Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[MacMadame]

The book they assisted with

You mean the book that both authors continually insist they didn't assist with?

 

[aftershocks]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask whether perhaps H & M are trying to have their cake and eat it too a bit. I think they probably are.

You seem like a reasonable person @mjb52. The above is your opinion obviously, but based on what, exactly? If you don't take the time to thoroughly read reliable information about the Sussexes, listen to their many interviews and speeches, read their own writings and public statements, look at a variety of documentaries about them, especially the many documentaries about Harry and the royal family, then you're skating on thin ice with your opinions. That goes for @starrynight too, and everyone else here who are simply talking off the top of their heads with limited knowledge, or with f'ed-up knowledge gleaned from tabloid crapsh*t.

I have an academic interest in the British royal family and a deep interest in Harry & Meghan generally, because I'm impressed by their characters and by the way they conduct themselves in the world. But I didn't arrive at my opinion of the Sussexes without doing my homework first, and perusing at a lot of information with an open mind, and with the benefit of past knowledge that I've gained and learned from since the 1970s.

The short answer for you is, No, Meghan and Harry are not 'trying to have their cake, and eat it too.' They are genuinely passionate about giving back to others and making a difference in the world. They both put effort, thoughtful reflection, money, and dedicated action where their mouths are. The fact that Meghan is wealthy by the dint of her hard work, determination, positive attitude, and self-direction means that she's earned her high class, privileged lifestyle. Harry was born into ancient wealth, but that really is not why he's a successful leader on the world stage. If you think so, you're wrong. And those people who believe Harry isn't smart, actually don't know anything relevant about who he actually is, nor have they likely bothered to read substantive information about him or to watch substantive documentaries about him with an open mind.

If any of you who hold dismissive and derogatory opinions about the Sussexes would pay more attention to what the Sussexes are actually doing and figure out how to form independent knowledge-based opinions, rather than listening to leech-like, uneducated, selfishly motivated royal reporters, maybe you might recognize the faultiness of your assessments. The 'having cake and eating it too' expression is something you've probably heard bandied about in vile tabloids, and by airheads on entertainment talk shows and royalty podcasts, many of which were created to cash in on the avalanche of interest in M&H and in the royal family in the aftermath of M&H's courtship, engagement and marriage.

Do you actually understand what that cliched expression is supposed to mean in connection to the Sussexes?

 

[starrynight]

You mean the book that both authors continually insist they didn't assist with?

When Meghan and Harry make a statement and/or lawsuit condemning the book and the incredibly private revelations it made, I'll believe they had nothing to do with it.

 

[overedge]

I can't help but remember that Diana denied she had anything to do with Andrew Morton's book about her, and he denied it too. It wasn't until Diana passed away that Morton revealed how extensively she had been involved. IIRC Morton also used information from "friends" who said things on behalf of Diana, i.e. Diana supplied the information but she told it to a friend who then conveyed it to Morton, so that Diana couldn't be directly blamed for leaking it.

Keep in mind too that a book takes significantly more effort to research and write than, say, a magazine article. So the authors of the H&M book must have had some very reliable and patient sources, that they were in contact with for several months at least, to supply them with material. I'm not saying that H&M were direct sources, but they could have funnelled information through friends like Diana did with Morton.

Also, from what I can find, H&M have stated through their publicist that they didn't participate in the book. However, they also haven't publicly contradicted anything in it. Which is kind of surprising, given that they're taking other media outlets to court for allegedly invading their privacy.

 

[taf2002]

When Meghan and Harry make a statement and/or lawsuit condemning the book and the incredibly private revelations it made, I'll believe they had nothing to do with it.

What you believe has nothing to do with anything. And who are you that they have to prove anything to you? You are determined to believe the worst of them no matter what.

 

[starrynight]

And who are you that they have to prove anything to you?

I believe that the royal family should be held publicly accountable. Public accountability developed over time is why they are not still an absolute monarchy and why there is parliamentary democracy. The British royal family were clever enough to get ahead on this curve, as compared to say the French royal family who all ended up headless due to an inability to adapt.

If they are just Kardashian type celebs, they are only accountable to themselves. But as long as they are Duke and Duchess they sit in a different category.

My point is one bad plane crash or terrorist attack could leave these two as the head of state of my country. They are not Paris Hilton.

 

[taf2002]

I believe that the royal family should be held publicly accountable. Public accountability developed over time is why they are not still an absolute monarchy and why there is parliamentary democracy. The British royal family were clever enough to get ahead on this curve, as compared to say the French royal family who all ended up headless due to an inability to adapt.

If they are just Kardashian type celebs, they are only accountable to themselves. But as long as they are Duke and Duchess they sit in a different category.

What exactly do they need to be accountable for? Spending what Harry inherited? Getting paid for giving speeches? Breathing the air? You're really spiteful, aren't you?

 

[starrynight]

You're really spiteful, aren't you?

I suppose people with republican sentiments would be seen that way?

Although I think that having reservations about unelected leaders appointed for a life time duration isn’t unreasonable.

But I don’t like politicians much either, so installing another layer of them instead isn’t exactly appealing as an alternative option either.

 

[MacMadame]

Although I think that having reservations about unelected leaders appointed for a life time duration isn’t unreasonable.

Only the Queen has any sort of political power though.

The only power everyone else in the royal family has to lead is the power given to them by people. IOW, if I don't want to be lead by them, I don't have to be. In that way, the royal family really is just celebrities with tiaras and titles.

 

[starrynight]

Only the Queen has any sort of political power though.

I think everyone feels comfortable with this arrangement because of how the Queen has operated over her life.

But gosh if the wrong person became monarch it could cause all kinds of strife. Although maybe it is self correcting. King Edward was forced to abdicate due to unsuitability to lead Britain through WW2 so this scenario has been approached and dealt with in the past.

 

[Vagabond]

What you believe has nothing to do with anything. And who are you that they have to prove anything to you? You are determined to believe the worst of them no matter what.

This is an Internet forum. If you don't want to read other people's opinions, then you should consider spending time elsewhere.

That's just my opinion, of course.

 

[MacMadame]

I think everyone feels comfortable with this arrangement because of how the Queen has operated over her life.

But gosh if the wrong person became monarch it could cause all kinds of strife. Although maybe it is self correcting. King Edward was forced to abdicate due to unsuitability to lead Britain through WW2 so this scenario has been approached and dealt with in the past.

This is irrelevant to your criticisms of H+M though. They are not the Queen and are not "unelected leaders".

 

[ballettmaus]

Reading today's posts made me think that maybe it would be best if Harry and Meghan were left alone for a while, no publicity other than through serious news outlets and what they choose to release through spokespeople, so that they can properly establish who they are. There's just so much additional noise that seems entirely unnecessary and not helpful.

 

[aftershocks]

Maybe all of this will settle down in time... The book they assisted with is making things 100x worse.

Worse in what way? And worse for who or what exactly? You should be upset with the British tabloids, not with Meghan and Harry. Most of the stuff written about them in the British media is baseless crap.

Apparently you aren't willing to understand that M&H didn't write the FF book. And any so-called 'assistance' only extended to allowing their friends to speak with the authors, whom M&H apparently both regard as fair and professional journalists. Plus, there's nothing wrong with a more fair-minded, well-researched book on the Sussexes being published.

Everyone so pearl-clutchy and falsely riled-up and nitpicky over Meghan and Harry due to tabloid lies, should be more worried about the direction your own paths in life are taking. The Sussexes have forged brilliant lives together that have given them personal happiness, access, connections, and platforms which they are using responsibly to both enjoy their God-given blessings and good fortune, and more importantly to give back to others in need in ways that have made an important difference in the lives of so many people around the world. You think not? Think again. M&H are also in the process of building a family with prodigious love, and dedication toward raising caring and responsible offspring.

The Sussex Squad who have been inspired by who Meghan and Harry are, and by the passionate humanitarian work they are involved in, have made a huge difference with numerous fundraisers over the past year-and-a-half that have benefited a number of charities supported by and advocated for by M&H. Currently the #inspiredbyMeghan and #inspiredbyHarry fundraising project on behalf of CamFed (in honor of Meghan's and Harry's birthdays) has to date raised more than $65,000 to fund the college educations of at least 35 and counting, talented and needy young women in African countries.

Other charities that have benefited from past fundraisers include, WellChild, TinyTickers, Myna Mahila Foundation in India, Sentebale, SmartWorks, Save The Children, The Mayhew, The Association of Commonwealth Universities, to name just a few. There was also a successful campaign started last fall in honor of Archie, to plant 100,000 trees before his first birthday on May 6, 2020 (@SussexGtForest). The initial goal was to plant 10,000 trees, but that goal was achieved within 5 days, so a larger goal was set. By the May 6th date, about 114,000 trees were planted worldwide. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Meghan and Harry have reached out often to thank their supporters, most recently speaking by phone twice to Dani Trin (who spearheaded the Archie's First Birthday fundraiser for children's charities, and she was one of two people who worked on the recent CamFed fundraiser). M&H have also recently spoken directly to the other member of the Sussex Squad who worked on the CamFed fundraiser, and who also launched the first successful Sussex Squad fundraiser in honor of Archie's birth, the widely reported 2019 #GlobalSussexBabyShower.

For your further enlightenment, Megxit trolls and Sussex haters (many of whom call themselves Cambridge fans, apparently by virtue of ignorantly disliking the Sussexes, rather than being positively inspired by the Cambridges) , have swamped the Twitter and Instagram accounts of Jennifer Garner (of Save The Children) and the Twitter accounts of Emily Ramshaw (of The 19th), Rashad Robinson (of #ColorofChange), the L.A. charity Project Angel Food, and Father Greg Boyle's Homeboys Industries, with hate-filled drivel. This, simply because such Sussex trolls have nothing better to do than to hate on Meghan and Harry and on every positive project and organization they are connected with. To paraphrase your words @starrynight, hopefully such vile nastiness by bitter, unhappy, hate-filled scumbags 'will begin to die down soon!'

https://twitter.com/eramshaw/status/1292310449451675650

Emily Ramshaw:
"I’ve faced my fair share of trolls and bots over the years. It takes a lot to make me uneasy. But royal twitter is the absolute worst... My mentions are a dumpster fire of hate."

So those who don't know much about the British monarchy are certainly realizing with full force some of the reasons why M&H left the royal firm behind. The world is watching.

 

[starrynight]

This is irrelevant to your criticisms of H+M though. They are not the Queen and are not "unelected leaders".

I totally understand the argument that there is a line of The Queen, Charles, William etc and they are the only three that actually matter in any constitutional sense.

Perhaps this does really make an argument for Charles’ plan for a scaled back royal family where only the ones directly in line with clearly defined responsibilities and roles are pulled into the system and platform.

 

[aftershocks]

When Meghan and Harry make a statement and/or lawsuit condemning the book...

The Sussexes have already released a statement about the book through their representatives. Try to pay attention. That the Sussexes' statement about FF is not one of condemnation, is something you'll just have to learn how to live with, or else continue rattling on about it with uninformed blather.

Reading today's posts made me think that maybe it would be best if Harry and Meghan were left alone for a while, no publicity other than through serious news outlets and what they choose to release through spokespeople, so that they can properly establish who they are. There's just so much additional noise that seems entirely unnecessary and not helpful.

Sigh. You need to separate the work Meghan and Harry are doing independently from what you are saying about 'publicity.' In addition, you could ask the British tabloids to please stop writing crap about Meghan and Harry. Or else, you can just stop reading and posting about Meghan and Harry for awhile, if that might make you feel better.

There's definitely a lot of 'additional noise' that's 'entirely unnecessary and not helpful.' But it's largely coming from demented Sussex trolls and from negative, twisted, gaslighting stories and demeaning commentary on British broadcasts and published in the British media, often sadly with input and assistance from royal courtiers, etc. It's about maligning the Sussexes to try and uselessly prevent them from being successful. As well, quite a number of these stories are written for clickbait dollars, and to distract from focusing on Prince Andrew's woes. This noisy, negative strategy by the tabloids and by royal courtiers against the Sussexes is only serving to cast a negative image on the royal firm, and to raise the Sussexes' positive profile even higher.

 

[ballettmaus]

Sigh. You need to separate the work Meghan and Harry are doing independently from what you are saying about 'publicity.' In addition, you could ask the British tabloids to please stop writing crap about Meghan and Harry.

No publicity kind of includes that.

Or else, you can just stop reading and posting about Meghan and Harry for awhile, if that might make you feel better.

Yeah, like that would help them establish who they are, shake the negativity and get the public/media to focus on their causes.

 

[aftershocks]

If they are just Kardashian type celebs, they are only accountable to themselves. But as long as they are Duke and Duchess they sit in a different category.

Why do you keep trying to paint Meghan and Harry as out-of-touch royal grifters though? They've already left the antiquated royal firm behind because those in charge are apparently too snobby, short-sighted, and/or too weak-willed and old-fashioned to be able to see the forest for the trees.

No publicity kind of includes that.

Those tabloid defaming articles have absolutely nothing to do with publicity for M&H. They have to do mostly with clickbait dollars, and misguided attempts by the media in cahoots with palace sources to demean the Sussexes and to distract from other more serious issues the royal firm is facing ineptly and incompetently.

 

[starrynight]

Yeah, like that would help them establish who they are, shake the negativity and get the public/media to focus on their causes.

Ignoring them is probably really good advice. I’ve learnt to completely block out anything about president Trump and USA politics and it’s personally great. Although whether that’s a good thing on the whole is another question entirely.

 

[aftershocks]

Yeah, like that would help them establish who they are, shake the negativity and get the public/media to focus on their causes.

What are you trying to say. The Sussexes do not require ill-informed, biased people who prefer reading and believing tabloid crap to 'establish who they are.' FYI-- Who Meghan and Harry are is already established, known, and increasingly being understood and appreciated in the world by people of consequence, good sense and goodwill. Those will be the humans who matter and who will make a difference during these difficult and changing times we are all facing. The haters need to either take a time out, die out, do penance, or get swallowed up in a swamp somewhere.

 

[ballettmaus]

Those tabloid defaming articles have absolutely nothing to do with publicity for M&H.

Whether you like it or not, it is publicity. It's not publicity that they want and I'm assuming don't deserve but it is publicity.

Ignoring them is probably really good advice.

I'm not talking about ignoring them. I'm talking about allowing them to control the narrative. Like I said, just serious news coverage about things that they, and only they, release. I know it's not going to happen but I think it would be good for them.

 

[ballettmaus]

FYI-- Who Meghan and Harry are is already established,

Really? So, I guess, that there's always a grain of truth to rumors only applies when there's a rumor about William cheating and not to anything that is said about Meghan and Harry?

Sarcasm aside, even if we leave the tabloids out of it, there have been things that they have said and done that have not done them a lot of favors or have been met with skepticism. I think it would be beneficial for them and their causes if the media circus around them died down. They don't want it and I think it distracts from their causes. Like I said, let them control the narrative.

 

[starrynight]

Like I said, just serious news coverage

Serious news coverage could actually be way more intimidating. Politicians get serious news coverage and it often isn’t pretty in terms of the intensity of its examinations.

A world away from the fluff of a little celebrity interview in Vanity Fair magazine.

 

[aftershocks]

I can't help but remember that Diana denied she had anything to do with Andrew Morton's book about her, and he denied it too.

So what. Does 2 + 2 = 5?

And in any case, what actual difference does it make in the scheme of things. The reported extent of any so-called 'assistance' by M&H was giving their friends permission to talk with the authors Durand and Scobie, both of whom the Susseses apparently trust to be fair and professional journalists. And obviously, the Sussexes have loyal friends with whom they shared intimate details of their courtship and their married lives post the royal wedding.

This over-focus on the more positive and well-researched FF book, just like the details about the necklace brouhaha (the false tiara-gate, and the pre-wedding dress fitting 'Kate-crying' nonsense that never happened) is all made-to-order 'tempest-in-a-teapot' noisy clickbait distraction tactics.

And psst, Diana PoW weathered the agony of a gilded cage existence during an entirely different time, in a different pre-Internet, pre-social media world. The Sussexes do not need to rely solely on media outlets to get across the most important messages they want to get across to the public. Harry has spoken to us directly, and so has Meghan, and they have previously utilized their own social media and their former website. Plus, they have utilized charities as well to get information across about the worthy projects they are working on.

The FF book offers more fair-minded viewpoints in a sea of trashy bile, and it's nice to have it out there, but it's not crucial to the positive and far-reaching things the Sussexes are doing with their lives and with their high profile platform. Think of the book as a bit of push back (mainly from the authors and their sources), and as lucrative icing on the cake for the authors, as well as largely positive reading for Sussex supporters.

 

[taf2002]

I think everyone feels comfortable with this arrangement because of how the Queen has operated over her life.

But gosh if the wrong person became monarch it could cause all kinds of strife. Although maybe it is self correcting. King Edward was forced to abdicate due to unsuitability to lead Britain through WW2 so this scenario has been approached and dealt with in the past.

Don't rewrite history. Edward abdicated to marry Wallis Simpson. He wasn't forced to abdicate, he chose to. It had nothing to do with his suitability to lead. And what do you mean "republican sentiments"? I am a Democrat.

 

[aftershocks]

Like I said, just serious news coverage about things that they, and only they, release. I know it's not going to happen but I think it would be good for them.

I mean duh. That's what the Sussexes have been fighting for in the first place. It's why they have brought suits against media outlets. It's why they were advocating for the royal firm to make changes in the way they have been conducting business with the ingrained and leech-like royal rota (exclusive team of royal reporters associated with a number of tabloid newspapers). The royal firm refused to listen to M&H. Instead, they gave them the runaround, and the push aside, which is what led to M&H taking a more direct stand (with their comments in the SA documentary), and eventually taking the necessary step to leave the monarchy behind.

It's not a perfect world. And nobody ever said that being a high-profile member of the royal family was a piece-of-cake. The real problem is not Meghan and Harry. The real problem lies with the shadowy 'grey men' and their out-of-touch view of the world, as well as with members of the royal family who don't realize how quickly the world is changing, and that antiquated protocol, conflicting palace fiefdoms, and outdated ways of doing things will not keep the tide from turning against the monarchy.

 

[overedge]

Sarcasm aside, even if we leave the tabloids out of it, there have been things that they have said and done that have not done them a lot of favors or have been met with skepticism. I think it would be beneficial for them and their causes if the media circus around them died down. They don't want it and I think it distracts from their causes.

I agree, but if they don't want a media circus, then they shouldn't be employing a publicist. They can do whatever kinds of activism they want to do without sending out press releases about it.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ The Sussexes don't have a lot of control over the 'media circus.' They are doing the best they can to minimize the intrusiveness. What don't you guys understand about drones being flown above the property where they are living??? The tabloids are making money off of the crap they are writing about the Sussexes. The best the Sussexes could do was to sue the tabloids on valid grounds, cease having anything to do with the worst designated tabloids, and make an effort to dry up the palace leaks about their lives. They've done this, so once again, you aren't particularly paying close attention to what's been happening.

There is huge interest in the Sussexes' lives because of who Harry is, and because of his and Meghan's charismatic personalities and their engaging love story. The negativity that was purposely created around M&H by palace operatives and by rotten royal reporters has only served to heighten their profile and their popularity with supporters of goodwill around the world. The fact that M&H are both deeply interested in and passionate about making a difference in the world, with many individual accomplishments they'd already achieved prior to meeting each other, makes both of them even more substantive and interesting together.

And bingo, the Sussexes' substantive and interesting personalities are part of why things sadly didn't work out for them within the royal firm. As many observers have noted, it's been a huge loss for the royal firm. What were they thinking? Oh, that's right, they weren't thinking. They were listening to outdated, snobby, insecure advice from the 'grey men,' and humoring Wills and his KP crew because WTF, Wills is FFK (future-future-king), heir to the British throne who by his own self-centered admission to a Times reporter at a pub last fall, can "no longer put my arms around my brother."

I take no joy in stating these facts. I just hope Wills will soon be able to get over his 'incandescent rage' triggered apparently when the Sussexes decided to step down from royal duties, at least according to leaked comments by the 'grey men'/ royal courtiers, in January. This, after the Times had reported on Easter Sunday in 2019 that Wills was interested in seeing the Sussexes move away, possibly to Africa, because he was worried about their popularity taking away from his public image. This was later of course, cleaned up and re-hashed in fifty different ways and scenarios that had little to do with the original report by a political reporter, not a royal reporter.

You will not find any of version of that in the FF book, because of course, Prince William is heir to the British throne, and negative stories about him are usually squashed or tempered, particularly if he continues to play the 'access' game with the media.

 

[aftershocks]

there have been things that they have said and done that have not done them a lot of favors or have been met with skepticism.

Please make a list. In my view, M&H have been doing a fairly good job of making courageous decisions based on thoughtful reflection. None of what they are doing has been done hastily or without a lot of thought and planning. Of course they aren't perfect. But I bet what you think they've said and done that 'hasn't done them a lot of favors,' is based on the twisted narratives published in the British tabloids and picked up in media outlets around the world.

None of us truly know what it's like to be part of the inner sanctum of the royal family. And frankly, after seeing what happened to Princess Margaret, Prince William of Gloucester, Diana PoW, and the Sussexes, I wouldn't want to experience that gilded cage too up-close and personal.

Uh, maybe a virtual tour of the palaces, and a tiara exhibit, and a royal fashion and wedding gown exhibit, and/or a guided stroll through Frogmore House, or a carriage ride through Windsor Great Park, and a chance to visit the Windsor Stables and meet the horses, would suffice for me. But to be part of that cold, decidedly out-of-touch family? No thank you.

I pray the Cambridge kids can actually grow up and avoid being adversely affected by the worst of the royal family's dysfunctions and messy conflicts, made worse by interference from overly invested staffers.

 

[starrynight]

And what do you mean "republican sentiments"?

Republican as in not a monarchy. If you’re a republican or a supporter of the republican movement in the commonwealth, it means you support the abolition of the monarchy as head of state to be replaced by an elected president etc . It’s got nothing to do with USA partisan politics.

Ironically being pro republican is a left leaning thing and being pro monarchy can often be a more right wing thing. I think that’s why this thread is interesting to me, because the thread isn’t following the usual political course. Not that that’s a bad thing. I tend to not like political sides having play books that tell everyone what to think.

Don't rewrite history. Edward abdicated to marry Wallis Simpson. He wasn't forced to abdicate, he chose to. It had nothing to do with his suitability to lead.

I’ve read stuff about Edward actually being a Nazi sympathiser and him supporting a surrender to the Nazis with him remaining a kind of puppet King of Britain.