If You Could Make Just One Rule Change

[Marco]

I would also like to see the feature about holding a spin position for 8 revs plus be counted more than once, like it used to. Boring yes, but this is one of those features that a non-flexible skater can take advantage of, shows good control and speed, and is magnificent to see when done well.

I would much rather see a camel (8) - sit (8) change sit (8) - crossfoot (8) spin with Eldredge speed than a camel (2) - cannonball (3) change cannonball (3) - Y (2) that is slow and wobbly but ticks all 4 features on difficulty. A spin that lasts can be so effective.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I would like to see the number of triples you can repeat increased when you do the repitition in combination. It really annoys me that we don’t see a lot of triple-triples in the ladies thanks to this rule...
So I would keep the Zayak rule for the first part of the jump but say that you can repeat in the later part(s) of combinations.

THIS!!!

 

[DreamSkates]

UR. Score them as the next level down. For example, any triple UR = a double in base value. Then GOE from there - if stepped out, unbalanced, falls, etc. If they are UR, then they were never the # of rotations intended. Why count them as such?

Agree that any cheating judge is banned for life.

 

[Vagabond]

UR. Score them as the next level down. For example, any triple UR = a double in base value.

But this is what happens now.

The jump with a sign << is evaluated with SOV for the same jump one revolution less.

https://www.isu.org/docman-document...munications/17142-isu-communication-2168/file

 

[pairskatingfan]

On a more serious note I would like there be a rule against skating the same program/music more than one season.

How about a maximum number of international competitions you can use the same music? Say, 2GPs, 2CS events, 1 4CC/Euros and 1 worlds. So no more than 6 events for the same music.

 

[misskarne]

How about a maximum number of international competitions you can use the same music? Say, 2GPs, 2CS events, 1 4CC/Euros and 1 worlds. So no more than 6 events for the same music.

Once again, nice of you to consider the less well-funded skaters from less well-backed federations that simply can't afford new programs every season.

 

[RoseRed]

How about a maximum number of international competitions you can use the same music? Say, 2GPs, 2CS events, 1 4CC/Euros and 1 worlds. So no more than 6 events for the same music.

Some skaters compete much more than that, though. Some do 3 CS events, there's the GFP, there are other international B events. And some do seniors and juniors in the same season, so do both JW and Worlds. Most wouldn't, but you could see a skater doing 8-9+ internationals, so it would be not right to limit that. But then that would put you in a place where someone who competed a lot in a season couldn't reuse programs, but someone who skated a full season of 2 GP, Euros and Worlds could. Which would be unfair, since both had them for a season.

I'm not in favour of banning repeated programs. There are so many circumstances where it's an understandable choice. Lack of funds for new choreo, an injury in the off season means you don't have time to learn them, the new programs didn't work and there's not time/ money to get more new ones, etc.

 

[pairskatingfan]

What about 6 times over 2 seasons or an unlimited amount per season? This means that if someone has a legitimate reason to re-use music (they were injured and only got to skate once or twice in a specific season) they can.

 

[DreamSkates]

But this is what happens now.



https://www.isu.org/docman-document...munications/17142-isu-communication-2168/file

So there is a < and a <<?

 

[gkelly]

So there is a < and a <<?

Yes. I think the difference was introduced in the 2011 season.

 

[DreamSkates]

Yes. I think the difference was introduced in the 2011 season.

So a < is not counted as the next level down, but a << is.

 

[gkelly]

So a < is not counted as the next level down, but a << is.

Right.

Originally, every underrotated jump was downgraded to the next level down. If you look at the protocols from 2004-05 you'll see triple attempts listed as doubles and quad attempts listed as triples.

That caused some problems with the Zayak rule, so they instituted the < notation that meant the higher jump had been attempted but not rotated to within 90 degrees, so it got the base value of the lower rotation jump, along with -GOE.

Some jumps looked quite nice in real time to the naked eye (notably Yukari Nakano's 3A at 2008 Worlds) but were revealed by tech panel reviews to be short by more than 90 degrees, so they were harshly punished by being downgraded to the base value of a double with -GOE.

It didn't seem fair to punish jumps that were only moderately underrotated and otherwise well executed equally harshly as attempts that weren't even close.

So eventually the ISU instituted two levels of penalty for underrotated jumps. If short by 180 degrees or more, the symbol was now << meaning downgraded to the value of the same takeoff with one fewer rotations. For underrotations between 90 and 180 degrees, the base value is lowered to 70% of the value of the attempted jump. So the base value is still punished, but not as harshly.

Also the recommended GOE reductions for << downgrades are larger than for < underrotations.

This has been true for 8 years already, although there are a couple of tweaks this year.

 

[DreamSkates]

Right.

Originally, every underrotated jump was downgraded to the next level down. If you look at the protocols from 2004-05 you'll see triple attempts listed as doubles and quad attempts listed as triples.

That caused some problems with the Zayak rule, so they instituted the < notation that meant the higher jump had been attempted but not rotated to within 90 degrees, so it got the base value of the lower rotation jump, along with -GOE.

Some jumps looked quite nice in real time to the naked eye (notably Yukari Nakano's 3A at 2008 Worlds) but were revealed by tech panel reviews to be short by more than 90 degrees, so they were harshly punished by being downgraded to the base value of a double with -GOE.

It didn't seem fair to punish jumps that were only moderately underrotated and otherwise well executed equally harshly as attempts that weren't even close.

So eventually the ISU instituted two levels of penalty for underrotated jumps. If short by 180 degrees or more, the symbol was now << meaning downgraded to the value of the same takeoff with one fewer rotations. For underrotations between 90 and 180 degrees, the base value is lowered to 70% of the value of the attempted jump. So the base value is still punished, but not as harshly.

Also the recommended GOE reductions for << downgrades are larger than for < underrotations.

This has been true for 8 years already, although there are a couple of tweaks this year.

Thanks for explaining!

 

[Aussie Willy]

How about a maximum number of international competitions you can use the same music? Say, 2GPs, 2CS events, 1 4CC/Euros and 1 worlds. So no more than 6 events for the same music.

Why not just come up with a list before the season to say these pieces of music can't be used?

 

[Vagabond]

Why not just come up with a list before the season to say these pieces of music can't be used?

Unfortunately, the possibilities are endless.

 

[Marco]

What about 6 times over 2 seasons or an unlimited amount per season? This means that if someone has a legitimate reason to re-use music (they were injured and only got to skate once or twice in a specific season) they can.

That sounds weird. If someone plans to compete at 2 CS, 2 GP, Euros and Worlds - and then surprisingly makes the GPF, they have to get a new program for Worlds? Or WTT?

What if someone has already competed five times this season but didn't skate well and still needs to go to a spring international to get the minimum TES for Worlds? He gets to qualify for Worlds at that spring international but needs a new program for Worlds?

 

[pairskatingfan]

ok maybe my idea sucks

 

[Spiralgraph]

After listening to the new Hubbell/Donohue interview, Madison reminded me of the team event when only two substitutions could be made. I'd like to see substitutes allowed for all 4 disciplines.

 

[mjb52]

I've changed my mind about lyrics - I think they do give a wider and better variation of music possibilities even though I think when used badly they are distracting. What I'd really like to do is get rid of the team competition! I want the best skaters to be focused on peaking for their own events.

 

[screech]

What I'd really like to do is get rid of the team competition! I want the best skaters to be focused on peaking for their own events.

Or alternatively, host the team event last. Though NBC who pays the most $$ for broadcasting rights, would never allow that.

 

[DreamSkates]

Why not just come up with a list before the season to say these pieces of music can't be used?

Yes, an "I am sick and tired of hearing this music" list by the judges.

 

[paskatefan]

Lots of great suggestions here. I would like to see a limit placed on the number of jumps with the hand over head thing. Once is fine, but several times in one program is overdone!

 

[Orm Irian]

Because I'm feeling tetchy today: this is for major championships only, but I'd make it so that if you miss a required element in the Short Program/Short Dance (2A+, solo triple, required lift, jump combination, required spins, pattern dance etc), you don't get to advance to the Free Skate/Free Dance no matter what kind of insane cricket score you manage to knock up on the remainder of your elements.

Falls don't count as missing an element in and of themselves, unless they mean losing the jump combination, but popped jumps, aborted lifts etc do.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Lots of great suggestions here. I would like to see a limit placed on the number of jumps with the hand over head thing. Once is fine, but several times in one program is overdone!

YASSSSSSS


and if its the elbow bent so its like resting on the top of your head like Sotskova, Samurdova (spelling) and The Empress than NO +GOE for that.... that is not a Tano and it looks like they are nursing a headache while they are rotating in the air!!!

 

[misskarne]

What about 6 times over 2 seasons or an unlimited amount per season? This means that if someone has a legitimate reason to re-use music (they were injured and only got to skate once or twice in a specific season) they can.

But what if they were injured the season before and then do a 2015 Liza (13 competitions) the next season? By your rule Liza would have had to change programs halfway through the season!

 

[CaliSteve]

Add back the 30 seconds to the Men's free.

 

[tony]

A lot of you want to add the 30 seconds back but why not go the ice dance route and maybe remove the step sequence from the free skate that often resembles the one done in the short (and goes on for a minute) and come up with two or three creative moves that match the music but aren’t necessarily time-consuming or the most difficult? The choreo sequence should be amazing, but often I find it lazy or boring and not going with the music really at all. Maybe it would be better if most skaters weren’t using all of their energy on the step sequence.

 

[tony]

Because I'm feeling tetchy today: this is for major championships only, but I'd make it so that if you miss a required element in the Short Program/Short Dance (2A+, solo triple, required lift, jump combination, required spins, pattern dance etc), you don't get to advance to the Free Skate/Free Dance no matter what kind of insane cricket score you manage to knock up on the remainder of your elements.

Falls don't count as missing an element in and of themselves, unless they mean losing the jump combination, but popped jumps, aborted lifts etc do.

Would NEVER work. Could you imagine Hanyu doubling a planned 4T and then telling him he can’t go to the free skate even though he’d still probably be in the top 3 based on all other elements and the strength of his program?

 

[Marco]

Would NEVER work. Could you imagine Hanyu doubling a planned 4T and then telling him he can’t go to the free skate even though he’d still probably be in the top 3 based on all other elements and the strength of his program?

Agree. How about for short programs, any elements with negaitve GOEs get 0 in BV? This will be much more akin to the old days when a missed element gets a -0.4 and will somewhat put the importance of cleanliness back in the short program. Right now, there is not much difference between making the same mistake in the short or in the free.

I am also in favour of more prescribed jumps and spins in the short program but less rules for the free.

 

[screech]

I do think there should be a bigger penalty in the short if a skater doesn't do a combination...