I, Tonya

[Inessence]

I think she and Jeff have probably revised their stories over the years to make themselves look as victimized as possible. And Shawn is conveniently dead now, and cannot refute whatever BS they come up with. (And it's apparently working to pin the blame on him, as bardtoob and others here have demonstrated.) And that is beyond appalling and frankly, ridiculously funny to think that he could have masterminded the whole plot. Yeah, he was one hell of a espionage expert and brain trust, folks.

Shawn was certainly delusional, possibly even schizoid. Did you see his interview with Diane Sawyer? A complete mental case. He wasn't however, completely harmless. After the shit hit the fan he met with the preacher he went to vocational school and originally spilled his guts to at a local restaurant (the preacher was wired by the FBI.) The FBI trailing Shawn saw him load a gun into his car and told the preacher that under no circumstance are you to get in the car with him. First thing Shawn says when they get into the restaurant? "Let's go for a ride." The preacher refused to leave with him.

The guy "Derrick" was apparently Shawn's "pot dealer" and survivalist friend while the "hit man" Shawn Stant was Derrick's nephew. Derrick has never once spoken out about anything and Shane Stant is about as delusional as Shawn. He actually opened a 1-900 line in 1994 trying to sell "plot points" and other information about the assault, including Tonya's supposed involvement for 50 cents a minute. He's since told the 30 for 30 director Nanette Burstein in 2014 he has no idea if Tonya was involved.

 

[Simone411]

I am carefully considering your comments.

I recognize that I am not pointing out in every post that Tonya was no angel. Tonya was not above grabbing her own baseball bat or hub cap.

Moreover, Tonya should have worked harder on her skating because then she could have always been better. Instead, she did not work hard enough and just got by on enough last minute conditioning and talent.

This is so true. To me, it's possibly one of two things that could have happened with that situation and I'm being serious this time. She and Jeff had to get rid of that information pretty fast and threw it in the trash bin.

The number 2 scenario could possibly be that Jeff somehow managed to set Tonya up. It's possible that he could have actually gotten her to write down that information without realizing what the information was for. Then he threw it in the trash bin to get rid of it so it wouldn't be found on him. The only problem with this scenario is that it isn't that realistic.

She gave that information to Jeff, and then they both got rid of it so it wouldn't be found on them.

 

[Inessence]

This is so true. To me, it's possibly one of two things that could have happened with that situation and I'm being serious this time. She and Jeff had to get rid of that information pretty fast and threw it in the trash bin.

The number 2 scenario could possibly be that Jeff somehow managed to set Tonya up. It's possible that he could have actually gotten her to write down that information without realizing what the information was for. Then he threw it in the trash bin to get rid of it so it wouldn't be found on him. The only problem with this scenario is that it isn't that realistic.

She gave that information to Jeff, and then they both got rid of it so it wouldn't be found on them.

The envelope in the trash wasn't found by the restaurant owner until February 1st according to this timeline: http://www.oregonlive.com/tonya-harding/2006/05/timeline_the_tonya_harding-nan.html

Harding left Gillooly on January 18. So unless the Dockside's garbage pick-up is sporadic, or was sitting there for two weeks before the owner rifled through it, (gross) I'd venture that Gillooly put it there himself.

ETA: In "The Tonya Tapes" she does say Jeff used a ruse to get her to find out Nancy's information. It was pretty convoluted story, but not implausible. Apparently, Jeff used to accompany Tonya on "tours" and knew pretty much everybody. He was also acting as her manager/agent, so his asking questions about a skater wouldn't necessarily seem out of place.

 

[Yazmeen]

I am carefully considering your comments.

I recognize that I am not pointing out in every post that Tonya was no angel. Tonya was not above grabbing her own baseball bat or hub cap.

Moreover, Tonya should have worked harder on her skating because then she could have always been better. Instead, she did not work hard enough and just got by on enough last minute conditioning and talent.

My point is that every time Tonya gets interviewed, the story changes. Now she is "suddenly" stating that she actually knew "something was going on" before the attack, which is a big change from her previous line that she knew nothing until after it happened. And while I haven't seen the movie yet, from some of what I've read, it seems the movie puts more blame on Shawn than anyone else which doesn't exactly line up with the story in 1994. I mentioned you because your latest posts seem to be lining up with this idea that Shawn masterminded the attack and Jeff and Tonya got dragged into it, which is REAL revisionist history over what we knew until now. And here's a little history from 2013, the last time Jeff was formally interviewed about the attack - he was again asked if Tonya knew about it:

"JS: Of course she did. I think most people know that she did. She's a very unhappy person, from what I can tell. I don't know. I haven't talked to her in 20 years but I occasionally see her on television and I kind of see—I've read some stories in the paper about what her personal life has become and the trouble she's got there, and it's just sad to me. And that's probably, if I had one real regret, we rode her career. We absolutely rode her career. She was the best figure skater—women's figure skater—that ever lived. Still is, in my opinion. We decided to do something really stupid there, and it ruined her. She'll never be remembered for how wonderful a figure skater she was. She'll be remembered for what I talked her into doing."

Full article: https://deadspin.com/finding-gillooly-what-happened-to-figure-skatings-inf-1482669790

This interview (and what we knew prior to the movie) doesn't in any way back up the idea that Shawn was the main culprit and Jeff and Tonya got caught in the middle, so to speak. Until "I, Tonya," everything I've ever read pretty much outlined that Jeff and Shawn and the others planned this together, so to suddenly now suggest that a dead man who cannot defend himself was the primary culprit sounds pretty fishy to me. And another way for Tonya to play the innocent victim.

 

[bardtoob]

My point is that every time Tonya gets interviewed, the story changes. Now she is "suddenly" stating that she actually knew "something was going on" before the attack, which is a big change from her previous line that she knew nothing until after it happened.

Good point.

"JS: Of course she did. I think most people know that she did. She's a very unhappy person, from what I can tell. I don't know. I haven't talked to her in 20 years but I occasionally see her on television and I kind of see—I've read some stories in the paper about what her personal life has become and the trouble she's got there, and it's just sad to me. And that's probably, if I had one real regret, we rode her career. We absolutely rode her career. She was the best figure skater—women's figure skater—that ever lived. Still is, in my opinion. We decided to do something really stupid there, and it ruined her. She'll never be remembered for how wonderful a figure skater she was. She'll be remembered for what I talked her into doing."

I think, because we have both not seen the movie, we need to consider that the movie depicts the contrast between Tonya's story and Jeff's story. However, in the build up, nobody is talking about how Jeff's side is depicted in the movie.

What is Jeff's side? Why and how does it contrast with Tonya's side?

I do not know the answer to that.

 

[VGThuy]

The guy "Derrick" was apparently Shawn's "pot dealer" and survivalist friend while the "hit man" Shawn Stant was Derrick's nephew. Derrick has never once spoken out about anything and Shane Stant is about as delusional as Shawn. He actually opened a 1-900 line in 1994 trying to sell "plot points" and other information about the assault, including Tonya's supposed involvement for 50 cents a minute. He's since told the 30 for 30 director Nanette Burstein in 2014 he has no idea if Tonya was involved.

That's pretty consistent with the story in that Tonya was never in direct contact with Derrick and Shane. I don't think Jeff really was early on either as Shawn was the middle man. I remember there being dispute with the money and such.

 

[Inessence]

Full article: https://deadspin.com/finding-gillooly-what-happened-to-figure-skatings-inf-1482669790

This interview (and what we knew prior to the movie) doesn't in any way back up the idea that Shawn was the main culprit and Jeff and Tonya got caught in the middle, so to speak. Until "I, Tonya," everything I've ever read pretty much outlined that Jeff and Shawn and the others planned this together, so to suddenly now suggest that a dead man who cannot defend himself was the primary culprit sounds pretty fishy to me. And another way for Tonya to play the innocent victim.

I think Gillooly is pretty diabolical. For 24 years he's got to have his cake and eat it too. He now has two adult children. He's probably been feeding them the same story he told the "I, Tonya" screenwriter 'Oh no, Daddy didn't have the lady figure skater attacked, that was all on Shawn!'
Yet, he's also been saying to the public all this time 'Oh yeah, Tonya was totally in on it from the start! (Implying the attack, not just letters.) Of course, he was also offered a sweet plea deal for giving up Tonya, for which he could offer no hard evidence, just hearsay. The envelope being found was happenstance.
Jeff's lame "just letters" story would never fly in court and he knew it. Not with him wiring the attackers so many thousands of dollars during the course of their journey. Using their real names no less. What a moron. Though I don't think he was ever charged with the actual assault. He was convicted for racketeering.

 

[Anjelica]

And now, why can't we have a film about figure skating that has less to do with scandal, and more to do with what the sport is actually about?

That sort of stuff doesn't sell; you must know that it's the scandalous stuff and shocking headlines that always get peoples' attention unfortunately

 

[Anjelica]

.

 

[Anjelica]

I'm looking forward to seeing this movie, I was there that night it happened, I was ushering at Joe Louis Arena next door when people started coming in and asking me 'how's Nancy?' I had no idea what had happened so could only ask them what they were talking about! My strongest memory of that night was that it was a white out Michigan blizzard outside and anyone who left the building would have been quickly impossible to find with the thick snow that was falling outside. So easy to make a clean getaway! Without reading all the comments right now I am wondering if this movie would be appropriate for a 13 year old girl to see as I see it's rated 'R'.

 

[BaileyCatts]

...........Moreover, Tonya should have worked harder on her skating because then she could have always been better. Instead, she did not work hard enough and just got by on enough last minute conditioning and talent.

That is exactly what infuriated me at the time as, like I've said before, I was a huge Tonya fan. She had the ability to technically compete with Midori jump for jump (when she skated clean), but Midori had it all over Tonya on the Artistic mark. And as much as she whines about getting held down, she sucked at the second mark! Even skating her absolute best, I would still only score her about a 5.7 for the second mark, at her prime and perfect skate ... a 5.8. If she had focused on steady, constant training and conditioning, instead of her last minute ways, and spent the time necessary to improve her Artistic marks no matter how much she hated it, she could have been on that 1992 or 1994 Olympic podium, or both, and rake in those $$$$$ she so longed for. If she would have taken that 'victim mentality', 'everyone is against me', 'they'll never give me the marks I deserve" attitude and turned it into a "I'll effing show you, you beyotch" attitude and improved her Artistic mark....... geez, we'd be talking about her these 20+ years later for a whole different reason. Truly one of the biggest wastes of pure, raw, natural talent in any sport ever.

 

[Vagabond]

And now, why can't we have a film about figure skating that has less to do with scandal, and more to do with what the sport is actually about?

Ahem....

You will be glad to know that I am working on a screenplay entitled "Tracings: The Beatrix Scuba Story." It focuses on her disappointment at the 1968 Olympics, her decision to concentrate on figures, and her victory in Sapporo. Roughly 80% of the running time will be dedicated to showing her practicing figure eights.

It will also show her work as a scuba instructor (hence the altered spelling of her surname).

I'm also working on a script for a television pilot about a law firm in Los Angeles. It will be dedicated to showing what the practice of law is actually about: reading and re-reading drafts of licensing agreements, compiling privilege logs, doing research on line, sitting through interminable law-and-motion calendars, and dealing with printer and copy machine crashes when facing a deadline to submit a supplemental brief to the judge.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Without reading all the comments right now I am wondering if this movie would be appropriate for a 13 year old girl to see as I see it's rated 'R'.

The movie has a more-or-less Quentin Tarantino level of swearing as well as several disturbing, realistic depictions of domestic violence. I saw worse when I was thirteen but I was used to adult (not as in porn) literature and film from having a family that encouraged me to pursue cultural and artistic stuff.

 

[Anita18]

Good point.

I think, because we have both not seen the movie, we need to consider that the movie depicts the contrast between Tonya's story and Jeff's story. However, in the build up, nobody is talking about how Jeff's side is depicted in the movie.

What is Jeff's side? Why and how does it contrast with Tonya's side?

I do not know the answer to that.

According to the movie, which takes Jeff's viewpoint in this part (which I think is important to note)...(And I guess I'm spoiling the movie here? Whatever!)

Spoiler

Jeff was "inspired" by the death threats Tonya received at Regionals, and thought he'd send threatening letters to Nancy as psychological warfare and to "even out the playing field." (If Tonya gets death threats, Nancy should get death threats too! I guess..) Shawn says he knows the guys to do it. Jeff sends the guys money to get them out of state to send the letters, so the postmark wouldn't come from Portland. Tonya writes down Nancy's training rink so they'd know where to send the letters. (IIRC the movie doesn't actually show Jeff sitting Tonya down to tell her about the plan blow-by-blow, but it's clear in the movie that Tonya knows it's supposed to be "just letters."

The fact that the two dudes bash in Nancy's knee instead comes as a shock to Jeff, who confronts Shawn. "It was just supposed to be letters!" Jeff insists, but Shawn says it's better that Nancy's knee is bashed in because "he's always 4 steps ahead" (he's clearly off his rocker here, the movie portrays him as a complete moron out of his depth). Shawn even admits that he's the one who sent Tonya the death threats at Regionals.

Jeff tries to keep Tonya out of the loop. She's just won Nationals and is going to the Olympics, she doesn't need the distraction. Plus he knows she'd be in deep sh** if the authorities find out she knew they were threatening Nancy at all. But of course their story falls apart when she realizes what has snowballed. She goes to the FBI and rats him out after he hits her in frustration.

The movie isn't totally clear on when they change viewpoints. There are several instances where the interviewed character insists it didn't happen the way Tonya told it. But the planning of the whack clearly happens in Jeff's POV, since it follows him throughout.

Without reading all the comments right now I am wondering if this movie would be appropriate for a 13 year old girl to see as I see it's rated 'R'.

There is a ton of smoking, A TON of cursing, lots of scenes of domestic violence (two of them frightening), and several scenes with nudity in it. Oh, and rabbit hunting is also depicted, although the rabbits aren't killed onscreen. They are shown being skinned onscreen...

I've added to the parents' guide on IMDB if you need more details.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Let's add this one to the "Don't Believes" list from a few posts back .......

..... That Jeff was "inspired" by the death threats at Regionals and came up with this plan yada yada yada. Bullshyte, since they were the ones who called in the death threat! I'm sorry but there is no way anyone else of this face of this planet had anything to do with that death threat unless their names were Tonya Harding, Jeff Gillooly or Shawn Eckhardt!

 

[meggonzo]

That is exactly what infuriated me at the time as, like I've said before, I was a huge Tonya fan. She had the ability to technically compete with Midori jump for jump (when she skated clean), but Midori had it all over Tonya on the Artistic mark. And as much as she whines about getting held down, she sucked at the second mark! Even skating her absolute best, I would still only score her about a 5.7 for the second mark, at her prime and perfect skate ... a 5.8. If she had focused on steady, constant training and conditioning, instead of her last minute ways, and spent the time necessary to improve her Artistic marks no matter how much she hated it, she could have been on that 1992 or 1994 Olympic podium, or both, and rake in those $$$$$ she so longed for. If she would have taken that 'victim mentality', 'everyone is against me', 'they'll never give me the marks I deserve" attitude and turned it into a "I'll effing show you, you beyotch" attitude and improved her Artistic mark....... geez, we'd be talking about her these 20+ years later for a whole different reason. Truly one of the biggest wastes of pure, raw, natural talent in any sport ever.

Noooo! I live for those 91 & 92 programs, lol. The 91 short at Worlds was really excellent and a great way to package a power skater. I thought the Much Ado About Nothing short later on was good too.

 

[Vagabond]

If she would have taken that 'victim mentality', 'everyone is against me', 'they'll never give me the marks I deserve" attitude and turned it into a "I'll effing show you, you beyotch" attitude and improved her Artistic mark.......

It is very difficult for someone who suffered severe psychological abuse as a child -- as Harding apparently did -- to make that kind of transformation as an adult. Not necessarily impossible, but very difficult.

 

[skateboy]

Midori had it all over Tonya on the Artistic mark.

I disagree. I loved the power of both Tonya and Midori but, IMO, they were pretty equal artistically, with Tonya having a slight edge... I think she was often a very musical skater.

 

[Inessence]

Tonya could also spin like no other. Very underrated there compared to her jumps.

 

[cmk]

I disagree. I loved the power of both Tonya and Midori but, IMO, they were pretty equal artistically, with Tonya having a slight edge... I think she was often a very musical skater.

I liked Tonya, Midori and Surya. Of those 3, Tonya had the edge on the 2nd mark. I preferred all 3 of them to Nancy. No one has mentioned that Nancy was very very slow (at the winter coi I show I went to, I swear Dorothy skated faster than Nancy did . Tonya could be very good at interpreting music. Nancy didn't have a musical bone in her entire body.
Midori and Surya did have the advantage of being the only world-class skaters from their countries at the time. Once France developed some other skaters that could medal, they didn't treat Surya quite as well. There was one year that she won French nationals and got left off the world team because they didn't think she had enough technical content. ( She was coming back from a major injury that year). Midori's reinstatement in 96 was a disaster, and she was pressured by the Japanese fed to lose weight.

 

[Jarrett]

Finally saw the movie and it was a C+/B- for me. My spouse liked it more than I did and he doesn't know much about skating.

 

[bardtoob]

Finally saw the movie and it was a C+/B- for me. My spouse liked it more than I did and he doesn't know much about skating.

Maybe that's good since appealing to the general public is the upside to all this.

Skating fans have no hope of every getting a fully believable story. Although, I guarantee there is more dumbassary than any of us could possibly believe in the middle of the truth.

 

[berthesghost]

Did anyone see that “I, Tonya” spoof Milk put on instagram? Is it a teaser for a larger fluff piece with Adam and Ashley?

ETA: just saw it in the skip!

 

[cmk]

This is so true. To me, it's possibly one of two things that could have happened with that situation and I'm being serious this time. She and Jeff had to get rid of that information pretty fast and threw it in the trash bin.

The number 2 scenario could possibly be that Jeff somehow managed to set Tonya up. It's possible that he could have actually gotten her to write down that information without realizing what the information was for. Then he threw it in the trash bin to get rid of it so it wouldn't be found on him. The only problem with this scenario is that it isn't that realistic.

She gave that information to Jeff, and then they both got rid of it so it wouldn't be found on them.

The one story was that it was for a picture of the 3 of them at 91 worlds that Tonya and Kristi had signed, and she wanted to get Nancy to sign it so she could auction it off at a fan club event. There is one simple way to find out if that is true that no one thought of- just ask Kristi if she signed the picture. The other was a bet with Jeff . The two are not mutually exclusive.
I thought it was a setup because if Gilloly dumped the trash on the 18th and 19 and the note wasn't found until Feb1. I doubt I would want to eat at a restaurant that didn't get their garage picked up over a 2 week period. That check was for $10,000 (she got it at nationals for winning). If Jeff paid Diane and Erika the $6,500 that was owed them, how did he pay Shawn and the other guys? The math doesn't work. 10,000-6,500-6500 is a negative number. I doubt Tonya had extra funds to cover the difference so where did the rest come from?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I disagree. I loved the power of both Tonya and Midori but, IMO, they were pretty equal artistically, with Tonya having a slight edge... I think she was often a very musical skater.

I agree with you a bit. When I go back and watch them again they were both lacking big on artistry.

But if I had to choose Id give the slightest of edge to Midori. Confidently.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I agree with you a bit. When I go back and watch them again they were both lacking big on artistry.

But if I had to choose Id give the slightest of edge to Midori. Confidently.

I loved Midori's artistry. Especially during the 1989/90 season. Her big band themed short program was light and fun, and the free skate to Scherezade really capitalised on her speed and power.

By 1990/91, however, I felt her team was trying to model her along the lines of Yamaguchi. Her programs seemed so much more serious and heavy.

At her best, Tonya was getting presentation / composition & style marks in line with her technical merit. Case in point at Skate America in 1991. For me, that free program is still one of the ladies' skates of the decade, and one of the few I can watch over and over.

 

[casken]

Reading some of the plot points and knowing they came directly from interviews with Tonya and Jeff, it kind of reinforces my long held suspicion that Tonya maintains she wasn't involved in the the attack on Nancy Kerrigan becuase in her mind the actual "attack", the one that took place at Nationals, the one that was slapped together at the last second by Shawn and Derrick becuase they missed Kerrigan at her home rink, happened without input from Tonya.

So even if Tonya was involved in the plot about the threats, and even the plot to attack Kerrigan at her home rink, in her mind, she wasn't part of "the attack" on Kerrigan that took place at Nationals becuase that was all Shane and Derrick. Obviously that wouldn't work in a court of law, but it probably is what helps Tonya get through life.

edit: I was googling to find out exactly when the planning for the Nationals attack took place, and came across this Detroit Free Press article from December has pretty detailed timeline that comes from "law enforcement officials and others familiar with the investigation" that seems to confirm the "Death threat scheme gone out of control" story. It even suggests that Gillooly tried to stop the plan when it went past the death threat phase, but Shawn talked him into meeting Derrick Smith.

 

[VGThuy]

So she took part of the money given to her by the USFS via a donation by a millionaire to help fund some sort of scheme against another USFS skater. To me having any part of the attack on a fellow USFS skater to win a USFS competition was enough to justify a lifetime ban by the USFS, but the money aspect just adds to the justification.

 

[gkelly]

So even if Tonya was involved in the plot about the threats, and even the plot to attack Kerrigan at her home rink, in her mind, she wasn't part of "the attack" on Kerrigan that took place at Nationals becuase that was all Shane and Derrick. Obviously that wouldn't work in a court of law, but it probably is what helps Tonya get through life.

That could be.

And after this many years, I wouldn't trust any of their memories about what they knew when, what were fudging details they told the authorities at the time vs. what really happened.

"according tolaw enforcement officials and others familiar with the investigation" that seems to confirm the "Death threat scheme gone out of control" story.

Although, as alluded above, I'm sure that whatever Tonya and Jeff told the FBI in their sworn statements was spun to make them appear as innocent as possible, I expect that the officers who took those statements and negotiated Harding's plea deal probably had a better idea of the truth than anyone aside from the participants at the time, and probably a better idea now than anyone including the participants, assuming they're still alive and could check notes/sealed documents to remind themselves of what Tonya and Jeff did each admit to under oath.

 

[Seerek]

I loved Midori's artistry. Especially during the 1989/90 season. Her big band themed short program was light and fun, and the free skate to Scherezade really capitalised on her speed and power.

By 1990/91, however, I felt her team was trying to model her along the lines of Yamaguchi. Her programs seemed so much more serious and heavy.

At her best, Tonya was getting presentation / composition & style marks in line with her technical merit. Case in point at Skate America in 1991. For me, that free program is still one of the ladies' skates of the decade, and one of the few I can watch over and over.

The overall composition of Midori's programs were underrated, IMO. Lots of transitions in and out of everything and a decent amount of moves in the field and multi-directional skating. Good matching of moves to the program music's crescendos and musical highlights (excellent sequencing of music in general, the Glenn Miller adaptation of Il Trovatore's Anvil Chorus short program as mentioned above an example).