ISU floats possible changes to judging system

[aftershocks]

... Decreasing BV for difficult jumps is discouraging. If one jumping pass takes less than 30 seconds, it means the ISU is just taking time away from men's choreography and spins.

In general your list of ideas seems to make sense. But please explain more clearly what you mean re the above?

 

[tony]

In general your list of ideas seems to make sense. But please explain more clearly what you mean re the above?

I think it's fairly straightforward. One jumping element is being removed from mens' free skates. That one element does not take 30 seconds to complete, which is the amount of time being dropped for the men and pairs. So effectively they are also taking away from time for choreography.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Ah okay, thanks @Tony Wheeler. It wasn't clear to me that @Marco was speaking of the reduction in program time coupled with the removal of one jumping pass. Now I get it.

The juxtaposition of @Marco saying 'decrease in BV for difficult jumps is discouraging' and then mentioning jumping pass issue was a bit unclear. Personally, I think the disparity in quad base value has been a problem since it was first implemented in an over-reaction to the 2010 men's event at the Olympics. For years prior to 2010, they needed to increase quad BV! That was obvious, but the ISU ignored numerous pleas from skating community, and then they over-reacted with a huge hammer after a public scandal. The current values for triples are NOT exactly the problem.

I agree that the reduction of program time coupled with removal of one jumping pass is irrational and ill-conceived. Of course there's already too much tech crammed into programs. But right, removing one jumping pass that's split seconds, while reducing program length by 30 seconds is idiotic. There's already not enough time for the skaters to concentrate enough on creative expression. Remove some of tech requirements, but do NOT decrease program length. Find other ways to eliminate length of competitions. Allow skaters more leeway with the overall construction and content of their free programs.

 

[Marco]

I think it's fairly straightforward. One jumping element is being removed from mens' free skates. That one element does not take 30 seconds to complete, which is the amount of time being dropped for the men and pairs. So effectively they are also taking away from time for choreography.

A men's short is 2:50 max and a men's free skate is currently 4:40 max. That means they allow 110 seconds for 5 jumping passes and one choreo sequence. Now they cut one jumping pass and 30 seconds?!

If men's free skate will be reduced to 4 minutes each, then I suggest men (and ladies) to reduce to 6 jumping passes, since there are only 6 recognized types of jumps anyways. (the combination / sequence factor will then becomes even more important)

 

[skatingguy]

So if they do drop one jump from the men's free skate, none of the skaters are going to drop a quad. Most will be dropping a solo triple jump or a double axel - so the effect on the technical score will be 4 or 5 points.

 

[platniumangel]

All these potential changes make me nervous!

 

[kwanatic]

How do we define "accuracy" when it comes to evaluating qualitative aspects of performance?

How should judges digitize these analog qualities? How can evaluators tell whether the judges have done so appropriately?

Is there room for honest disagreement?

In a qualitative sport I suppose it's a bit pointless to use the word "accuracy" as it usually relates to something that can be quantitatively measured. Maybe the phrase I should have used was "thoroughly evaluate" the criteria that comprise that score. I so often see skaters who are putting it out there on the ice but they get back nothing in terms of the score, whereas a more established/popular skater is able to do less and still receive a bigger score.

The scoring has gotten a bit out of control over the past two seasons. I don't think the system if fundamentally flawed, though there are restrictions/limitations that need to happen in certain areas. More importantly, the judges and the way the sport is judged is what needs the overhaul IMO.

 

[Coco]

I would just like to point out that at Lombardia, Bradie Tennell had a 17.94 advantage over Kostner in base value, and a 17.78 advantage over her for TES, yet still lost overall by 1.66 points.

Sooooo whatever solution they come up with for the men, they may want to think twice about applying it to the ladies.

 

[Frida80]

I would just like to point out that at Lombardia, Bradie Tennell had a 17.94 advantage over Kostner in base value, and a 17.78 advantage over her for TES, yet still lost overall by 1.66 points.

Sooooo whatever solution they come up with for the men, they may want to think twice about applying it to the ladies.

What ever changes they make in men's will mirror the PCS problems in ladies. If they decide to balance PCS scores, it could backfire.

 

[Seerek]

Thanks (not) Phil Hersh for your unflattering comments concerning the women competing at Finlandia. If the ISU Challenger Series is not for you, then don't watch.

 

[alchemy void]

Here's Phil's tweet:

4 hours of women SPs at #FinTrophy17 - many beyond bad. Who would watch this stuff live? At least via TV or stream u can do other things

What an ass. It's the Challenger Series, dude. Not Worlds or even the Grand Prix.

Also insulting to those who actually choose to watch this live in the arena or via streaming.

 

[overedge]

Every skater, including the elite skaters that Phil drools over, started out as a new skater at a lower-level competition. And every skater has a bad program at some point. It's part of the process of learning and developing as a competitor. Phil doesn't have to love everybody at every competition, but in this case he should STFU.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Well, at least we know where St. Peter should send him.