Ladies Figure Skating 1977-80

Seerek

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Which result was more of the impetus for the switch to factored placements? Was it related to Linda vs. Annet?

I've been trying to research articles, but no success.
 

Maximillian

RIP TA
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Which result was more of the impetus for the switch to factored placements? Was it related to Linda vs. Annet?

I've been trying to research articles, but no success.
I could be wrong, but I would imagine that the switch had to be in the works before Lake Placid, it just seems like a rather drastic move in terms of scoring to happen over the course of just six months.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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The new judging system introduced for the 1981 season immediately helped Denise Biellmann.

A shame the skater only stuck around for the one year. I believe she turned pro because of training costs. Biellmann could have made a run for the Olympic title in 1984 (and even 1988).
 

Seerek

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I could be wrong, but I would imagine that the switch had to be in the works before Lake Placid, it just seems like a rather drastic move in terms of scoring to happen over the course of just six months.

Yes, I think you're right. Singles skaters were given a full season notice (I believe early 1971) of the introduction of the short program (introduced at the beginning of the 1972-73 season).
 

gkelly

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The new judging system introduced for the 1981 season immediately helped Denise Biellmann.

I would call it a new scoring system, not a new judging system.

The judges didn't have to change anything about the ways they arrived at their judgments.

If they wanted to try to manipulate the results, contravening or ignoring their actual judgments about the skating, they would do so through different ways of assigning scores, not different ways of reaching judgments.

If they just wanted to honestly judge what they saw, they didn't need to make any changes at all.

The accountants needed to make changes.
 

olympic

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10,906
The new judging system introduced for the 1981 season immediately helped Denise Biellmann.

A shame the skater only stuck around for the one year. I believe she turned pro because of training costs. Biellmann could have made a run for the Olympic title in 1984 (and even 1988).

One of the biggest letdowns was Biellmann's retirement in 1981. I think she would've made Sarajevo '84 tons more interesting: Denise-Kat-Roz triumvirate going for Olympic Gold would've made things a lot more interesting. As it was meh.
 

bardtoob

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One of the biggest letdowns was Biellmann's retirement in 1981. I think she would've made Sarajevo '84 tons more interesting: Denise-Kat-Roz triumvirate going for Olympic Gold would've made things a lot more interesting. As it was meh.

This is interesting ... It might have made it more competitive when considering:

Figures: Vodorezova, Roz, Ivanova, Witt*
Freeskating: Beillmann (Lz), Chin (F), Zayak (Lp)

* I am a bit surprised by Witt's figure placement here since she was 8th in figures at 1983 Worlds.
 
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Foolhardy Ham Lint

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One of the biggest letdowns was Biellmann's retirement in 1981. I think she would've made Sarajevo '84 tons more interesting: Denise-Kat-Roz triumvirate going for Olympic Gold would've made things a lot more interesting. As it was meh.

It always frustrated me how Elaine Zayak became persona non grata in the US after she was beaten by Sumners at the 1982 National Championships. Along with rising star, Tiffany Chin, the two of them out skated everyone else in the free skating portions in Sarajevo by a mile.
 

olympic

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It always frustrated me how Elaine Zayak became persona non grata in the US after she was beaten by Sumners at the 1982 National Championships. Along with rising star, Tiffany Chin, the two of them out skated everyone else in the free skating portions in Sarajevo by a mile.

Yeah. I have a lot to say about that. Zayak was a fave of mine. First of all, it is a shame that Zayak bombed the LP at '82 Nats. If she would've stood up on her jumps which was w/in the realm of her capabilities, she would've retained her title but it probably would've been square one for her in '83, because the judges put Sumners w/ a fall in the LP at '83 Nats in front of a relatively clean Elaine. The USFSA loved Sumners but I admit that she had superior SS [stroking, straight back, etc.] and Zayak was also hurt by the Zayak rule.

She was also hurt [figuratively and literally] in her WD from '83 Worlds. I often wonder where a healthy Zayak would've placed there. The results were a mess all the way around - Sumners won and people that Zayak could've beaten [Leistner, Vodorezova] were on the podium. However, IDK if Zayak's 9th in CF that year was a result of a bad performance due to her chronic foot, or if the subject injury played a part there. Witt's placement was troublesome in determining where Zayak would've landed, in that she was 8th after CF, just in front of Zayak and won the SP, yet still finished 4th, which IDK if Zayak could've matched. Hard to figure out. It REALLY would've been determined in more decent figures for Zayak [enough buffer over Witt, but close enough to Leistner and Vodorezova] to get on the podium. If she was 9th due to her subject injury, there was a great chance she could've been higher. If it was as someone on FSU suggested because the figures selected for '83 Worlds were ones in which gave Zayak and her chronic foot problems, she was probably doomed to be off the podium.

Anyway, by '84, the USFSA had their darlings [Roz, Tiffany] and Zayak, who I don't think was ever really highly regarded by the USFSA because she was not an ice princess, was no. 3. Obviously, the USFSA had a leg to stand on because of Roz and Tiffany's SS, but one has to wonder during that time what type of vote-swapping was going on in the figures to put favored skaters where the establishment [US and Worlds] wanted them.

---

With re to Biellmann in '84, it does occur to me that she was never completely consistent - doubled jump in the SP at '81 Worlds, meltdown in the LP at '80 Worlds. Not great in figures, so no guarantee of a win but I think like I said she would've doubled the drama for podium finishes.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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Having seen both Elaine and Rosalyn skate in person, I wasn't too keen on Sumner's jumping technique. Sure, she generated a lot of power, but those triples were so whippy. If the set-up was slightly off, Rosalyn would tend to double them.

I did love how much Sumners blossomed into such an outstanding professional skater, though. She was extremely versatile, and could skate to almost anything.
 

olympic

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Having seen both Elaine and Rosalyn skate in person, I wasn't too keen on Sumner's jumping technique. Sure, she generated a lot of power, but those triples were so whippy. If the set-up was slightly off, Rosalyn would tend to double them.

I did love how much Sumners blossomed into such an outstanding professional skater, though. She was extremely versatile, and could skate to almost anything.

Watching them both skate live, do you have an opinion on them head-to-head? Did the judges get the scoring right?
 

Triple loop

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In 1983, the USFSA could care less about Elaine Zayak. It couldn't be proud of her winning the Worlds in 1982 from 7th place. Her technique in jump combinations and transitions were unmatched by Sumners. If she hadn't withdrawn from the 1983 Worlds with her injury, I think she would've won a medal. However, with the Zayak rule, I don't believe the establishment was ready to have her win again. She had her chance for the victory at the 1984 Nationals but she still lacked conditioning due to her ankle fracture. I feel the Olympic judges intentionally put Zayak and Chin in 13th and 12th place after the figures. If figures didn't exist, they definitely would've won medals. Zayak was perfect at that competition.
Ironically, it was Elaine again who won the bronze medal at the 1984 Worlds as the lone American competitor. We should be proud of this champion for her work ethic, gutsiness, and determination.
 

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