If You Could Make Just One Rule Change

[alchemy void]

I'd love to see shorter and faster step sequences (that actually serve to interpret the music).

Totally agree. The step sequences are the one thing about IJS I don't like; there has to be some sort of balance between the slow meandering time-hogging sequences we have now and the nothing sequences we saw in 6.0.

Don't laugh, but this is what comes to mind as a successful, well-done IJS footwork sequence (ironically enough, from a skater with poor basics).

https://youtu.be/y3DKugDuZns?t=204

I'm sure there are better examples out there from this era of IJS, but I go with what I know.

I like that the footwork actually goes in a straight line, it's done in under 20 seconds, there are no pauses, it's musical, yet still difficult and demonstrates an ability to do some intricate footwork and MITF

Is anyone familar with the COP footwork requirements circa 2006 and how they differ from today? I'd like to see something like this get rewarded, versus what the requirements are demanding today.

Would it help for step sequences to have two possible bullet points related to the music? One something like "Timing matches the rhythm of the music" and another something like "Element reflects the concept/character of the program"? That way skaters who can do both can be rewarded twice, and those who only do one or the other get half the reward.

I like this, but I think it's way too ambiguous. I'm thinking something like: completed in under 20 seconds, one straight line, speed maintained throughout, no stopping, musicality, and then specifics regarding content.

 

[gkelly]

I'm thinking something like: completed in under 20 seconds, one straight line, speed maintained throughout, no stopping, musicality, and then specifics regarding content.

The problem with the "one straight line" requirement is that it encourages shallow edges and moves intentionally done on flats. It also doesn't leave enough room to fit in as many clear edges and turns for skaters who get good ice coverage with each stroke even while executing difficult content.

If you think a clear pattern is important, then how about requiring a recognizable serpentine pattern "progressing in two bold curves from one end of the ice to the other"?

If you don't think requiring deep edges and clean turns is important in the step sequence, where would you require or reward them? Bring back figures?

Or do you think that skating skills should not be a big part of what is judged in a figure skating competition?

 

[MarieM]

No more spins in ice dance. They've got nothing to do in that discipline, let's get RID OF THEM.

 

[Aceon6]

No more spins in ice dance. They've got nothing to do in that discipline, let's get RID OF THEM.

Yup. Keep it moving. No more than 5 seconds in a single place on the ice.

 

[clairecloutier]

I like dance spins. I agree they're not a dance-specific move. But I always enjoy them, plus the dancers usually do them very well. And they add an element of variety to the programs.

 

[MarieM]

Still it's not dance. It's pure bullsh*te.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I'm with Claircloutier on this one. The dance spin is one element where it's easier to tell if the skaters goofed it up (cough Chock and Bates cough) and provides a comparison among the teams. Plus done well they're interesting. I say keep them.

 

[alchemy void]

If you don't think requiring deep edges and clean turns is important in the step sequence, where would you require or reward them? Bring back figures?

Oh god no.

But is it not possible to demonstrate deep edges and clean turns in a step sequence that's less than 30 seconds long and crawls and meanders all over the place? I just think there's way too much *junk* in the current footwork sequences. There has to be a better balance.

A straightline sequence doesn't have to quite as linear or as utterly edgeless as Sokolova's above, but my point was, it kept moving and actually represented the music.

The thing is-- so many current step sequences are boring to watch. Don't get me wrong, the same was true during 6.0, but the difference is those nothing footwork sequences took 8 seconds, and the current level 4 footwork takes up 30 seconds.

Or I don't know, how about something like keep the current bloated footwork sequences in the SP and make the LP footwork about speed, ice coverage, demonstrating a well-defined pattern/start and finish, and musicality? 15 seconds maximum. The referee times it, give them something else to do. It would allow the LP to breathe a little bit more as well.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

The problem with the "one straight line" requirement is that it encourages shallow edges and moves intentionally done on flats. It also doesn't leave enough room to fit in as many clear edges and turns for skaters who get good ice coverage with each stroke even while executing difficult content.

If you've ever done a Maltese Cross figure pattern (it is... hard), you know that it's not about getting on a particularly deep edge to maintain balance and precision. If anything, it's about fine motor control, body alignment, and strong blade awareness to make the direction changes required in the pattern.

My point is that edgework isn't just about being on a deep edge all the time; I would argue that good skating skills also means having a strong sense blade awareness from being able to shift between these different kinds edge movements.

 

[gkelly]

Is anyone familar with the COP footwork requirements circa 2006 and how they differ from today?

Over the years I have saved various ISU documents, but not every document every year (or if I did, I have since deleted them).

I have found the following:

ISU Communication No. 1263 (I believe issued in summer 2004)
Step Sequences

Definition of Turns and Steps

Basic: Turns - Three turns, Mohawks
Steps - progressives, chasses
Variety: Turns - must include three different methods of turning eg: (three turns, twizzles, brackets)
Steps - must include three different steps eg: (progressives, toe steps, chasses etc)
Complex: Turns - must include more than three different turns eg: (brackets, counters, rockers, twizzels, choctaws,)
Steps - must include three different steps egrunning steps, progressives, toe steps, chasses etc) used in multiple directions.

Step Sequence Element includes the following feature:
Mainly using Basic turns and steps
Element includes three of the following features:
Mainly using Variety of turns and steps
3 changes of direction
Change of speed during step sequence
Modest upper body movement during steps
Element includes four of the following features:
Mainly use of Complex turns and steps
4 or more changes of direction
Quick changes of speed during step sequence
Full use of upper body movement during steps
Quick changes from steps to turns

Also, in ISU Communication No. 1284 (which seems to be changes for the 2007 season):

The first feature in Level Two (“Mainly using Variety of turns and steps”) and in Level Three (“Mainly using Complex turns and steps”) is considered compulsory for these Levels.

 

[Areski]

And pairs.

My interest in these two disciplines has dwindled since that change That + lots of retirements in this post-Olympic season. I feel like 4:30~ was perfect (nex to choreographic reasons) for Men as it tested their stamina to a comparable degree as in Ladies competition (Men have greater lung capacity and more powerful muscles in general); there's a reason why female cross-country skiiers cover a distance of 30 kilometres and Men 50 kilometres) as far as winter sports go.
It just feels bit off ... I just can't grow accustomed.

It also used to render these two disciplines bit more distinct & unique. I do miss spirals in Ladies' competition too when I think about it.
I don't find these past differences ''sexist'' or whatever, just telling the truth.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

My rule change would be that with music selection, song choices would be first-come, first served—and no one else would be permitted to use it for the duration of the season. Perhaps for the more popular pieces (i.e. Carmen, POTO, etc), there is a lottery by discipline to determine who gets "skating rights" to it for the season.

Don't ask me how this would get implemented. I just know that it would save us from hearing multiple skaters use the same songs at any given competition, and potentially encourage people to expand their musical vocabulary.

 

[happycamper2554]

Get rid of the sbs spins in the short for the pairs. Go back to the pair spin or get rid of the spin idc. Its not fun to watch everyone out of sync. Also make the required death spiral back inside. You should get to decide if you want to take the risk of doing the outside. Basically I'm not into required struggling. You should get to decide how hard you want to make things.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Get rid of the sbs spins in the short for the pairs.

CoP has made the SBS spins an eyesoar... lets try and fit in 8 different positions in 15 seconds...bleh..

how bout we just get rid of CoP.

I miss the 9.9, 9.7, 10, 10, 10, 9.4 days. lol

 

[bladesofgorey]

Another vote for enforcing that skating skills and presentation are uncoupled from Technical score.
The shortened men's program means they have to pack more in without any time to rest, so it's potentially more taxing than a longer program.

But I have to point out some real fallacies here:

I feel like 4:30~ was perfect (nex to choreographic reasons) for Men as it tested their stamina to a comparable degree as in Ladies competition (Men have greater lung capacity and more powerful muscles in general); there's a reason why female cross-country skiiers cover a distance of 30 kilometres and Men 50 kilometres) as far as winter sports go.

Men and women distance runners both compete at the marathon distance, which is a little over 42 kilometers, and as distances grow longer in most endurance sports women close the performance gap. For example some top female ultra runners often beat most if not all of the top men they compete against.

The men's marathon record is 2:02:57
The women's marathon record is 2:15:25

That's only 13 1/2 minutes difference over 26.2 miles, so I am not sure why the women's cross-country skiing event is so much shorter than the men's but it's not because they don't have the same stamina or strength to handle the distance and exertion that men do.

 

[screech]

I don't get all this talk about how men are now having to cram so much into 4 minutes... their program requirements are now the same as ladies, who've managed to do it just fine. Other than just having to adapt, they aren't having to cram in any more than females.

 

[Orm Irian]

I don't get all this talk about how men are now having to cram so much into 4 minutes... their program requirements are now the same as ladies, who've managed to do it just fine. Other than just having to adapt, they aren't having to cram in any more than females.

One argument I've seen is that because quads and 3As take more time to set up in a program and require more effort to complete, male skaters are having to adjust to doing the same amount of work in each individual jumping pass as they used to, but with less time to set up and less time between elements to recover in. It is mostly an adaptation process that's...in process, though, and I think we'll see them start to figure out how to make it work and stabilise the form over the next year or so.

 

[Amantide]

If you could make just one change to the ISU Rules, what would it be?

I would bring back Compulsory Figures. If that led to scaling back on jumps, so be it. The improvement to skating quality would be worth it.

I second that.

 

[Vagabond]

I second that.

Thanks.

I came up with an alternative, if my first wish cannot be granted: Bring back Special Figures instead!

Isn't it nice that I am willing to compromise?

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I would bring back Compulsory Figures.

This is the most arousing sentence I've read in quite some time. Needless to say,I am in agreement.

No see-through front upper body clothing (men do this and it's sans taste)

The Russians and the French,of course,are the worst offenders. Figure skating used to be more pious and family-friendly,but those days are sadly long gone. More figures,less cleavage!

-BB

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

I have three changes that must be made in order to have skating restored to value's it is supposably true to.

One, all women skaters must compete with a tiara as apart of their costume, it is the best way to make sure family jewels are seen on the ice with out a viscous attack on moral ethos.

Two, bring back swim suit competition as part of the women event. My dream that skating will be almost exactas the same as Miss America may never come to fruitation, still in-stead of long program and short program lady's should have evening ware program and swim suit program.Talent optional.

Thank you

 

[kwanfan1818]

The judges corridor goes: the judges are evaluated by how their scores meet criteria, not by how close they are to each other.

 

[Marco]

By far my top rule change is for Worlds competitors to not be limiited by per country rule. If the top 5 ladies are all from Russia, let all of them compete at Worlds.

Some options:

1: set rules rewarding jumping and spinning diversity instead of prescribing specific jumps and spins (e.g. axel)

2. each TR move and each move in the ChSq must be held for over 2 seconds to count - a ChSq must have at least 2 of these

3. BV of COMBO / SEQ jumps should not just be adding the BVs of the individual jumps together (and discounting for SEQ)

4. excessive pre-rotation in jumps to count in UR and DG calls

5. clearly held jump landings (for 2 seconds) to count as a GOE bullet

6. exiting spins with control on one foot to count as a GOE bullet (exiting spins by putting other foot down to count as a negative GOE bullet)

7. speed and flow across ice be made the most important GOE bullet for StSq

8. TR score to be taken seriously

9. each PCS component can be out of line with the others

10. allow skaters to repeat jumps for a 3rd time or for a third jump to be repeated if they have legitimately maxed out other jumps.

 

[Firedancer]

I have couple:
1 - Pre-rotation should be scrutinized the same as the landing of the jump and the jump should receive a under-rotation/down grade call as appropriate.
2 - Return the FS to 4:30 for mens & pairs.
3 - Judges scores should be more closely reviewed and those caught cheating in any way should be banned for life.
4 - PCS scores should be marked appropriately in accordance with the rules - with a different (appropriate) scores actually given for each PCS category.
5 - The arm over the head results in no additional GOE. In those cases skaters continue to do it, when the arm is not extended and just kinda hangs over the head, it is marked as -GOE on the jump.

 

[antmanb]

If we're stuck with the shorter time limit in the LP for Mens and Pairs, then I say get rid of the step sequences from all programmes (mens, ladies and pairs). They routinely take at least 30 seconds if not more. Removing a jump from the men hasn't given them anything back. If they want to keep a something in place then I suggest a second non levelled choreographic sequence.

They can keep the levelled step sequence in the SP.

 

[gkelly]

2. each TR move and each move in the ChSq must be held for over 2 seconds to count - a ChSq must have at least 2 of these

That works fine for moves like spirals, hydroblades/shoot-the-duck, spread eagles, and Ina Bauers.

But what about, e.g., split jumps? Are you saying the skater needs to stay in the air for 2 seconds for the move to count?

Or transitions or choreo sequences that rely on lots of

10. allow skaters to repeat jumps for a 3rd time or for a third jump to be repeated if they have legitimately maxed out other jumps.

How would you define "legitimately maxed out"?

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

2. each TR move and each move in the ChSq must be held for over 2 seconds to count - a ChSq must have at least 2 of these

LOL, so you want patch? Because that's the only way you can hold a rocker/etc for that long, and it's not even the turn itself—it's just the entry and exit. That would be incredibly dull to watch. I also find it hard to believe in an era where program length is getting shorter that any choreographer would cede that much time—not to mention what a nightmare that would be for a technical panel to review.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Another rule: Dump the Zayak rule. Out of morbid curiosity I would love to see what combinations and scores we could see if we ditched the limitations on combos/sequences. I bet those Eteri Girls would come up with some crazy stuff.

 

[Vagabond]

Return the FS to 4:30 for mens & pairs.

I still haven't gotten over the reduction from five minutes to four minutes and thirty seconds.

 

[gkelly]

I would definitely like rules to be more encouraging about varieties of jump sequences instead of the increasingly narrow definitions we have seen in real life so far.

Maybe start the values at 80% of the values of each double or higher jump in the sequence (maybe include single axel as well, or only when there are not at least two double or higher jumps), and then add level features for difficult transitions from one jump to the next, so that some sequences would end up being worth the same as true combinations with the same jumps and some would end up being worth more.

Also "creativity" could be a GOE bullet for the jump sequence element, so judges could give extra reward for cleverness.