Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[Prancer]

Here are some of the basic questions that immigration asks: https://www.ashoorilaw.com/blog/marriage-interview-questions/

As you can see, if you actually know each other and you live in the same place, it's not that hard to answer most of them correctly. None of them are about anyone's sex life.

Of course, immigration can ask OTHER questions. I know one couple who were asked about each other's toothbrushes--what color and how were they stored. I know the answer to one of those questions .

 

[tangerine dream]

Here are some of the basic questions that immigration asks: https://www.ashoorilaw.com/blog/marriage-interview-questions/

As you can see, if you actually know each other and you live in the same place, it's not that hard to answer most of them correctly. None of them are about anyone's sex life.

Of course, immigration can ask OTHER questions. I know one couple who were asked about each other's toothbrushes--what color and how were they stored. I know the answer to one of those questions .

I don't know what color my own toothbrush is!

 

[Prancer]

I don't know what color my own toothbrush is!

Mine is white with some color on the handle. I THINK it's orange, but I could be wrong. My husband's is just like mine; we both get our freebies at the dentist. I know the color on the handle is different because I always look right before I go to the dentist so I don't get the same color, but I don't know what it is now.

I do know, however, that we keep our toothbrushes in a divided container and mine is always on the left, so I think we might pass. Maybe.

ETA: My toothbrush is aqua with a white blob on the handle. My husband's is purple with a white blob on the handle

I wonder which one of us will be deported.

 

[rfisher]

There are more of these business marriages than you might think. I had several students who were in such relationships which typically ended when the appropriate time had passed.

 

[Trillian]

Of course, immigration can ask OTHER questions. I know one couple who were asked about each other's toothbrushes--what color and how were they stored. I know the answer to one of those questions .

I couldn’t tell anyone exactly where my husband keeps his toothbrush because we have very different opinions about where things should be stored in the bathroom, so his is in whatever cabinet he thinks makes sense for a toothbrush. But I bet we could bicker convincingly about it.

One of the things that gets me about this situation is how astoundingly stupid it is. It’s common knowledge that marriages that could potentially be for immigration purposes are heavily scrutinized, and certainly people within the figure skating community have plenty of experience with that. What on earth did they think was going to happen?

 

[Prancer]

There are more of these business marriages than you might think. I had several students who were in such relationships which typically ended when the appropriate time had passed.

Same. Sometimes there is money involved and sometimes there is friendship, but to all involved, it's just business.

 

[once_upon]

I know i take the next one in the Sam's package of 11, and he takes the next one. The one I replaced is in the cleaning bucket to use to scrub the shower grout.
I know I keep mine in my medicine cabinet on the second or maybe the third.

I know I use crest toothpaste and he uses something else that start with a P, only because I put it into the grocery cart.

That's all. I have a friend whose been married for 55 years. They use separate bathrooms. I bet she doesn't know either question.

 

[rfisher]

Same. Sometimes there is money involved and sometimes there is friendship, but to all involved, it's just business.

Every time I taught cultural anthropology and we discussed marriage, US students, especially women, were astonished that much of the world views marriage very differently than forever romantic love, a very much 20th century phenomenon. And chaste marriages are not that uncommon either.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

His parents died when he was 12, leaving just Ivan and his brother to fend for themselves. While one would hope there was family to step in, there may very well have been coaches & other skating folks who took Vanya under his wing and basically sold him off to skate for Belarus when he was 16. And then, to find himself in a position where he was scared of the very real possibility he and his brother could be drafted and sent to the war front in early March 2022 - desperate times call for desperate measures.

I really, really cannot stress just how awful this situation is. If he did commit the crime that's being alleged, as I said earlier today, often the assailant's psychological motivation is about control. That's no excuse for it, but it is an explanation, and given what we do know about this situation and his circumstances, I hope that we can recognize that he is, potentially, a victim too. There is not necessarily a black-and-white right-wrong here, but instead a very tragic situation that has caused irreversible harm to multiple people, most especially Bella, Vanya, and the other victim. I fail to see how we cannot offer some compassion and restraint before casting judgment until we have the rest of the story.

He's had a rough go of it, and I'd understand him running out on his partner, jumping to the US, committing immigration fraud, or having a ton of personal issues in consequence. But I draw the line if he's abused someone, ruined someone else's life. I'm not casting him into the pit but I am not going to feel sympathy at the moment, either. He's under credible investigation for sexual misconduct - I fail to see why we should offer excuses for him until we have the the rest of the story.

 

[Wyliefan]

And if it's consenting adults -- I don't mean "barely legal adults being pressured by authority figures to marry and live with strangers" -- I have far fewer problems with a "business marriage" (though U.S. Immigration might not agree with me there).

 

[Trillian]

Every time I taught cultural anthropology and we discussed marriage, US students, especially women, were astonished that much of the world views marriage very differently than forever romantic love, a very much 20th century phenomenon. And chaste marriages are not that uncommon either.

I don’t care who is or is not in love, and I bet a lot of the people involved in this situation are not having sex with each other. But marriage for immigration purposes is a felony in the U.S., so I am concerned that this group of skaters could be facing serious legal and personal consequences when most of them are barely adults, and at least some of them are financially and/or professionally dependent on adults who probably condoned and possibly even encouraged these arrangements.

 

[canbelto]

Maybe I'm naive - which is very likely the case - but I also don't read or listen to DL.

But @Private Citizen has a point on Sex Trafficking is not limited to girls/women.

Is the ick factor due to a male skater from another country is automatically thought to be a sexual abuser? or is the ick factor the female is using him? or is the ick factor the parent's or female's ambition and willing to do anything to get there? or is it because the camp is prostituting their female skaters? I'm trying to understand the ick statement.


WASA camp has always had suspect practices. Should we start there and

The ick factor is that all these marriages are happening within one skating group, and they all follow a formula of girl turning 18 quickly marrying a foreign, imported skater.

And I think 18 is way too young to get married even under the best circumstances, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Coco]

One of the things that gets me about this situation is how astoundingly stupid it is. It’s common knowledge that marriages that could potentially be for immigration purposes are heavily scrutinized, and certainly people within the figure skating community have plenty of experience with that. What on earth did they think was going to happen?

Seriously!! Whoever facilitated / suggested these marriages, I don't know what they were thinking.

 

[BrightSkates]

Seriously!! Whoever facilitated / suggested these marriages, I don't know what they were thinking.

I just really hope USFSA didn't push for it/know about it but I don't think that's true with it being in Colorado Springs. However, even in basic figure skating gossip people didn't expect Vanya and Bella to married or even suspected it so it must have been VERY secret.

 

[Karen-W]

I just really hope USFSA didn't push for it/know about it but I don't think that's true with it being in Colorado Springs. However, even in basic figure skating gossip people didn't expect Vanya and Bella to married or even suspected it so it must have been VERY secret.

Listen, there was gossip being reported here that pointed to secret marriages as far back as March of this year. If that's what was being said on a message board that anyone can access for free (neither GSD nor the Trash Can require a subscription), then you can sure as sh*t be sure that it was an open secret in Colorado Springs. And, as has been noted here in this thread, one of Bella & Vanya's coaches listed in their ISU bio is married to a USFS Senior Performance Manager (or whatever title she's been shuffled into these days), so I have no doubt that there were people at USFS headquarters who knew full well what the h*ll was happening with the WASA ice dance program.

 

[once_upon]

I think 18 is way too young to get married even under the best circumstances, but that's neither here nor there.

I'll be sure to pass along your advice when we attend our friends 55th anniversary and when their son celebrate their 30th.

Back to skating

 

[BrightSkates]

Listen, there was gossip being reported here that pointed to secret marriages as far back as March of this year. If that's what was being said on a message board that anyone can access for free (neither GSD nor the Trash Can require a subscription), then you can sure as sh*t be sure that it was an open secret in Colorado Springs. And, as has been noted here in this thread, one of Bella & Vanya's coaches listed in their ISU bio is married to a USFS Senior Performance Manager (or whatever title she's been shuffled into these days), so I have no doubt that there were people at USFS headquarters who knew full well what the h*ll was happening with the WASA ice dance program.

But then what did they (USFSA) expect was going to happen? That everything would be OK? It wouldn't be a media storm? I guess they weren't expecting the safesport case but even without it- did they think once fans knew it would just blow over

 

[Karen-W]

But then what did they (USFSA) expect was going to happen? That everything would be OK? It wouldn't be a media storm? I guess they weren't expecting the safesport case but even without it- did they think once fans knew it would just blow over

Wellllll, this is the USFS, so I'm guessing "no idea", "yes, and "yes". They certainly couldn't have expected Bella to become the social media starlet she's grown into over the last couple years - and that's definitely going to factor in here however this plays out.

 

[Lara111]

He's had a rough go of it, and I'd understand him running out on his partner, jumping to the US, committing immigration fraud, or having a ton of personal issues in consequence. But I draw the line if he's abused someone, ruined someone else's life. I'm not casting him into the pit but I am not going to feel sympathy at the moment, either. He's under credible investigation for sexual misconduct - I fail to see why we should offer excuses for him until we have the the rest of the story.

Ruined someone else's life is a strong statement unless you really know what happened and it had a potential to ruin a life.The term 'sexual misconduct' is very broad. Not everyone's life is ruined because someone behaved inappropriately toward them. Some people are able to move on and forget, but maybe that's just me. Every situation is different.What I see from what I know so far his life is ruined. Bella will be ok with skating or without with all the money her parents have. Again I do not know what he did. I may change my opinion whne and if I know that.

 

[Alilou]

Ruined someone else's life is a strong statement unless you really know what happened and it had a potential to ruin a life.The term 'sexual misconduct' is very broad. Not everyone's life is ruined because someone behaved inappropriately toward them. Some people are able to move on and forget, but maybe that's just me. Every situation is different.What I see from what I know so far his life is ruined. Bella will be ok with skating or without with all the money her parents have. Again I do not know what he did. I may change my opinion whne and if I know that.

I agree that the phrase "ruined someone's life" bears some exploration as to how this would be defined, but I say - again - whatever it was, it was enough for SafeSport to suspend him, so likely to have been something fairly serious.

 

[overedge]

After listening to his series of talks with Paul Simon where he talked far, far more than he allowed Simon to talk...blech.

Don't believe anything that Malcolm Gladwell tells you. He spins facts and research to fit his own narrative.

But then what did they (USFSA) expect was going to happen? That everything would be OK? It wouldn't be a media storm? I guess they weren't expecting the safesport case but even without it- did they think once fans knew it would just blow over

I suspect that the now-former USFS CEO had a different view of what was going to happen than did the "old guard" and that is why she is now the former CEO. The family connections to the rink with all these partner marriages, and the fact that the judge/official's daughter connected to that rink (the one who defended Coughlin) not only has a job at USFS headquarters but just got another senior position there - this makes me think that the "old guard" is very deeply entrenched in USFS and is not willing to listen to new or different perspectives. And perhaps the now-former CEO got fed up with it, saw this scandal coming, and decided, you know how you want to run things, you go right ahead and do it without me.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Ruined someone else's life is a strong statement unless you really know what happened and it had a potential to ruin a life.The term 'sexual misconduct' is very broad. Not everyone's life is ruined because someone behaved inappropriately toward them. Some people are able to move on and forget, but maybe that's just me. Every situation is different.What I see from what I know so far his life is ruined. Bella will be ok with skating or without with all the money her parents have. Again I do not know what he did. I may change my opinion whne and if I know that.

I don't know what happened or how the victim is coping - that's why I said "if." But I take as given it was a serious incident as they went through the difficulties of reporting it and SafeSport felt it proper to suspend Desyatov while it investigates.

By that same token, what information do you have that his life is ruined?

 

[Lara111]

I don't know what happened or how the victim is coping - that's why I said "if." But I take as given it was a serious incident as they went through the difficulties of reporting it and SafeSport felt it proper to suspend Desyatov while it investigates.

By that same token, what information do you have that his life is ruined?

He will not be able to continue his skating career, not here, probably not anywhere. He has zero support as he does not have parents. He probably will not be able to coach either. He cannot go back to his home country as it is problematic and possibly life-threatening. Does it make sense?

 

[Wyliefan]

I wonder why he didn't take all that into consideration when he (allegedly) decided to assault someone.

 

[Karen-W]

I wonder why he didn't take all that into consideration when he (allegedly) decided to assault someone.

Who knows? We don't have any of the facts of the case, so it would be unwise to speculate. There are certainly situations in which an alleged assailant has impaired judgement and does something that is very likely going to destroy their life and future prospects. That's not an excuse - being stupid is being stupid, but again, we don't have much information at all to go on right now, so maybe we can just lay off the speculation and complete condemnation?

 

[Wyliefan]

It was a rhetorical question. There is no reason to assault someone. Ever.

 

[Lara111]

I wonder why he didn't take all that into consideration when he (allegedly) decided to assault someone.

He probably didn’t think of it that way. There might be some cultural differences at play, so I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is very young. Feel bad for him.

 

[Willin]

I'll be sure to pass along your advice when we attend our friends 55th anniversary and when their son celebrate their 30th.

Back to skating

There's a huge difference between high school sweethearts marrying at 18 and these "marriages."

I don't think any 18 year old marrying someone they met two months prior - someone who doesn't even speak the same language - should be defended on any level. Like yes, 18 year olds do wild stuff all the time. But I don't know any 18 year old who would marry some guy they just met that they can't even talk to.

I also don't know anyone in this day and age who isn't posting their relationship on social media. The boomers post their anniversaries/grandkid/throwback fluff, the millennials post their family/kid/travel photos, the Gen Z post their young and in love photos. Somehow if this was a marriage in the loving sense I think we'd see more affectionate stuff on social media (and Ivan wouldn't be liking sexy photos of other women).

 

[Sparks]

delete

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Wow, he didn’t mean it, it’s just cultural differences. You are bending over backwards to make excuses.

If Desyatov is cleared, he can go on with his career. If the suspension is made permanent (because he abused someone!) he doesn’t belong in skating. He can find another job. He’s young, healthy, and has friends and family to help. And clearly, plenty of other people who will be ready to shrug off his behavior.