ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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19,735
The hope for the JGP doesn't look good to me. There are so many entrants. The only thing that works in their favor is the fact that the audience is usually very small.
Now that JGP Canada is cancelled, I would say the JGP is dead in the water. Running a JGP with 5 events instead of 7 is very shaky, and I can easily foresee some of the others being cancelled too.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
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23,255
I'm pretty sure most of us were responding to the tone of your initial post. "THEY BETTER NOT CANCEL SKATE AMERICA" is massively different to expressing a hope that we get part of the season. It's very aggressive and and the girls' weekend comment only made it look even more self-centred.

Yes, October is five months away. The ***** is running rampant in the US with its own citizens fighting efforts to control it in the name of freedom. I see no chance of an international Skate America this year.
I didn't see the post as aggressive. Just as emotional. Nothing wrong with being attached to plan or an event, and being disappointed that it doesn't work out. Yes, it ignores the bigger picture. But most people still have such emotions, it's only human.
 

Bigbird

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1,308
I didn't see the post as aggressive. Just as emotional. Nothing wrong with being attached to plan or an event, and being disappointed that it doesn't work out. Yes, it ignores the bigger picture. But most people still have such emotions, it's only human.
All of this is surprising to no one. The kids will train to stay relevant. Why doesn't the ISU just maintain the Senior Bs only and somehow use local competition, let the kids have fun where they are and if possible postpone till next season. For all these athletes to travel freely they need a vaccine and it just takes time.#peopléoverprofits, #healthovervanity.
 

Vagabond

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15,903
Now that JGP Canada is cancelled, I would say the JGP is dead in the water. Running a JGP with 5 events instead of 7 is very shaky, and I can easily foresee some of the others being cancelled too.
tt isn't so shaky if the JGPF is canceled too, as it might be. Still, the prospects for any of the remaining events taking place are dim, especially the events in Japan and Uzbekistan, to which foreign competitors would almost certainly be traveling by air.
 

starrynight

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2,400
I suppose this calendar of events gives the athletes something to think about when they are training at home, getting back to the rink or sitting in Novogorsk etc etc.

The risk of just cancelling the JGP series outright is that it might prompt some young junior athletes to just end training early to focus on school for university. That's a whole lost income stream for the sport there. I think that losing money from ice time and coaching fees at grassroots level is a big concern if there aren't competitions.
 

HeManSkaterDad

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408
I've been holding off on posting on this thread, as I don't want to throw gas on the fire. I initially typed this first paragraph thinking I could respond to the below quote without inviting a flame war, but as I am proof-reading, I am not so sure:

I think that losing money from ice time and coaching fees at grassroots level is a big concern if there aren't competitions.
There is a concern, however it is not the 'sport' losing revenue concern I am hearing. I know of several high level skaters who are back to training or are about to resume and are hoping for an international season. However, the fear spreading thru them (accelerated by social media) is that the decision to cancel has already been made and the announcement is being delayed to protect the income stream of rinks and coaches at the expense of skaters and their families.

It may seem like a bit of paranoia or a conspiracy mindset. It is, however, finding a receptive audience in places where you might expect a significant outbreak, but the skaters do not even know of anyone who has tested positive. I hope it is just wild rumor and speculation, as if it were substantiated, I think it would open the door to questioning every statement from the ISU and Federations. Thus, I hope they will be very transparent about their decision process, but I don't recall them being very good at that.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,364
This isn't figure skating, but Philip Hersh tweeted the following and it is indicative of the complexity of the problem:



Philip Hersh

@olyphil

·
29m

ICYMI: Italian Winter Sports Federation (FISI) has asked @fisalpine to postpone alpine worlds in Cortina, Italy from Feb. 2021 to after @Beijing2022. FISI thinks there is too much financial risk to begin prep now only to have cancellation in Oct./Nov. FIS reply expected in July
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
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35,231
However, the fear spreading thru them (accelerated by social media) is that the decision to cancel has already been made and the announcement is being delayed to protect the income stream of rinks and coaches at the expense of skaters and their families.
My own experiences with being signed up for athletic events that are being canceled one by one and being involved in the decision-making for the event I am a Race Director for is that there is some truth to this but it's probably not 100% like what people are saying.

I've talked to Race Directors and most of them are not canceling their events outright even if they think there is no way they will happen. What they are doing is keeping them on the schedule until such time as they have to start spending money on them. Then they cancel them. Alternatively, the jurisdiction they are in makes a pronouncement, say no events with over X people until there is a vaccine or no international travel until a certain date (after the date of their event). So when that announcement is made, the Race Director cancels.

They are doing this for a number of reasons. Some of them are financial but also they don't want to limit their options. As an example, my race was first postponed. Until this week I was sure there was no way to do the event on the new date. But now they've opened up enough things that I am starting to think it will happen.

To the skaters, I would say: if it's not canceled, it's because the ISU still thinks there is a chance to have the event. Some people making the decisions are sure they will all be canceled but some are not.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
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2,400
However, the fear spreading thru them (accelerated by social media) is that the decision to cancel has already been made and the announcement is being delayed to protect the income stream of rinks and coaches at the expense of skaters and their families.
That makes sense.

All the ice time, coaching, costumes etc are very expensive - particularly right now. I can completely understand why people are concerned that they will be persuaded to continue to pay for training until the bitter end.

Some elite skaters sitting in Novogorsk might want there to be the illusion of a season for motivation... but I think the regular skaters paying from their own pockets might like some clarity.

I imagine the coaches will be like teachers in countries where they didn't know if exams were being cancelled i.e. we have to continue to work and presume the exams are happening.
 

Weve3

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3,050
I've been holding off on posting on this thread, as I don't want to throw gas on the fire. I initially typed this first paragraph thinking I could respond to the below quote without inviting a flame war, but as I am proof-reading, I am not so sure:



There is a concern, however it is not the 'sport' losing revenue concern I am hearing. I know of several high level skaters who are back to training or are about to resume and are hoping for an international season. However, the fear spreading thru them (accelerated by social media) is that the decision to cancel has already been made and the announcement is being delayed to protect the income stream of rinks and coaches at the expense of skaters and their families.

It may seem like a bit of paranoia or a conspiracy mindset. It is, however, finding a receptive audience in places where you might expect a significant outbreak, but the skaters do not even know of anyone who has tested positive. I hope it is just wild rumor and speculation, as if it were substantiated, I think it would open the door to questioning every statement from the ISU and Federations. Thus, I hope they will be very transparent about their decision process, but I don't recall them being very good at that.
Not at all. If you have information via a source or through the grapevine, you still know what you know. I appreciate your sharing. Thank you.

What you’ve posted is not surprising even if making the (social media) rounds, which are always suspect, especially re the ISU and federations — but the more information made available is to hold their feet to the fire because the skaters and their families do not need the additional stress.
 

Tony Wheeler

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7,397
Unless this is coming from the absolute top of the ISU (and I’m sure it’s not), then I’m going to guess there’s no substance behind any of it besides people trying to predict what’s going to happen and then saying ‘I told you so’. Or maybe some people have taken a page from FSU and believed that most things are a big conspiracy theory, especially when it pertains to the ISU. ;) I’ve heard several times now from my own connections within the ISU that the JGP and SGP and fall season were not going to be likely, but I also think that’s somewhat of common sense at this point.

Again, this goes back to the ISU having no control over what the world chooses to do. One day the cases are going up in the USA but certain states don’t care anymore and start opening. Who knows what will happen next week.

Here’s a good article put out a few days ago, highlighting where all of the major American sports stand as of now:

 
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Dobre

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7,484
Mom & I won't be going to Skate America:cry:. And we probably would have gone in "normal" life so that is a bit disappointing. (We don't anticipate risking plane travel or spending days in an arena until there is a vaccine). If by some miracle the event is held, I will be glued to SportsGold, providing it covers the event, and then probably watch the whole event a second time on TV.

Right now, I am going to treat this season's skating events the way I do figure skaters who skip a major ISU championship. I will assume the events are "retired" until proven otherwise and will count myself fortunate for any and all situations to the contrary.

I am glad to hear that a variety of skaters are having the chance to get back on the ice. When there is something you love so much that you have dedicated as much to it as elite athletes, then just having the chance to get back to it is a huge step. I hope the return to training goes well for the athletes that are beginning this process, and I hope this will help pave the way for more skaters in the future. Safe wishes for everyone.
 

Miezekatze

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15,004
I also
My own experiences with being signed up for athletic events that are being canceled one by one and being involved in the decision-making for the event I am a Race Director for is that there is some truth to this but it's probably not 100% like what people are saying.

I've talked to Race Directors and most of them are not canceling their events outright even if they think there is no way they will happen. What they are doing is keeping them on the schedule until such time as they have to start spending money on them. Then they cancel them. Alternatively, the jurisdiction they are in makes a pronouncement, say no events with over X people until there is a vaccine or no international travel until a certain date (after the date of their event). So when that announcement is made, the Race Director cancels.

They are doing this for a number of reasons. Some of them are financial but also they don't want to limit their options. As an example, my race was first postponed. Until this week I was sure there was no way to do the event on the new date. But now they've opened up enough things that I am starting to think it will happen.

To the skaters, I would say: if it's not canceled, it's because the ISU still thinks there is a chance to have the event. Some people making the decisions are sure they will all be canceled but some are not.
Yeah, I think that's the case for all events.

And I don't see how the ISU could even have an overview over which international events are possible, it is completely out of their control, since the situation in the member countries are so different and so dynamic.

I mean looking at Germany only, it is completely unclear what will be allowed when and the decisions are being taken very dynamically, sometimes it even feels spontanously. And when it comes to events the current plans only go till the end of August and their all unter "we plan to allow XY until end of July and XY until end of August, but of course only if things go well, otherwise we might have to backtrack and of course if regionally the infections rise, then the regions will have to have strict restrictions again". And there's not even rules for the whole country, there is 16 states, that all get to make their own rules on how to lift restrictions. And in terms of events for example some states plan to allow something like (social distancing) events with 500 people until the end of August, others are ambitious and want to allow (social distancing) events with 1000 people until the end of August.

Now realistically something like Nebelhorn Trophy in September is EXTREMELY unlikely, since it's nearly June and we haven't gotten to anything like sports competitions with spectators or international competitors, but right now nobody from the regional or Germany wide government is actually saying that it's definitely impossible.

Like from June 1st in Bavaria events with 50 or 100 people will be allowed again. But if you want to hold one you have to talk to your local town authority on HOW to hold this event and you have to come up with a social distancing/hygiene concept and then they have to approve it and if they do you might get to hold your events, but since there are no rules for September yet, nobody could do this for an event in September now, so I think it's sort of completley impossible to plan anything. Of course now due to that they could just cancel everything, because of the uncertainty of planning, but then what if things develop very well...I think that's the reason they wait until the planning goes into the phase where it would cost money.

As for having some sort of international season, I think if one wanted to have that before 2021, I think the ISU would have to rethink the competitions and go for something more "regional international". Like I absolutely can't imaging that's it realistic to have Europeans fly to North America or North Americans to Europe or Asia in fall, ...but I think it would not be so unrealistic to have for example Italians, French, German, Czech, ... skaters travel to France...that might be possible even for tourists. So you'd have to have North American events for only skaters that train in North America, Asian Events for skaters in Asia and European events for skaters in Europe (yeah that sort of means Australians would only have like nationals probably). It would be far from perfect but maybe have 2 or 3 competitions on every continent in fall, then Nationals for all countries and then maybe something like Worlds at the end of the season, seems to only thing that might be possible IMO.
 
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missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
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3,364
Dobre's post in the Grand Prix thread reminded me of this thread and got me wondering what might happen with USFS's Champs Camp, held last year in late August.

On the one hand, many of the skaters train in the US, and presumably those who train in Canada could return to the states early enough to make it to the event. Audiences aren't an issue.

On the other hand, will the skaters have had enough training time to merit their programs being viewed as competitive vehicles?

I assume it's too early for any decision to have been made. But if anyone is aware of any discussion about it, I certainly would be interested.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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61,219
The annual Glacier Falls Summer Classic club competition in southern California (originally scheduled for July 30-Aug. 2) now has new dates -- August 21-23, 2020 -- and the planned venue is the comp's original rink, Anaheim Ice (comp. was held at Great Park Ice in Irvine for the first time last year). I have yet to find a link to an updated competition announcement online but am keeping my eyes open for it.

ETA:

Skating Club of New York's website recently posted an update (dated June 9th on their FB page) about their Middle Atlantics club competition, scheduled for September 10-13, 2020 in NYC: http://www.thescny.org/
 
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Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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61,219
I posted these 2 items in the Grand Prix assignments speculation thread yesterday...

A decision re. JGP #3 in Budapest is supposed to be made by June 29, 2020 at the latest. (I've checked the Hungarian federation's website but found nothing about it yet.)

Announcement for Nebelhorn Trophy (Sept. 23rd – 26th, 2020) is online: https://www.eislauf-union.de/files/Events/NT/NT2020_Announcement.pdf
The preliminary entries must reach the Organizer by latest August 3rd, 2020 by entering the information through ORS.

Please note: The Organizing Committee reserves the right to cancel the “Nebelhorn-Trophy 2020” if due to the ******** (*********-19) the decision or recommendation of the national/local Government will not agree to conduct such an event or if the travel restrictions into and out of Germany will block the Teams for an unexpected period of time.


Skating Finland tweeted on May 27: https://twitter.com/SkatingFinland/status/1265621216855052290
Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2020 will take place in Espoo, @MetroAreena on October 9-11. Stay tuned!
There's no Announcement on the event website yet.
 
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Lacey

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11,196
Welcome back @Sylvia, I totally get why you were gone for a while, but you should know that you were missed. It's good to have your sound organization back.

Sylvia or others, I totally get skating events being scheduled or rescheduled, everyone wants to get on with life and skating life. But I worry about the logistics of it all, for instance, if and how there will be quarantines before and after events, if there are skaters/countries who cannot afford to stay at hotels, how they will eat--will they go out or have takeout, and yes if older coaches should stay home to avoid possible exposure, seriously how would one draw a line?

And I worry about "chain" events, like the GPs, where the first one or a few might get off the ground and then some might be cancelled later, if the world goes into ******** Part Two, with no way to reschedule. Not to be Debbie Downer, but results from an incomplete weeks/months-long event probably should not be counted towards any world rankings if not all can be included. And is it fair if some skaters get a warm-up comp and others of same ranking do not?

Am I just a worry wart or am I realistic?
 

TallyT

Active Member
Messages
61
So you'd have to have North American events for only skaters that train in North America...
Don't hold your breath on Canada letting down the border with the US, or Europe generally with Russia, in the foreseeable future given the numbers. I think it'll be split further.
 

Orm Irian

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Messages
706
Announcement for Nebelhorn Trophy (Sept. 23rd – 26th, 2020) is online: https://www.eislauf-union.de/files/Events/NT/NT2020_Announcement.pdf

...

Skating Finland tweeted on May 27: https://twitter.com/SkatingFinland/status/1265621216855052290
If things continue in their current shape I wouldn't be surprised to see both of these go ahead, if without audiences and with reduced fields compared to a normal season. Germany and Finland are doing quite well at the moment. If a second wave starts up in Europe all bets are off though.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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23,130
If things continue in their current shape I wouldn't be surprised to see both of these go ahead, if without audiences and with reduced fields compared to a normal season. Germany and Finland are doing quite well at the moment. If a second wave starts up in Europe all bets are off though.
They could just run them at a regular rink instead of hiring a stadium if there are no audiences.
 

Orm Irian

Well-Known Member
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706
Well Nebelhorn is always at a regular rink anyway.
Yup. Eissportzentrum Oberstdorf - it looks like this, with built-in seating.

(I'm ridiculously fond of that webcam. It only takes a still shot every twenty minutes or so but sometimes you get to see a tiny teeny figure in the middle of a jump or a spin, which is all kinds of cute.)

Not sure about Finlandia though - is the rink at Espoo the same kind or is it a stadium?
 

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