that much of a difference--the guys that can do quads will do them and still come out on top--but I find it upsetting that limits of athletic achievement are being imposed on an OLYMPIC SPORT.

I don't. Lots of Olympic sports have restrictions that are intended to protect the athletes' health and/or safety. E.g. fencers aren't allowed to compete without body padding, and whitewater canoeists have to wear helmets. They might be able to move more freely or quickly without those things, but they could also hurt themselves a lot more easily.

We don't know yet what effect multiple repeated quads will have on skaters' bodies, especially younger skaters, so I'm fine with restricting the number of quads until that effect is better known.

 

[wingnut]

I don't. Lots of Olympic sports have restrictions that are intended to protect the athletes' health and/or safety. E.g. fencers aren't allowed to compete without body padding, and whitewater canoeists have to wear helmets. They might be able to move more freely or quickly without those things, but they could also hurt themselves a lot more easily.
We don't know yet what effect multiple repeated quads will have on skaters' bodies, especially younger skaters, so I'm fine with restricting the number of quads until that effect is better known.

Edit: Sorry, my message didn't post.

This is a fascinating discussion, and one that could be argued on a number of fronts. Regarding injuries, one could argue the opposite using your own words. We don't know yet what effect repeated quads will have on a young body, so why should we put limits on them without such information? And would limiting the number of quads allowed in competition really reduce such injuries? Most injuries happen during training- so would the young skaters be spending less time practicing quads? Or would they be spending more on them knowing that they can't afford to make a mistake on one should they choose to attempt one? Like I said, interesting questions that I don't think we have the answers to yet.

I'm generally not in favour of putting such restrictions on sports. Let the athletes dictate the progression of the sport. Right now we're at an all-time high when it comes to quads. But, potentially, we might be hitting the plateau where the Chens and Zhous of the world need to improve their other skills to compete with the likes of a Hanyu. The same thing happened years back when artistry had taken the priority for skaters, and once that leveled out, Patrick Chan brought the quad back and became the favourite. Hanyu, Fernandez etc followed suit.

 

[bardtoob]

Eliminate the quadruples. Bring back school figures,toe walleys,and mazurkas.

This may be the least homosexual contribution you've ever made here. Congratulations.

-BB

Yes, they should credit multiple rotation Toe Walleys. If they can scrutinize a back left edge with a high resolution camera, then they can also scrutinize a back right edge!

 

[overedge]

Edit: Sorry, my message didn't post.

This is a fascinating discussion, and one that could be argued on a number of fronts. Regarding injuries, one could argue the opposite using your own words. We don't know yet what effect repeated quads will have on a young body, so why should we put limits on them without such information? And would limiting the number of quads allowed in competition really reduce such injuries? Most injuries happen during training- so would the young skaters be spending less time practicing quads? Or would they be spending more on them knowing that they can't afford to make a mistake on one should they choose to attempt one? Like I said, interesting questions that I don't think we have the answers to yet.

If the number/type of quads in competition is reduced, or the value of quads, it's a pretty safe bet that the amount of time spent working on them in training is going to be reduced as well. Skaters and their coaches will be looking for other ways to maximize points and working on those instead.

And as far as injuries go, we already know that doing a quad requires more force and momentum than doing a triple or a double. So I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that more force and momentum is going to have more effect on a skater's body, no matter how well managed the force and momentum is. I'm in the "better safe than sorry" camp.

 

[wingnut]

I certainly doubt injuries played a part in these changes. Injuries are a risk in any sport or athletic endeavor. For me, and I'm sure many others, that's what makes a sport exciting- seeing individuals push themselves to their physical limits, of which injuries can be a product of. If they'd like to reduce the emphasis on jumps, I'd much rather see them reduce the number (I know they did to 7) rather than specifically discriminate against the more difficult jumps. For example, set the number of jumping passes to 5 but then leave it up to the skater which jumps to fill that with- five quads, five triples, whatever. I'd even throw away the Zayak rule and let them repeat jumps as many times as they want. Do five triple axels if you want. And ditch the outdated rule that makes an axel a requirement in the short program. Just make it three jumps. Why show favouritism to a specific jump and discriminate against others?

And I definitely don't think it's safe to assume that this will lead to less time spent on quads. Again, could be the exact opposite. If the top guys are still doing them, it will force others to learn them, and learn multiple quads since they can no longer repeat one, to remain competitive. And they may need to spend MORE time on them to make sure they're perfected before attempting them in competition.

In some ways they haven't exactly reduced the number of quads allowed- they've just strongly discouraged attempting one if you aren't confident in landing it. So I'm curious to see where this goes. The rules definitely encourage "conservative" skating but for a Nathan Chen who can, seemingly, land 4 or 5 quads with ease, this may have the opposite effect that they're looking for. If he keeps doing them anyway, and the rest of the competition is afraid to go for them, he may just further separate himself from the pack. Which I'm sure will lead to further changes down the road.

I'd love to see two things play out at some point- 1 is exactly as outlined above- Chen rattles off 5 different quads, gets bonuses on the last three, and wins anyway. Also, someone wins with 7 beautiful double axels. I remember in the early COP days, Kevin Van Der Perren had great success landing a 3-3-3 combo and then filled out the last 3 or 4 jumping passes with 2 axels.

Ultimately it will be in the hands of the athletes. And I can't wait to see where this goes.

 

[gkelly]

If they'd like to reduce the emphasis on jumps, I'd much rather see them reduce the number (I know they did to 7) rather than specifically discriminate against the more difficult jumps. For example, set the number of jumping passes to 5 but then leave it up to the skater which jumps to fill that with- five quads, five triples, whatever. I'd even throw away the Zayak rule and let them repeat jumps as many times as they want. Do five triple axels if you want.

That would show a severe lack of variety of skills. Would it be OK to allow 12 elements all of which are jumps, or even all of which are triple axels?

Or, for that matter, to allow 12 or 5 or even 3 spins, all of which are Biellmanns or all flying sitspins?

And ditch the outdated rule that makes an axel a requirement in the short program. Just make it three jumps. Why show favouritism to a specific jump and discriminate against others?

My understanding of the reasoning, which I don't think has ever been spelled out in writing, is to demonstrate mastery of a specific skill (jumping from a forward edge) that the ISU considers important and that would likely disappear entirely from the repertoire of skaters who can't do triple axels if they could fill their programs with other triples.

And I definitely don't think it's safe to assume that this will lead to less time spent on quads. Again, could be the exact opposite. If the top guys are still doing them, it will force others to learn them, and learn multiple quads since they can no longer repeat one, to remain competitive.

That does seem likely.

And they may need to spend MORE time on them to make sure they're perfected before attempting them in competition.

Possible.

I'd love to see two things play out at some point- 1 is exactly as outlined above- Chen rattles off 5 different quads, gets bonuses on the last three, and wins anyway.

Definitely possible. So much so, that I don't think the "anyway" is needed. Anyone who can land 5 quads, of 4 or 5 different kinds, with 3 of them toward the end of the program, is going to be in good position to win. And Chen is currently the most likely to do so.

Also, someone wins with 7 beautiful double axels.

That's not going to be allowed, any more than it will be allowed to do a program full of Biellmanns or flying sitspins. (Of course, it would be possible to do 3 different spins that start with a flying sit entrance or that include Biellmann positions, as long as they all have different codes, perhaps with and without change of foot, and at least one changes position and at least one of the spins-with-Biellmann has a flying entrance. But given the limits on difficult positions it would not be possible for all of the spins to earn level 4 that way.)

It would be legal to do a program with only edge jumps, or only toe jumps except for one axel with the current rules. But is that something we want to see?

Certainly quality should be rewarded, and difficulty of various kinds including but not limited to number of revolutions in the air. But what about variety? Does the sport want to reward skaters who can only do one thing and do it over and over and over again to rack up points, while showing hardly any other skills at all?

 

[DreamSkates]

It’s very dangerous. The new rules say a downgraded quad toe with fall is now “worth” -2 points. That’s too much of a risk for even hanyu and Chen! How can Chen and hanyu risk negative value jump passes

They can and will "risk" it because they are so good at landing them.

 

[CaliSteve]

Quads arent going away.

 

[Meoima]

lol quads are here to stay for sure.

 

[mag]

Well if there are no quads in the men’s event you can just switch over and watch the junior women

 

[briancoogaert]

Well if there are no quads in the men’s event you can just switch over and watch the junior women

Or just watch men's event for the beauty of glide and intricate steps !

 

[MAXSwagg]

Or just watch men's event for the beauty of glide and intricate steps !

Which the junior women don't have. Even the senior women compared to the top senior men can't match them in skating skills. Med, Zagitova, and Osmond vs. Hanyu, Chan, and Fernandez (even Uno). That competition would not even be close. LOL

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Be interesting to re-score Olys & 2018 Worlds under new rules - paricularly under rotations and falls. Would Adam be on the single's podium?

 

[MAXSwagg]

Be interesting to re-score Olys & 2018 Worlds under new rules - paricularly under rotations and falls. Would Adam be on the single's podium?

Lol No.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Be interesting to re-score Olys & 2018 Worlds under new rules - paricularly under rotations and falls. Would Adam be on the single's podium?

Maybe a shot at the pewter medal.