ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

[allezfred]

Skating is the opposite of that. One skater on the ice, or two who are in a clear "bubble." We can leave hockey glass up. For years, people have argued that judges should sit at different points of the rink - great, now's our chance to try! We can quarantine skaters in hotels, maybe even skaters from the same country on a specific floor. The risk is manageable. This is so easy compared to other sports. I'm not sure why people are so defeatist about a skating season.

I don't think defeatist is the right word. If we were magically teleporting skaters from their hotels to the ice, then what you propose might be feasible. But they have to be actually allowed to travel to the country where the competition is being held, get from the airport to the hotel, to the rink and back again. They have to eat so you would have to stagger mealtimes three times a day. If there were skaters from 20 countries and they each were to be quarantined on a floor per nation that would mean block booking a hotel with at least 20 floors so they wouldn't come into contact with other competitors or coaches.

 

[Japanfan]

Skating is the opposite of that. One skater on the ice, or two who are in a clear "bubble." We can leave hockey glass up. For years, people have argued that judges should sit at different points of the rink - great, now's our chance to try! We can quarantine skaters in hotels, maybe even skaters from the same country on a specific floor. The risk is manageable. This is so easy compared to other sports. I'm not sure why people are so defeatist about a skating season.

Well, I do hope you are right about that.

 

[Miezekatze]

I don't think anybody here is completely defeatist about SOME KIND OF skating season, people just don' t see a normal skating season. I mean I'M from Germany and I think we're one of the countries who is currently opening up the fastest, but there is absolutely no sign now at the end of May ,that there's going to be any *normal *bigger cultural or sports events in the next months and the international skating season would theoretically start in September here.

Now I'm only a bit informed about the state of horseback riding competitions, not skating, but I'm sure many of the challenges that organisators face are the same:

Many smaller regional competitions are currently theoretically in the situation that they would be allowed to already hold (very small) horseback riding competitions again (of the not televised or live streamed sort).. Holding those events causes a lot of effort in preparation (this year probably even a lot more , cause you have to take care of all the Corona hygiene and distancing rules) and COSTS MONEY. Now there's 2 ways the organisators usually get the money for holding those competitions:
a) they have sponsors, mostly local businesses and companies. Now what the organisators say is that sponsors are withdrawing sponsorign because of Corona, because they are also economically struggling. (also I think it makes not much sense for a sponsor to sponsor events, when there are not going to spectators to see your advertising signs and no normal networking talks).
b) they make a little money by selling food and beverages: this income doesn't exist, because with Corona rules you're not allowed to have catering

Then you probably have the problem with your actual competitors, where a certain amount of people would stay away because they think competitions are no fun with masks and without the partying and socializing. And then you have a certain amout of people who would not come because they are afraid the hygiene and distancing rules are not going to be strict enough and lots of people are't going to comply properly with them. You can only "please" one of those groups, not both (and pleasing the first one would mean risking very high fines by not complying to regulations).

I'd guess most of those problems apply to sports like skating as well.

So very small regional competitions are possible theoretically, but practically economically difficult. The ones who have organized competitions are very rich riding clubs who have members who pay a very high yearly membership fee and therefor can organize events for those members only with that money.

Small international events like for example Nebelhorn Trophy also would have organizational efforts, costs and NO INCOME, because you can't sell tickets and you can't sell food/beverages, plus all those problem that allezfred pointed out that skaters would have to travel internationally to Oberstdorf. Already the transport to Oberstdorf would probably be a problem, because AFAIK usually skaters are transported in buses from the Munich airport, because it's so far out there. Who'd pay for all those extra costs if you need 3 or 4x the amount of buses than usually? Would every skater/judge be obliged to pay a 2hour taxi drive on his own or buy a train ticket for a very long train ride (which would ruin all quarantining ideas again anyway? What if the usual hotels can only take 60% of the guests and you can't use the usual hotels, but have to find a lot more, ...how are you going to get the skaters from the hotels outside Oberstdorf (afaik only some North Americans stayed inside Oberstdorf the last years) to the rink if you can't use regular bus transports normally,...there's so many hurdles that I can already think of.

 

[Bigbird]

Work on a viable vaccine or vaccines seem to be going well. GP Series may be dead in the water. But let the kids train. Things should be back to some semblance of normalcy by January next year. I am hopeful we'll have 4CC, EC and WC.

Since Mr Crump is into self doping we can definitely give him and his cronies the vaccine first.

Plus I want PC to come up with two new dances so this plot gives them more time. #uberlife.

 

[MsZem]

Some countries have already announced that they will reopen for tourism, at first via reciprocal arrangements with other countries (apparently we're getting the Seychelles, among others ). Many countries are allowing sports training for individuals, and in some cases even for group sports.

This is about the US, but the broader point is true: how countries - and people - experience this event varies greatly, and while we're learning more about best practices, there isn't really a one-size fits all approach.

America’s Patchwork Pandemic Is Fraying Even Further

The coronavirus is coursing through different parts of the U.S. in different ways, making the crisis harder to predict, control, or understand.

bit.ly

It's much too soon to say what things will be like in the fall, and perhaps some creativity will be required - but I hope we can at least have some sort of national and regional season in 2020-21.

 

[jlai]

Is anyone actually expecting to persuade Louis by arguing with him?

I seem to remember Louis was, or is, in data science?

Which means, he is unlikely to be persuaded by heated arguments. You are better off giving him a set of cleaned data and a trend line. Make sure the model you come up with works on both the training and the validation set.

 

[clairecloutier]

Nathan Chen talks about the current status of his skating/plans for next season (basically--it's hard to make any decisions right now):

Nathan Chen weighs unknown variables of next figure skating season

With so many unknown variables surrounding the upcoming figure skating season, will Nathan Chen stay in California or return to Yale?

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[Bellanca]

Nathan Chen talks about the current status of his skating/plans for next season (basically--it's hard to make any decisions right now):

Nathan Chen weighs unknown variables of next figure skating season

With so many unknown variables surrounding the upcoming figure skating season, will Nathan Chen stay in California or return to Yale?

olympics.nbcsports.com

Great interview. Great role model.

Nathan is handling everything on his plate with typical Chen-like wisdom and grace, considering where he sits competitively, at the top, not knowing how it will all shake out when everyone returns to competition. The great unknown, yet Nathan maintains his positive outlook. The situation is too fluid to move forward confidently. Still, I do hope that he will know soon enough where to hang his hat.

 

[DreamSkates]

Is anyone actually expecting to persuade Louis by arguing with him?

Maybe not, but let the truth be told over and over until those who are not listening possibly hear.

 

[Vagabond]

Maybe not, but let the truth be told over and over until those who are not listening possibly hear.

It sounds grest in theory, but it's more likely to make those who are listening tune out.

 

[tony]

The nightclub industry is going to be the last to return pretty much everywhere in the world. I'm not aware of anyone in the "open up" camp who thinks otherwise. I think you're absolutely right that this environment presents unique risks that would be very hard to control, though I'm open to ideas. With strict crowd control, bottle service at tables spaced far apart, etc., maybe it could be done and be a more premium experience while ensuring safety of the staff.

Skating is the opposite of that. One skater on the ice, or two who are in a clear "bubble." We can leave hockey glass up. For years, people have argued that judges should sit at different points of the rink - great, now's our chance to try! We can quarantine skaters in hotels, maybe even skaters from the same country on a specific floor. The risk is manageable. This is so easy compared to other sports. I'm not sure why people are so defeatist about a skating season.

Regarding the first point- I think you’d actually be surprised how many people are not thinking like this and actually want it ALL opened ASAP. Ohio, which was one of the first states to really shut it all down, started reopening and the bar next to my old employer in Columbus was all over national news the other night because the college kids packed in there as soon as it opened, standing in line for hours to get in and once in, the employees did nothing to make sure the capacity/distancing regulations were followed.

There are people in Miami and Fort Lauderdale having huge fits that bars and gyms and beaches are not open here yet, but they have opened almost everywhere else in the state, of course with limitations. I posted in another thread that a few weeks ago, one of the parks was opened here on South Beach for a weekend, granted people could follow simple rules set forward by the city- mask on, etc. 9 thousand citations were given out over the course of that weekend. You give a little, and people take it to level 10 immediately because they just don’t care. And I think that showed the government here that all hell was bound to break loose. There was also talk last month of opening gyms to let 10 people in at a time when the time was right. There are 3 whole gyms on this entire stretch of beach, and everyone here is all about the fitness lifestyle. All it is going to do is piss people off even more and claim they are being treated unfairly.

So, while places may have great ideas in order, I think most people can’t get past certain things being more difficult to control. It’s all or nothing for them. And if they get everything back that they’ve been bitching about, then they will find something else that hasn’t been opened yet and bitch about that as well.

In regards to the season, I don’t think anyone thinks it will be completely shut down. But there are more variables than just going to the rink and skating one or two skaters at a time and judges being far from each other. And MANY of the ISU officials and members who would be traveling internationally are high-risk solely because of their ages. When countries give answers about their plans closer to the time of events (as in the 10 weeks or 12 weeks out as they’ve suggested), then we will see. The NBA and MLB seasons aren’t even going yet and the difference here is that the teams COULD all travel together by bus or their planes and play in empty stadiums without a lot of trouble from going A to B. But they are still struggling to come up with a plan. If you want international skating events, that’s a lot of additional steps and no ISU plane transporting these people together.

 

[MacMadame]

Maybe not, but let the truth be told over and over until those who are not listening possibly hear.

There is no "truth" right now about this. There are so many things we still don't know about C19. It's also too soon to know which responses worked the best. And that's if we can even agree on what "best" is.

So what is really going on is people (on both sides) stating their own opinions over and over and over. Everywhere.

 

[MacMadame]

The NBA and MLB seasons aren’t even going yet and the difference here is that the teams COULD all travel together by bus or their planes and play in empty stadiums without a lot of trouble from going A to B. But they are still struggling to come up with a plan. If you want international skating events, that’s a lot of additional steps and no ISU plane transporting these people together.

Those sports also have it much easier because there is one league that controls everything operating in one country (or at most two). Unlike the ISU which has hundreds of member NGBs operating in hundreds of countries. AND the NBA and MLB have a ton of money so they can do things like rent out an entire hotel so that only their people are in it.

The ISU is dealing with people from all over the world having events all over the world. They could easily come up with a plan and then one of the countries involved ends up making laws that won't let them execute on that plan.

It's a tough problem. It's easier to just cancel everything. Of course that could kill the ISU financially and even kill the sport. But it is an easy solution.

I can come up with a lot of ideas for how to handle this. And other people have too right in this thread. But the biggest problem with all the ideas is:

All it takes is one asymptomatic individual with one false negative test to infect a large number of people.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Skating is the opposite of that. One skater on the ice, or two who are in a clear "bubble." We can leave hockey glass up. For years, people have argued that judges should sit at different points of the rink - great, now's our chance to try! We can quarantine skaters in hotels, maybe even skaters from the same country on a specific floor. The risk is manageable. This is so easy compared to other sports. I'm not sure why people are so defeatist about a skating season.

Having been looking at this from a risk perspective, I wouldn't be opening rinks in the US due the virus not being contained. For me some of the risks are:

• Masks are ineffective in a rink due to skaters constantly having to wipe their noses during practice
• Most skaters wear gloves that you can't just wash or clean. The virus stays on fabric for a long time. In the meantime skaters have touched barriers, seats, etc which spreads it around
• It has been shown that the someone running in the path of someone who has the virus can get it by the lingering particles in the air. That is how contagious this is.
• If the rink has hockey, then hockey players are generally not known for being the cleanest of creatures (just sit in a rink during practice and smell the aroma of leather - whew!!!). Hence another group that poses risks to others.

And they are just a few things off the top of my head.

 

[DreamSkates]

There is no "truth" right now about this. There are so many things we still don't know about C19. It's also too soon to know which responses worked the best. And that's if we can even agree on what "best" is.

So what is really going on is people (on both sides) stating their own opinions over and over and over. Everywhere.

Yes there are some truths about this v... as in the way it spreads to others. We are not totally in the dark.

 

[MacMadame]

I wouldn't be opening rinks in the US due the ***** not being contained.

It's contained in some parts of the country and not others. Why should rinks in a part of the country where it's contained stay closed because some place literally 100s or 1000s of miles away doesn't have it contained?

The ***** stays on fabric for a long time.

It has been shown that the someone running in the path of someone who has the ***** can get it by the lingering particles in the air. That is how contagious this is.

Neither of these is true.

1) The virus dies on fabric in a matter of hours. It's hard surfaces where it lingers for days.
2) It has not been shown that someone running by you can give you C19. In the entire world, there is only one documented case of transmission from an outside event. Outside is the safest place to be. And short contacts (i.e., running by someone or cycling by you) are the safest contacts.

 

[jlai]

Yes there are some truths about this v... as in the way it spreads to others. We are not totally in the dark.

Very little truths on this one. Maybe they did a study and see a trend,or maybe did an experiment and can say with 95 confidence.

 

[Aussie Willy]

It's contained in some parts of the country and not others. Why should rinks in a part of the country where it's contained stay closed because some place literally 100s or 1000s of miles away doesn't have it contained?



Neither of these is true.

1) The ***** dies on fabric in a matter of hours. It's hard surfaces where it lingers for days.
2) It has not been shown that someone running by you can give you C19. In the entire world, there is only one documented case of transmission from an outside event. Outside is the safest place to be. And short contacts (i.e., running by someone or cycling by you) are the safest contacts.

A matter of hours - if you are in a rink for a couple of hours then surely that would be enough to spread it around?
Running - I said path, not past. Can't remember where I saw it but they did show that if you were running behind someone with it then there is a chance you can catch it. I think it was on our ABC News here.

I am talking about risk assessments where you have to take into account every possibility. So I am talking about what you identify and weigh up the risks.

If I was in the US I would be on the side of caution regardless.

 

[MacMadame]

Running - I said path, not past. Can't remember where I saw it but they did show that if you were running behind someone with it then there is a chance you can catch it. I think it was on our ABC News here.

It wasn't a study. It was a simulation done by engineers and actually virologists said the non-peer reviewed paper was BS. One of them said that the paper made him boiling mad, in fact.

Everything I've read by virologists and epidemiologists says that outdoor transmission is extremely unlikely and it's the safest place to be as long as you keep moving.

And they also say it's highly unlikely you will get C19 from touching fabric. And not at all from eating food with the virus on it.

In terms of the rink, I would tell the skaters to treat their gloves like they would their masks. That is to say, assume the outside is contaminated and don't touch it or leave the gloves on services.

 

[overedge]

If a skater is wearing gloves, the gloves are going to touch everything the skater touches. Which could include the barriers at the edge of the rink, the gates in the barriers, the benches they sit on, the bags their skates are in, their skates, door handles, washroom fixtures, Kleenex boxes, etc. etc. etc. It's impossible for a skater to go into the rink, do their session, and leave the rink without touching anything at all during that time.

 

[Dobre]

Here's a thought: perhaps now most skaters might where gloves that can be washed or cleaned.

 

[MacMadame]

Here's a thought: perhaps now most skaters might where gloves that can be washed or cleaned.

I have always worn gloves while skating that can be washed and cleaned. Is this some new thing to wear gloves that can't? (I'm not even sure what that would entail. What would they be made of?)

 

[jlai]

I guess lacey gloves would be hard to clean

 

[Aussie Willy]

When those of us who mentioned gloves being a risk are talking about gloves, we are talking about wearing them during the session. Of course you can wash them when you get home.

 

[MacMadame]

When those of us who mentioned gloves being a risk are talking about gloves, we are talking about wearing them during the session. Of course you can wash them when you get home.

Oh okay.

I think skaters should just treat them like masks and latex gloves people wear in the grocery. (As I said before.)

 

[Marco]

As far as sporting goes, is there going to be a real push for skating to resume by the national federations or by the ISU?

I totally understand the push for mainstream sports to resume because even without audience they get broadcast rights and their stars / events get sponsors and so on. Skating is no where near as profitable and is probably not in most people's priority list.

 

[Miezekatze]

One of the young skaters from Oberstdorf posted spin training videos yesterday, the kids were all wearing masks during skating, so I'm sure it can be done, even if it's not optimal. Looked as if there were about 3-5 kids on the ice.

The rink in Oberstdorf has very high ceilings and I'd guess air circulation is good there. I doubt that with 3 to 5 skaters on teh ice there is a big risk of aerosols being in the air for a long time.

I Germany I think most professional athletes are already allowed to train indoors again too (just amateurs and recreational sports can't be done indoors mostly yet), only contact sports can't be trained with contact and in big groups. I think most professional group sports are limited to small groups of 4-5 people training with distance.

 

[care bear]

I feel really sorry for the children in Oberstdorf because they need more oxygen than normal during training.
So happy that I do only sports outdoor and can breathe freely.

 

[allezfred]

Unlike the ISU which has hundreds of member NGBs operating in hundreds of countries.

77 countries to be exact.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

They better not cancel Skate America! I'm overdue for a girls Vegas weekend.