Missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370

[Garden Kitty]

I never thought about inflating (or not) the life vest in the plane, but I hope this is one piece of info I learned on FSU that I never need to use!

 

[Jenny]

I think airlines need to emphasize this more - I had no idea either until I saw that ep of Mayday. I know frequent fliers don't even pay attention to the demo, but you'd think after that crash where it was a serious factor they'd say that it's VERY important to not inflate until you are outside the plane.

They also don't do a good job of explaining why you need to put your own oxygen mask on before you put it on your child or assist others. I would think the instinct of most parents especially would be to put it on their child first, and when seconds count in the moment of panic, that's not a smart idea.

 

[MsZem]

I think airlines need to emphasize this more - I had no idea either until I saw that ep of Mayday. I know frequent fliers don't even pay attention to the demo, but you'd think after that crash where it was a serious factor they'd say that it's VERY important to not inflate until you are outside the plane.

They also don't do a good job of explaining why you need to put your own oxygen mask on before you put it on your child or assist others. I would think the instinct of most parents especially would be to put it on their child first, and when seconds count in the moment of panic, that's not a smart idea.

Yes, how hard can it be to explain to people that they will become hypoxic without immediately putting on the oxygen mask, and then they won't be of any use to anyone? See the famous Helios "ghost flight" for an example of what happens without oxygen at cruising altitude.

Maybe they should just show clips from relevant ACI episodes during the safety briefing

 

[BittyBug]

nm

 

[Rob]

I didn't see this posted anywhere: a crowd-sourcing search of the ocean. Though I don't know if it's in the original search area or in the new area:

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014

I saw this on the news this morning. Apparently there were so many people on the site that it is experiencing technical difficulties. A few unusual-looking things have been reported though.

 

[Wyliefan]

Yes, how hard can it be to explain to people that they will become hypoxic without immediately putting on the oxygen mask, and then they won't be of any use to anyone? See the famous Helios "ghost flight" for an example of what happens without oxygen at cruising altitude.

There was the crash that killed Payne Stewart, too. Same thing. My dad was a big fan of his, so I remember when it happened.

 

[skatingfan5]

Chinese release satellite image (from Sunday) of possible floating debris from missing plane -- in location of original flight path when plane when missing.

 

[IceAlisa]

Wow. This is getting more confusing every day. Haven't they searched the Gulf of Thailand already and that specific area? And what about the alleged U turn and going over the Straights of Malacca???

Something is rotten in the state of Malaysia.

 

[misskarne]

I think airlines need to emphasize this more - I had no idea either until I saw that ep of Mayday. I know frequent fliers don't even pay attention to the demo, but you'd think after that crash where it was a serious factor they'd say that it's VERY important to not inflate until you are outside the plane.

They also don't do a good job of explaining why you need to put your own oxygen mask on before you put it on your child or assist others. I would think the instinct of most parents especially would be to put it on their child first, and when seconds count in the moment of panic, that's not a smart idea.

Really? I flew just yesterday and in the safety briefing they made it explicitly clear that you were not to inflate the lifejacket until you were outside the aircraft. They also made sure to emphasise that you put on your mask first. (And though it was always part of the briefing, Qantas now also emphasises "pull down firmly to activate the flow of oxygen". A few years ago, there was an incident where a Qantas plane suddenly lost a couple thousand feet in height. The masks dropped, people just grabbed them and put them on, and then there was an endless wailing set up about how the oxygen wasn't working and it was terrible and blah blah blah. Because no-one pulled down like the briefing said.)

Yes, how hard can it be to explain to people that they will become hypoxic without immediately putting on the oxygen mask, and then they won't be of any use to anyone? See the famous Helios "ghost flight" for an example of what happens without oxygen at cruising altitude.

Oh gosh, the Helios episode I think is still one of the most heartbreaking episodes in all of ACI...imagine being the only person left on the plane conscious...

 

[Tinami Amori]

Every time we fly and they go through the demo I remind my husband - whatever you do, don't inflate until we're off the plane!

Don't be in a hurry to inflate your vest even when off the plane.

Few examples. Examine the distance between your position outside the a/c and life-raft. Can you step into it? Do you have to swim towards it?
If you can step in, then step in, then worry about inflating.
If you have to swim for it, (assuming you can swim), evaluate the water conditions, waves, wind, swell, and then decide if inflated vest will expedite you towards the raft, or pull in opposite direction. Sometimes it is best to swim to the raft before inflating vest.
Before inflating vest, make sure where you stand, or where you're jumping there are NO SHARP objects that can tear the vest.

And so on..... use your head, and run through your mind how reasonable stewards' instructions are. They are trained to "repeat the same mantra", and you have your head to think.

Always evaluate ANY life-saving devise in regards to surrounding conditions and your goal - will they help you or hinder you.

 

[jlai]

I must say, Tinami, that you are a total expert in travelling.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

Wow. This is getting more confusing every day. Haven't they searched the Gulf of Thailand already and that specific area?

The search area is something like 31,000 miles large, so it's very possible they either missed this, or didn't search that particular exact square mile yet.

 

[IceAlisa]

But if that is in fact the debris from the plane, what is it doing close to the original flightpath when the reports indicated it flew over Malaysia into the Straights of Malacca? That's what confuses me. Did it or did it not turn back?

 

[susan6]

But if that is in fact the debris from the plane, what is it doing close to the original flightpath when the reports indicated it flew over Malaysia into the Straights of Malacca? That's what confuses me. Did it or did it not turn back?

I think there were some reports that the Malaysian Air Force guy (who initially said that the plane was spotted on the reversed course by military radar) had recanted his story.

Who knows at this point...I'm hoping the Chinese satellite images are a bit more fruitful (although one of the pieces is estimated to be something like 78 x 70 feet....kind of big for a plane fragment?)

 

[IceAlisa]

I think there were some reports that the Malaysian Air Force guy (who initially said that the plane was spotted on the reversed course by military radar) had recanted his story.

Jeez. But you either see something on the radar or you don't. I don't think there is an in-between, unless they saw something else. But that something else would have had a functioning transponder and would be identifiable, right? Unless it was another UFO without a transponder. So wth is going on? By UFO I just mean what it stands for, and am not referring to alien spacecraft, ftr.

Who knows at this point...I'm hoping the Chinese satellite images are a bit more fruitful (although one of the pieces is estimated to be something like 78 x 70 feet....kind of big for a plane fragment?)

Who knows is right.

 

[inthemiddle]

The news

U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -2.04% Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

The data automatically sent by a plane engines shows that the plane continued to fly to unknown location, possibly to use it later for a different purpose.
The article link http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579434653903086282-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwMzExNDMyWj

 

[mrinalini]

I have a feeling that there has been no crash and that this plane may never be found. Or that it will eventually be found, the people will be okay, and that there'll be a 'fall guy or guys' to take the blame for what happened. There is just something so weird and fishy about this whole incident - the Malaysian government is up to no good and is covering up something.

 

[misskarne]

T
The data automatically sent by a plane engines shows that the plane continued to fly to unknown location, possibly to use it later for a different purpose.
The article link http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579434653903086282-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwMzExNDMyWj

Now THIS I find fishy. This is the first time I've ever heard of data being sent and downloaded from the engines independently of the rest of the plane. And why are the NTSB involved? This is so far removed from their jurisdiction it isn't funny, and they haven't been invited yet.

I have a feeling that there has been no crash and that this plane may never be found. Or that it will eventually be found, the people will be okay, and that there'll be a 'fall guy or guys' to take the blame for what happened. There is just something so weird and fishy about this whole incident - the Malaysian government is up to no good and is covering up something.

Actually, I just had a crazy thought. I seem to recall an ACI episode where the pilots accidentally turned off the transponder, causing a mid-air collision because they were showing up oddly on the radar.

What if that's what's happened here? If there was a computer problem, for example, that might have seemed minor, and then during the fix, they turned off the transponder by accident, and later crashed.

 

[mrinalini]

Now THIS I find fishy. This is the first time I've ever heard of data being sent and downloaded from the engines independently of the rest of the plane. And why are the NTSB involved? This is so far removed from their jurisdiction it isn't funny, and they haven't been invited yet.



Actually, I just had a crazy thought. I seem to recall an ACI episode where the pilots accidentally turned off the transponder, causing a mid-air collision because they were showing up oddly on the radar.

What if that's what's happened here? If there was a computer problem, for example, that might have seemed minor, and then during the fix, they turned off the transponder by accident, and later crashed.

Now I'm reading it's believed that there was no mid-air explosion because US spy satellites detected no heat signatures or something like that.

After reading of the legitimate report from the Kiwi oil rig worker who saw a flaming plane, I'm now thinking that maybe there was a crash. Whatever happened though, I still believe that the Malaysian government is colluding together on something nefarious, which, if one knows anything about those in power in that country, makes that scenario entirely likely.

 

[inthemiddle]

Now THIS I find fishy. This is the first time I've ever heard of data being sent and downloaded from the engines independently of the rest of the plane.

Actually I think 2009 Air France plane sent the automated data too, that how they knew there was some malfunction of the system before they were able to locate black boxes.
A Vietnam search mission found no wreckage from the missing Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 at the site Chinese satellite images suggested may contain debris of the plane according to a Reuters witness

 

[MsZem]

Actually, I just had a crazy thought. I seem to recall an ACI episode where the pilots accidentally turned off the transponder, causing a mid-air collision because they were showing up oddly on the radar.

What if that's what's happened here? If there was a computer problem, for example, that might have seemed minor, and then during the fix, they turned off the transponder by accident, and later crashed.

If you mean the Gol-Embraer midair collision, the problem wasn't that the latter wasn't showing up on radar, it was that the collision avoidance system didn't work without the transponder, so neither of the planes' crews knew that they were on a collision course - and they were on a collision course because the flight controllers hadn't instructed the Embraer to fly at the altitude it was supposed to. There was a really interesting article about the whole thing in Vanity Fair, including an explanation of how the Embraer would have appeared to ATC after the transponder stopped working (on page 5).

 

[jeffisjeff]

Now THIS I find fishy. This is the first time I've ever heard of data being sent and downloaded from the engines independently of the rest of the plane. And why are the NTSB involved? This is so far removed from their jurisdiction it isn't funny, and they haven't been invited yet.

The NTSB was likely invited to participate in the investigation.

The transmission and analysis of real-time sensor data is increasingly common on all kinds of heavy equipment. Nothing fishy or even surprising about it - more information means more efficiency and more safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/11/w...e-of-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370.html?_r=1

Planes like the 777 also have automatic systems that send out data on engine performance and other technical functions. Those signals go to a maintenance base, not to air traffic control. Air France used those signals to help determine what happened when its Flight 447 disappeared over the equatorial Atlantic. Investigators may be doing something similar in Kuala Lumpur.

 

[skatingfan5]

Chinese release satellite image (from Sunday) of possible floating debris from missing plane -- in location of original flight path when plane when missing.

And this morning's news had reports that the size of the objects from the Chinese satellite images were supposedly much too large to be part of the missing 777. So, another thing that lead to nowhere. Perhaps the engine data mentioned by several above will lead to something. Until then, conspiracy theories are spreading in all directions, but none of them giving any information to the families of those who were on board.

 

[alchemy void]

Surprise surprise....there are very conflicting reports as to whether Rolls Royce (the manufacturer of the engines in the 777) had received any engine data after the last known radio transmission. CNN had two aviation experts on, both with sources at Rolls Royce: one source said wouldn't confirm or deny the WSJ article and the other source was very cynical there was any further engine data.

So who knows. I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all, but the levels of confusion is getting ridiculous. All the conflicting reports and red herrings just don't add up. I can't help but think AirFrance 447 investigation was so much less chaotic.

My heart sinks for anyone connected to this tragedy.

 

[mag]

...
My heart sinks for anyone connected to this tragedy.

This.

I wonder if some of the confusion stems for the 24 hour instant news world we live in. Someone over hears someone say something, they mention it to someone else, and presto, you have a new breaking story. It is something I have noticed here on FSU. Someone asks a question like "Did he fall 4 times?" And then 6 posts later someone is stating that skater X fell 4 times. What was a question has morphed into a fact.

I could see someone musing about whether or not engine data was being transmitted and whether or not that would continue after the transponder was turned off. Some hears this and speaks with someone else who adds in that it might be possible, and so on and so on. With no news coming from the search and news sites wanting to keep their hits up, stuff gets put out their without proper fact checking or even proper sources. What it leads to is chaos and a terrible roller coaster ride for families waiting for real news.

 

[Buzz]

Here is an idea of how large and multi-national search party is which is doing the search:

Malaysia has deployed around 18 aircraft and 27 ships, including the submarine support vessel MV Mega Bakti which is able to detect objects in water at depths of up to 1,000m.

Huge numbers of maritime police, air force and other personnel are also taking part in the hunt.

China, Vietnam, USA, Thailand, Australia, Singapore, Indonesia, New Zealand, Japan, India and the Philippines are also contributing ships, aircraft and personnel, while other nations such as Brunei have also offered support.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26514556

 

[susan6]

The transmission and analysis of real-time sensor data is increasingly common on all kinds of heavy equipment. Nothing fishy or even surprising about it - more information means more efficiency and more safety.

Apparently some luxury models of cars will e-mail you when they need an oil change or have a specific problem (and the OnStar program can also do this)...so it seems reasonable that airplane engines will start being made with the ability to transmit status updates.

If the transponder was inoperative but the engines were still "communicating", that is pretty weird.

 

[liv]

This whole thing was originally sad and tragic but is now moving into the world of weird on top of it.

 

[IceAlisa]

Every day brings more details that confuse the issue, not clarify it. So the purported debris was not debris from the plane, too big and when the search and rescue teams got there, there was nothing.
And now this engine communication thing...

ETA:
New article:

Two U.S. officials tell ABC News the U.S. believes that the shutdown of two communication systems happened separately on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. One source said this indicates the plane did not come out of the sky because of a catastrophic failure.

The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m.

This indicates it may well have been a deliberate act, ABC News aviation consultant John Nance said.

U.S. officials said earlier that they have an "indication" the missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner may have crashed in the Indian Ocean and is moving the USS Kidd to the area to begin searching.

It's not clear what the indication was, but senior administration officials told ABC News the missing Malaysian flight continued to "ping" a satellite on an hourly basis after it lost contact with radar. The Boeing 777 jetliners are equipped with what is called the Airplane Health Management system in which they ping a satellite every hour. The number of pings would indicate how long the plane stayed aloft.

It's not clear, however, whether the satellite pings also indicate the plane's location.

The new information has greatly expanded the potential search area into the Indian Ocean.
"We have an indication the plane went down in the Indian Ocean," the senior Pentagon official said.

The link:

http://gma.yahoo.com/malaysia-airli...cean-194746310--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1

 

[Jenny]

And the radar signal from over the Strait of Malacca. First it was apparently enough to expand the search in a completely different geography - and keep expanding it into the Andaman Sea - and then we hear that it wasn't necessarily *the* plane, but a random unexplained signal.

We've also heard that the plane changed course completely, and then we now here that around the time of the last legitimate signal, it was turning *slightly,* which planes do all the time in the normal course of flight.

So much time seems to be wasted chasing these strands of dodgy information while every day means the plane/wreckage will be harder and harder to find, and for the families and loved ones, the pain is deepened and stretched amid the confusion and wasted efforts.