Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

DobrinFan

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Shouldn't the transfer window be extended due to *********? All training and contact was supposed to be stopped & if they didn't it was illegal.

How long should the transfer window be extended? Kostornaia (Novogorsk) and Plushenko (Kislovodsk) were back on the ice in June.
 

hanca

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Shouldn't the transfer window be extended due to *********? All training and contact was supposed to be stopped & if they didn't it was illegal.
But the ***** situation did not prevent the skaters sending an email to the federation informing them that the skater wants to make a change. So even when skaters couldn’t train, they still would be expected to follow the rules. Most of them did, and this rule have been in place for many years, so it is not as if it was something new. While I like Kostornaya, I don’t like when someone gets away with breaking rules. Then there is no point having the rules, if anyone can do whatever they want to.
 

AxelAnnie

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That’s hilarious. The federation is more scared of Tutberidze than they are of Pluschenko. But it is fair; she should have made her mind up in May like everyone else. She knew the rules. Well, all it means is that she will be skating for Eteri’s club, and Eteri’s club will be getting money for coaching her, even though she will be coached by Pluschenko. I think she got off lightly. Nugumanova and Lozko were much worse off when they tried to switch outside the transition window.
Coulda. Shoulda. Woulda.

First off.......I thought the information from the functionary was a riot!!!

Second off...........how was anyone supposed to make an informed decision about anything during the plague we seem to be experiencing.

Third off.........I can't imagine that either Eteri or Alena would be amenable to such an arrangement.
 
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AxelAnnie

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But the ***** situation did not prevent the skaters sending an email to the federation informing them that the skater wants to make a change. So even when skaters couldn’t train, they still would be expected to follow the rules. Most of them did, and this rule have been in place for many years, so it is not as if it was something new. While I like Kostornaya, I don’t like when someone gets away with breaking rules. Then there is no point having the rules, if anyone can do whatever they want to.
Yes, however perhaps Alena did not come to her decision until recently. Perhaps whatever interactions there were between Alena and Eteri in the last month of so were not satisfactory...i.e. music, choreography, costume.
 
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bardtoob

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Kogan spoke about the problems of the FFKKR due to the transition of Kostornaya from Tutberidze to Plushenko

According to the functionary, he does not understand what prevented the athlete from announcing her decision during the transfer window.

“Until now, the federation has no documents on the transfer from either Kostornaya or Plushenko, but even when we have these documents and we will consider them, there can be only one solution: Alena will be able to play this season only for her former club - Sambo-70, - said Kogan in an interview with RT.

He also added that the issue of Kostornaya's transfer will be considered at the next executive committee of the FFKKR in September.

“But I can say now that we intend to follow the existing rules: we cannot prohibit the transitions from coach to coach, we cannot oblige an athlete to work with a specific specialist, but since the transfer window is closed, there can be no transitions from one organization to another” - emphasized Kogan.

 

starrynight

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I think that if the best skater in the world decides that she will succeed better under a new coach or that she's unhappy with her current arrangement, then a fed should assist her.

I think it would be counter productive for RusFed to stop her. A change for Olympic season would be disruptive.

That's if we are talking about giving athletes the best chance at success ... and not just focusing on a system for paying coaches money.

The only reason Rus Fed would choose not to care that their top skater has what she needs is that they just presume she could be easily replaced by someone else. Maybe. But it's wise not to count chickens before they hatch.
 

Coco

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We may never hear AK's side of the story, but it's possible something happened to make her come to an abrupt decision, timing be damned.

An athlete should have the right to determine where and with whom they want to train.
 

hanca

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Yes, however perhaps Alina did not come to her decision until recently. Perhaps whatever interactions there were between Alina and Eteri in the last month of so were not satisfactory...i.e. music, choreography, costume.
Kostornaya has been skating with Tutberidze since 2017, so one can argue she had three years to know how it feels to be coached by her and had plenty of time to figure out by end of May by whom she wants to be coached the following season. There is no reason to argue that she lost a month or two in isolation and therefore needed further nearly two more months to decide to swap. It is not as if she was never coached by her before and therefore June and July were the only time she could experience Tutberidze’s coaching. The fact that she didn’t know about the music/program/costume, well, most skaters were forced to make the decision about their coaching team before they know what program or music they will have. Why would there be different rules for her?
 

hanca

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I think that if the best skater in the world decides that she will succeed better under a new coach or that she's unhappy with her current arrangement, then a fed should assist her.

I think it would be counter productive for RusFed to stop her. A change for Olympic season would be disruptive.
True, but considering that they have so many great skaters, it depends whether the federation wants to keep happy the best skater in the world or the most successful coach. Because best skater this year may not be the best skater next year, whereas the coach has a chance to produce a whole lot of future champions.
 
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kwanfan1818

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Kostornaya has been skating with Tutberidze since 2017, so one can argue she had three years to know how it feels to be coached by her and had plenty of time to figure out by end of May by whom she wants to be coached the following season.
This is the first year that her jump coach was working elsewhere, and one of her top training mates had moved to another rink. Plus her coach was in the US for a while with her daughter, not on the ice with her everyday. Plus there's a ********* going on.

So it's not the same situation as the last three years.
 

AxelAnnie

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Kostornaya has been skating with Tutberidze since 2017, so one can argue she had three years to know how it feels to be coached by her and had plenty of time to figure out by end of May by whom she wants to be coached the following season. There is no reason to argue that she lost a month or two in isolation and therefore needed further nearly two more months to decide to swap. It is not as if she was never coached by her before and therefore June and July were the only time she could experience Tutberidze’s coaching. The fact that she didn’t know about the music/program/costume, well, most skaters were forced to make the decision about their coaching team before they know what program or music they will have. Why would there be different rules for her?
Given that we don't know, let me posit this: Her time away from skating gave her a new perspective. And with distance, change in routine and lots of time to think about her goals she decided to make the change.
 

hanca

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Given that we don't know, let me posit this: Her time away from skating gave her a new perspective. And with distance, change in routine and thought she decided to make the change.
Which is absolutely fine, but as there was a rule she very likely was aware of, she should take the consequences connected with breaking the rule. I am not saying that she should be forced to stay with Tutberidze against her will. I am saying she should be treated same as any other skater and there should not be different rules for different skaters. The same way as when someone decides in the middle of season to change coaches... and I am not saying it because I dislike her or her skating; I am saying it because I hate the politicking and double standards.
 

AxelAnnie

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Which is absolutely fine, but as there was a rule she very likely was aware of, she should take the consequences connected with breaking the rule. I am not saying that she should be forced to stay with Tutberidze against her will. I am saying she should be treated same as any other skater and there should not be different rules for different skaters. The same way as when someone decides in the middle of season to change coaches...
Well, we disagree. The article said that her request would be reviewed again next month.
Perhaps in the months leading up to May she thought she could work through rough spots.

These are different times....and that is an understatement.
 

barbarafan

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But the ***** situation did not prevent the skaters sending an email to the federation informing them that the skater wants to make a change. So even when skaters couldn’t train, they still would be expected to follow the rules. Most of them did, and this rule have been in place for many years, so it is not as if it was something new. While I like Kostornaya, I don’t like when someone gets away with breaking rules. Then there is no point having the rules, if anyone can do whatever they want to.
Were the offices open during that time or was there a shutdown? Was anyone available to give her counsel on the best course of action under the current circumstances?
 

barbarafan

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Kostornaya has been skating with Tutberidze since 2017, so one can argue she had three years to know how it feels to be coached by her and had plenty of time to figure out by end of May by whom she wants to be coached the following season. There is no reason to argue that she lost a month or two in isolation and therefore needed further nearly two more months to decide to swap. It is not as if she was never coached by her before and therefore June and July were the only time she could experience Tutberidze’s coaching. The fact that she didn’t know about the music/program/costume, well, most skaters were forced to make the decision about their coaching team before they know what program or music they will have. Why would there be different rules for her?
um...let's see....Med was happy training with Eteri until the Olympics result. When she realized she had been conned and misled and then basically dumped she wasn't so happy. Eteri has a certain magical maniacal soul which can turn chocolate cake to sh*it in a nanosecond.
 

Tony Wheeler

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I don’t think any of them feel conned. That’s somewhat ridiculous. This is a trainer producing top skater after top skater, and all of her skaters know this as they are likely receiving the same instruction and tools for success. The idea that she should only focus on one at a time or if B does better than A that she tricked A maliciously is a little ridiculous to me, to be honest.

ETA- Zagitova won the Olympics rightfully in my opinion, and the flaws that the technical Panel and judges always seemed to look past with Evgenia should’ve made Zagitova an even more decisive winner IMO.
 

hanca

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Is there any indication that she isn't prepared to take the consequences? She hasn't commented and nothing has been leaked so I would say there isn't.
No, but it seems to me that some individuals here think that the rules in her case should be ignored because she is Kostornaya. While I appreciate her skating qualities, I don’t think it would be fair towards other skaters who will try to move later and face the consequences. And if no one will face the consequences, then there is no point having the rule, if anyone can ignore it anyway.
 

Bigbird

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Sounds like Kostornaia will be sucking even more salt this season. Might have been better to grit her teeth and remain with ET for this so called season. Sigh.
 

barbarafan

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Yes, however perhaps Alena did not come to her decision until recently. Perhaps whatever interactions there were between Alena and Eteri in the last month of so were not satisfactory...i.e. music, choreography, costume.
Perhaps it had to do with her coach leaving. If she felt she was getting the best technique from him then maybe it made up for what she did not like with the other coaches but once he left she might not have felt that her skating would improve. So in a sense she did not leave her coaches but followed her coach.
 

Weve3

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So many things will happen between now and the next Olympics regarding these teams we are talking about, that by the time we get there it might be a moot point.

Eteri usually manages to have a newbie on scene one or two seasons before an Olympic Games that might ultimately upend everything. What we are predicting today may very well not be the reality tomorrow, let alone two seasons from now. Skating has become very fluid, especially in the ladies' discipline.

I think Alena recognized that she was not on the same page as her coach, and it appears that she did not feel they could work out their differences. Having concluded that, Alena, being particularly independent, and let's just say gutsy enough, decided to make the change now by shaking up the status quo. Can't say I blame her. Skating is important to Alena, but I get a strong sense that it is not the end-all of an ultimate goal. That's refreshing for a change, and to me, it indicates a high degree of confidence.

Now, as far as the red tape surrounding her coaching change, that's going to be very interesting, but certainly not too much fun. In Russia, these situations are addressed differently, but then again, other posters have already clarified that.
 

kwanatic

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Pretty shocked to hear that Eteri's star skater dipped out on her. Oh well. After reading through everything, I get why Alena would want to leave. She doesn't plan on skating much beyond 2022, she wants to learn a quad, and she was likely fond of her jump coach who left and went to a different school, possible sponsorships... It could have been handled differently but, again oh well.

Watch the first 20 seconds or so of Zagitova's free skate from last season: none of those movements make any sense to me. Complex- yeah. But not really anything finished off or matching the music or setting any kind of mood.

This has always been my issue with Eteri's skaters. Very few of Eteri's skaters are capable of really performing. They can jump their butts off and tick all the boxes, but there's a distinct lack of actual connection on the artistic side of things. So much of the choreography feels perfunctory, misplaced with the music and unfinished. As lovely as Valieva is I find her programs irksome simply because she rushes through her choreo. That girl could be stunning if someone would just slow her down and force her to listen and connect to the music that's playing.

Alina too. The only part of her FS that I liked last year was the end when the tempo picked up. All of the Egyptian hand moves and flourishes at the beginning of the program were awkward, didn't match the music and were unfinished. Add her hunched posture to all of that and it was a hard program to watch for me.

However, every now and then Daniil comes up with something nice. I enjoyed Alena's SP from last season.. That's becaue of Alena though--a strong skater can take poor choreography and make it look good. And I actually liked Alina's SP too. Posture aside, I thought the slower program suited her. She finished out more of her movements and didn't rush and it made her infinitely more enjoyable IMO.


ETA- Zagitova won the Olympics rightfully in my opinion, and the flaws that the technical Panel and judges always seemed to look past with Evgenia should’ve made Zagitova an even more decisive winner IMO.

Based on Evgenia's performance I'd have given her the edge over Alina...but I'd have put Kaetlyn above both of them, at least in the SP. If you adjust the ridiculous PCS inflation for both Evgenia and Alina and score everyone objectively, Kaetlyn likely had a case for silver if not gold. Massively bigger jumps, much better speed, power and skating skills, comparable transitions and spins, strong programs and wonderful interpretation. I maintain that if every element was scored objectively Kaetlyn would have placed higher.
 

Tony Wheeler

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Based on Evgenia's performance I'd have given her the edge over Alina...but I'd have put Kaetlyn above both of them, at least in the SP. If you adjust the ridiculous PCS inflation for both Evgenia and Alina and score everyone objectively, Kaetlyn likely had a case for silver if not gold. Massively bigger jumps, much better speed, power and skating skills, comparable transitions and spins, strong programs and wonderful interpretation. I maintain that if every element was scored objectively Kaetlyn would have placed higher.

I remember I wrote a long boring :rolleyes: about all of Medvedeva's technical shortcomings and that I thought Kaetlyn made a case for silver and even making it close in the long, but still with Alina winning overall. Remember that Evgenia and Alina scored the exact same total in the LP - will never understand it. That Don Quixote program was just out of this world good and is, for me at least, still exciting to watch-- posture, at times, aside. I think the +5 system really could've helped Osmond to gain back some of the TES that she was either even with or somehow behind the Russians because Lutz aside, those are some of the best jumps I've ever seen.

Agreed that Zagitova's SP last year was probably her most complete program, and she really seemed to like it.
 

kalle

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Based on Evgenia's performance I'd have given her the edge over Alina...but I'd have put Kaetlyn above both of them, at least in the SP. If you adjust the ridiculous PCS inflation for both Evgenia and Alina and score everyone objectively, Kaetlyn likely had a case for silver if not gold. Massively bigger jumps, much better speed, power and skating skills, comparable transitions and spins, strong programs and wonderful interpretation. I maintain that if every element was scored objectively Kaetlyn would have placed higher.
[/QUOTE]

This 🤗

Back on topic. I wonder what Trusova feels about Alena following her steps..
 

PRlady

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Russian coaches seem particularly temperamental and petty. These kids have it difficult regardless. Maybe Kostornaia just needed a change to help her focus on her last two seasons?

Although Russian culture is pretty hierarchical, I assume that Western coaches can be just as temperamental, they’re just not as public about it.
 

clairecloutier

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So does Kostornaia need to actually return to & train with Eteri? Or can she compete with another coach, but just list Sambo-70 as her club? (I certainly hope the latter.)
 

Ka3sha

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The latter.
She was already seen at the Pluschenko academy (second pic)

Although, I find it interesting that the Fed makes exeptions for some students/coaches if they want to - for example, Georgy Kunitsa moved from ‘Moskvich’ club to Sambo-70 in the autumn, right between two Russian cup events (and Kolyada switched to Mishin also after the deadline if we are talking about this off-season) :shuffle:
 
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