Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[VGThuy]

Oh here it is. https://x.com/SkatingLesson/status/1847696849647628330

This reminds me of Tatiana Navka marrying Nikolai Morosov so they could compete at the Olympics for Belarus.

 

[On My Own]

Disagree. There is plenty of shrieking to go around for every country.

Eh. We all know nothing will happen. Russia never did get banned for doping.

 

[Willin]

If they truly are marrying off their skaters for citizenship, I can't imagine that is the only questionable actions the coaches are doing. I imagine for MIDA to take Tsarevski on, there must have been some legitimacy to him leaving the way he did.

Here's what Tsarevski has publicly stated about the split with Flores from a 2023 US Figure Skating Fanzone article.



He also stressed his good relationship with his family, likely because Flores insinuated that he was being held against his will.

You do really have to wonder what else is going on there if stuff like this is happening...

 

[canbelto]

And there were A LOT of divorces - even more often than Hollywood today. Were the divorces mandated as well? Wasn’t Clark Gable married five times? And Mickey Rooney eight times?

That’s one point that’s potentially concerning about this.

The divorces weren't mandated. They were just a natural biproduct of two people only being together because studio heads told them to be. Once they were married they realized they had nothing in common, no chemistry, no rapport.

One couple that was rumored to be arranged by studio heads for lavender purposes was Barbara Stanwyck and Robert Taylor.

 

[Lara111]

What does not make sense to me is that there are so many sexual misconduct allegations in ice dance - this does not make sense for some reason. I need Malcolm Gladwell to pay attention and explain it to us.

 

[Karen-W]

we'll just wait for the next report.

Oh here it is. https://x.com/SkatingLesson/status/1847696849647628330

Because nothing screams DL just trolling for attention by dropping that tidbit right around the same time that Morozov/Chen take the ice for their GP debut, now does it?

 

[farahfan]

What does not make sense to me is that there are so many sexual misconduct allegations in ice dance - this does not make sense for some reason. I need Malcolm Gladwell to pay attention and explain it to us.

Chapter 8 of his book Talking to Strangers.

 

[barbk]

Chapter 8 of his book Talking to Strangers

After listening to his series of talks with Paul Simon where he talked far, far more than he allowed Simon to talk...blech.

 

[Prancer]

Some parents will do anything to accomplish their dreams through their kids.

Or to help their kids achieve their own dreams.

And there were A LOT of divorces - even more often than Hollywood today. Were the divorces mandated as well? Wasn’t Clark Gable married five times? And Mickey Rooney eight times?

That’s one point that’s potentially concerning about this.

Yeah, it's one thing to break up as a couple of athletes who work together, quite another to have to get a divorce to do it.

But people believe what they want to believe, so I can see people talking themselves into thinking that a sham marriage is no big deal.

 

[Spikefan]

I don’t get how Morozov/Eremenko is related. Fairly certain they have been in a relationship for some time and aren’t even skating together anymore.

Now, should he gain citizenship and she dumps Chen to pair back up with him that will be a different matter.

 

[Rafter]

The way it’s hitting me at the moment, with the caveat that I have only been processing all of this for like an hour, is that “the other stuff” is horrific in a way that seems very specific to figure skating. Most of the stories of sexual assault and abuse that we read about in this thread, as awful as they are and as much as we know the culture of figure skating contributes to the circumstances surrounding them, are not unique. They are the kinds of things that happen (unfortunately) all the time outside the context of figure skating.

This situation? Three teenage skaters from the same school that just happens to operate right under the noses of the highest-ranking officials in U.S. Figure Skating are married to their Russian partners in a situation that almost certainly involves varying degrees of grooming and conspiracy to commit immigration fraud, with the potential for a human trafficking conversation on top of all that. This is not a story that could happen anywhere. This is a story about so many of the ways that figure skating has a deeply problematic culture, and I hope it becomes the scandal the sport deserves.

Please elaborate re: human trafficking…?

My sense of this situation regarding these teenaged almost “child brides”, is that the parents are letting their extreme ambition for their child (re: potential Olympic glory) cloud their judgement in terms of morals, ethics, good modelling/parenting, etc. I know they are 18 but still. It comes across as so desperate. The Flores’s seem extremely ambitious and clearly not in a good way.

I wonder if there will be lawsuits regarding the gofundme. Although perhaps GFM works such that you can’t sue if you donated.

 

[MacMadame]

But only if they have actually applied for citizenship already. Otherwise, it's just seen as two young adults who got married.

I have no idea if any of the 3 teams in question have applied for citizenship or received citizenship. If the answer is yes, then immigration fraud would come into the picture.

That's not how it works in the US. I gather you are not from here from some of your comments.

Skaters coming here from other countries to train FT need a visa. Visas are temporary so if you only have a Visa, you have to do things like periodically leave the country and come back in. And at some point, you may not be eligible anymore.

Not everyone with a visa wants citizenship. But if you want citizenship, the next step is to apply for a Permanent Residency Card (aka as a Green Card). Normally, these take a while. But if you get married to a citizen, you get it automatically.

If any of these men have green cards, they have to prove to ICE that their marriage is real or they have committed immigration fraud and there are penalties involved for both partners in the marriage.

People have been calling these marriages citizenship marriages but they are normally called green-card marriages. They may lead to citizenship or they may not. A lot of times, a green card marriage is just so a person can stay in the US permanently (since visas are temporary).

I know of at least one person who entered into a green card marriage to help out a friend. He definitely risked jail time and/or fines for doing that regardless of whether or not the woman ever applied for citizenship.

I guess my biggest question is.. skaters need to be released by their current federation and I assume they would present paperwork to their new federation before being accepted (i.e. passports, residency visas, marital status... just like any application)? I mean you have to submit this paperwork for any job in any industry. When these WASA ice dance couples joined USFS, did the USFS just not ask questions or what? I don't even understand how this could have happened.

Anyone can join USFS. You fill out a form and you pay a fee. For the skaters, it's joining a club, not applying for a job. (Not to mention, not all jobs do much checking at all. Maybe they call your references, maybe they don't.)

ETA some people get checked but only if they hold certain jobs like being a coach.)

 

[Laura4]

If they truly are marrying off their skaters for citizenship, I can't imagine that is the only questionable actions the coaches are doing. I imagine for MIDA to take Tsarevski on, there must have been some legitimacy to him leaving the way he did.

Given what Flores has been up to, I'm giving Tsarevski the benefit of the doubt. I think he's been treated unfairly by some posters who didn't have all the facts.

 

[canbelto]

So I just did a little deep dive into Leah's IG. And she and Artem seem like a cute couple BUT ... given their ages, I have no doubt that in normal circumstances they'd just be each others' dates to the prom. If they're really serious they might give each other a promise ring. But the fact that they got married just as Leah turned 18 is the icky part.

 

[once_upon]

Plenty of couples get married at an early age. Some of the couples have known each other since 14, some have known each other only a few months. Some have a wide age difference. Sometimes those marriages are to get out from parents homes.

Is the ick factor because they are skating together, or one may be seeking citizenship, or just what?

Are people putting an ick factor because it is ick for them or because we are making assumptions or ick for us?

Yes, there are investigations or banning from sport. I think it is possible we don't have information to make judgements. I don't follow skaters instagrams, X, USFS chatter or DL activities, so maybe you all know what's happening.

I do think WASA has issues - major ones.

 

[Private Citizen]

Please elaborate re: human trafficking…?

Mail-order partners brought from Russia/Belarus, with what promises? They're financed by their partners/teenage brides' families. How much control of their own situations do they really have? Are they really entering into these marriages voluntarily? There are serious human trafficking / "modern slavery" concerns here. Just because they're men and because some are predators doesn't also mean that they can't also be victims.

The USFS needs to do the right thing here and voluntarily go to the FBI and USCIS with the information.

It seems to me that all we know here is that there were marriages. To date, the marriages strike me as business decisions.

I agree that these are "business decisions," but that doesn't make them legal.... (It also doesn't automatically make them illegal.)

You seem to be assuming that marriage = sexual relationship.

Having known a few people who married for citizenship purposes, I can attest that this is not at all a given.

While not strictly required, it is one warning sign of potential fraud. The married couple needs to prove that the marriage is bona fide and not an attempt to circumvent immigration law. I don't see how an immigration officer could consider Isabella Flores's marriage anything other than fraudulent, based on her own social media. She marries her partner, who needs immigration status, and then sleeps in the same bedroom as her sister and posts about it???

 

[On My Own]

I mean IDK. Maybe marriage in the States means something else. Sorry for assuming, of course, and my apologies for questioning the business, and feeling disgusted at it, and wishing the country that enables it be banned as being unsafe for children, and for drawing a disingenuous comparison with state-sponsored doping which can't really have any equivalent in the States because it's not a state-sponsored system, although as I said. Losing < child safety for me.

 

[Kateri]

Plenty of couples get married at an early age. Some of the couples have known each other since 14, some have known each other only a few months. Some have a wide age difference. Sometimes those marriages are to get out from parents homes.

Is the ick factor because they are skating together, or one may be seeking citizenship, or just what?

Are people putting an ick factor because it is ick for them or because we are making assumptions or ick for us?

We have two teenage girls who were married to imported skating partners they had only known for a handful of months, and they then kept it secret. You don't think that's ick? Or at least incredibly suspect?

 

[Lara111]

People often mention how difficult things must be for Flores, and I’m sure they are. However, she comes from a privileged background, with wealthy parents who can afford to support both of their daughters in figure skating and even pay for skating partners. Ivan, on the other hand, is a 23-year-old with no family support (his parents have passed away) and is struggling to make it on his own. His situation must be incredibly overwhelming. I feel very sorry for him.

 

[Wyliefan]

We have two teenage girls who were married to imported skating partners they had only known for a handful of months, and they then kept it secret. You don't think that's ick? Or at least incredibly suspect?

Three.

 

[Prancer]

I agree that these are "business decisions," but that doesn't make them legal.... (It also doesn't automatically make them illegal.)

Yeah, no kidding. But it doesn't make them sexual abuse or grooming, either. I think some are taking the term "marriage" a lot more literally than might be the literal case.

While not strictly required, it is one warning sign of potential fraud. The married couple needs to prove that the marriage is bona fide and not an attempt to circumvent immigration law.

Yes, I think we all know this, too. But as hard as this might be to believe, people who will lie about the basis of their marriage also lie about having sex within that marriage. From what I have heard, immigration doesn't ask for a lot of details about people's sex lives because it's such a minefield. They are more inclined to ask relationship questions that are really hard to fake. My husband and I were talking about this at lunch and we went through some of the questions I've known people to be asked. And, uh, we did not do all that well .

 

[tangerine dream]

If her parents were ok with marrying her off to the stranger/new partner there most definately was very unhealthy pressure on Tsarevsky as her partner at the time.

We don't really know how involved the parents are, do we? At 18/19, the women don't need parental permission to marry. The parents may approve, may not approve, may not even know about the marriages for all we know.

 

[Kateri]

Three.

I wasn't counting Neset/Markelov, since we knew they were married, and they do seem to be legitimately involved, and knew each other for multiple years... but I agree the rumours of an earlier secret marriage make it sounds like it's the same kind of thing, and there's a reason they're getting mentioned in this thread.

 

[Lara111]

We don't really know how involved the parents are, do we? At 18/19, the women don't need parental permission to marry. The parents may approve, may not approve, may not even know about the marriages for all we know.

Well that is absurd to think that parents are not involved here

 

[once_upon]

Maybe I'm naive - which is very likely the case - but I also don't read or listen to DL.

But @Private Citizen has a point on Sex Trafficking is not limited to girls/women.

Is the ick factor due to a male skater from another country is automatically thought to be a sexual abuser? or is the ick factor the female is using him? or is the ick factor the parent's or female's ambition and willing to do anything to get there? or is it because the camp is prostituting their female skaters? I'm trying to understand the ick statement.


WASA camp has always had suspect practices. Should we start there and

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Ivan, on the other hand, is a 23-year-old with no family support (his parents have passed away) and is struggling to make it on his own. His situation must be incredibly overwhelming. I feel very sorry for him.

My sympathy ended when his suspension for sexual misconduct began.

 

[Lara111]

My sympathy ended when his suspension for sexual misconduct began.

nobody knows what happened.

 

[Wyliefan]

I don't see how an immigration officer could consider Isabella Flores's marriage anything other than fraudulent, based on her own social media. She marries her partner, who needs immigration status, and then sleeps in the same bedroom as her sister and posts about it???

That's just one of the things that signals it was not only a terrible plan, but a very poorly thought out one. They honestly thought that no one would ever notice the pattern and start asking questions?

 

[Karen-W]

My sympathy ended when his suspension for sexual misconduct began.

nobody knows what happened.

Agreed, we don't know precisely what happened. I will point out that @kosjenka replied to one of my comments on Xwitter with a bit more information about Desyatov's personal situation. His parents died when he was 12, leaving just Ivan and his brother to fend for themselves. While one would hope there was family to step in, there may very well have been coaches & other skating folks who took Vanya under his wing and basically sold him off to skate for Belarus when he was 16. And then, to find himself in a position where he was scared of the very real possibility he and his brother could be drafted and sent to the war front in early March 2022 - desperate times call for desperate measures.

I really, really cannot stress just how awful this situation is. If he did commit the crime that's being alleged, as I said earlier today, often the assailant's psychological motivation is about control. That's no excuse for it, but it is an explanation, and given what we do know about this situation and his circumstances, I hope that we can recognize that he is, potentially, a victim too. There is not necessarily a black-and-white right-wrong here, but instead a very tragic situation that has caused irreversible harm to multiple people, most especially Bella, Vanya, and the other victim. I fail to see how we cannot offer some compassion and restraint before casting judgment until we have the rest of the story.

 

[Alilou]

nobody knows what happened.

Whatever it was, it was enough for SafeSport to suspend him, so likely to have been something fairly serious.