Increasingly likely “Russia” will be banned from Pyeongchang

[caseyedwards]

I don't know how they plan for this to impact team events in general. I thought the athletes who did not compete under a national flag in the summer Olympics competed in individual events. There is an ISU provision that allows the ISU to appoint athletes, but Olympics are managed by NOC's.

Neutral was a totally different system at the IAAF championships than refugee or individual was at the Olympics. Neutral was about recognizing the country but disallowing its name. Just not enough runners were cleared to make a relay team.

 

[Bulletsdad]

The IOC can't touch that, thankfully. Still, it shouldn't take the Olympics away from the Russian skaters or their federation.

I was being facetious!

 

[BittyBug]

Also, regarding Americans and doping, Congress has done full on investigations into baseball when that whole doping controversy happened and there have been backlash against people like Michael Phelps and others who many people felt betrayed them when they were caught doping and lying about it and received incredible amounts of support.

Excuse me? Phelps has never been caught doping, unless you're counting the time he appeared to be caught on camera taking a big inhale from a giant bong. I certainly wouldn't count that as doping, since anyone who has ever smoked pot will tell you that it most definitely does not enhance performance of anything other than eating and acting silly.

 

[VGThuy]

Excuse me? Phelps has never been caught doping, unless you're counting the time he appeared to be caught on camera taking a big inhale from a giant bong. I certainly wouldn't count that as doping, since anyone who has ever smoked pot will tell you that it most definitely does not enhance performance of anything other than eating and acting silly.

I meant Lance Armstrong, not Phelps. That was a brain fart and multitasking. I edited it.

 

[bardtoob]

Of course it's a huge part of state propaganda, duh!

That makes sense. I don't normally think in terms of "propaganda" but it does seem highly relevant to recognize and acknowledge it.

 

[bardtoob]

I certainly wouldn't count that as doping, since anyone who has ever smoked pot will tell you that it most definitely does not enhance performance of anything other than eating and acting silly.

But, but, dude. No really. But seriously, dude ...

 

[IceAlisa]

That makes sense. I don't normally think in terms of "propaganda" but it does seem highly relevant to recognize and acknowledge it.

I always think in terms of propaganda, force of habit.

 

[SmallFairy]

Yes, as someone else pointed out, when the East German doping program came into daylight for real, East Germany did no longer exist. Hard to ban a country that doesn't exist.

In OG Barcelona in 1992, when the Soviet Union had fell apart and the athletes competed under the Olympic flag as the Unified team, did they compete as a team in any discipline, f.i. did they have a soccer team? They sure competed as team in the Gymnastics event and were treated like Soviet Union, with a team of gymnasts where I believe only one of them was Russian (Grudneva). Bogu is Belrussian, Lysenko and Gutsu Ukrainian, Chuso and Galieva from Uzbekistan, but in retrospect it's said that "Russian won the team gold in Barcelona"? Or is it just me reading the wrong sources (I know it's not the same situation, doping vs a country falling apart, but still it came to mind.)

 

[caseyedwards]

Yes, as someone else pointed out, when the East German doping program came into daylight for real, East Germany did no longer exist. Hard to ban a country that doesn't exist.

In OG Barcelona in 1992, when the Soviet Union had fell apart and the athletes competed under the Olympic flag as the Unified team, did they compete as a team in any discipline, f.i. did they have a soccer team? They sure competed as team in the Gymnastics event and were treated like Soviet Union, with a team of gymnasts where I believe only one of them was Russian (Grudneva). Bogu is Belrussian, Lysenko and Gutsu Ukrainian, Chuso and Galieva from Uzbekistan, but in retrospect it's said that "Russian won the team gold in Barcelona"? Or is it just me reading the wrong sources (I know it's not the same situation, doping vs a country falling apart, but still it came to mind.)

People know all about all East Germans doping now but all their wins are still in the books! Why aren’t they all erased? Why erase Russia now but keep East Germany in?

Former Soviet Union teams competed in field hockey and volleyball and others.

Soviet Union was always called Russia by some people! In 1992 Winter Olympics former Soviet Union won hockey

In gymnastics In mens Belarus new anthem played for scherbo

 

[SmallFairy]

People know all about all East Germans doping now but all their wins are still in the books! Why aren’t they all erased? Why erase Russia now but keep East Germany in?

Former Soviet Union teams competed in field hockey and volleyball and others.

Soviet Union was always called Russia by some people! In 1992 Winter Olympics former Soviet Union won hockey

In gymnastics In mens Belarus new anthem played for scherbo

That's great! And in my head Petrenko always won for Ukraine in Albertville.

 

[Braulio]

Yes, as someone else pointed out, when the East German doping program came into daylight for real, East Germany did no longer exist. Hard to ban a country that doesn't exist.

In OG Barcelona in 1992, when the Soviet Union had fell apart and the athletes competed under the Olympic flag as the Unified team, did they compete as a team in any discipline, f.i. did they have a soccer team?

Yes the Unified Team competed in many team sports like Handball, Volleyball, Basketball and won olympic medals in Barcelona

 

[bardtoob]

An meaning derived from former Soviet States competing as the Unified Team does not apply here because those athletes were citizens of a variety of Soviet Republics that were a subset of the Soviet Union.

These athletes are all citizens of one country, one former Soviet Republic, Russia.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Evgenia Medvedeva faces the IOC.

 

[TAHbKA]

Mean while in the Russian TVshows Rodchenkov is shown as a complete nut case (he frankly sounds like one). On one hand they do not claim the Russian athletes were clean, on the other - Rodchenkov is not quite a figure on whom the whole process should depend.

Oh, and @caseyedwards , by saying `no athletes living in the closed cities' you are basically saying `kids who live in the middle of nowhere whose parents chose an obscure profession - don't you dare doing sports and even more so - don't you dare being good at what you do!'. Just as smart as about everything else you write.

 

[caseyedwards]

Mean while in the Russian TVshows Rodchenkov is shown as a complete nut case (he frankly sounds like one). On one hand they do not claim the Russian athletes were clean, on the other - Rodchenkov is not quite a figure on whom the whole process should depend.

Oh, and @caseyedwards , by saying `no athletes living in the closed cities' you are basically saying `kids who live in the middle of nowhere whose parents chose an obscure profession - don't you dare doing sports and even more so - don't you dare being good at what you do!'. Just as smart as about everything else you write.

The present system where closed cities provide special permits for anti doping officials isn’t working. The anti doping people say it blocks them or takes too much time or they guards tell the athletes doping officials are coming. It’s not working out. If someone gets to the Olympics they just have to move out of the closed city.

 

[TAHbKA]

Sure, sure, honey. They will do exactly as you say, darling.
Does it sound as idiotic to you as it does well, in real? People have to move to a different city because the anti doping people don't feel like wasting too much time? Aka `oy vey, my job takes me too much time! Gewalt!'

 

[Mafke]

People have to move to a different city because the anti doping people don't feel like wasting too much time?'

No one hates the anti-doping power trippers more than I do, but athletes have to move to different cities in order to compete all the time. What's also very weird and backward is the concept of 'closed cities' .... very Soviet.

Full disclosure: I've come to loathe the olympics and anything that hurts and/or destroys them is great. They've done terrible damage to figure skating which needs to learn how to cultivate and keep a fan base on its own beyond the cheap and vulgar and outdated spectacle that is the modern olympic movement.

 

[TAHbKA]

No one hates the anti-doping power trippers more than I do, but athletes have to move to different cities in order to compete all the time.

To compete - yes. To live- not so much. And, AFAIK, the athletes who live in the closed cities are the obscure juniors. I can't recall any Olympics caliber athelte living in one of those cities.

What's also very weird and backward is the concept of 'closed cities' .... very Soviet.

Which is none of yours, mine or doping agents business. This is the way the things are in Russia, this is the way they live and the doping agents should deal with that.

 

[reut]

Was this already posted here?
https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...l-not-boycott-pyeongchang-2018-kremlin-claims

That, in turn, has led to fears that Russian President Vladimir Putin will retaliate by refusing to let other athletes from his country compete.
Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov told a press briefing in Moscow today that it is not something currently under consideration.
"No, it is not under consideration," he said, according to Russia's official state news agency TASS

Putin is due to make a major televised nationwide address in Russia on Wednesday (December 6) about volunteerism where he is expected to address the matter of the country's participation at Pyeongchang 2018.

The IOC have, insidethegames understands, already contacted its official uniform supplier Nike to design kit for Russian athletes to wear as neutral athletes.

 

[Carolla5501]

People know all about all East Germans doping now but all their wins are still in the books! Why aren’t they all erased? Why erase Russia now but keep East Germany in?

Former Soviet Union teams competed in field hockey and volleyball and others.

Soviet Union was always called Russia by some people! In 1992 Winter Olympics former Soviet Union won hockey

In gymnastics In mens Belarus new anthem played for scherbo

The problem is that those athletes didn't fail a drug test

Russian athletes did.

But facts don't seem to be your strong point LOL!

 

[clairecloutier]

Opinion piece/open letter from Deidra Dionne, former Canadian Olympic aerials skiier.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/why-russia-should-be-banned-from-olympics-1.4431400

She argues that Russia should be banned outright. She speaks of the heartbreak/disappointment/financial losses of Canadian athletes who didn't make it onto Olympic podiums--only to later see Russian medalists ahead of them disqualified, and their own results upgraded. Receiving a "late" medal years later doesn't make up for the loss of a medal at the actual Games, says Dionne.

 

[reut]

Russian athletes did.
But facts don't seem to be your strong point LOL!

If I understand it right it wasn't proved that Russian athletes did. There is a list from the whistleblower and some (a lot of?) other circumstantial evidences, but actually it's not that their samples were re-checked and the athletes were found guilty following that check (because allegedly it might be even not theirs because the samples were switched and changed in bottles which were tempered). All those things together were decided to be enough to ban them, but the proof will be presented today (from the link above: "Both Oswald and Schmid are due to present their findings to the IOC Executive Board at 1.30 pm"). Athletes will also appeal afterwards to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (which in case of cast-iron proof shouldn't be possible?).

 

[Sylvia]

Was this already posted here?
https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...l-not-boycott-pyeongchang-2018-kremlin-claims

Yes, thanks @reut - link was posted/discussed here yesterday: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/increasingly-likely-“russia”-will-be-banned-from-pyeongchang.102317/page-15#post-5203596

ETA:

https://twitter.com/RachelAxon/status/938027890171461632

Thomas Bach received the Schmid report today, and executive board will get it this afternoon. EB will get updates from Oswald & Schmid commissions, and Russian delegation will get report and make statement to EB. Deliberation and then decision.
The Russian delegation will be the first to know the IOC's decision.

 

[Seerek]

Opinion piece/open letter from Deidra Dionne, former Canadian Olympic aerials skiier.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/why-russia-should-be-banned-from-olympics-1.4431400

She argues that Russia should be banned outright. She speaks of the heartbreak/disappointment/financial losses of Canadian athletes who didn't make it onto Olympic podiums--only to later see Russian medalists ahead of them disqualified, and their own results upgraded. Receiving a "late" medal years later doesn't make up for the loss of a medal at the actual Games, says Dionne.

The Christine Girard weightlifting case is the one brought up most in Canadian media as she has been the sole Canadian recipient of a medal upgrade or retroactive medal to this point (summer or winter). Interestingly, most of the disqualified athletes who finished ahead of Girard at the 2008/2012 Olympics were in fact representing Kazakhstan (and as discussed prior, Kazakhstan was 1 of the 9 countries barred from this past week's World Weightlifting Championships).

 

[Habs]

The Christine Girard weightlifting case is the one brought up most in Canadian media as she has been the sole Canadian recipient of a medal upgrade or retroactive medal to this point (summer or winter).

Beckie Scott was upgraded to gold in cross-country skiing in 2002 (she originally won bronze) after the two skiiers ahead of her, both Russians, IIRC, were disqualified for doping.

 

[Seerek]

Yes, you're definitely right (re: Beckie Scott).
I was referencing more with the recent wave of disqualifications (from Beijing 2008 onwards)

 

[PRlady]

Watching CNN International. A Russian official told their correspondent that he thinks the chances of a total ban is 80%.

 

[Habs]

I feel anxious about this. There is no good outcome - there are no winners in this situation, regardless of what happens.

 

[skatingguy]

Interesting that Cuba is the country that has gained the most medals at the 2008 & 2012 Summer Olympics as a result of disqualifications - they've gained six medals to date.

 

[Mafke]

Which is none of yours, mine or doping agents business. This is the way the things are in Russia, this is the way they live and the doping agents should deal with that.

No one is forcing them to compete. And your justification is not a justification - it's a hairsbreath from saying that in they dope in Russia and that's the way it is and doping agents should deal with that.

My prediction: If living in a 'closed city' is accepted giving athletes plenty of warning before random tests then there will be an escalation of athletes living in closed cities.