Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[skatingfan412]

As a relatively new fan to FSUniverse, I can't stop reading all of this like a horrible reality TV show that you can't get enough of.
I tuned into skating and loved following Bella & Vanya, Valeriy & Vasilisa which made me want to learn more about the beauty of ice dance and pairs, but I'm just feeling so discouraged that the truth is very ugly. Reading all the forums to learn as much as I can. I get that no one is perfect, but as public figures, federations/coaches/skaters/families... shouldn't they take responsibility knowing that every action or move you take will be analyzed? The fact that Bella and Vanya were sooo public about everything in their lives, and didn't share their marriage was clearly that they were hiding something.

What sort of example is this setting for future generations or other smaller countries trying to break into figure skating, and even the couples disciplines which already seems so difficult to find partners? This just makes me sad.

I guess my biggest question is.. skaters need to be released by their current federation and I assume they would present paperwork to their new federation before being accepted (i.e. passports, residency visas, marital status... just like any application)? I mean you have to submit this paperwork for any job in any industry. When these WASA ice dance couples joined USFS, did the USFS just not ask questions or what? I don't even understand how this could have happened.

 

[ice coverage]

General comment: IMO, there is no reason to be discussing Kolesnik, Zingas, or Nguyen in relation to the disturbing WASA dance news.

And, of course, we cannot forget how Kolesnik came to the US to start with—brought here to be a partner to Avonley .... As far as I recall, anyway.

Kolesnik was not brought to the U.S. to be a partner to Nguyen.
What I mean is that their partnership was not premeditated by Shpilband before Kolesnik ever set foot in Novi, AFAIK.
Kolesnik came to the U.S. because he was interested in training with Shpilband, and in finding a partner.
(Based on a long-ago conversation with a good source of mine, my understanding is that at the time, Nguyen was not in need of a partner. A different partnership for Nguyen with someone else [i.e., not Kolesnik] already was on track, but then it ultimately did not go forward.)

 

[kwanfan1818]

There are plenty of places in the US where marriage right out of high school is common enough and accepted, and in Russia, earlier marriage is a social norm. We just learned that Lipnitskaia married for the second time at age 26. We see as many Russian skaters marry formally after one or more kids are born. For the imported partner men, a marriage certificate could be just another piece of paper in the visa file.

Skating is insular enough, but then there is insular within insular. I wonder if it almost became a sub-cult in that training group where the female skaters consider it a rite of passage to marry their partner, like their own secret club. Not that this would excuse the parents in any way, but I don’t think there’s evidence yet they are strong-arming their daughters into marriage to protect their kids’ partnerships, even if this is a benefit.

It would tie those skaters to that coaching team even more, especially during the time it would take, expedited green card or not, for the partners to get citizenship.

It’s not like these guys never talk to each other, to try to figure out the score and navigate a new country, a new dominant language, and the norms, even the twisted one, in US figure skating. I’m sure they don’t simply compare car photos.

 

[On My Own]

I just feel like it's time to take competitions away from the USA, when the establishment itself is like this. I know it's going to be VERY unpopular to say it on this forum, but I'd never want children from my country to compete around some of these people, sorry. Well, I suppose I'd never want them to take up this sport to begin...

 

[Karen-W]

I just feel like it's time to take competitions away from the USA, when the establishment itself is like this. I know it's going to be VERY unpopular to say it on this forum, but I'd never want children from my country to compete around some of these people, sorry. Well, I suppose I'd never want them to take up this sport to begin...

Oh, FFS - this is, at this time, ONE ice dance school. The other problems being discussed are hardly limited to JUST the sport in the US.

 

[On My Own]

Oh, FFS - this is, at this time, ONE ice dance school. The other problems being discussed are hardly limited to JUST the sport in the US.

Dalilah Sappenfield.

You can laugh at my post all you like. Russian doping is a lesser problem than this to me, because I care much less about losing. Yet people were shrieking about Russia, not about the US.

 

[Karen-W]

Dalilah Sappenfield.

Are you telling us that she's also pushing citizenship marriages?

Because the issues with Dalilah are hardly unique to US skating.

 

[On My Own]

I'm saying way too many coaches and the establishment of the US skating itself seems to enable and promote sexual abuse. Sorry that I don't want children from my country to be around such people, I guess.

 

[VGThuy]

All I know is, I’m want a deep investigation into these marriages and the whole scheme. There are so many issues that are being touched up on that we don’t even know the depth of it yet.

 

[Aceon6]

To be real, figure skating is one of a handful of sports that identifies future competitors before high school age. Gymnastics and swimming are the others that come to mind. And those three are the ones that come to mind when we talk about abuse of power, overtraining, and all the other shady things that go along with young kids and greedy/shady adults. If something looks “normal” to an 11 or 12 yo, the kids and parents aren’t going to question much as they get older. It’s the system.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

I wonder if it almost became a sub-cult in that training group where the female skaters consider it a rite of passage to marry their partner, like their own secret club.

I have been wondering if these young women were also somewhat persuaded to marry by the pressure of fans who so relentlessly insist on shipping dance teams or who demand that teams bring 'the sex' to their skating? Of judges and commentators who favor romantic programs? I can see them being vulnerable to the suggestion that being married - even if it wasn't a 'real' marriage - would strengthen their connection and improve their partnership, thus giving fans, sponsors, and judges what they want.

 

[Lara111]

Yeah romantic relationship or not, these young women have been manipulated and used. That's pretty clear.

How about young men?

 

[jmtfti]

I have been wondering if these young women were also somewhat persuaded to marry by the pressure of fans who so relentlessly insist on shipping dance teams or who demand that teams bring 'the sex' to their skating? Of judges and commentators who favor romantic programs? I can see them being vulnerable to the suggestion that being married - even if it wasn't a 'real' marriage - would strengthen their connection and improve their partnership, thus giving fans, sponsors, and judges what they want.

The Flores/Desyatov and Yi/Savelev marriages weren't public knowledge, and I don't think either team have presented themselves publicly as being a couple.

 

[Prancer]

I'm saying way too many coaches and the establishment of the US skating itself seems to enable and promote sexual abuse.

Is sexual abuse involved in these marriages?

 

[Tinycities]

While I’m not sharing speculation, I do want to share that according to the screenshot shared by Phil Hersh, the Safesport bylaw that Desyatov is suspended under is for sexual abuse and misconduct.

 

[Karen-W]

To be real, figure skating is one of a handful of sports that identifies future competitors before high school age. Gymnastics and swimming are the others that come to mind. And those three are the ones that come to mind when we talk about abuse of power, overtraining, and all the other shady things that go along with young kids and greedy/shady adults. If something looks “normal” to an 11 or 12 yo, the kids and parents aren’t going to question much as they get older. It’s the system.

Not true. Plenty of sports identify future competitors before high school age - ice hockey, soccer, field hockey - off the top of my head I know that each of those sports have developmental camps for young teens and some even have U-15 squads that play internationally. Same with speed skating, TBH - they have like 4 different age brackets for junior competitors. And surely you can't have forgotten about the tennis schools that developed teenage tennis stars as far back as the '80s. There are plenty of sports that identify and develop future talent starting around age 10, sometimes younger.

 

[On My Own]

Is sexual abuse involved in these marriages?

Is grooming not a form of sexual abuse？

I just want to say that just because these young women were technically adults when they got married off, that doesn't make this any less abusive. Some amount of grooming has to go on to put them in a situation where they go along with this and it probably started young. I don't want to lessen the effect of what was done to these girls just because it seems "less bad" than the safesport issues.

 

[Prancer]

Is grooming not a form of sexual abuse？

Is grooming involved?

It seems to me that all we know here is that there were marriages. To date, the marriages strike me as business decisions.

 

[Karen-W]

Is grooming not a form of sexual abuse？

You know, I'm not sure what country you are from, but I would bet a fair amount of money that this sort of thing happens in your country - maybe not in figure skating in your country or perhaps it's just better concealed/hidden, but if not in figure skating then you cannot be so naive as to believe it doesn't happen somewhere in your society. Sadly, this isn't something that is limited only to the US or to US figure skating in particular. Check out the stories some former Soviet & Russian women have shared about their coaches & ex-partners if you don't believe me. Check out the recent junior ice hockey scandal in Canada if you don't believe me.

 

[Aceon6]

@Karen-W I don’t disagree, but the other sports have entry paths for kids who develop later. A kid too small for junior hockey can succeed once they grow. In FS, if you’re not known at 12, you’re done.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

The Flores/Desyatov and Yi/Savelev marriages weren't public knowledge, and I don't think either team have presented themselves publicly as being a couple.

The idea is that being married would somehow improve the connection between partners, help them gel. Fans would respond to the closeness between partners even though the marriage was unknown. If you are a teenage girl, you'd have seen this kind of trope a lot in pop culture.

 

[On My Own]

Is grooming involved?

It seems to me that all we know here is that there were marriages. To date, the marriages strike me as business decisions.

OK, then whatever it is - between Dalilah Sappenfield and this, I wouldn't want children from my country around the people enabling it. Business or something else. Not that being "business" makes it much better, to me.

You know, I'm not sure what country you are from, but I would bet a fair amount of money that this sort of thing happens in your country - maybe not in figure skating in your country or perhaps it's just better concealed/hidden, but if not in figure skating then you cannot be so naive as to believe it doesn't happen somewhere in your society. Sadly, this isn't something that is limited only to the US or to US figure skating in particular. Check out the stories some former Soviet & Russian women have shared about their coaches & ex-partners if you don't believe me. Check out the recent junior ice hockey scandal in Canada if you don't believe me.

What exact standard should the USFS violate before I can say "ban America from hosting skating in the future", then? Or "I'm scared for children"?

Quite a lot of athletes from various countries dope, too, come to that.

 

[Prancer]

OK, then whatever it is - between Dalilah Sappenfield and this, I wouldn't want children from my country around the people enabling it. Business or something else. Not that being "business" makes it much better, to me.

You seem to be assuming that marriage = sexual relationship.

Having known a few people who married for citizenship purposes, I can attest that this is not at all a given.

What exact standard should the USFS violate before I can say "ban America from hosting skating in the future", then?

You can say it whenever you like, but no one is under any obligation to agree with you.

 

[VGThuy]

OK, then whatever it is - between Dalilah Sappenfield and this, I wouldn't want children from my country around the people enabling it. Business or something else. Not that being "business" makes it much better, to me.


What exact standard should the USFS violate before I can say "ban America from hosting skating in the future", then? Or "I'm scared for children"?

Quite a lot of athletes from various countries dope, too, come to that.

I think it’s disingenuous for you to use this issue to bring forth a separate issue state-sponsored doping.

 

[On My Own]

You seem to be assuming that marriage = sexual relationship.

I seem to be assuming that whatever is happening here is disgusting. Is that enough?

You can say it whenever you like, but no one is under any obligation to agree with you.

'Course. No one will agree, we'll just wait for the next report.

Oh here it is. https://x.com/SkatingLesson/status/1847696849647628330

 

[Lara111]

I think what you mean to say is that no one in the Tsarevski camp has contradicted her statement that he gave her no notice or reason regarding his decision to stop skating with her.

All we have is Flores' side of the story - and it paints her in the best possible light - as the deserted partner who was shut out from his life completely. And that may be true. But, looking back on her posts at the time, she was saying that their coaches were also getting no information and that when people showed up at his family home, they were told to get a search warrant if they thought Dima was in danger.

Nearly 3 years on, it kind of makes you wonder what his parents & family were seeing or noticing in that training situation at WASA that gave them concern and caused him to agree with ending the partnership and cutting off all contact. And if there was a larger issue at play, why should anyone require him or his family to tell her through anyone but the USFS that the partnership was ended?

I'm sorry, but, from everything that is coming out here, I'm really bothered by the continued need of some fans to blame Tsarevski for the end of that partnership. Just stop. It's gross and he was clearly not okay with whatever was happening there and is in a much better place now.

If her parents were ok with marrying her off to the stranger/new partner there most definately was very unhealthy pressure on Tsarevsky as her partner at the time.

 

[nylynnr]

Legally adults yes, but given that the brain doesn't fully mature until the mid 20's there's an argument to be made that none of these young adults are fully mature enough to be making these decisions.

Slippery slope. That is the similar argument conservatives use when discussing gender-affirming care for young people.

Yet people were shrieking about Russia, not about the US.

Disagree. There is plenty of shrieking to go around for every country.

 

[Prancer]

I seem to be assuming that whatever is happening here is disgusting. Is that enough?

So you call anything disgusting sexual abuse? Got it.

 

[once_upon]

I guess I am shocked that parents would be THIS desperate to get to the Olympics that they're willing to marry off their barely-legal daughters to guys they don't know at all.

I'm not surprised. I think it happens in a variety of scenarios not just ice skating.

Some parents will do anything to accomplish their dreams through their kids.

 

[ilovepaydays]

This is almost reminding me of the days Mr Mayer said that if you wanted to make pictures for MGM, you had to marry who he told you to marry.

And there were A LOT of divorces - even more often than Hollywood today. Were the divorces mandated as well? Wasn’t Clark Gable married five times? And Mickey Rooney eight times?

That’s one point that’s potentially concerning about this.