NBC Sports: Female Russian skaters stars rise fast, but burn out too soon

[jiejie]

Well, I can't decide if the Russian system is cruel to girls' bodies and dreams...or not.
I don't know if Eteri (or insert other Russian coach's name) is the mercenary beast...or not.

But I do know this: I would have loved to see a few more years of Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya, to see the skaters they would have become, lack of quads notwithstanding. (Yes, they have done shows but not to a worldwide audience that competitive skating allows.) That goes for Tsurskaya, Sotskova, Radionova, etc. who seem to be headed for the competitive exits sooner rather than later. Our skating Fandom World is poorer when we lose this caliber of skaters relatively early in their senior careers, and I don't know the solution.

 

[PRlady]

Until Eteri has a student like Tuk with such good technique that she can still win in her 20s, I’ll be dubious about her camp’s coaching methods. The Mishin girls could use more inventive choreo but, just like Plushy, they’re built for the long term. Same for Orser who had Kim, Hanyu, Javi into their maturity. Hamada and other Japanese coaches seem to keep the Satokos competitive even with a lot of younger talent.

Eventually, if the procession of tearful washed-up-in-their-teens girl skaters leaving Eteri’s camp continues, she will have fewer new young girls in her pipeline.

 

[rfisher]

Um, Sotnitkova wasn't Eteri's student. These skaters can make money skating in shows in Russia. Way more money than they make competing. Adelina had injuries that combined with the lure of money made for her and her family versus continuing to compete, money won. Sotskova is in college. Radionova has moved to other interests. Lipnitskaya also had injuries and, IMHO, didn't have the desire to continue to compete. Tuk is different. She doesn't do anything but skate. But, if Adelina, Julia, Elena, Liza all stayed in the top 3 of Russia, neither Med nor Zag would have been at the last Olympics. Russia simply isn't like the US or Japan and trying to make them fit in that mold isn't going to happen.

And, much as I hate it, I think Satoko's time is ending. She's not competitive against the younger Japanese skaters who have just moved up from juniors to seniors. Japan only has 3 spots at big events as well. And, she's only in her early 20s.

 

[Rock2]

That's all fine and dandy, but if Alina skates at Worlds the way she's been skating, there's a good chance she won't even be on the podium, making it the second year in a row with no Eteri/Dudakov students getting world medals. And it's certainly not for lack of talent or determination on Alina's part.

At some point Russia has to ask itself why, while its juniors are taking the world by storm, its seniors keep imploding.

My point is, why do they need to ask that, because their juniors are successful in their first year or two of seniors, resulting in a regular stream of world and Olympic gold? If one senior implodes, next man up, as they say. Russia cares much more about Olympics than anything else. They likely couldn't care less if Zagitova is around for Beijing because their next champion will come from Kostornaia, Trusova, etc. I don't think they see this as a problem. They've already identified the successors to Trusova already, so they're more than good.

With that in mind, watch how quickly Eteri ghosts Alina next year, depending on who is skating senior. I'd be surprised if she's ever seen in the K&C with her again after world's. Sad, but it's how they roll...

In their eyes: NEXT!

 

[Rock2]

Eventually, if the procession of tearful washed-up-in-their-teens girl skaters leaving Eteri’s camp continues, she will have fewer new young girls in her pipeline.

Unless Eteri's school is the only one producing Russian Olympic champions. In such a case girls will understand that all roads to Olympic gold (and thus being set for life) in Russia go through her. I suspect to them, Olympic gold > six year decent senior career by a long shot.

Things will change if another coach emerges in another camp that outdoes what Eteri is producing. Not holding my breath in the short term.

 

[Wyliefan]

My point is, why do they need to ask that, because their juniors are successful in their first year or two of seniors, resulting in a regular stream of world and Olympic gold? If one senior implodes, next man up, as they say. Russia cares much more about Olympics than anything else. They likely couldn't care less if Zagitova is around for Beijing because their next champion will come from Kostornaia, Trusova, etc. I don't think they see this as a problem. They've already identified the successors to Trusova already, so they're more than good.

I see your point. And yet it's still a gamble taking this "groom a bunch of promising juniors and make sure a couple of them have just turned senior in time for the Olympics" approach. It worked once. It may not always work. Alina peaked right on cue, but Evgenia was already struggling. All kinds of things can happen -- growth spurts, illness, injury, other factors -- that can throw a wrench into the plan, especially if the skaters are being trained without regard to their overall health and welfare.

 

[MacMadame]

On a psychological side, I'm not sure I'd be happier to struggle at 16, with an Olympic gold medal at 15. And in fact, I'm sure it's harder when you had won everything at such a young age.

And I'm sure it varies by individual. Plus, I don't know any athlete in any sport who thinks it would be better to not have an OGM.

 

[Madison25]

My point is, why do they need to ask that, because their juniors are successful in their first year or two of seniors, resulting in a regular stream of world and Olympic gold? If one senior implodes, next man up, as they say. Russia cares much more about Olympics than anything else. They likely couldn't care less if Zagitova is around for Beijing because their next champion will come from Kostornaia, Trusova, etc. I don't think they see this as a problem. They've already identified the successors to Trusova already, so they're more than good.

With that in mind, watch how quickly Eteri ghosts Alina next year, depending on who is skating senior. I'd be surprised if she's ever seen in the K&C with her again after world's. Sad, but it's how they roll...

In their eyes: NEXT!

I totally agree with this. If Zagitova doesn't have a very, very good end of the season, they will get rid off her. They wont need ''heavy bags'' when they have 3A.
Eteri already started the campaign for the next Olympics, promoting Valieva and Samsonov. She knows that the judges seem to like the fresh skaters for the Olympics, so Valieva is her bet. (Valieva will be in her first senior year at the Olympics the same as Zagitova was).
About Eteri in the K&C, it amuses me when Moris competes how she changes badges with Dudakov. In Minsk she didnt even wanted to stay near the boards when he competed, as if he-Moris is an ashame for her.

 

[wickedwitch]

Zagitova had pretty good jump technique, and she's still struggling. It's certainly possible that with a little time, she will adjust and get her jumps back.

 

[Madison25]

Zagitova had pretty good jump technique, and she's still struggling. It's certainly possible that with a little time, she will adjust and get her jumps back.

Unless her team (Eteri and Daniil) wont continue to undermine her mentally, as they did in Minsk...

 

[Madison25]

Unless Eteri's school is the only one producing Russian Olympic champions. In such a case girls will understand that all roads to Olympic gold (and thus being set for life) in Russia go through her. I suspect to them, Olympic gold > six year decent senior career by a long shot.

Things will change if another coach emerges in another camp that outdoes what Eteri is producing. Not holding my breath in the short term.

Maybe Svetlana Panova, who looks like a very talented coach. But for this she would need Rus Fed support, including for better training facilities.
Sergei Davydov from CSKA also looks a promising coach, especially tech, but he needs someone to polish the programs and the overall package.
The idea is that Eteri's influence has become really important with the election of Elena Tchaikovskaia as head of the Council for figure skating. Also Eteri has connections with the media- Channel 1.

 

[Fairuza]

Hanyu is also fortunate that there is very little depth in the Japanese men. Apart from Uno, there hasn't been any skater to take his place. That makes a huge difference

Excuse me? Do you willfully choose to forget the depth of Japanese male skaters when Yuzuru was still ascending among the ranks?

 

[starrynight]

About Eteri in the K&C, it amuses me when Moris competes how she changes badges with Dudakov. In Minsk she didnt even wanted to stay near the boards when he competed, as if he-Moris is an ashame for her.

Why does he remain in the group?

 

[Madison25]

Why does he remain in the group?

Moris? I read that there are some family connections with Eteri.
Plus, i think it is convenient for him to train in an important group, in Russia. I dont think that Eteri put pressure on him as she does with the other skaters that represent Russia.

 

[carriecmu0503]

Both, Midori Ito and Fumie Suguri, chose skating as their life long career and/or hobby, they are skating in Adult Int'l events till today or until very recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwhaBcT7j50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A2fPsBxXZQ

It is their choice, good for them. It is wonderful if one loves his/her activity so much, that they can do it for decades and have means to do it.

As to "would be blowing us all away" sounds like you decided for all how "all of us" should react, and that's not right. I enjoyed some of their programms very much, felt very positive about their skating, but was never an "uber" or "blown away" too often.

Fans have their various preferences in styles/skaters/goals/etc., and skaters have their own goals and plans. It is the skaters who skate, spend money and time, so their goals is what is important.

There are skaters who did not/do not plan to make skating their careers, or to stay in competitive skating or skating in general for more than a certain period of time, before moving on to education, other careers, or show-skating. It does not matter what the fans want.

Witt stayed 2 cycles, then chose to quite and then to come back.
Lipinski chose to become an entertainer, first a show skater, then a actress, then a media personality.
Kwan chose to stay for 3 olympic cycles.
Hughes won Olypics, and chose education.
Edmunds won her US Nationals, and made it to 1 Olympics, and chose to go to college.
Sotnikova could not cut the strings with the idea of staying competitive, but did not do or did not have what it takes.
Sotskova after the 2018 Olympic cycle decided that education is more important, and skating became secondary.
Kostornaya made it clear, that after one olympic cycle, 2022, she plans to go to medical school.

Some never reach their goals because of various circumstances or lack of abilities.

People, who are skaters, have different goals in life. All have their "best years" when they can perform their best, some at 14, some at 16, some at 20, etc, and in pairs/dance as far as into 30's.

The wider the "age range" for skaters to perform internationally in major events, the more likely they are to find those few years when they are at their best.
As to fans? some want to see what they perceive as "maturity" which is subjective, some want to see "young and energetic", some want to see "the most difficulty possible", some want to see "artistic side", or any other elements they want, or combinations.

But it is up to the skater, not fans.

Edmonds never won US nationals. She left skating to focus on college because her serious foot injury never healed enough to allow competing to be an option. We will never know what her full potential as a skater might have been because of that injury.

 

[aftershocks]

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...katers-stars-rise-fast-but-burn-out-too-soon/

Have at it.

"Alysa Liu, the new U.S. national champion, is on par with Kihira..."

Liu is NOT 'on par with Kihara.' Not yet.

First off, Liu is not even eligible yet to compete with Kihara on the senior level! Forget about the fact Kihara has a bigger and better 3-axel when she's on. Also, Liu still needs to work on her aesthetics, while Kihara has improved in that area quite a bit, with more work to do, but she's farther ahead than Liu -- no par about it.

I'm suspicious of nice, thoughtful journalist, Berlot, inadvertently or advertently and willingly shilling for NBC and US fed with this article.

 

[aftershocks]

IMO she gave V/M the winning free skate at the 2010 Olympics, D/W the winning free in 2014.

Hmmm, but V/M and D/W had a great deal of input into their programs, especially by 2014.

For 2011-2012 season, V/M were adamant and stubborn about doing Funny Face. Despite their Worlds win in 2012, that wasn't a great FD for V/M, and it wasn't Zoueva's fault. As we know, D/W's SD and FD in 2011-2012 were dynamite, but they didn't win Worlds. Conversely, at 2011 Worlds, I thought V/M had great comeback programs (post Tessa's surgery), but V/M lost to D/W.

At Vancouver Olympics in 2010, D/W had as great or better a SD (certainly widely memorable) as V/M, but the judges went with V/M all the way (V/M did have great programs and performances). Despite their memorable and iconic Bollywood SD in Vancouver, D/W were seen to have room to improve aspects of their skating. It's not as simple and cut-and-dried as you suggest.

 

[IceAlisa]

Zagitova had pretty good jump technique, and she's still struggling. It's certainly possible that with a little time, she will adjust and get her jumps back.

I feel like it’s better than pre-Orser Med’s but not as good as Osmond or Kihira. Zag usually URed her 3loop at the end of the 3l3r combo, even last season when the judges let her get away with it

 

[Tinami Amori]

Edmonds never won US nationals. She left skating to focus on college because her serious foot injury never healed enough to allow competing to be an option. We will never know what her full potential as a skater might have been because of that injury.

- you're right, Edmonds was 2nd at Nationals twice, and 1st Gold at 4CC, several golds and medals at GP and Challenger events, and made the Olympic team. That is more than most skaters accomplish.

- her injury, which most skaters get, (obtained not with Eteri.. but with a regular nice considered US coach) may have prevented her from competing further, but her family always intended for her to go to college as a main life's plan (i know this, because my close friend with 2 daughters skaters, worked with Polina's father and they talked about it).

Polina accepted her accomplishments in skating, plus the fact of the injury and ability to continue, and happily went on to normal/college life. No hysterics, no drama, no big announcements, or blaming the coach, the system or the moon..
https://www.instagram.com/p/BqIOw_7gqgX/

 

[NinjaTurtles]

I feel like it’s better than pre-Orser Med’s but not as good as Osmond or Kihira. Zag usually URed her 3loop at the end of the 3l3r combo, even last season when the judges let her get away with it

Zagitova is maybe the best of the Eteri crop when it comes to jumping technique, but she still has issues. Prerotating and a bit of the upper body muscling that’s fast becoming the trademark of Eteri’s girls. She’s twisting her shoulders too much to start the rotation.

 

[bardtoob]

- her injury, which most skaters get, (obtained not with Eteri.. but with a regular nice considered US coach)

She had a mean Russian mother coach.

 

[carriecmu0503]

- you're right, Edmonds was 2nd at Nationals twice, and 1st Gold at 4CC, several golds and medals at GP and Challenger events, and made the Olympic team. That is more than most skaters accomplish.

- her injury, which most skaters get, (obtained not with Eteri.. but with a regular nice considered US coach) may have prevented her from competing further, but her family always intended for her to go to college as a main life's plan (i know this, because my close friend with 2 daughters skaters, worked with Polina's father and they talked about it).

Polina accepted her accomplishments in skating, plus the fact of the injury and ability to continue, and happily went on to normal/college life. No hysterics, no drama, no big announcements, or blaming the coach, the system or the moon..
https://www.instagram.com/p/BqIOw_7gqgX/

Polina never medaled on the grand prix. She has one challenger series medal. She did win 4CC and skated at the Olympics as her first senior international and second ever senior event. She has two senior international medals.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Be sure to read the reader comments under this article; many are from former skaters and they are really pissed at the author.

My favorite comment was, "Did someone let Don Cherry comment on figure skating?"

 

[Tinami Amori]

Polina never medaled on the grand prix. She has one challenger series medal. She did win 4CC and skated at the Olympics as her first senior international and second ever senior event. She has two senior international medals.

She won 2 golds at JGP in 2013/14 season (i should have specified it is Junior GP). Her BOW fr 2012 to 2015 left her with a good number of wins and medals (before she went on to college), that's was the original point..

 

[Japanfan]

Hmmm, but V/M and D/W had a great deal of input into their programs, especially by 2014.

That doesn't mean Zoueva didn't have her own agenda, and put it in play.

At Vancouver Olympics in 2010, D/W had as great or better a SD (certainly widely memorable) as V/M, but the judges went with V/M all the way (V/M did have great programs and performances). Despite their memorable and iconic Bollywood SD in Vancouver, D/W were seen to have room to improve aspects of their skating. It's not as simple and cut-and-dried as you suggest.

It was the CD in 2010, not the SD. I don't remember it, but do remember the OD, which was the folk dance that year. V/M did a brilliant flamenco - all three (it was 3 IIRC) did the flamenco, and traveled to Spain to train the dance. I thought it surpassed D/W Bollywood.

I do think it was pretty cut and dried in terms of both V/M and D/W getting an Olympic medal. As to the Worlds medals, I am not so sure but my feeling is that maybe those competitions were more fair.

Of course there is JMHO. But, pre-ranking in dance has been going on for a long time. Why would it be any different when a well-known coach with political clout has the two top dance teams in the world.

[/QUOTE] For 2011-2012 season, V/M were adamant and stubborn about doing Funny Face. Despite their Worlds win in 2012, that wasn't a great FD for V/M, and it wasn't Zoueva's fault. [/QUOTE]

I hated that program and did not understand how it took V/M to the world title. It didn't make me think I needed to rethink whether Worlds competitions are fair. . .I just figured that my dislike of the music caused me to respond negatively to the program.

 

[aftershocks]

It was the CD in 2010, not the SD. I don't remember it, but do remember the OD, which was the folk dance that year. V/M did a brilliant flamenco - all three (it was 3 IIRC) did the flamenco, and traveled to Spain to train the dance. I thought it surpassed D/W Bollywood.

Oh yes, OD, SD, RD -- headache-D. What will they call it next?!

To each their own regarding VM vs DW wars. Both were/are brilliant and will go down in history as two of the greatest ever ice dance teams. Pick your fave and stay on that island. For me, it's just not that cut-and-dried.

I don't pretend to know anything about Zoueva's intentions, motivations, manipulations, and desires in regard to these two teams. By now, it is or should be 'water under the actual or proverbial bridge.' And this is obviously exceedingly and hopelessly OT in this thread.

Why would it be any different when a well-known coach with political clout has the two top dance teams in the world.

Tell that to the Gadbois crew: M-F Dubreuil, Patrice Lauzon, Romain Haguenauer, and their amazing ice dance teams.

 

[aftershocks]

Dup post

 

[Japanfan]

Tell that to the Gadbois crew: M-F Dubreuil, Patrice Lauzon, Romain Haguenauer, and their amazing ice dance teams.

You think they have no political clout?

 

[UGG]

She won 2 golds at JGP in 2013/14 season (i should have specified it is Junior GP). Her BOW fr 2012 to 2015 left her with a good number of wins and medals (before she went on to college), that's was the original point..

I would imagine Polina’s career was not the career she wanted and if she did not injure her foot, she would have still competed. College seemed like the logical option due to her injury she never recovered from. Polina wanted a national title, to make the GPF, and to be the clear USA #1, to medal at worlds. it was very apparent with her interviews. I don’t think she was pleased with her career and ran off into the sunset for college.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I would imagine Polina’s career was not the career she wanted and if she did not injure her foot, she would have still competed. College seemed like the logical option due to her injury she never recovered from. Polina wanted a national title, to make the GPF, and to be the clear USA #1, to medal at worlds. it was very apparent with her interviews. I don’t think she was pleased with her career and ran off into the sunset for college.

I am sure she did want more medals and titles..... But she appears to be perfectly happy and did not hang herself over transferring to college life..