Gymnastics News #23: Defying Gravity

[Theatregirl1122]

I feel like I would happily pay like $5 to watch, but $15 is too much for one event.

 

[Karen-W]

I feel like I would happily pay like $5 to watch, but $15 is too much for one event.

Lol - it's no Lombardia Trophy!

 

[just tuned in]

USAToday is posting live updates.

Simone Biles qualifies for US gymnastics worlds team at selection camp

Simone won the all-around competition on the first day of U.S. selection camp and locked in a spot on the world gymnastics championship team.

www.usatoday.com

Live scores:

MyUSAGym

myusagym.com

 

[Rob]

Seems like Simone got the automatic spot with her worst competition in her career outside of Tokyo 21. Fall on bars, OOB, rolled out of vault. Shi and Skye are likely in.

We could send 10 different vaulters, but its all over the place with the other events.

 

[Karen-W]

Seems like Simone got the automatic spot with her worst competition in her career outside of Tokyo 21. Fall on bars, OOB, rolled out of vault. Shi and Skye are likely in.

We could send 10 different vaulters, but its all over the place with the other events.

Leanne also seems to be a no-brainer, and the more I look at it, so does Joscelyn.

Top 5 total scores - Biles, Jones, Roberson, Blakely, Wong
Top 5 vault scores - Carey, Roberson, Biles, Wong, Sumanasekera
Top 5 floor scores - Biles, Roberson, Lincoln, DiCello, Jones
Top 5 beam scores - Blakely, Jones, Biles, Lincoln, DiCello
Top 5 bars scores - Blakely, Chiles, Wong, Matthews, Zeiss

Simone & Shi are the only two who have top 5 scores in 3 events

Jones, Roberson, Wong, Lincoln & DiCello have top 5 scores in 2 events, but what sets Wong apart from Lincoln & DiCello is that one of hers is in Bars - only Blakely and Wong of the top 5 total scores have a top 5 bars score. Wong fills a hole there, and she had a solid vault score also.

Lincoln & DiCello have top 2 in beam & floor, but they aren't necessary or better on beam than Biles, Jones and Blakely, and Roberson has a floor score that is comparable, plus a great vault score.

 

[Rob]

"Simone & Shi (should be Skye) are the only two who have top 5 scores in 3 events."
"Top 5 bars scores - Miller, Blakely, Chiles, Wong, Matthews, (not Zeiss)"

Shi must have had something happen on UB because she'd usually be 14s or close. The only other UB scorers are Miller and Chiles. Miller isn't adding elsewhere at all. Chiles hasn't gotten it together on BB or FX, and others scored higher on VT. Plus, Simone typically doesn't fall off UB.

I am not a big fan of Roberson, but I agree we need the FX score and she adds tenths on VT (but she can't go near bars/beam in Team Final). Agree on Wong - and she's been pretty consistent. I'd go Biles, Jones, Blakely, Wong, Roberson. Alt Lincoln (beats DiCello I think, but it is close since DiCello has more experience) or Chiles.

What is with Jade on FX? Artistry deduction or just hasn't gotten her difficulty in play?

 

[Aceon6]

What is with Jade on FX? Artistry deduction or just hasn't gotten her difficulty in play?

To my eyes, a bit of both. With Roberson likely making it, does the US need a similar potential score?

 

[VGThuy]

Seems like Simone got the automatic spot with her worst competition in her career outside of Tokyo 21. Fall on bars, OOB, rolled out of vault. Shi and Skye are likely in.

We could send 10 different vaulters, but its all over the place with the other events.

Leanne also seems to be a no-brainer, and the more I look at it, so does Joscelyn.

Top 5 total scores - Biles, Jones, Roberson, Blakely, Wong
Top 5 vault scores - Carey, Roberson, Biles, Wong, Sumanasekera
Top 5 floor scores - Biles, Roberson, Lincoln, DiCello, Jones
Top 5 beam scores - Blakely, Jones, Biles, Lincoln, DiCello
Top 5 bars scores - Blakely, Chiles, Wong, Matthews, Zeiss

Simone & Shi are the only two who have top 5 scores in 3 events

Jones, Roberson, Wong, Lincoln & DiCello have top 5 scores in 2 events, but what sets Wong apart from Lincoln & DiCello is that one of hers is in Bars - only Blakely and Wong of the top 5 total scores have a top 5 bars score. Wong fills a hole there, and she had a solid vault score also.

Lincoln & DiCello have top 2 in beam & floor, but they aren't necessary or better on beam than Biles, Jones and Blakely, and Roberson has a floor score that is comparable, plus a great vault score.

Only taking into account these scores from the Worlds Selection Event, I would have to agree. I would take Simone Biles, Shi Jones, & Skye Blakely with Josecelyn Roberson for vault and floor as she is top 3 material there and Wong for bars because, as noted by @Karen-W, Blakely and Wong are the only top 5 AAers who have a top 5 bars score - in fact, they are the only top 5 AAers who have a score in the top 7 bar scores. Wong also can be used for vault top 3 for team finals.

Looking at these scores and Nationals, my team would be Biles, Jones, Blakely, Roberson, and Wong with DiCello and Lincoln being alternates (not sure if they will have 1 or 2 traveling ones). With those gymnasts chosen, I could see the team final make up to be:

Vault - Biles, Roberson with the third slot being between Blakely/Wong. Jones is a very solid back up.
Bars - Blakely, Jones, Biles/Wong - depending.
Beam - Biles, Jones, Blakley with Wong being used only if one of the other three can't perform.
Floor - Biles, Jones, Roberson with Wong being used only if one of the other three can't perform.

DiCello and Lincoln may be more solid for beam and floor than Wong, but with bars, there's a sizable gap between Wong and DicCello and Lincoln considering all scores and Wong is a more solid vaulter. What Roberson provides on vault, bars, and floor more than makes up what her beam deficit was against DiCello and Lincoln at the Worlds selection; though Roberson outscored Lincoln on beam overall at Nationals (Lincoln's best scored 0.050 higher than Roberson's best) and DiCello two low scoring nights on beam at Nationals.

 

[alexikeguchi]

It seemed like everyone had uncharacteristic mishaps on their best events, so I don't know if this selection competition is particularly helpful. Even with the falls/breaks, Biles, Jones, Wong, and Blakely were top five here and at nationals over two nights and in my mind should be on the team. Roberson did well here but was underwhelming at US championships, and she is very vulnerable to international scoring with her pretty egregious form issues. On the other hand, Lincoln got consistently high floor scores across both competitions and realistically wouldn't be used on anything else even with a last minute injury to pretty much any other athlete. I believe that six members of the team will be named tonight, and the decision on who the alternate is will not have to be made until lineup decisions are due. So I expect these are the six athletes who will be named.

 

[Coco]

Shi got a 1.0 deduction for hitting her feet on the mat. Someone posted the routine on Facebook and with the camera angle it is not really noticeable to the naked eye. Spencer from the balance beam situation was watching live and he did not see it. There is some debate that it should have been the 0.3 deduction for brushing the mat, but who knows. If they had used the lesser deduction she would have won the meet and had the automatic berth over Simone.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I felt last night didn't really give us much info. I do think it was not a good night for Kaliya, since Joscelyn got the same floor score as her, and floor is Kaliya's only argument to be on the team. I originally thought it was a bad night for Jordan, since she was a mess on floor and beam, but her scores would have her used on both bars and vault, and she's the only option on bars who is remotely useful on any other event.

I think Simone, Shi, and Skye have been locks since nationals and Leanne was pretty close. I'd say Leanne is in now, and the 4th spot isn't super important, but I do think Joscelyn and Jordan actually helped themselves and Kaliya did not. I don't think Jade did either.

 

[danafan]

Regarding Jones on bars, the video from the feed - you cannot see the mat. Many people are assuming the judges made the wrong call but there's no video evidence either way that I've seen. It looks like she tried to connect the Pak to the Van Leeuwen but second guessed herself, going into a kip instead. The hit on mat deduction should only apply if there is a definite break in rhythm and almost always bent legs after the hit (all of the WTC video examples include that). It should definitely not be based on sound.

Now I don't know what the selection rules say regarding inquiries/protests but since this affected her D score I would think an inquiry could have been submitted and they could have gone to video review? Assuming they have an "official" video from a proper judging angle available. I didn't hear anything about this so I'm curious.

 

[Rob]

Tonight's competition has started: here is a live blog. Lets you see it once before it asks you to pay. Shi cleaned up UB and did better at BB too.

Live Blog: 2023 U.S. Women’s World Team Selection Camp - Gymnastics Now

The 2023 U.S. Women's World Team Selection Camp will feature two days of competition at Stars Gymnastics, and we'll have live coverage of both days here.

gymnastics-now.com

 

[danafan]

Sorry when I posted earlier I hadn't seen the video USAG tweeted of Jones' bars. From this IMO this it not a hit on mat. There wasn't a loss of rhythm or bent legs during it. Sorry if this was posted earlier and I missed it.

https://twitter.com/USAGym/status/1704323115382104363

 

[VGThuy]

It seemed like everyone had uncharacteristic mishaps on their best events, so I don't know if this selection competition is particularly helpful. Even with the falls/breaks, Biles, Jones, Wong, and Blakely were top five here and at nationals over two nights and in my mind should be on the team. Roberson did well here but was underwhelming at US championships, and she is very vulnerable to international scoring with her pretty egregious form issues. On the other hand, Lincoln got consistently high floor scores across both competitions and realistically wouldn't be used on anything else even with a last minute injury to pretty much any other athlete. I believe that six members of the team will be named tonight, and the decision on who the alternate is will not have to be made until lineup decisions are due. So I expect these are the six athletes who will be named.

At Nationals, Roberson did place 7th in the AA over DiCello and Lincoln and won vault. Using nationals scoring only, between Lincoln and Roberson, there was a range of 0.450-0.750 score difference in Roberson’s favor on vault and 0.750-1.050 difference difference in Lincoln’s favor on floor. But given the make up of the team, we may not even use Lincoln on floor given what the other members could score on floor while we could potentially use Roberson on vault.

Now with Chiles, arguably, the team could benefit with her bars score over what Roberson could bring on vault, but that’s if they use Jordan since she did score low on day 2 of nationals there, and Roberson has outscored Chiles at every beam event between Nationals and day 1 here. Chiles and Roberson pretty much tied on floor, though Chiles’ highest FX score did score 0.250 higher than Roberson’s there. However, Chiles had a bad floor here and Roberson matched Jordan’s highest FX score at nationals and seems to be a more solid back up if she needs to step in there.

Day 2 will really let us know.

 

[just tuned in]

Roberson not my cup of tea. I wonder what is going on with Chiles.

 

[bardtoob]

Well, it looks like Day 1 Simone had a disastrous bar set, and did much better Day 2.

It looks like Jordan had problems on Day 1 beam, and it looks like a pretty unfortunate error. Day 2 looks better but the low score must indicated some loss of connections or low execution, which is obvious in the sense that there are times when she looks like she is doing individual skills in the section after the side sommersault.

Roberson has some extreme characteristics. I think she will be very reliable but the judges will be hard on her in execution. On the other hand, I think it is good that the days of selecting based on the "international look" are gone.

 

[Coco]

My theory on Chiles' day 2 beam is that she didn't get credit for a leap series. Balance Beam situation has quick hits and mentions a pause.

ETA, same as Shi's day 1 UB, that blogger didn't understand Jordan's day 2 beam score.

 

[Rob]

It’s Biles, Blakely, Jones, Roberson, Wong with DiCello as Alternate.

 

[barbk]

Looking at these scores and Nationals, my team would be Biles, Jones, Blakely, Roberson, and Wong with DiCello and Lincoln being alternates (not sure if they will have 1 or 2 traveling ones). With those gymnasts chosen, I could see the team final make up to be:

Nailed it. Care to suggest lotto numbers?

 

[just tuned in]

It’s Biles, Blakely, Jones, Roberson, Wong with DiCello as Alternate.

So, the top five in the AA.

 

[alexikeguchi]

I really don't understand the persistence of this selection camp process after the Karolyi years. I think two nights of all around competition at the high stakes national championships should be enough to determine who is competition ready and has appropriate level of difficulty/execution to succeed internationally. Obviously, the squad will continue to train between nationals and worlds, so an athlete who sustains an injury, illness, or unfortunately timed bout of the twisties late in the process can still be replaced by an alternate.

 

[Aceon6]

I’m of two minds on the camp. I’d like to see the top 2 all around and the top apparatus people exempt. Like really exempt as in “you are NOT required to be here and your absence will not impact your selection.” Then have the rest of the people show up to see if they can better their Nationals performances, see how they would fit with the people who’ve locked a spot, and see who the best alternate choice might be.

 

[VGThuy]

I think it's because gymnastics seems to be a more volatile sport in terms of athlete readiness, and they like having more, rather than less, discretion in choosing the team. However, as we've seen in the Karyoli years, a lot of of that volatility was because of burnout and injuries that were happening because this camp system got out-of-control with the rate of mandatory participation. It led to a culture where the athletes felt as though they had to be "on" and impress Marta all the time with little relief or breaks.

Not to mention that it was another tool available for Marta to play her mind games to "test" mental strength and "consistency". Often, by the end of the never-ending selection process, Marta and Co. had to choose from a small pool of the least broken athletes for the teams. I think things got slightly better in that regard by 2011, but not ideal and still harmful. On top of this, we know there were many other things going on behind the scenes harming the athletes.

 

[Coco]

Similar to skating, the federation and "TPTB" have their favorites who they want to support based on their potential. So in gymnastics, these selection processes allow them to protect those favorites if necessary.

But usually, as in skating, this protection comes directly from the judges. They can't even help themselves...smh.

What's going on in USA Gymnastics now seems to be a pushback against Martha's methods, not exactly because they were harmful but because ... what exactly? Why this love of using the top AAers even if they don't make up the highest scoring team? I don't get it.

 

[beckab81]

While it was the top 5 AA, it also was the team that gives the most opportunities for individual medals as well as coverage for bars. I was more surprised by DiCello as the alternate than anything else.

With camp, I'm on the fence. The US women don't tend to compete very much, so there can be a benefit to extra competition settings. It also is beneficial for athletes who are trying to peak at worlds, but might have been a little less ready at Nationals. The environment sounds much less toxic than in prior years, so hopefully they are getting some benefit out of it.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

So, the top five in the AA.

Yes, but I think that’s a coincidence in this case? I was certainly not just thinking too 5 AA, but this is still the team I came away with. I don’t think they should make a team that is less good mathematically to avoid top 5 AA.

 

[Coco]

To grow the sport, though, they really need to make these events more accessible. I mean, there's a gazillion schools that can put on meets every weekend. This event wasn't on a podium, so it's not required. They could have put it somewhere that seating would have been allowed. (I'm assuming it was in a closed gym.)

 

[her grace]

I would’ve been fine with Miller in place of Wong. I think she adds more on bars, but I understand USAG wants a more conservative approach (more back-ups in case of injury) and, of course, Wong has impressive stability.

 

[bardtoob]

Chellsie Memmel Reacts to Day 1 World Team Trials 2023

The FIG has confirmed they will value Simone Biles' Yurchenko double pike vault as a 6.4 difficulty. Chellsie shares her thoughts on the scoring, what the te...

www.youtube.com