Most Controversial Judging Decisions Ever

[Tada]

I wish people instead of stating the above would understand simple math. Patrick won the Short program over Denis with 98.37 to 91.56, and it was deserved, he was brilliant. That win gave Patrick a 6.81 point lead. Denis won the long program 174.92 to 169.41, which is a 5.51 difference. Simple math Denis did not win because his long program was not enough to overcome Patrick`s lead from the short program.
Denis program was impressive for Denis but he was not technically outstanding. Patrick planed and executed 2 quads, while Denis only had 1 quad. Denis also messed up on his third combo doing only a 2F+2T. For Denis to win he need to be prefect, which he wasn't, in the long because he had lesser technical content and for Patrick to screw up, which he did.



Again Patrick won the short program with 89.41 over Daisuke 85.72 which is 3.69 points. In the long Patrick had 2 jump errors and but so did Daisuke. Patrick jump content was also harder he had two quads and triple axle while Daisuke had one quad and two triple axles. For Daisuke to win he had to be perfect and he was not. As for PCS at this point Patrick had the best skating skills and the most transitions among the men’s skater and I think it is justifiable that he as ahead but it was by less than half a point per category. Please note in the long program Yuzuria Hanyu was also ahead of Daisuke in the long program.

2013: Patrick long program; fell hard on a no hope 3 lutz, a no hope and underotated 3 Axel, bad step out on 3 jump combination, popped 3lutz to double lutz. Patrick was seriously over-scored in the PCs in the long, not just for the negative artistic effect of 4 huge mistakes but the overall program was just a good display of amazing skating skills, not a memorable important piece of art. ( like he has done with many pieces over time) Denis Ten SP was outstanding: watch it again, the posture, the passion, the musicality, the honesty. Those landings, the spring in jumps, the camels, the step sequence. He was underscored. In the long program: he did 3 triple lutz double toe- that should have been triple?-, double toe combination, doubled the flip. But he embodied the music all the way through, his step sequences were interesting, varied, and the electricity in that last sequence and so on. Those programs were unique and a moment in time. The moment belonged to Denis and I’m still angry he was robbed of his moment. And yes, even more now. Give people what they truly earn, the future has no guarantees. I wonder how those judges feel?

 

[tripleflutz]

I agree 98 for Chan in the short program wasnt outrageous. However in that case Ten should have been much higher than 91. He had a beautiful short program, and totally clean with the same jumps Chan did, should have been atleast in the 94-95 range. The great Frank Carrol even spoke of on the Skating Lesson how he found it bizarre Ten was getting so much lower PCS in the short than the long, when he felt his short was his better skate. Chan should have won the short of course, but not by 7 points. And anyone who denies Chan had both bloated GOE and PCS in the long program, ROTFL!

Anyway in retrospect I appreciate what Chan brought to the sport even more. I think you could make a case for him as the best skater ever, despite his lack of titles. I also dont believe greatness should ever be determined by just wins or titles, which cant ever accurately reflect a lot of things and ones impact on the sport. That all said though his 2013 and 2012 world wins were suspect from a competitive standpoint though. And no he definitely did not deserve higher PCS than Takahashi in the LP of the 2012 worlds, given their skates that night the only 1 of the 5 areas he was superior in is skating skills. Ironically he could have been given the 2014 Olympic Gold and IMO it would have been a far less disagreeable result than either his 2012 or 2013 world wins were, especialy 2013 the ultimate home cooked farce.

 

[Fiero425]

Tara really skated as well as the Olympics at the Champions Series Final. She lost by virtually the identical judges split as Kwan did in Nagano. Considering the inherent flaws in her skating, I would say she did pretty well for herself to come that close to an on fire Tara. JMO

Tara had to skate near perfectly to accomplish all she did when the pre-conceived notion was MK would win everything like Sonja back in the 30's! No one could touch her technically or artistically (terribly overrated) IMO! Like AZ winning over EM last season, it looks to have come down to a single combination; AZ's 3 Lutz/3 Lp over EM's 3 Lutz/3T! M Kwan was doing the simpler 3T/3T while Tara L. was doing a 3LP/3LP missing it once when overtaking MK in '97!

 

[Marco]

Miki Ando

I am surprised not more people challenegd when she narrowly won both of her world titles back then. Her PCS was outrageous compared to her closest competitors. I don't think I would have given her higher than bronze either time.

 

[tripleflutz]

Miki Ando

I am surprised not more people challenegd when she narrowly won both of her world titles back then. Her PCS was outrageous compared to her closest competitors. I don't think I would have given her higher than bronze either time.

I was fine with her winning in 2007 since she so far outjumped her competitors given her excellent and difficult jumps all done cleanly, with the major errors by both Kim and Asada. 2011 was ridiculous though, I am stunned there was not a ton more controversy over it. I can even totally understand some questioning 2007, but 2011 is another level.

PS- who do you have beating her to drop her to bronze in 2011? Kim obviously but you would have to be putting 1 or more of Kostner, Czisny, or Leonova over her too. Personally I would have had no problems with her finishing only 5th after blowing her double axel-triple toe.

 

[Marco]

I was fine with her winning in 2007 since she so far outjumped her competitors given her excellent and difficult jumps all done cleanly, with the major errors by both Kim and Asada. 2011 was ridiculous though, I am stunned there was not a ton more controversy over it. I can even totally understand some questioning 2007, but 2011 is another level.

PS- who do you have beating her to drop her to bronze in 2011? Kim obviously but you would have to be putting 1 or more of Kostner, Czisny, or Leonova over her too. Personally I would have had no problems with her finishing only 5th after blowing her double axel-triple toe.

I would personally have given Ando at least 1 point less on TR and CH, 0.5 point less on SS and IN at both 2007 and 2011 Worlds resulting in 7.2 points lower overall. I would likewise adjust Leonova's PCS downward if it were up to me. In contrast I may give Kostner and Czisny a few points higher overall.

 

[Polaris]

Olympics 2014 Ladies for the win. Biggest highway robbery I've ever seen.

 

[tripleflutz]

I would personally have given Ando at least 1 point less on TR and CH, 0.5 point less on SS and IN at both 2007 and 2011 Worlds resulting in 7.2 points lower overall. I would likewise adjust Leonova's PCS downward if it were up to me. In contrast I may give Kostner and Czisny a few points higher overall.

That all makes sense to me. I forget what exact point total she beat Kim by in 2007, so 7.2 points might still keep her ahead of her, dont know. Kim not only had the 2 falls, but ended up losing about another fall worth of points for the repeated no combo things since both falls ended up being on solo lutzes.

I agree on Leonova although her LP at the 2011 worlds was IMO her best ever and really suited her. Much moreso than silver medal winning LP at the 2012 worlds.

 

[nuge]

The 1991 Worlds and 1992 Oly's for the Duschenays. Absurdly overmarked both times. Their weaknesses in the compulsories and their simpler routines should have gotten them bronze at most. To this day I don't know why they were so hyped.

I agree.Such an over hyped team.I watched a couple of their FDS recently and they are just full of tricks.The audience waiting for the next innovative move Their SS compared to K/P were miles apart.
As for P/C There must have been something great about Mozart to jump from 13th to first .Never been done before.

Like to mention 04 Worlds.Denkova/Staviski should have won over N/K with their brilliant Handel FD

 

[bardtoob]

Tara had to skate near perfectly to accomplish all she did when the pre-conceived notion was MK would win everything like Sonja back in the 30's! No one could touch her technically or artistically (terribly overrated) IMO! Like AZ winning over EM last season, it looks to have come down to a single combination; AZ's 3 Lutz/3 Lp over EM's 3 Lutz/3T! M Kwan was doing the simpler 3T/3T while Tara L. was doing a 3LP/3LP missing it once when overtaking MK in '97!

Tara had a back pump that was hard to ignore and would have hurt her score in SS today. I can't imagine an ice dancer, like Eteri, ever letting her skaters get away with that.

There wasn't much that could be done about Tara's crossovers, but Sandra Bezsic cleverly hid the back pump with big arm motions in her choreography, skating to music with big orchestrations lent itself to big sweeping motions, and otherwise keeping Tara's hands at her hips when possible during her Olympic Season programs.

 

[Vagabond]

Totally condescending, presumptive, patronizing, and arrogant like most Canadian skating fans. I can already guarantee you are Canadian. Most of the rest you said is garbage and easily refuted but you arent even worth the effort. I will put it simple for you, start a poll who should have won the 2012 worlds Takahashi and Chan, and another who should have won the 2013 worlds Ten or Chan. See if Chan even gets 25% of the votes in either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4keH9mngPRk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJe0_pPA0x8
http://dubemoir.blogspot.com/2014/07/cute-ice-princess-blog-looks-at-finnstep.html (comments section)

 

[JanetB]

Totally condescending, presumptive, patronizing, and arrogant like most Canadian skating fans.

So because I can and have easily refuted your argument I am condescending, presumptive, patronizing, and arrogant. Basic math if Denis Ten had done the 3F+3T he planned in the long program he would have gained at least another 5.99 points which would have given him the win.

I can already guarantee you are Canadian. .

And proud of it, the world needs more countries like Canada.

Most of the rest you said is garbage and easily refuted but you aren’t even worth the effort. .

I call this Donald trump logic; if you could refute it by looking at the protocol you would do so. And because you can’t you resort to name calling.

I will put it simple for you, start a poll who should have won the 2012 worlds Takahashi and Chan, and another who should have won the 2013 worlds Ten or Chan. See if Chan even gets 25% of the votes in either.

A public poll proves only that which skater has more fans will to vote in a poll, it does not prove who should actually won.

 

[JanetB]

So because I can and have easily refuted your argument I am condescending, presumptive, patronizing, and arrogant. Basic math if Denis Ten had done the 3F+3T he planned in the long program he would have gained at least another 5.99 points which would have given him the win.

2013: Patrick long program; fell hard on a no hope 3 lutz, a no hope and underotated 3 Axel, bad step out on 3 jump combination, popped 3lutz to double lutz. Patrick was seriously over-scored in the PCs in the long, not just for the negative artistic effect of 4 huge mistakes but the overall program was just a good display of amazing skating skills, not a memorable important piece of art. like he has done with many pieces over time)

If you look at the protocol you will see that Patrick was deducted right amount points for all of three of his error which are the falls on 3 Lutz and 3 Axel and bad step out on 3 jump combination. And the 2Lz2T was awarded the appropriate base value. Under the scoring system uses points for technical mistakes were not deducted in the PCS and I personally don’t think they should be. Because you are judging 2 different sets of skills.

Denis Ten SP was outstanding: watch it again, the posture, the passion, the musicality, the honesty. Those landings, the spring in jumps, the camels, the step sequence. He was underscored.

Patrick had a harder combination and overall he had harder jumps. Patrick also had great landings, the spring into jumps, great spins and the best footwork in the business. They both had great programs but while Denis was great in the short, Patrick was brilliant. When they both skated their best Patrick would invariably win over Denis, because Patrick was a better skater.

In the long program: he did 3 triple lutz double toe- that should have been triple?-, double toe combination, doubled the flip. But he embodied the music all the way through, his step sequences were interesting, varied, and the electricity in that last sequence and so on. Those programs were unique and a moment in time. The moment belonged to Denis and I’m still angry he was robbed of his moment. And yes, even more now. Give people what they truly earn, the future has no guarantees. I wonder how those judges feel?

Denis won the long program and if he had done the 3F+3T he planned in the long program he would have gained at least another 5.99 points which would have given him the gold medal. What you want to do is diminish Patrick’s brilliance in the short program so you can give Denis a gold medal.

 

[JanetB]

I agree 98 for Chan in the short program wasn’t outrageous. However in that case Ten should have been much higher than 91. He had a beautiful short program, and totally clean with the same jumps Chan did, should have been atleast in the 94-95 range. .

Look at the protocols Patrick had a harder combination and overall he had harder jumps. They did not do the same jumps

The great Frank Carrol even spoke of on the Skating Lesson how he found it bizarre Ten was getting so much lower PCS in the short than the long, when he felt his short was his better skate. .

The great Frank Carrol was Denis Tens coach so their no bias there right.

Chan should have won the short of course, but not by 7 points. And anyone who denies Chan had both bloated GOE and PCS in the long program, ROTFL! .

Anyone who thinks that Denis Ten was as good of a skater Patrick Chan was need to get their eyes check.

That all said though his 2013 and 2012 world wins were suspect from a competitive standpoint though. And no he definitely did not deserve higher PCS than Takahashi in the LP of the 2012 worlds, given their skates that night the only 1 of the 5 areas he was superior in is skating skills. Ironically he could have been given the 2014 Olympic Gold and IMO it would have been a far less disagreeable result than either his 2012 or 2013 world wins were, especialy 2013 the ultimate home cooked farce.

The only people who think that Patrick Chan’s 2013 and 2012 world wins were suspect from a competitive standpoint are people that don’t understand how the scoring system works and did not like his skating.

 

[tripleflutz]

And proud of it

Yep, it was evident you were Canadian from your posts, so thanks for confirming what I already knew. Only Canadians are capable of such ridiculous posts in certain areas. You are probably one of those who thinks Bourne & Kraatz were the ice dancing GOATs pre Virtue & Moir and didnt win a bunch of World titles and 2 Olympic medals only due to block judging, and that Elvis Stojko and Sale & Pelletier were never overscored, ROTFL!

A public poll proves only that which skater has more fans will to vote in a poll, it does not prove who should actually won.

"who should actually won". Your 3rd grade English teacher would be immensely proud now.

Anyone who thinks that Denis Ten was as good of a skater Patrick Chan was need to get their eyes check.

You are such a clueless dolt. I never said or remotedly implied Ten was a better skater than Chen, I said he was better at the 2013 worlds and deserved the title, basically just agreeing with 99% of skating fans who say the same thing. By your logic anyone who thinks Butyrskaya deserved to win the 99 World title over Kwan thinks Butyrskaya is the better skater.

The great Frank Carrol was Denis Tens coach so their no bias there right.

And who is one of the most respected, classy, and objective individuals in the sport. He never once complained about Kwan's silver in Nagano and Lysacek's 4th in Turin, despite that a decent number felt both should have placed one spot higher. I am sure he is 100 times more objective than an individual such as you could ever be for a Canadian skater, even for a skater he coaches.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Totally condescending, presumptive, patronizing, and arrogant like most Canadian skating fans. I can already guarantee you are Canadian. Most of the rest you said is garbage and easily refuted but you arent even worth the effort. I will put it simple for you, start a poll who should have won the 2012 worlds Takahashi and Chan, and another who should have won the 2013 worlds Ten or Chan. See if Chan even gets 25% of the votes in either.

Well, a rather charming person feels the need to be obnoxious.

 

[JanetB]

Yep, it was evident you were Canadian from your posts, so thanks for confirming what I already knew. Only Canadians are capable of such ridiculous posts in certain areas. You are probably one of those who thinks Bourne & Kraatz were the ice dancing GOATs pre Virtue & Moir and didnt win a bunch of World titles and 2 Olympic medals only due to block judging, and that Elvis Stojko and Sale & Pelletier were never overscored, ROTFL! .

I am very proud to be Canadian and I am very proud of how well Canadian skaters have done. You are the one who can’t accept that everyone else including the judges doesn’t share you opinion.

"who should actually won". Your 3rd grade English teacher would be immensely proud now. .

Well since you incorrectly spelled didn’t, over scored and remotely incorrectly in this post talking someone else to task for a typing error is a bit thick.

You are such a clueless dolt. I never said or remotedly implied Ten was a better skater than Chen, I said he was better at the 2013 worlds and deserved the title, basically just agreeing with 99% of skating fans who say the same thing. By your logic anyone who thinks Butyrskaya deserved to win the 99 World title over Kwan thinks Butyrskaya is the better skater. .

There goes the Trumpism again, you don’t have factual argument so you start name calling. So how do you know that 99% of skating fan think Ten should have won 2013 worlds, did you go out and interview them all. I guess all other than the Canadian ones of course. I think Ten skated a better long program in 2013 but I don’t think his short program was anywhere near as good as Patrick’s. If he Denis had done the 3F3T he would have won the gold medal.

And who is one of the most respected, classy, and objective individuals in the sport. He never once complained about Kwan's silver in Nagano and Lysacek's 4th in Turin, despite that a decent number felt both should have placed one spot higher. I am sure he is 100 times more objective than an individual such as you could ever be for a Canadian skater, even for a skater he coaches.

I would like to point out that I have objectively stated my opinion using facts from the protocols why I think Chan’s win was okay. You on the other hand seem to be having a temper tantrum because I don’t agree with you. You also seem to be incapable of have a discussion without insulting people. Just what did Canada ever do to you?

 

[thvu]

The only people who think that Patrick Chan’s 2013 and 2012 world wins were suspect from a competitive standpoint are people that don’t understand how the scoring system works and did not like his skating.

Alot of delusional stuff gets said on this board. Somehow, this overtakes them .

 

[tripleflutz]

You are the one who can’t accept that everyone else including the judges doesn’t share you opinion.

Everyone else doesn't share you opinion, ROTFL! I sincerely hope English isnt your first or even second language. Thanks for the comedy of reading your posts.

Lastly it is more like pretty much everyone eles agrees with my opinions on the 2012 and 2013 worlds except for the judges (or maybe not even the judges, since most likely the CSA cheque just came through on time).

 

[JanetB]

Alot of delusional stuff gets said on this board. Somehow, this overtakes them .

Basically this whole thread is about peoples opinions, few if any poster in this thread have given any reason why they think one competitor is better than another. All they say is 99% non Canadian Fans felt this (and this isn't delusional). For my money if you go to the protocols and all appropriate deductions are taken then you have to start comparing elements, what was the base value of the element, what was the appropriate GOE and PCS. You don't say I feel this skater was under marked or over marked because that is just an opinion and yes a lot of it has to do with who we like and who we don't like.

 

[giselle23]

I'll make the same case for Kerrigan vs. Baiul in 1994.
Nancy skated to the utmost of her ability on that day.

Yes, this was one of the most egregious. Oksana's SP was very good (and her exhibition kind of iconic) but her long program did not deserve to win over Nancy's. When she was elevated based on the second mark, that was an argument for ending the 6.0 system right there. Even if she had gotten a few 6.0's in presentation, it wouldn't have made up for her weak technical program. She didn't even have a combo until she threw in a double on her double axel at the end (as I recall). She had some two-foots in there, too, didn't she? So it should have been Kerrigan 5.8/5.8 (what she got); Baiul 5.5/5.9. Kerrigan wins.

 

[Vagabond]

So it should have been Kerrigan 5.8/5.8 (what she got); Baiul 5.5/5.9. Kerrigan wins.

The British and Canadian judges even had the guts to put Baiul in third place behind Chen Lu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_1994_Winter_Olympics_–_Ladies'_singles

 

[thvu]

Basically this whole thread is about peoples opinions, few if any poster in this thread have given any reason why they think one competitor is better than another. All they say is 99% non Canadian Fans felt this (and this isn't delusional). For my money if you go to the protocols and all appropriate deductions are taken then you have to start comparing elements, what was the base value of the element, what was the appropriate GOE and PCS. You don't say I feel this skater was under marked or over marked because that is just an opinion and yes a lot of it has to do with who we like and who we don't like.

No, what you’re doing is insulting anyone who disagrees with you when you said they “don’t understand how the system works. It’s not about having an opinion. It’s about how you are claiming yours is superior, and more correct because apparently, you understand the system whereas others do not.

Hence, my choice of the word “delusional.”

 

[WillyElliot]

As for P/C There must have been something great about Mozart to jump from 13th to first .Never been done before.

Like to mention 04 Worlds.Denkova/Staviski should have won over N/K with their brilliant Handel FD

P/C????

ETA: Oh Cizeron and his/her partner?

 

[sharsk8s]

P/C????

ETA: Oh Cizeron and his/her partner?

Yeah papadakis/cizeron. They placed 13th at worlds in 2014 and then 1st in 2015. It was quite the jump. There were a lot of factors involved though such as them changing coaches, many of the teams sitting out the year after the olympics and some of their biggest competitors making errors in the FD.

 

[bardtoob]

Anyone who thinks that Denis Ten was as good of a skater Patrick Chan was need to get their eyes check.

Denis was much more naturally artistic, which is why he did not abandon his coach and technical development and sabotage his career in pursuit of Madame Dance Lady's snake oil and whatever else she was offering, the way Patrick did.

 

[Japanfan]

Baiul over Kerrigan at Lillehammer 1994

Kwan versus Lipinsky in '98 was equally controversial, if it hasn't been mentioned

2001 Worlds pairs event. The most shockingly judged competition I have ever witnessed in person. It was pretty clear that there was an agenda to give Sale/Pelletier gold at all costs.

Sure the 2002 Olympics must have been mentioned somewhere.

I think Jamie Sale takes the award for most hated skater on FSU.

 

[Vagabond]

Kwan versus Lipinsky in '98 was equally controversial, if it hasn't been mentioned

Not controversial in the way the original poster means:

Looking for your own lists here- and I’m talking decisions that really seem to make no sense as opposed to close calls where you can see the decision going either way.

Apart from the ubers, most people seem to see the decision in 1998 going either way.

The decision in 1994 has come to make even less sense to many people now than it did then, in no large part because now

• The Technical Panel and judges have access to replays
• Elements have fixed Base Values
• Judges must mark every element, even if they didn't actually notice it live. (Jan Hoffman had his head turned during one of Kerrigan's jumps).
• The Free Skate has required elements, including step sequences.
• Jumps that the Technical Panel deems underrotated must get lower Base Value and a negative Grade of Execution.
• Two-footed jumps normally end up with a negative Grade of Execution.

It might be a bit unfair to judge Baiul's Free Skate under COP, but the way fans watch skating has changed a lot in the past twenty-five years.

 

[WillyElliot]

Sure the 2002 Olympics must have been mentioned somewhere.

I think Jamie Sale takes the award for most hated skater on FSU.

And for EVERY legitimate reason. Well look at it this way, shall we? Who was the better skater (by MILES) between Jamie Sale-ing Tears and Elena Berez.... No competition AT ALL. Zero question. And yes Pelletier was a VERY strong male pairs skater, but Anton was probably the best male pair skater since Grinkov, and I think even much better. So we have teary whiny Jamie who couldn't even compete in Canada as a "has been" (her words, and she was....). Sorry. Nope. The new judging system was put into place so that a Jamie with all her crocodile tears will never so long as a strong Canadian commentator on US tv can not EVER influence an Olympics. Scott Hamilton screams out like a chihuahua in heat (do they ever get into heat or do they just bark so damn annoyingly? Hamilton has no balls, figuratively wrt US skating, though, probably the wrong thing to say? whups. Sandra had a two pair for them both)

 

[briancoogaert]

It might be a bit unfair to judge Baiul's Free Skate under COP, but the way fans watch skating has changed a lot in the past twenty-five years.

No need to judge this under COP to find it controversial. It is controversial under 6.0 !