Papadakis/Cizeron #7 - A Matter of Confidentiality

[alain06fr]

Are you saying V/M paid for 3000+ North Koreans to cheer for them and no one else to make it look like they were more popular? I'm confused by what you're implying.

Of course not! There’s always a certain logic with what happens hence I don’t believe one second V/M paid these North Koreans.

 

[alain06fr]

I don't think you guys understand V/M's fan history in Korea. They are huge there. Huge in social media by Korean fans. Yuna Kim stated about ten years ago that she loved V/M. Her Korean fans then started following them. V/M had about a decade worth of performances to gain Korean fans, including but not limited to two 4CC wins there. V/M's performances at the Olympics were huge on social media as well, outside of Korea, and made a huge impact there and in U.S. media because people couldn't stop talking about them because of the actual skating.

This doesn't mean P/C hasn't had a similar effect on skating fans for the past 4-5 seasons. They have a huge and dedicated fan base as well. But we all know Olympic audiences are much more casual than die hard fans. Even Evgeny Platov talked about it when describing Nagano and things that usually make skating fans go wild may not reach casual, never-seen-figure skating before audiences in the same way. That's probably why the Shibs used Coldplay again because they knew most of the Olympic audiences in the arena and on TV would have never seen their "Fix You" before and it'd be like making a first impression. It just so happened that at this competition V/M had the biggest impression. It's not like it's a surprise considering that V/M are as close to household names as one can get in ice dance. It's just a fact you have to deal with even if you don't particularly like V/M. They have a big fan base (in ice dance terms).

As I try to stick to facts as most possible, I fully agree V/M are big stars in South Korea (and not only in South Korea BTW). Now, these Olympics in general were weird in so many ways. Prices were completely crazy and the consequence was the big number of empty seats in the rink. The audience was clearly not the audience you would get for an int'l competition organized in an arena in (or next to) Seoul with standard prices and easy access.

It's definitely obvious to anyone who already went to int'l competitions that there was something really unusual, weird and wrong at OG. As I said, true figure skating fans never attend competitions to remain silent 99% of the time except for one given man, one given lady, one given pair or ice dance couple. This doesn't exist in real life. Never ever. Fortunately! We know how true figure skating fans behave and I must say this is one beautiful side of this sport: Fans support almost all skaters. There's always a lot of emotions (laughs, tears, heavy silences when the crowd gets captivated by what's going on on the ice, etc.). When a skater falls down, he/she gets a big support from the public, and if he/she falls twice, he/she gets even more support. No one cares of nationalities. We are lucky enough to be in the rink and see all these talented couples who worked like hell to perform the best they can to enchante us. At the end, you encourage and congratulate all of them. It's always a special moment in many ways. Just to take one example, I must say I lived very intense moments in Boston. The crowd was so amazing in this huge arena. The men competition was just crazy with Javier and Hanyu, same for the Ladies and Pairs. As for Ice Dance, you could feel the passion with the reaction of the public. As usual, so many couples got big applauses, which were of course fully deserved. In Helsinki and Milan, the audience was extremely fair play, as usual, pushing and supporting all the skaters. That was figure skating.

 

[NinjaTurtles]

But one thing I did notice was that the fans or "fans" were screaming even when V/M took to the ice for MR, which for me is an indicator of something quite odd.

I don't think you guys understand V/M's fan history in Korea. They are huge there. Huge in social media by Korean fans. Yuna Kim stated about ten years ago that she loved V/M. Her Korean fans then started following them. V/M had about a decade worth of performances to gain Korean fans, including but not limited to two 4CC wins there. V/M's performances at the Olympics were huge on social media as well, outside of Korea, and made a huge impact there and in U.S. media because people couldn't stop talking about them because of the actual skating.

This doesn't mean P/C hasn't had a similar effect on skating fans for the past 4-5 seasons. They have a huge and dedicated fan base as well. But we all know Olympic audiences are much more casual than die hard fans. Even Evgeny Platov talked about it when describing Nagano and things that usually make skating fans go wild may not reach casual, never-seen-figure skating before audiences in the same way. That's probably why the Shibs used Coldplay again because they knew most of the Olympic audiences in the arena and on TV would have never seen their "Fix You" before and it'd be like making a first impression. It just so happened that at this competition V/M had the biggest impression. It's not like it's a surprise considering that V/M are as close to household names as one can get in ice dance. It's just a fact you have to deal with even if you don't particularly like V/M. They have a big fan base (in ice dance terms).

Yes and it's also worth noting that it was the second time V/M skated that FD at the Olympics. In the week between the Team Event and the FD, V/M had huge social media engagement. The casual fan had awerneess of V/M via the Team Event and the trending hashtags, news articles, Buzzfeed listicles, etc. V/M captured a lot of the figure skating and overal Olympic attention leading into the final ice dance events.

 

[yuna13fr]

Listen ice talk podcast episode 15 olympic recap at 39:50 they mentioned the audience in the arena.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ice-talk/id1435989156?mt=2
nick and jackie were both at the olympic arena.
again no conspiracy.

 

[alain06fr]

Yes and it's also worth noting that it was the second time V/M skated that FD at the Olympics. In the week between the Team Event and the FD, V/M had huge social media engagement. The casual fan had awerneess of V/M via the Team Event and the trending hashtags, news articles, Buzzfeed listicles, etc. V/M captured a lot of the figure skating and overal Olympic attention leading into the final ice dance events.

Social media related things and the behavior and reaction of the audience inside the rink are two very different things! In the rink, you have some kind of direct connection with the skaters, nothing to compare when watching them on TV. And this connection immediately creates a very special moment.
During an int'l competition, true V/M (or P/C ) fans can't stay impassible and unemotional to suddenly cheer loudly V/M (or P/C). This can't be. Once again, people behaving this way are definitely not figure skating fans.

 

[RoseRed]

Listen ice talk podcast episode 15 olympic recap at 39:50 they mentioned the audience in the arena.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ice-talk/id1435989156?mt=2
nick and jackie were both at the olympic arena.
again no conspiracy.

Saying a lot of Canadian fans were there to see V/M and claiming someone payed thousands of North Koreans is a very different thing. One is logical, the other is a conspiracy theory.

 

[alain06fr]

Saying a lot of Canadian fans were there to see V/M and claiming someone payed thousands of North Koreans is a very different thing. One is logical, the other is a conspiracy theory.

Yeah, one does not prevent the other. Actually I think I would have said exactly the same thing in these conditions.

 

[VGThuy]

The Shibs got pretty great applause too in both the SD and FD. Not V/M-level, but it was pretty loud for them. Also, a friend of mine told me Cappellini/Lanotte are popular in Korea as well as they like their storytelling routines. I don't remember how loud the crowd was for them.

 

[RoseRed]

I have not thought that far but we should put our heads together and come up with some ideas ...

This isn't exactly what I was thinking of, but "Saturday Sun" by Vance Joy just came on my playlist and the chorus does have a nice feeling and a good energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKqMNQkjHmI

ETA: Fire and the Flood has a sort of nice energy too.

 

[Peepsquick]

This isn't exactly what I was thinking of, but "Saturday Sun" by Vance Joy just came on my playlist and the chorus does have a nice feeling and a good energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKqMNQkjHmI

ETA: Fire and the Flood has a sort of nice energy too.

I do like it, it has a very sunny side to it (no pun intended )!
What do you think of this? Beside the gorgeous dancing, I like the rhythm and it is powerful...Gaétan Roussel "éolienne"
and it's about wind energy ... right up G/G's alley!

 

[ballettmaus]

But one thing I did notice was that the fans or "fans" were screaming even when V/M took to the ice for MR, which for me is an indicator of something quite odd.

 

[RoseRed]

I do like it, it has a very sunny side to it (no pun intended )!
What do you think of this? Beside the gorgeous dancing, I like the rhythm and it is powerful...Gaétan Roussel "éolienne"
and it's about wind energy ... right up G/G's alley!

I have a a bit of a hard time picturing someone skating to it (not sure why exactly, maybe just because I'm studying statistics right now), but it could be really cool if you pulled it off.

What about this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsD2wRp0sdk&t=141s
It's one of my favourites from my French music playlist

 

[thvu]

This thread is descending. Can we start a new one, and the people that just want to b*tch and say crazy stuff can stay here?

 

[Peepsquick]

I have a a bit of a hard time picturing someone skating to it (not sure why exactly), but it could be really cool if you pulled it off.

I know ... I'm not sure myself ... too rhythmic maybe ... but combined with another music?

 

[Sylvia]

My friendly advice is to post what you'd like to read here and ignore the rest. BTW, "G&G" will always been Gordeeva & Grinkov (my first-ever favorite skaters) to me.

 

[RoseRed]

I know ... I'm not sure myself ... too rhythmic maybe ... but combined with another music?

Yeah, it could definitely work in combo with something.

 

[Peepsquick]

Sorry, RoseRed, I just noticed that you had suggested another song ... and this one would surely be easier to skate to.
Let's continue our search ... come on, everybody !!!

 

[chantilly]

I was listening to the Tron soundtrack the other day and think it’dbe great for P and C.
Thoughts?

 

[VGThuy]

I was listening to the Tron soundtrack the other day and think it’dbe great for P and C.
Thoughts?

I know there are other pieces, but do you think they'll do it since Gadbois already made a program for H/D with a piece from the Tron soundtrack?

 

[chantilly]

I know there are other pieces, but do you think they'll do it since Gadbois already made a program for H/D with a piece from the Tron soundtrack?

How do I not remember this?

I think it’d depend on the piece.

It’s quite varied.

 

[Peepsquick]

Warning: I'm in "flitting"mode ... it will seem erratic ... but I like the different energies of these VERY different pieces:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9AThddzEjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGe-WXhbmBg

 

[alain06fr]

alain06fr - Some of what you are saying may be right (except, at least on TV, I did not see such huge numbers of North Koreans holding support signs of V/M), but the only fact I know for sure is that you would not be saying any of this if it was the oher way around (that is, if P/C would have gotten the reaction that V/M did).

Well, you could be very surprised... People who know me could tell you! For example, I would be pissed off to see a group of North Korean attending the free dance at OG 2022 in Beijing with big signs to only cheer P/C! And I would not hesitate to write it in this forum. I would definitely complain if the president of the French fed would be judge at OG 2022 because it's not acceptable at all. It can't be.

Secondly, I personally am not Canadian - just to be clear. I am Latvian, so there can't be any national bias from me in ice dancing. Sadly, there are no notable ice dance teams from Latvia.

You may have no notable ice dance couple right now but you have a fantastic skater with Deniss Vasiljev!

I just happened to be a V/M fan for much longer than I have been a fan of P/C, so they (V/M) were sentimental favorites to me more than anything else. But now that is in the past. Or at least it should be. I would like to be allowed to be a fully devoted Gabriella and Guillaume fan now when their rivals a fan of whom I also was have obviously retired from competitive skating.

Well, we all have our personal preferences.

On the other hand, as a P/C fan I am really appreciative of and thankful for your other, informative "insider" posts about Gabriella and Guillaume and their programs. So, unlike some others, I don't really want you to go away from this thread and I am not going to put you on 'Ignore' either.

I have no plans to "go away". It's not my style as you probably noticed! I have some convictions and I am a persistent guy but I stop posting for a while from time to time because I am busy with figure skating but for different purposes and I have no more time to post! As for blacklisting some members, as I said already, this is one of the nicest feature of this site as you can get rid of these people and mostly their comments of no interest whatsoever - They have nothing to say about G&G, they are obviously not interested in G&G (they hardly mention them!) and their main contribution consists in polluting the G&G fan thread with irrelevant posts. I don't hesitate to use this feature but I never use it systematically. I don't blacklist people for the simple reason I disagree most of the time with them! That would be completely stupid, I think. You can't discuss only with the people you agree with and it's actually good to have intense discussions and big disagreements from time to time, as long as people remain polite and argue... without any nationalist considerations of course... Who knows? You may learn something you were not aware of during these exchanges. Still, there's one thing I really dislike which is people jumping in this thread to try to stop debates they don't like or exclude people or stop this current thread, acting as some kind of "thought police". AFAIK, no one forces them to join these debates or read all related posts!

I try to share some information but I can't for sure share everything and you can easily understand why. Gabriella and Guillaume are not censors. They never say "you can't record this" or "you can't publish that". In such case, I think it's really up to them to inform the people about their programs at the moment they decide to do so through the broadcast channel which is the most appropriate, according to them. This being said, I think I can share my personal feelings, which I do on Instagram most of the time. As soon as G&G announced their FD music was from Rachael, I saw that some people started to listen to the whole Rachael Yamagata's discography! When these people say the only music pieces they like from Rachael Yamagata are piano based, I think it makes sense to tell them Gaby and Guillaume didn't want to have any piano based music this season (and probably next one either I guess) and that the first music piece is based on acoustic guitar and the second one on electric guitar. FYI, both pieces are from the same album (I know this is not helping much but at least you know).

 

[Twilight1]

alain06fr- how people spend their hard earned dollars for skating is their business. I wonder were you upset with American fans travelling to see Kwan? Russians travelling to see Yagudin and Plushenko? Japanese for their many brilliant skaters or is just Canadians you have a bias against?

Travelling and cheering favourites is an inherent right. Who someone chooses to cheer for is an inherent right. As fans we don't get to dictate what other people do.

I lived though years of some people disliking my favourite team and trying to advocate on their behalf until I got to a point where I realized people can like and cheer for who they wish.

It is not my business who cheers for who.

As fans... we like who we like.

End of story

 

[Twilight1]

alain06fr- how people spend their hard earned dollars for skating is their business. I wonder were you upset with American fans travelling to see Kwan? Russians travelling to see Yagudin and Plushenko? Japanese for their many brilliant skaters or is just Canadians and V&M fans you have a bias against? Because as long as I have watched skating fans can be hardcore and travel miles to see their faves.

Travelling and cheering favourites is an inherent right. Who someone chooses to cheer for is an inherent right. As fans we don't get to dictate what other people do especially with the thousands people spend on the Olympics.

I lived though years of some people disliking my favourite team and trying to advocate on their behalf until I got to a point where I realized people can like and cheer for who they wish.

It is not my business who cheers for who.

As fans... we like who we like.

Different spin. Different opinion

 

[laviemn]

This thread is descending. Can we start a new one, and the people that just want to b*tch and say crazy stuff can stay here?

Some of us were here before the North Korean conspiracy theorists and totally sincere P/C fans who only post here about other teams so no, we'll stay and they can grace the Team Trainwreck thread with their presence.

 

[cocotaffy]

Ok, playing Sherlock now and I have a combo of possible songs people based on the info about one acoustic guitar + one electric guitar piece all from the same album:
Electric (and good potential because it has some punch) Starlight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_dIAwdi5N0
Acoustic, much slower but offering a contrast Dealbreaker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb3V6XjGxo4
All from Chesapeake album.

 

[alain06fr]

Ok, playing Sherlock now and I have a combo of possible songs people based on the info about one acoustic guitar + one electric guitar piece all from the same album:
Electric (and good potential because it has some punch) Starlight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_dIAwdi5N0
Acoustic, much slower but offering a contrast Dealbreaker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb3V6XjGxo4
All from Chesapeake album.

No stress! Think you'll discover their programs for this season in only 4 weeks from now.
Correction: In 2 weeks from now!

 

[jujubi64]

No stress! Think you'll discover their programs for this season in only 4 weeks from now.
Correction: In 2 weeks from now!

it's too long but hey it will probably be worth!

my money on the album tightrope walker

 

[rfisher]

Some of us were here before the North Korean conspiracy theorists and totally sincere P/C fans who only post here about other teams so no, we'll stay and they can grace the Team Trainwreck thread with their presence.

No, they cannot. We don't do bat excrement crazy. The whole lot of you just stay here.

 

[allezfred]

Are you saying V/M paid for 3000+ North Koreans to cheer for them and no one else to make it look like they were more popular? I'm confused by what you're implying.

I think we may have found the Papadakis/Cizeron version of the "Sekret Baby" conspiracy theory. The idea that Canada bought 3000 North Koreans fans to cheer for Virtue/Moir at the Olympics is just batshit crazy!

Besides Canadians would never let anyone get in the way of them making standing ovations themselves.