Miami Building Collapse

Apparently, many are from Israel and South America. On MSNBC this morning they said the Israeli government was offering to send in search and rescue dogs to help out.
Yes, it's like the building was Argentinian, Israeli/Orthodox Jewish and Venezuelan. The Chabad synagogue down the street is missing several members. :( There are a lot of Israelis in Miami because weather.
 
But most snowbirds would have left by now. (My MIL winters in a similar building in Hollywood, but on an intercoastal, not the beach. Same structure - open parking under building, with building above. She came back north earlier this month.)
 
Global Affairs is reporting that there are preliminary reports that there are some Canadians affected by the collapse.

Snowbirds who went for the winter should be home by now but I guess some could have gone for a shorter time through the winter due to quarantine restrictions and returned more recently. It could also mean that there are Canadians that own units in the building and they are trying to determine if they are among the missing or not.

Thankful that my building is built on solid rock. We have no basement or underground parking.
 
Figuring out who is missing is a big challenge. Many snowbirds who own the units rent them during the off season. They know who signed the paperwork, but probably haven't met the renters nor know how many people would have been in the unit. This isn't like a fire when neighbors get out and can give the info to the first responders.
 
Global Affairs is reporting that there are preliminary reports that there are some Canadians affected by the collapse.

Snowbirds who went for the winter should be home by now but I guess some could have gone for a shorter time through the winter due to quarantine restrictions and returned more recently. It could also mean that there are Canadians that own units in the building and they are trying to determine if they are among the missing or not.

Thankful that my building is built on solid rock. We have no basement or underground parking.
4 people they announced last night. I haven’t checked today ?.
 
Figuring out who is missing is a big challenge. Many snowbirds who own the units rent them during the off season. They know who signed the paperwork, but probably haven't met the renters nor know how many people would have been in the unit. This isn't like a fire when neighbors get out and can give the info to the first responders.
I think most would have contacted loved ones but you can always hope. ?
 
Because this situation isn't hellish enough, there is now concern about the possible landing of Hurricane Elsa at the site.

Officials in Surfside will be concerned about not just the high-speed winds picking up debris but rain flooding the already-saturated site, Fugate said. Dust and fragments could float to low-lying parts of the site already cleared by rescue teams, hindering progress to find victims.

“Areas that they may have trenched out and are working in could fill in with not just water but with more debris,” Fugate said.

Ray Jadallah, assistant chief for Miami-Dade Fire Rescue, told condo family members at a private meeting that strong winds could entirely topple the remaining building, the Miami Herald reported.

“There is a chance,” he said. “It depends on how strong the wind is, how sustained the wind is.”
 
A building in North Miami Beach has been ordered closed and evacuated after an inspection report found it to be structurally and electrically unsafe. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252544473.html

Serious question, how much can you take when you're ordered to evacuate? Obviously, you can't take furniture but are you able to take everything that has value to you? If not, will someone else get it for you or will it be lost should you not be able to return?
 
A building in North Miami Beach has been ordered closed and evacuated after an inspection report found it to be structurally and electrically unsafe. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252544473.html

Serious question, how much can you take when you're ordered to evacuate? Obviously, you can't take furniture but are you able to take everything that has value to you? If not, will someone else get it for you or will it be lost should you not be able to return?
Depends on how much time you have - if the building is condemned for demolition it may never be recoverable.
 
Serious question, how much can you take when you're ordered to evacuate?
As much as you can get out in the time allotted. If you have time and a large vehicle, you could get furniture.

Because of the many wildfires here, I have seen all sorts of scenarios including one I was caught up in. If you have a lot of warning, you can make multiple trips to another safer location. We put most of the bikes, some furniture, and lots of memorabilia in a storage locker when there was an evacuation warning a few miles from us. We also had go bags and also put some stuff in our cars ahead of time. But some people get no warning and just grab what they can and go.
 
AS stated many times, I live down here. The little burg of Surfside is probably a 20 minute drive from my place.

Just a preface about my area of the country - South Florida experienced a housing boom of great intensity over the past few decades. Most that come here want to live near the water - if they can afford it and that's another huge topic, so apartment buildings / condos are erected on every scrap of land bordering any body of water (the MIA metro area has not only the Atlantic Ocean, but Biscayne Bay and many intracoastal waterways). It's kind of expected that corners are cut between the city's permitting dept., developers and contractors. We will see if the speed of building will cause issues in the future.

Anyway, the building that collapsed was built in 1981, so the above may not be true in this case. I work as a paralegal in the insurance claim industry so, I had the opportunity to speak to an engineer from Chicago working on an unrelated case who told me something interesting - South Florida is deadly for buildings / structures more than anywhere else: No elevation, extreme heat and sunlight, humidity, sea salt, torrential rains and wind storms (aka hurricanes) wear down structures much faster than in other parts of the country. Also, we have sandy soil with a high water table which isn't the best base for buildings.

Secondly, Condo hell in South FL means there are tons of Condo Associations calling the shots on building maintenance, elected by the owners in the building. They are not necessarily experienced in handling maintenance and some like the status (even if it's unpaid - a joke is that they get kickbacks from contractors hired to take care of the buildings) So, another issue is unqualified contractors are responsible for building upkeep.
 
AS stated many times, I live down here. The little burg of Surfside is probably a 20 minute drive from my place.

Just a preface about my area of the country - South Florida experienced a housing boom of great intensity over the past few decades. Most that come here want to live near the water - if they can afford it and that's another huge topic, so apartment buildings / condos are erected on every scrap of land bordering any body of water (the MIA metro area has not only the Atlantic Ocean, but Biscayne Bay and many intracoastal waterways). It's kind of expected that corners are cut between the city's permitting dept., developers and contractors. We will see if the speed of building will cause issues in the future.

Anyway, the building that collapsed was built in 1981, so the above may not be true in this case. I work as a paralegal in the insurance claim industry so, I had the opportunity to speak to an engineer from Chicago working on an unrelated case who told me something interesting - South Florida is deadly for buildings / structures more than anywhere else: No elevation, extreme heat and sunlight, humidity, sea salt, torrential rains and wind storms (aka hurricanes) wear down structures much faster than in other parts of the country. Also, we have sandy soil with a high water table which isn't the best base for buildings.

Secondly, Condo hell in South FL means there are tons of Condo Associations calling the shots on building maintenance, elected by the owners in the building. They are not necessarily experienced in handling maintenance and some like the status (even if it's unpaid - a joke is that they get kickbacks from contractors hired to take care of the buildings) So, another issue is unqualified contractors are responsible for building upkeep.
Where I live property Management companies are hired to oversee condos, non-freehold townhouses and apartments. If you are buying you def look for a unit that has a very good property mgmt co as they are not all good.
 
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Where I live property Management companies are hired to oversee condos, non-freehold townhouses and apartments. If you are buying you def look for a unit that has a very good property mgmt co as they are not all go…
That's good. Miami is kind of a Banana Republic, though.
 
When I was condo president, we had to do a huge assessment (my share was $10K) to get sprinklers installed. There was huge pushback, until I finally told them they HAD to be installed or the building would be condemned and we'd all have to move out. It took over five years to get everyone to pay up. So frustrating.

The building also needed a new roof, as one side of the building leaked pretty badly during storms. That was also a nightmare because the people on the side of the building that didn't leak didn't want to pay, and when I tried to explain that it was also damaging other parts of the building, they still didn't care. It still hadn't been repaired when I moved out two years ago, and I hadn't been president for seven years at that point.

Maybe this will be a wake up call for condo associations. Or they'll just stick their heads further in the sand.
 
Where I live property Management companies are hired to oversee condos, non-freehold townhouses and apartments. If you are buying you def look for a unit that has a very good property mgmt co as they are not all go…
Yes, most condo associations in my area hire a mgmt co for administrative tasks - they handle dues receipt and legal paperwork, keep records, etc, and I would assume alert/advise the condo association on required inspections, help procure contractors and supplies, but ultimately decisions rest with the condo association as PrincessLeppard describes. Hopefully, condo associations will be more proactive about repair needs going forward.
 
Yes, most condo associations in my area hire a mgmt co for administrative tasks - they handle dues receipt and legal paperwork, keep records, etc, and I would assume alert/advise the condo association on required inspections, help procure contractors and supplies, but ultimately decisions rest with the condo association as PrincessLeppard describes. Hopefully, condo associations will be more proactive about repair needs going forward.
It’s been about 15 years (wow ?) since I sold and moved from my condo. We paid condo fees which went towards maintenance, repairs etc etc. I assume the U.S. has the same? So the property mgmt co handles all requests for repairs, problems, contractors, etc etc. There was a board which involved the property mgmt company.

I don’t really know how everyday people have the background though to deal with this type of horrific event. By that I mean the prevention of it.
 
It’s been about 15 years (wow ?) since I sold and moved from my condo. We paid condo fees which went towards maintenance, repairs etc etc. I assume the U.S. has the same? So the property mgmt co handles all requests for repairs, problems, contractors, etc etc. There was a board which involved the property mgmt company.

I don’t really know how everyday people have the background though to deal with this type of horrific event. By that I mean the prevention of it.
Yes, condo owners (and HOAs) in the U.S. pay monthly fees that get collected by the mgmt co that the board hires. The board consists of residents who are elected by residents but depending on the particular residence, a rep from the mgmt co might attend board meetings (or might not). In terms of repair requests, generally the board is the first point of contact if something happens...for ex: the garage door needs repair, there's a leak in the roof, etc. The board may have a company they've used before, or they may contact the mgmt co for a recommendation. The mgmt co is able to assist but they are not on-site, they only know what's happening if a board member or other resident contacts them.

Condo associations, if they're managed appropriately, will have a reserve fund (funded through a certain percentage of everyone's fees) for repairs and other surprise expenses but when it comes to something big, usually there needs to be a special assessment. When I moved into my townhouse, they were in the middle of a 3-year special assessment (IIRC it was $30 extra per month) which I think was to replenish their reserve fund.

The suggested repairs to the Miami building were $15 million. I can't remember how many units there were but the special assessment would obviously have been huge. So the association chose to sit on it. Unfortunately, that was a big mistake. :(
 
I know this sounds kind of grisly but ... is there any point in looking more? Realistically there's no chance anyone still missing survived right?
 
I know this sounds kind of grisly but ... is there any point in looking more? Realistically there's no chance anyone still missing survived right?
They are suspending searching to knock down the remaining part of the building, and there's a hurricane headed in our direction for early next week.
 
It’s been about 15 years (wow ?) since I sold and moved from my condo. We paid condo fees which went towards maintenance, repairs etc etc. I assume the U.S. has the same? So the property mgmt co handles all requests for repairs, problems, contractors, etc etc. There was a board which involved the property mgmt company.

I don’t really know how everyday people have the background though to deal with this type of horrific event. By that I mean the prevention of it.
Each HOA will have different bylaws of what is covered by the dues/assessments. Some condo HOAs have reserve funds, some do not. We saw great divides on HOA dues and bylaws.

My son's HOA has a small fee which covers the lawn maintenance of shared areas. That's it.

One townhome we looked at did not have reserve funds set aside, just snow removal and lawn maintenance.

Our current townhome has a large reserve fund, but the board is considering gates to the drive which would be an additional assessment on our high dues. If it is passed, we won't necessarily benefit from it based on our location in the community, but won't have a choice in assessed fees.
 
Each HOA will have different bylaws of what is covered by the dues/assessments. Some condo HOAs have reserve funds, some do not. We saw great divides on HOA dues and bylaws.

My son's HOA has a small fee which covers the lawn maintenance of shared areas. That's it.

One townhome we looked at did not have reserve funds set aside, just snow removal and lawn maintenance.

Our current townhome has a large reserve fund, but the board is considering gates to the drive which would be an additional assessment on our high dues. If it is passed, we won't necessarily benefit from it based on our location in the community, but won't have a choice in assessed fees.
Yes different places can have different things it covers and doesn’t cover.
 
I know this sounds kind of grisly but ... is there any point in looking more? Realistically there's no chance anyone still missing survived right?
They need to recover the remains for the family. No there won’t be any survivors at this point.
 
I think family members might want something to bury.
Yes, I thought of that, so very tragic, but the relatives would want something. I hope that, now that the remains of the building are being torn down tonight, they will be able to really dig for bodies--in the past week they have been concerned that digging might have brought down the building on the digging personnel.
 
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Article on the discussions among the condo board and residents about needed repairs prior to the collapse: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/04/us/documents-construction-miami-building-collapse/index.html

In a series of presentations delivered in the fall and winter of 2020, residents were shown slides titled "why we have to do all this now" and told that the driveway on top of the building's garage had "very poor drainage (design flaw)."
"There is no waterproofing layer over the garage in the driveway or any area except the pool deck and planters. This has exposed the garage to water intrusion for 40 years. Where there is waterproofing, it has failed. Water has gotten underneath and caused additional damage to the concrete," one presentation, from October of that year, reads.
"The drainage problems must be corrected so that water drains off to the sides (code issue)," says another December 2020 presentation, the first half of the sentence underlined for emphasis.
 
The building fell straight down after the controlled explosions knocked out all the support columns. The original collapse also fell straight down as well, indicating all the support columns had failed simultaneously as well.

I am sure they will quickly rule out that the original collapse was due to a criminal act. I will be very curious to read the final engineering report on what precipitated the disaster as I find this unusual.
 

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