Missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370

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barbk

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Anybody who's read Tom Clancy's submarine warfare novels got a bit of an education in how sounds transfer through the layers of water temperature and salinity. I assume they're involving some really good scientists/engineers familiar with these issues.

So tough on the the families.
 
BaileyCatts

BaileyCatts

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Really stupid question but ..... so lets say the plane flew on autopilot until it completely drains all fuel. What happens at that point? Does the plane continue to glide on its set course and just slowly descend and almost come to a skid across the water (like that plane in NYC did) with maybe minimal damage done to the fuselage and it just slowly sunk? Or would it take a nose dive and drop out of the sky like a rock and crash into the ocean and break apart into pieces? Its just so weird that they still have not found any type of wreckage at all. No seats, suitcases, clothes, purses and all the other carry-on stuff that would be in the cabin. Unless there was wreckage early on but by this time (and if they are even looking in the right place), it all just became water logged and sunk already?
 
misskarne

misskarne

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BaileyCatts said:
Really stupid question but ..... so lets say the plane flew on autopilot until it completely drains all fuel. What happens at that point? Does the plane continue to glide on its set course and just slowly descend and almost come to a skid across the water (like that plane in NYC did) with maybe minimal damage done to the fuselage and it just slowly sunk? Or would it take a nose dive and drop out of the sky like a rock and crash into the ocean and break apart into pieces? Its just so weird that they still have not found any type of wreckage at all. No seats, suitcases, clothes, purses and all the other carry-on stuff that would be in the cabin. Unless there was wreckage early on but by this time (and if they are even looking in the right place), it all just became water logged and sunk already?
Click to expand...

The plane that ditched in the Hudson was a controlled landing. It had pilots and they were manipulating flaps and lowering speeds and doing all those things that slow a plane down for landing - hence the gentle landing.

A plane that ran out of fuel in mid-air with no pilots to save it would stall and eventually tumble out of the sky, because there is no one to control it, no-one to deploy flaps and slats and kick the rudder and keep her level. What you hope could happen if the pilots were in control. If they were not, the plane would have tumbled out of the sky at considerable pieces and smashed to smithereens when it hit the ocean.

Remember too that we are talking about one of the roughest, nastiest areas of the ocean. Anything that stayed on the surface wouldn't have for long.
 
MsZem

MsZem

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BaileyCatts said:
Really stupid question but ..... so lets say the plane flew on autopilot until it completely drains all fuel. What happens at that point? Does the plane continue to glide on its set course and just slowly descend and almost come to a skid across the water (like that plane in NYC did) with maybe minimal damage done to the fuselage and it just slowly sunk? Or would it take a nose dive and drop out of the sky like a rock and crash into the ocean and break apart into pieces? Its just so weird that they still have not found any type of wreckage at all. No seats, suitcases, clothes, purses and all the other carry-on stuff that would be in the cabin. Unless there was wreckage early on but by this time (and if they are even looking in the right place), it all just became water logged and sunk already?
Click to expand...
Like misskarne wrote, it would eventually stall and go in the water. I don't know if it would go into a phugoid cycle - climbing and then diving - before crashing. If a plane experiences fuel starvation with pilots controlling it, however, they can glide for some distance and they have an air turbine for some very basic functions. This happened to an Air Transat flight over the Atlantic back in 2001, but they were fortunately near enough an emergency landing location and were able to glide successfully and land in the Azores with no loss of life.

The Hudson landing was about the best circumstances you could hope for in a water landing - a relatively calm, straight body of water with lots of resources in the vicinity to help the survivors. Since Ethiopian 961 was discussed earlier in the thread, here's what a (relatively) controlled landing looks like in somewhat rougher conditions - and that's not even close to what conditions would be like far from land and in the southern Indian Ocean.

Whatever was on the surface following the crash likely sunk or was carried away with the currents.
 
misskarne

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I also meant to add, once the engines have shut down, the electrics on the plane start shutting down. They have a small reserve, but not enough to run the autopilot for much longer. So there would be nothing trying to hold the plane level.
 
BaileyCatts

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Thanks. Its all just so sad for those families. I hope they do eventually find the plane just for their own peace.
 
misskarne

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ABC News reporting that one of the RAAF P3 Orions has picked up a signal in the same area that the Ocean Shield device has picked up signals.

Could the batteries still be alive on those black boxes? It seems incredible...
 
misskarne

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PRIME MINISTER TONY ABBOTT PRESS CONFERENCE AT 1:45PM AEST (half an hour from now)

The talk is that he will announce they've found the black box!

I have to go back to work, won't see it.
 
Jenny

Jenny

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Here is a report on the Australian PM's statement today.

I had wondered why the PM was taking such an active role in this - yes it's all in the spirit of helping out in a crisis and the proximity of the search to Australia makes it natural for the country to offer its resources, but is it normal for a head of state to take the lead role when it's not his airline, it's not his search, the bulk of the passengers were not Australian nationals (were there any?) and the target area, while closer to Australia than any other country, isn't on their soil or in their immediate waters?

Now I see what may very well be the motivation - it's political, and it's economic. The article linked says it's "Australia in China" week, no doubt to promote trade. At the same time I heard from a friend this morning who does business in Malaysia that they are hurting - the country relies heavily on Chinese business and tourism, and the way the plane's disappearance has been handled is turning China and its people against Malaysia in a big way. Perhaps the PM of Australia saw an opportunity here - I'm sure it's also with good intent, but in the longer term, this could be a massive step in the two countries' relations - politically and economically, as well as from a PR standpoint.
 
Lacey

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Saw something about the pings were caused by the very ships that were searching...
 
Vagabond

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From three weeks ago, and not specifically about the black boxes: Why the Official Explanation of MH370’s Demise Doesn’t Hold Up: Outside satellite experts say investigators could be looking in the wrong ocean.

Authorities have treated the conclusion that the plane crashed in the ocean west of Australia as definitive, owing to a much-vaunted mathematical analysis of satellite signals sent by the plane. But scientists and engineers outside of the investigation have been working to verify that analysis, and many say that it just doesn’t hold up.
Click to expand...

:duh:
 
Fridge_Break

Fridge_Break

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I don't want to get my hopes up yet either, but what else could it be from? Has there been another plane of similar size that has crashed into the ocean somewhat recently? I think they've found some solid evidence and it's just a matter of time before they can get the piece analyzed.
 
MarieM

MarieM

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There has been at least 2 other planes that crashed near the Réunion. And it could come from both of them.
And La Réunion is nowhere near India. Look for Madagascar.
 
skatesindreams

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When the experts from Boeing, and other authorities, arrive; they will be able to confirm whether this is from Malaysia 370 because of serial numbers specific to the plane.
 
susan6

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Some authorities are saying that while they haven't looked up serial numbers yet, this wing flap does seem to be a part from a Boeing 777. And since all 777's in existence are accounted for except for the missing one, it's probably from that plane.
A major problem is that finding it on Reunion means it drifted across a very large body of water, so the search area has vastly expanded. I'm wondering if some of the shells and barnacles found on the flap might give some sort of clue as to where the crash occurred; maybe they are of a specific species that can be traced.
 
Skittl1321

Skittl1321

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Vash01 said:
The latest on CNN says that the serial number on the wing matches a Boeing 777.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/world/mh370-debris-investigation/index.html

I believe there is at least a chance (more so than it was last year at this time) that it could be from the missing plane. I hope they can find some other parts. It must be excruciating for the family members.
Click to expand...

If it matches a 777, isn't it nearly certainly from the missing plane? There are no other 777 wings missing...

I hope this helps people find some closure.
 
V

Vash01

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Skittl1321 said:
If it matches a 777, isn't it nearly certainly from the missing plane? There are no other 777 wings missing...

I hope this helps people find some closure.
Click to expand...

From the article, Boeing is certain that it is from that plane. This was the only 777 that is currently missing.
 
Cachoo

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Especially after watching NOVA last week I am fascinated to know what happened that unfortunate night. Nothing really adds up and even if more wreckage is located we still may never know what happened. But I do hope for some revelation if for nothing else than for the peace for all of the families.
 
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