Miami Building Collapse

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
20,033
I am sure you are now aware of that 13 story apartment collapse. Right now 1 is confirmed dead but 55 are unaccounted for.

There is a surveillance video of the collapse and it is like looking at one of those controlled demolitions you have all seen.

Mighty scary stuff.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,064
The video is crazy. At first, the breaking news reports made it seem like a little section of balconies broke off. No, more than half of the building collapsed.

There was a big sinkhole at an intersection 800 feet from where I live yesterday afternoon. Many of us are wondering if that could’ve been the case there, as well. But I read a few comments from people that live(d) in the building and they said there have been major problems for almost 10 years. Unfortunately there is a ton of laziness and overlooking of things all around this city.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,037
Yeah I just saw this now. Horrifying. 51 people missing? I read that there was roof work being done but I think it’s too early for anything accurate. Just horrible.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
51,252
I didn't know about this. Didn't turn on tvtoday. Sad.
 

DFJ

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,602
Yeah I just saw this now. Horrifying. 51 people missing? I read that there was roof work being done but I think it’s too early for anything accurate. Just horrible.

That figure has been updated to 99 missing. Now, a fire, so the search has been stopped while the fire fighters put it out. Jesus.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,017
The surveillance video is horrifying. The building fell in like it was blown up by dynamite or something. The middle of the building collapsed into itself first, leaving a portion of the building disconnected. Then a few seconds later, that complete section collapsed onto itself. I don't know how anyone could have survived. Shades of 9/11.

WTF happened? How can the construction of a modern building be so shoddy that it can collapse like that without warning?
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
16,428

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
20,033
What I find disturbing in the video is that the building just dropped straight down. This means that all the support structures had to experience failure at the same time. If only half of the supports had failed, the building would have fallen over as a tree. The big question is what caused the supports to all fail. Someone mentioned sinkhole, that could the answer. You can bet that there will be a complete investigation as the FBI is involved as well.
 

BittyBug

The missing ingredient
Messages
23,675
Add in that it's Miami where every Tom, Dick, and Harry in construction has the local politicians on a string.
I'm not sure it's much different anywhere else. I'm in the middle of a construction boom and I've been watching buildings go up left and right. I cannot tell you how cheaply they are made, but when they're done they slap on a fancy facade and unless you saw them go up you'd have no clue.
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,020
Mayor of Surfside just interviewed on national news, saying he can't understand how a building only 40 years old can collapse, it just doesn't happen, he used to renovate buildings. Uh, b/c it was built on wetlands and the materials were probably crap?

My parents live in a condo building built in 2005. There are some issues with ventilation and plumbing...nothing horrible but definitely builder shortcuts. I'm currently shopping for a condo. I'm starting to feel like I should look at older buildings.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,017
I'm not sure it's much different anywhere else. I'm in the middle of a construction boom and I've been watching buildings go up left and right. I cannot tell you how cheaply they are made, but when they're done they slap on a fancy facade and unless you saw them go up you'd have no clue.

Even with shoddy construction, shouldn’t there be some kind of redundant supports so that the whole building doesn’t collapse at once without warning? I still can’t wrap my head around the fact this collapsed in a heap. I’ve only ever seen collapses like this from terrorist attacks, severe earthquakes (Christchurch, NZ), or dynamite.

I could believe an old wood-framed building could collapse. But I would have thought modern high rises would have had steel framing and multiple supports that would make something like this impossible.

I wonder if this will become as big of a scandal as Grenfell has become in the U.K., and lead to some real reform and requirement to inspect and remediate potentially faulty buildings. It’s terrifying that you can be watching tv on your sofa and five seconds later be buried alive under 12 stories of apartment building debris. Just unreal.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,064
The thing about Miami is there are many, many apartment buildings (maybe not 12 stories high, but not too far off) that have the parking on the ground level in a covered parking situation but without really having a full base- if that makes sense, and beams/supports to hold up the higher floors. They design it that way because of flooding/hurricane weather, I’d guess, but with sinkholes happening all the time here and flooding happening in a matter of minutes on both Miami Beach and downtown/Brickell neighborhoods, it just makes you wonder how easily something designed like that could topple down with one moderate sinkhole.

ETA- if you’ve ever driven the Miami to Key West route, you’ll see plenty of hurricane-ready homes that have a rather flimsy-looking base and then the homes a good 10 or so feet above the ground to avoid flooding, but I don’t really think those would ever survive a serious hurricane so 🤔

I can’t really tell from photos what the situation was on the first floor for this building, but I read a comment on a Miami social media page that since the 40 year inspection was happening, there was way too much equipment on the roof. It was supposed to be spread out because of the weight issue, but it was all pushed into one area. But I don’t know if we will find out the real cause until everything is cleared away.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,773
The thing about Miami is there are many, many apartment buildings (maybe not 12 stories high, but not too far off) that have the parking on the ground level in a covered parking situation but without really having a full base- if that makes sense, and beams/supports to hold up the higher floors.
Reading this makes me think that if I lived in the Marina Towers in Chicago, I'd move out immediately. :slinkaway
 

once_upon

Vaccinated
Messages
19,136
If @tony was safe was one of my first thoughts when I heard about the collapse. Im glad you are ok.
I dont think many of the 99 or more people missing will be found alive. The video of the collapse is horrifying.
 

BittyBug

The missing ingredient
Messages
23,675
I have a friend who does demolitions. He said he thinks the columns failed because of settlements, which aligns with reports that the building has been sinking since the 90’s.
I can only hope that those who were trapped inside went in an instant but I’m sure that is scant comfort to their loved ones.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
67,786
I have a friend who does demolitions. He said he thinks the columns failed because of settlements, which aligns with reports that the building has been sinking since the 90’s.
I can only hope that those who were trapped inside went in an instant but I’m sure that is scant comfort to their loved ones.
This is the result when you build on unstable substrates. Same as building on barrier islands. Developer greed and people's desire for that "ocean view." = future disaster
 

BittyBug

The missing ingredient
Messages
23,675
Yes, I read that the building was built on “reclaimed” wetlands. While there are certainly plenty of places built on infill (NYC’s Battery Park, Boston’s Back Bay, etc.) there’s risk there. Heartbreaking for the victims abs their families.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
67,786
Yes, I read that the building was built on “reclaimed” wetlands. While there are certainly plenty of places built on infill (NYC’s Battery Park, Boston’s Back Bay, etc.) there’s risk there. Heartbreaking for the victims abs their families.
My dad was in construction. The county decided to pave a road and hired him as supervisor. He told them the substrate would break down and no amount of fill would keep it from doing so, especially with farmers moving tractors and heavy grain trucks. They insisted he build the road. It lasted about 5 years.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
Messages
22,789
Yes, I read that the building was built on “reclaimed” wetlands. While there are certainly plenty of places built on infill (NYC’s Battery Park, Boston’s Back Bay, etc.) there’s risk there. Heartbreaking for the victims abs their families.
The entire river side section of Back Bay in Boston had to have their pilings replaced to keep the buildings from collapsing. Work started in the late 70s and wasn’t finished until the late 90s. And they will have to start another cycle soon. https://www.wsj.com/articles/bostons-priciest-real-estate-is-sinking-into-the-earth-11583416663
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,860
A Miami structural engineer told the Washington Post that sea spray could have eroded the steel supports inside the building(!):

Paul Zilio, a senior principal with Miami-based structural engineering firm Bliss & Nyitray, was not involved in the design of the building but said Miami’s structural engineers have spent a lot of time in the last day discussing what might have happened.
He said that while a thorough forensics evaluation is ongoing, a few things could have contributed to the collapse.

The building had recently undergone roof work, but that extra weight would unlikely to be the cause. “Even if the roof collapsed, I don’t believe the next floor would have collapsed,” Zilio said.

He said the building settling, documented in the 1990s to be 2 millimeters (0.08 inches) per year, could have contributed to failure “because if that continued for the 40-year life of the building, the total of over three inches of settlement could certainly contribute to the collapse.”

Ocean sea spray is also a danger, Zilio said: “Over time the saltwater can penetrate the concrete and corrode the reinforcing steel, causing the reinforcing steel to expand. This expansion cracks the concrete and eventually chunks of concrete spall off, weakening the capacity and making the reinforcing steel even more exposed to corrosion.”

He said garages are particularly vulnerable to sea spray: “If you look at the outside of this condo building, the stucco and waterproofing protect the structural elements. But the lower level parking garage is exposed to moisture from rain, humidity, cars driving by, and especially sea spray due to the building being on the beach.”
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,037
It’ll take a lengthy amount of time to find the reason. I hope they will be examining all buildings. Obviously a massive job. So tragic this happened.

We def get sinkholes in Canada (my city omg for sure). But we don’t have the same weather conditions with hurricanes etc., climate, the water etc etc. Hopefully buildings are checked here too. So sad for the victims 😢.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,832
This is the result when you build on unstable substrates. Same as building on barrier islands. Developer greed and people's desire for that "ocean view." = future disaster
My parents had a condo in Margate Towers on the beach in New Jersey and the building looked a lot like this one, also dated from about 40 years ago. It did NOT have parking underneath, it had a solid foundation, but every barrier island is made of silt and sand. I've been thinking about it all day because my stepsister bought a little studio there last year. :(

And I'm still wanly hoping that some of those unaccounted for are snowbirds back home in their summer residences in Michigan or wherever and haven't checked in in Florida.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
67,786
My parents had a condo in Margate Towers on the beach in New Jersey and the building looked a lot like this one, also dated from about 40 years ago. It did NOT have parking underneath, it had a solid foundation, but every barrier island is made of silt and sand. I've been thinking about it all day because my stepsister bought a little studio there last year. :(

And I'm still wanly hoping that some of those unaccounted for are snowbirds back home in their summer residences in Michigan or wherever and haven't checked in in Florida.
Apparently, many are from Israel and South America. On MSNBC this morning they said the Israeli government was offering to send in search and rescue dogs to help out.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information