Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[skategal]

@Private Citizen you still seem to be assuming the impact of having an accused rapist in one's midst is limited both in scale and in severity. You mention having separate practices and warmups, which seems to suggest you at most think this is an issue for fellow competitors and possibly coaches, but what about judges, officials, event volunteers, arena employees and audience members? Do they all walk out of the arena when he's there? And even if they did, would that still prevent the PTSD from a prior sexual assault that might be triggered? (Again, statistically, 18%+ of women are victims of sexual assault.)

You also seem to imply that the accused's financial well being is more important than the mental well being of all of the victims of SA who will inevitably be at the competition (in whatever capacity) when the accused is present. Rather than being an individual rights issue, I would frame it as a public health issue (not surprising that we differ on this given our differing POVs on other public health issues, but let's leave that for PI), and in public health, the overall wellness of the public at large generally outweigh the rights of any single individual.

ETA: And I do appreciate your concern for the difference between being accused and being convicted, but in general, when one is accused of sexual assault, that person is isolated from the public, whether voluntarily or against their will via a suspension, adminisrative leave, etc.

I’m not arguing with any of your points but just wanted to say that I’m not aware of any precedent in Canada to bench an athlete under investigation and accused of sexual assault. If someone is, please share.

The handling of the Hockey Canada scandal (with video proof of SA) is in Sorenson’s favour as all players under investigation have not yet been named publicly or been refused to play in the NHL.

Thus, it probably won’t be different for Sorensen.

It perhaps should not be that way, but this it what we are dealing with right now.

 

[BlueRidge]

I’m not arguing with any of your points but just wanted to say that I’m not aware of any precedent in Canada to bench an athlete under investigation and accused of sexual assault. If someone is, please share.

The handling of the Hockey Canada scandal (with video proof of SA) is in Sorenson’s favour as all players under investigation have not yet been named publicly or been refused to play in the NHL.

Thus, it probably won’t be different for Sorensen.

It perhaps should not be that way, but this it what we are dealing with right now.

Discussions of how it should be different are fine, but we do need to know what is realistic at this time. From my reading of posts here, nothing will be done while the case is still in process. How people handle the situation of someone with a serious allegation lodged against them, whether fans, other skaters, officials, etc, is going to be up to them.

So far it all seems like it will be very quiet which given that there are not other rules in place is probably the best to be hoped for.

 

[Private Citizen]

Judges, officials, event volunteers, etc. can recuse themselves. Audience members can get a ticket refunded. Their lives won't change dramatically over this. There are far easier, if not perfect, remedies for PTSD and all of the things you mention. There is no remedy if Sorensen were to be banned and later found not guilty. You're rendering what is essentially a final decision in a process that's still under investigation.

I think we need some level of due process and fact-finding, and ideally a published policy.

Ridiculous example: Imagine it's the Olympics and Larry Loupolover (just picking an obscure name) accuses the other 29 men of gang-raping him. Should we crown Larry the Olympic champion? That's different, you say? How? What are the criteria that leads us to believe Sorensen's accuser enough to ban him, but not Larry Loupolover?

Slightly less ridiculous: Imagine Kamila Valieva is cleared from her drug charges, returns to the Olympics, and says on the night before the short program that Ilia Malinin fondled her? Imagine also that a Russian is favored to take gold if only Malinin were out of the picture. Do we believe it or not, and why?

Actually happened example: Oksana Grishuk has accused Alexander Zhulin of "grooming" her, with full knowledge of and support of Maya Usova in an elaborate plot to remove G&P as rivals. (There's some evidence to back up Grishuk's claims: she posted a picture the three of them looking very chummy, with Maya smiling and Grishuk obviously wearing her Zhulin's wedding ring around her neck.) Obviously, Usova denies this claim and has a different version of the truth, with some evidence to back up her claim, e.g., the infamous Spago incident. Should Usova and Zhulin have been banned from the 1994 Olympics while these claims were investigated? Should Grishuk and Platov have been banned over Grishuk having an affair with Zhulin? Should we ban them both and go back and crown Torvill and Dean 2x Olympic champions? Where does it end? According to what criteria are the decisions made?

Bans without some level of due process, and without some kind of grounding in formal written policy, are ripe for abuse. I am completely uncomfortable with requiring people to disprove "X said - Y said" situations in order to compete.

If people want to argue that there should be a process, yes. An expedited emergency hearing where a panel makes a decision whether the incident was "more likely than not" to have happened? Sure. A ban based on an accusation? I'm not going to be convinced on this one.

 

[skategal]

Discussions of how it should be different are fine, but we do need to know what is realistic at this time. From my reading of posts here, nothing will be done while the case is still in process. How people handle the situation of someone with a serious allegation lodged against them, whether fans, other skaters, officials, etc, is going to be up to them.

So far it all seems like it will be very quiet which given that there are not other rules in place is probably the best to be hoped for.

I suspect Skate Canada will have some limitations on Sorensen this week at Nationals and going forward to 4CC and Worlds but we are unlikely to know about it due to the gag rule.

 

[rfisher]

I suspect Skate Canada will have some limitations on Sorensen this week at Nationals and going forward to 4CC and Worlds but we are unlikely to know about it due to the gag rule.

And, this is my major objection to Brennen and USA Today's publication. Under the rules of the investigating committee, all the parties are under a gag rule which is to protect them from trial by public and public harassment (which apparently has already happened). Sorensen cannot respond to the USA article by virtue of the rule and I'm certain legal council. Same for Skate Canada and likely IAM. There is a reason for the gag rule and I think the press should not be able to access any materials until the investigation is complete and a response has been issued. If this team were not the current Canadian champions in ice dance, and the accused were a lower level skater, USA Today wouldn't have bothered so I don't buy the argument they are just trying to protect the public.

 

[once_upon]

Rape is assault and violence. What happens when someone is accused of a violent attack?

Are they allowed to continue to work until a trial? Are they allowed to interact with potential victims? (I really don't know)

At this point in the process, it seems the law is being circumvented and referred to an independent agency to do a secret investigation rather than a legsl system and court.

For those who want a conviction before doing anything, go through the legal steps. Arrest, preliminary hearing, set bail and/or restrictions for interactions with public, set trial date. Set protection orders. Plea and rule to seal any court hearings.

In my estimation-you can't have it your way of no restrictions if you don't follow laws that would pertain to anyone not an athlete.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Rape is assault and violence. What happens when someone is accused of a violent attack?

Are they allowed to continue to work until a trial? Are they allowed to interact with potential victims? (I really don't know)

At this point in the process, it seems the law is being circumvented and referred to an independent agency to do a secret investigation rather than a legsl system and court.

For those who want a conviction before doing anything, go through the legal steps. Arrest, preliminary hearing, set bail and/or restrictions for interactions with public, set trial date. Set protection orders. Plea and rule to seal any court hearings.

In my estimation-you can't have it your way of no restrictions if you don't follow laws that would pertain to anyone not an athlete.

The gag rule applies to OSIC but I presume that it does not apply to SafeSport. Brennan probably got a FOI to see the SafeSport complaint so I doubt any rules were broken. It's super tricky because this investigation involves Canada, the US and Denmark. And in Canada, many victims have complained about the OSIC gag rule as they'd like to be able to discuss their cases publicly.

 

[once_upon]

The gag rule applies to OSIC but I presume that it does not apply to SafeSport. Brennan probably got a FOI to see the SafeSport complaint so I doubt any rules were broken. It's super tricky because this investigation involves Canada, the US and Denmark. And in Canada, many victims have complained about the OSIC gag rule as they'd like to be able to discuss their cases publicly.

I'm not sure if you are referring to my comment or rfisher's.

My question is what would the process be for any other person, not an athlete, who committed violent assault. What is the legal process? Would a Nik Public Citizen be allowed animonity and bypassing the LEGAL process?

 

[BlueRidge]

I'm not sure if you are referring to my comment or rfisher's.

My question is what would the process be for any other person, not an athlete, who committed violent assault. What is the legal process? Would a Nik Public Citizen be allowed animonity and bypassing the LEGAL process?

My understanding from what has been posted is that the alleged rape happened in Connecticut, USA, 11 years ago and the statute of limitations has passed on making a criminal charge.

For someone not a skater there probably would be no recourse now. For the skater there is some accountability through specific sports processes.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I'm not sure if you are referring to my comment or rfisher's.

My question is what would the process be for any other person, not an athlete, who committed violent assault. What is the legal process? Would a Nik Public Citizen be allowed animonity and bypassing the LEGAL process?

And, this is my major objection to Brennen and USA Today's publication. Under the rules of the investigating committee, all the parties are under a gag rule which is to protect them from trial by public and public harassment (which apparently has already happened).

Oops, kind of both. And very good question - if this were a criminal case in Canada, Sorensen would be named and would have restrictions on his movement. But under the OSIC process, who knows?

 

[BlueRidge]

Oops, kind of both. And very good question - if this were a criminal case in Canada, Sorensen would be named and would have restrictions on his movement. But under the OSIC process, who knows?

But the incident did not happen in Canada so there wouldn't be criminal charges in Canada.

If the question is 'is he getting special treatment that someone not an athlete would not get?' the answer seems to me to be no.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

But the incident did not happen in Canada so there wouldn't be criminal charges in Canada.

If the question is 'is he getting special treatment that someone not an athlete would not get?' the answer seems to me to be no.

Good point about where the incident occurred. I suspect that's an additional reason why USA Today was OK with reporting the details. Heck, it's possible OSIC will decide that the case is not within their jurisdiction as Sorensen wasn't competing for Canada as the time.

 

[once_upon]

My understanding from what has been posted is that the alleged rape happened in Connecticut, USA, 11 years ago and the statute of limitations has passed on making a criminal charge.

For someone not a skater there probably would be no recourse now. For the skater there is some accountability through specific sports processes.

I'm not sure - but i think in some cases the age of the victim at the time of the incident has bearing on the statute of limitations?

Anyway my question was more on the special treatment afforded perps under the secrecy of these investigations

 

[BlueRidge]

I'm not sure - but i think in some cases the age of the victim at the time of the incident has bearing on the statues of limitations?

It was posted here that this alleged rape has past the statute of limitations in Connecticut where it was alleged to have been committed.

I don't have any more knowledge than that.

The person making the accusation was according to the reports, an adult at the time.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The statute of limitations is up. There is no criminal court recourse.

SafeSport and its equivalent were established by legislatures. They were given specific powers and limitations.

State licensing organizations have different standards and legal authority and obligations to act.

Professional organizations have different legal obligations, depending on whom they interact with, and authority to set processes and rules for enforcing their professional codes.

Different professions have different legal obligations that can be audience-specific, especially, but not exclusively, when dealing with minors and people who are considered incapacitated in any way.

Some have specific procedures and policies in place when it comes to suspensions, ex: if indicted, or SafeSport puts the file in X status, or the person is under an official investigation, then the org is supposed to do XYZ. Other policies are vague, like codes of conduct without specific policies about who decides how to enforce them, what constitutes evidence of having proven them orif evidence is needed to suspend. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that Skate Canada has a policy that says they will do ABC if the investigation is in progress, vs. a decision has been made or what Skate Canada’s legal obligations are, either because it is the recognized federation for championships, because of how it is funded, or anything else, but they’re certainly the gatekeeper for who gets to participate in elite competition. There isn’t a lot of precedent for organizations like SafeSport and OSIC, and the timelines because of backlogs and the amount of time it takes for an investigation adds a wrench into the balancing act.

There is no one-size-fits-all, and criminal-conviction-or-nothing is not the norm for civil and procedural cases, which this is.

As far as Brennan’s article is concerned, she didn’t leak anything she was not entitled to see or research, and the entity to which the report was submitted and which is investigating was created in the public interest. She did not demand statements from people under gag orders, no matter how much Lease flaps around demanding statements from IAM.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

But the incident did not happen in Canada so there wouldn't be criminal charges in Canada.

If the question is 'is he getting special treatment that someone not an athlete would not get?' the answer seems to me to be no.

So I would 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt be suspended from my job if I was in this situation. However, that is somewhat of a special case. I can imagine other professions other than teaching (lawyer, potentially?) where you would also be suspended in this case, but I doubt it's all jobs.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I'm not sure - but i think in some cases the age of the victim at the time of the incident has bearing on the statute of limitations?

Apparently, the victim has no recourse under Connecticut law. Other than filing OSIC and SafeSport complaints, I suppose the only other thing to do would be to sue in civil court.

 

[BlueRidge]

So I would 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt be suspended from my job if I was in this situation. However, that is somewhat of a special case. I can imagine other professions other than teaching (lawyer, potentially?) where you would also be suspended in this case, but I doubt it's all jobs.

Yes it would be dependent on what sector the accused was in and what rules that industry has in place, if any.

I think there should be rules for organizations and industries that aren't there yet. This needs to be a goal.

 

[skategal]

If Sorensen was not an athlete he would walk away from this case scot free.

The statue of limitations is up in Connecticut and Canada can’t prosecute because it didn’t happen here.

I’m sure Sorensen would rather be treated as the average non-athlete Joe on the street.

 

[ice coverage]

The gag rule applies to OSIC but I presume that it does not apply to SafeSport. Brennan probably got a FOI to see the SafeSport complaint so I doubt any rules were broken. It's super tricky because this investigation involves Canada, the US and Denmark. And in Canada, many victims have complained about the OSIC gag rule as they'd like to be able to discuss their cases publicly.

As a procedural point: U.S. SafeSport is an independent non-profit. It is not an agency of the federal government.
FOIA gives the public the right to request records from federal agencies. It would not apply to U.S. SafeSport.

(To be clear: I am not/not/not casting aspersions on Brennan's journalistic enterprise, and never was.)

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

As a procedural point: U.S. SafeSport is an independent non-profit. It is not an agency of the federal government.
FOIA gives the public the right to request records from federal agencies. It would not apply to U.S. SafeSport.

(To be clear: I am not/not/not casting aspersions on Brennan's journalistic enterprise.)

Thanks, as a Canucker I don't know anything about SafeSport. Are SafeSport complaints publicly accessible?

 

[Vagabond]

Would SafeSport even be involved in this matter? Sørensen (like Morgan Ciprès) never skated for the United States. He trained in the United States, and the incident allegedly occurred in the United States, but I don't think that SafeSport has any jurisdiction over this matter.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Would SafeSport even be involved in this matter? Sørensen (like Morgan Ciprès) never skated for the United States. He trained in the United States, and the incident allegedly occurred in the United States, but I don't think that SafeSport has any jurisdiction over this matter.

I just looked at the SafeSport website process chart which states "Was the alleged misconduct committed by a Participant within the U.S. Olympic & Paralympic Movement?" So it seems to me that technically SafeSport isn't able to be involved. Brennan must have gotten her info from the victim's lawyer.

 

[PRlady]

So I would 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt be suspended from my job if I was in this situation. However, that is somewhat of a special case. I can imagine other professions other than teaching (lawyer, potentially?) where you would also be suspended in this case, but I doubt it's all jobs.

Police accused of brutality or even having killed someone in a firefight are placed on paid administrative leave until their cases are resolved (often with bias towards the police.) This removes a potentially bad cop from contact with the public. Since skaters are not paid but rather win prize money, there’s no equivalent to alleviating the harm of not being able to compete.

That said, judges are human and I’d guess the allegations will harm the team’s prospects, at least internationally. They were possibly looking at a fifth place finish at Worlds and a medal at 4Cs based on recent results (and could finish behind LaLa and possibly H/B with a subpar performance.) As there is no way to know how they would be judged and where they would finish under these circumstances, there’s no way to compensate them if they don’t compete in the unlikely, to me, result that Nik is deemed innocent.

 

[Debbie S]

Would SafeSport even be involved in this matter? Sørensen (like Morgan Ciprès) never skated for the United States. He trained in the United States, and the incident allegedly occurred in the United States, but I don't think that SafeSport has any jurisdiction over this matter.

At this point, no. The Brennan article said that SafeSport had placed a "hold" on Nik's name so that if he ever applied to be a coach in the U.S., they would start an investigation. But at the moment, they have no jurisdiction.

 

[pat c]

So, to summarize, N. Sorensen can compete.
Statue of limitations is long past in the USA.
Possibility of subpar performance and/or tainted judging is possible.
Coaching opportunities for N. Sorensen are limited if he wants to coach in the US.

So, now what? Laws are different from country to country, and what do we do with situations like this?

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

So, to summarize, N. Sorensen can compete.
Statue of limitations is long past in the USA.
Possibility of subpar performance and/or tainted judging is possible.
Coaching opportunities for N. Sorensen are limited if he wants to coach in the US.

So, now what? Laws are different from country to country, and what do we do with situations like this?

It seems to me that there needs to be some kind of international SafeSport to cover cases of athletes from different countries.

 

[skategal]

It seems to me that there needs to be some kind of international SafeSport to cover cases of athletes from different countries.

Ordinarily that would be the law of the country the alleged crime was committed in but once the statute of limitations runs out there is a loophole as we all recognize with this case.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

It seems to me that there needs to be some kind of international SafeSport to cover cases of athletes from different countries.

Not to be unkind or put any burden on you specifically, but that will take a rather large effort of athletes and other interested parties to lobby for and demand for that to be accomplished. Instead of (or in addition to) complaining here about this specific allegation, perhaps such energy and passion should be spent actively engaged in that effort, as difficult as that may be.

 

[Vagabond]

So, to summarize, N. Sorensen can compete.
Statue of limitations is long past in the USA.
Possibility of subpar performance and/or tainted judging is possible.
Coaching opportunities for N. Sorensen are limited if he wants to coach in the US.

So, now what? Laws are different from country to country, and what do we do with situations like this?

According to Brennan's article, all the complainant wants to accomplish is to prevent him from coaching. If he never coaches again, dayenu!