How do we manage to live in a skating world without mandatory spiral sequence?

AngieNikodinovLove

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4,415
I guess the same way I have manged to live in a world without a classic layback that doesn't lead to a Biellmann.

Its difficult but Percoset and mood stabilizers have helped.

:)
 

Michalle

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1,590
How do we know we are actually alive - what if this is purgatory and existing without mandatory spiral sequences is just one of the many ways in which our sins are purged before we are ready to go to heaven (my understanding of the theology of purgatory is pretty much limited to what I got from Lost so sorry if that's off a bit).
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,315
The IJS made spiral sequences ugly. I am glad they are gone. I would rather a choreography sequence that includes one good arabesque spiral.
 

PeterG

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12,484
How do we manage to live in a skating world without mandatory spiral sequence?
The days of spirals done by Michelle Kwan, Nicole Bobek, Sasha Cohen... Sigh... Those were the days. I wish the ISU would make a certain figure skating element or move mandatory on a rotating basis. So one year would be a spiral sequence, one year could be a split jump sequence...bringing back lost moves to spice things up.

P.S. I did a google search for split jumps and found this photo of Stephane Lambiel doing a "stag jump" (never heard of it) that looks glorious.
 

alchemy void

4 more years! 4 more years!
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Sorry, totally disagree. Stop looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. 90% of spiral sequences during 6.0 were bad, and 99% of spiral during the first years of IJS were hideous.

If a skater has a fantastic spiral, they can showcase it as their CH sequence. No need to make a spiral sequence mandatory, and then have to sit through ten painful spirals, just to see a good one.
 

screech

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6,100
I never liked spiral sequences. I personally prefer sequences of field moves, and think they should be done by both ladies and men.
I actually remember when I was skating in the FP you could do a sequence of field moves (though with at least one spiral). I had good hip flexibility so I could perform really strong inside and outside spread eagles and ina bauers, so I did well there, compared to the mandatory spiral sequence in the SP. I didn't have the proper flexibility for a gorgeous spiral.

Ina Bauers, spread eagles, pivots, hydroblading - give me that please!!!
 

PeterG

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12,484
Sorry, totally disagree. Stop looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. 90% of spiral sequences during 6.0 were bad, and 99% of spiral during the first years of IJS were hideous.

If a skater has a fantastic spiral, they can showcase it as their CH sequence. No need to make a spiral sequence mandatory, and then have to sit through ten painful spirals, just to see a good one.
I've never taken figure skating lessons or trained to be a judge. Just somebody who turns on the TV when a skating competition is on. So I can't critique technique in terms of what does and does not deserve positive or negative GOE. So...as a "common fan" - I have to say I don't remember ever seeing an "awful" spiral sequence. If anyone would care to provide links to spiral sequences they consider to be "painful" to watch, I'd love to learn from you. And I really appreciate when someone mentions the time in the video of which they are referring to. I find that to be helpful, a time-saver and very considerate on the part of the poster. :40beers:
 

Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
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[QUOTE="PeterG, post: 5428254...as a "common fan" - I have to say I don't remember ever seeing an "awful" spiral sequence. If anyone would care to provide links to spiral sequences they consider to be "painful" to watch, I'd love to learn from you...:[/QUOTE]

Pull up any DVD of Emily Hughes hiking up her legs in an attempted spiral with Biellman position. Like carrying the holiday turkey...it was not flattering on any otherwise-good skater with shortish muscular legs.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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17,859
How do I live? Quite well, knowing that the ISU has moved on somewhat from being sexist old dinosaurs who think all women are flexible and thus must do a spiral. This unflexible woman is quite happy there are no more mandatory spiral sequences and no more mandatory laybacks.
 

Marco

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14,302
I've never taken figure skating lessons or trained to be a judge. Just somebody who turns on the TV when a skating competition is on. So I can't critique technique in terms of what does and does not deserve positive or negative GOE. So...as a "common fan" - I have to say I don't remember ever seeing an "awful" spiral sequence. If anyone would care to provide links to spiral sequences they consider to be "painful" to watch, I'd love to learn from you. And I really appreciate when someone mentions the time in the video of which they are referring to. I find that to be helpful, a time-saver and very considerate on the part of the poster. :40beers:
Check out Irina Slutskaya's spiral sequences in 2006.
 

VGThuy

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29,446
Both Irina and Emily Hughes examples were IJS era. IJS ruined the sequence just like they ruined all spins. I mean it actually did a lot of good in that skaters were forced to pay attention to those things but making them leveled created uniformity and forced skaters to lose their individuality when it came to those elements (and attempt things they shouldn't be attempting). By the time 2010 hit those spiral sequences were making all the LPs so monotonous and some of those sequences were horrible. I mean 6.0 did have some bad spiral sequences in the SP, but because they were not leveled or gained specific points, skaters were able to not make them look the same and often times put their own spin on them that was right for their body type AND for the music/character AND their own personality.

I still wish the SP had spiral/move-in-the-field sequences because to me I like it when skaters are compared element by element in the SP. I hate that the line between SP and LP have been so blurred.

When would you say was the last time we had an effective spiral in skating? I guess Karen Chen's "On Golden Pond" SP but even then it's not the same.
 
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Lchan

Active Member
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58
Nah. I'm old enough to have been a fan before IJS. Most people's spirals weren't that memorable either under 6.0 or IJS. (Most skaters are not Michelle Kwan! :biggrinbo) Most spirals were average. It's just that we remember the really great ones.

Short answer: I don't see the point of making spirals compulsory - but if anyone has one as good as the Kween, I'd like to see it and would like to see it properly rewarded under whatever judging system is in place.
 

Marco

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14,302
I still wish the SP had spiral/move-in-the-field sequences because to me I like it when skaters are compared element by element in the SP. I hate that the line between SP and LP have been so blurred.
Well I prefer to have only 7 elements in the short instead of 8 just so there's more room for actual choreography. These IJS spins and steps take up so much time.

Even in the long, I don't like the lack of emphasis for the ChSq. Most people don't pay attention to spirals anymore, and the other moves like ina bauers and spread eagles aren't held long enough to have sufficient impact (unless you are Kaetlyn Osmond or Ashley Wagner). I mention Alina Zagitova again as an example.
 

VGThuy

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29,446
I wouldn't mind a time limit on footwork like how there are time limits on dance lifts. I also wouldn't mind if one or two of the required spins become a choreographic spin/basic-to-level 1 spin. Maybe they should do that in the LP instead. I don't mind the SP going back closer to being a technical program. IMO, the fact that we have to "make room" for actual choreography is an inherent problem with figure skating from an artistic side.
 
Messages
72
The days of spirals done by Michelle Kwan, Nicole Bobek, Sasha Cohen... Sigh... Those were the days. I wish the ISU would make a certain figure skating element or move mandatory on a rotating basis. So one year would be a spiral sequence, one year could be a split jump sequence...bringing back lost moves to spice things up.

P.S. I did a google search for split jumps and found this photo of Stephane Lambiel doing a "stag jump" (never heard of it) that looks glorious.
Aw! Sasha's Russians were glorious.
 
Messages
72
I've never taken figure skating lessons or trained to be a judge. Just somebody who turns on the TV when a skating competition is on. So I can't critique technique in terms of what does and does not deserve positive or negative GOE. So...as a "common fan" - I have to say I don't remember ever seeing an "awful" spiral sequence. If anyone would care to provide links to spiral sequences they consider to be "painful" to watch, I'd love to learn from you. And I really appreciate when someone mentions the time in the video of which they are referring to. I find that to be helpful, a time-saver and very considerate on the part of the poster. :40beers:
Glorious on the left / Unbearable on the right
 

DreamSkates

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2,205
Sorry, totally disagree. Stop looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. 90% of spiral sequences during 6.0 were bad, and 99% of spiral during the first years of IJS were hideous.

If a skater has a fantastic spiral, they can showcase it as their CH sequence. No need to make a spiral sequence mandatory, and then have to sit through ten painful spirals, just to see a good one.
My memories are of the beautifully done spiral sequences. Sure, the rest can stay in the past. But is there a way to include them and reward same - like the Beilman spin, so many slow and ugly ones yet when there is a brilliant one, wow.
 

umronnie

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I am not a fan of looking at little girls' crotches. Nor grown men's (I'm looking at you, Mr. Brown. Quit airing your privates!)
 

Marco

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14,302
Watched Zagitova this weekend. Mandatory spiral sequence isn't going to work when the reigning Olympic champion ca't even pull off a half arse choreo sequence.
 

soogar

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2,648
I don't like mandatory spiral seuqences or layback spins. Everyone's body is built differently. Most of the mandatory spiral sequences were quite awful. Remember Miki Ando. Even YuNa's spiral didn't look that great either. And the spiral sequences are not really indicative of skating skills but flexibility. Either you have it or don't. That said, I think there should be an option for a spiral step sequence for those who can perform it well.
 

personwhoishere

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I'd like to see a spiral sequence as an optional alternative to a footwork sequence, but have the requirements for L4 be a lot more stringent than they were -ie both legs fully extended, maybe 75 degrees or more being a feature, clearly defined/held edges, etc- so that only skaters that can actually perform high quality ones will do so. I'm sure there are plenty of logistical reasons why this wouldn't work but this is my ideal world here :lol:
 

gkelly

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14,522
I'd like to see a spiral sequence as an optional alternative to a footwork sequence, but have the requirements for L4 be a lot more stringent than they were -ie both legs fully extended, maybe 75 degrees or more being a feature, clearly defined/held edges, etc- so that only skaters that can actually perform high quality ones will do so. I'm sure there are plenty of logistical reasons why this wouldn't work but this is my ideal world here :lol:
And I would rather see the features for higher levels in leveled spiral sequences, should they ever make a comeback, be based more on edge control and difficult edge-based skills than on flexibility. Or at least set up the rules so that it would be possible to earn level 3 or 4 with either approach or a mix of both rather than the greater emphasis on flexibility moves in the 2006-2010 rules.

Beauty of positions, of course, would be reflected in the GOEs and in the program components, especially Performance.

It is possible to have excellent extension without extreme flexibility. Paul Wylie comes to mind.
 

VGThuy

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29,446
If they were to come back, they should find a way to celebrate good line even if the position isn’t showing the most flexibility.one can have great upper body, hip positions with pointed fees and an unbroken line without needing to hit a near split.
 

personwhoishere

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2,687
And I would rather see the features for higher levels in leveled spiral sequences, should they ever make a comeback, be based more on edge control and difficult edge-based skills than on flexibility. Or at least set up the rules so that it would be possible to earn level 3 or 4 with either approach or a mix of both rather than the greater emphasis on flexibility moves in the 2006-2010 rules.

Beauty of positions, of course, would be reflected in the GOEs and in the program components, especially Performance.

It is possible to have excellent extension without extreme flexibility. Paul Wylie comes to mind.
I think I mentioned both flexibility skills and edges in my post though? :confused:
Both are features of a good spiral and both should be rewarded equally IMO. Also full extension was the first thing I mentioned, which is absolutely separate from "extreme flexibility". I just don't want to see ugly bent knee spirals!
 

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