Gymnastic news #22 - Tokyo or bust

Lara

It's JJ style!
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18,193
It really amazes me how gymnasts can be doing these detailed high risk moves on one apparatus while floor music is blaring in the background for some other athlete and the crowd cheers at random intervals. I don't know how anyone stays on the balance beam or the uneven bars.
I believe many gymnasts say they just don’t hear it. I have no idea how they can be that focused either!
 

HeatherC

Proud fan of K&O and Team SW Florida! =)
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11,204
Watching the Atlanta ladies team final tonight. I've been loving these old broadcasts and seeing some familiar faces again. It's also interesting seeing the difference in routines between then and now.
I LOVED watching that tonight! The Mag 7 remains one of my all time favorite teams and watching that coverage without all the dramatic fluff pieces was such a treat. Highlights: Lilia P.'s FX, Shannon Miller's beam, Moceanu and Dawes FX, Amanda Bordan's beam, Kerri's vault, all of them on UB (especially Amy Chow).....that was such an awesome competition for Team USA. I think some of those routines and elements would hold up in the current code (I know some of those tumbling passes are being done by current gymnasts). I have a hunch that Amy Chow's bar routine would hold up very well! :cheer:
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
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32,173
I could have done without hearing that hideous hatchet editing job on "Hooked on America" again. The drill team I used to perform with had a signature routine we did to the FULL version of that music. It hurts my ears to hear the edit job done by someone with no clue about musical continuity.
For some reason, the Romanian coaches/choreographers feel that they have to give one of their gymnasts some cheesy American music when there's an Olympics in the U.S. I'm thinking Szabo in 1984 and then Milo in 1996. It's kind of amusing to me in a nostalgic and mismatched kinda way.

It really amazes me how gymnasts can be doing these detailed high risk moves on one apparatus while floor music is blaring in the background for some other athlete and the crowd cheers at random intervals. I don't know how anyone stays on the balance beam or the uneven bars.
I'm from New Orleans and I love New Orleans music, but reading your post reminded me of 1991 Worlds. Shannon Miller had some wretched version of the Bourbon Street music and it was so obnoxious, pounding and totally not her style whatsoever. I always felt bad for any gymnast who competed while that music was playing, especially on beam.

I LOVED watching that tonight! The Mag 7 remains one of my all time favorite teams and watching that coverage without all the dramatic fluff pieces was such a treat. Highlights: Lilia P.'s FX, Shannon Miller's beam, Moceanu and Dawes FX, Amanda Bordan's beam, Kerri's vault, all of them on UB (especially Amy Chow).....that was such an awesome competition for Team USA. I think some of those routines and elements would hold up in the current code (I know some of those tumbling passes are being done by current gymnasts). I have a hunch that Amy Chow's bar routine would hold up very well! :cheer:
Mo Huilan's bars routine would hold up well in the current code. Lots of tricky low to high bar transitions:


ETA: and Shannon Miller will always be one of the best beam workers ever.
I always loved this Mag 7 Today Show 20-year retrospective interview aired before the 2016 Olympics. They have so much respect for one another. I also saw clearly why Amanda Borden was chosen as team captain. I love her so much. I love this part in the interview where she speaks up for Amy Chow's bars and the whole team agrees with her about how it can "still hang" in 2016. Chow is usually so humble that it was great to see Borden speak up and celebrate her.

 

Dobre

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7,509
I've always thought that the total silence was more nerve-racking for the athletes on beam than the music. When the music stops, it feels more like all eyes are on the athlete on the beam.
 

Karina1974

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3,137
For some reason, the Romanian coaches/choreographers feel that they have to give one of their gymnasts some cheesy American music when there's an Olympics in the U.S. I'm thinking Szabo in 1984 and then Milo in 1996. It's kind of amusing to me in a nostalgic and mismatched kinda way.



I'm from New Orleans and I love New Orleans music, but reading your post reminded me of 1991 Worlds. Shannon Miller had some wretched version of the Bourbon Street music and it was so obnoxious, pounding and totally not her style whatsoever. I always felt bad for any gymnast who competed while that music was playing, especially on beam.





I always loved this Mag 7 Today Show 20-year retrospective interview aired before the 2016 Olympics. They have so much respect for one another. I also saw clearly why Amanda Borden was chosen as team captain. I love her so much. I love this part in the interview where she speaks up for Amy Chow's bars and the whole team agrees with her about how it can "still hang" in 2016. Chow is usually so humble that it was great to see Borden speak up and celebrate her.


Szabo and Milo used the same piece of music. But Szabo had far and away the better edit job.

1984 Szabo Floor EF

Funny, I was thinking about that 2016 documentary piece as I was watching the Mag 7 last night, that I might want to watch that again. Thankfully I transferred all my gymnastics VHS over to DVD last year so I won't have any trouble finding it!

This was a treat last night. I recorded the Mag 7 and also the 1988 AA final. I have everything else they showed. I hope they show more classics like this. I wanted to see some clips from 1992.
 
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ross_hy

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723
There are several things about the Magnificent 7 that are so impressive to me. With no previous team gold medals at the Olympics or Worlds, the pressure on them had to be massive. With no qualification round, they didn't have a chance to get their nerves out early. With 30,000 people in the stands, the crowd noise was like nothing they've experienced before (and that no gymnast has since). What a moment--no wonder they toured for 2 years.
 

Loves_Shizuka

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19,530
My favourite gymnasts in Atlanta were Mo Huilan and Dominique Dawes. That they don't have any World or Olympic AA medals between them still gives me sadness :( And "only" two individual Olympic medals. Such underachievers, but they just couldn't put it together at the big moments.

I know Shushunova vs Silivas dominates chat about 1988, and rightly so, but Boginskaya is my favourite from Seoul. That Carmen FX is iconic :glamor:


...I so much prefer the sport in that era than today :blah:
 

canbelto

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Silivas vs. Shushonova, Miller vs. Gutsu or Nastia vs. Shawn? All still contested between fans.
 

Karina1974

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There are several things about the Magnificent 7 that are so impressive to me. With no previous team gold medals at the Olympics or Worlds, the pressure on them had to be massive. With no qualification round, they didn't have a chance to get their nerves out early. With 30,000 people in the stands, the crowd noise was like nothing they've experienced before (and that no gymnast has since). What a moment--no wonder they toured for 2 years.
They did have a, qualification round. It was called "Compulsories." 1996 was the last year that compulsories were competed.

Also keep in mind that 3 of them were returning Olympians. Shannon Miller had also competed at 1991 Worlds, which was held in the US.
 

Stephanie

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2,096
They did have a, qualification round. It was called "Compulsories." 1996 was the last year that compulsories were competed.

Also keep in mind that 3 of them were returning Olympians. Shannon Miller had also competed at 1991 Worlds, which was held in the US.
The scores from compulsories were combined with optional (team final) scores to determine the overall results, so I wouldn't call compulsories a qualification round.
 

Dobre

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Scores in compulsories counted so the pressure was very much there on everyone who competed them.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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ETA: IOC BLOCKED
ETA: Cuts to the scene after the infamous balance beam scoring when Bela has his melt down.

I am starting to form this probably controversial opinion that Kim, Shaposhnikova, and Filatova were intended to represent the Soviets in the AA, but all three underpreformed. Filatova was the Tatiana Gutsu and Davydova was the Roza Galieva of the group, so to speak, but Davydova was not replaced.

However, the politics get most interesting when realizing that Maxi Gnauck of East Germany was the leader after Team Compulsories and Team Opionals. They essentially disadvantaged Nadia (4th) for the fall in Preliminaries while giving no advantage to Maxi (1st), which lead to them sharing the AA Silver. Davydova was 5th in Preliminaries and came from behind to win.

Politically, I do think Nadia wuz robbed, but, first and foremost, it is possible that Maxi was plain WUZ ROBBED.

-------------
Feel free to correct me, but I see a full twisting double back and a triple twist from Maxi, which mutes that much more dangerous but not necessarily more difficult first tumbling pass of Davyova's floor.
 
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canbelto

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I used to love the compulsories. It was interesting to see how different gymnasts performed the same routine.

And they weren't necessarily "easy." For instance the 1996 beam routine had a lot of tricky transitions and connections.

 

Tesla

Whippet Good
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I was expecting to find something different, especially when Laurie is generally such a positive force. Stunned.
I know. I don't think I can ever rewatch performances from the 2012 and 2016 Olympics knowing how horribly all of those girls and young women were abused. :(
 

ilovepaydays

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10,590
I know. I don't think I can ever rewatch performances from the 2012 and 2016 Olympics knowing how horribly all of those girls and young women were abused. :(
Honestly, I really can’t - especially 2012 - and the Olympic Channel has been replaying the 2012 & 2016 gymnastics competitions this past week.
 

VGThuy

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32,173
If we sit and just think about the culture of abuse in this sport, it's really hard to watch any of it. We know reports of widespread abuse everywhere from the "golden age" on and I think for a while, it was so normalized that gym fans would often "joke" about it because it seemed to come with the territory. Now that the athletes are coming forward and opening up about the trauma, it's like being hit with a splash of reality. The whole Nassar mess knocked the doors down, and now other stuff is being taken a lot more seriously than it was in the past. I hope the gymnasts who've suffered can get some peace that they are ushering in a better and healthier community of gymnastics...hopefully. I know it's hard to be optimistic about such things, but this sort of suspension that seemingly made Laurie happy as she called it a "positive result" is step in the right direction. It'll never make up for what happened, but it'd be nice to watch gymnastics in the future and not feel that tinge of guilt by indirectly/directly supporting a worldwide horrific culture of abuse and exploitation.
 

Erin

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9,750
Honestly, I really can’t - especially 2012 - and the Olympic Channel has been replaying the 2012 & 2016 gymnastics competitions this past week.
The sad thing is that I thought at the time that things had changed and gotten better by the time 2012 rolled around. After watching so many teams seem completely beaten up and burned out by the time the Olympics rolled around, the 2012 team seemed happy (and while not completely healthy, not as much like the walking wounded). It’s sad to think what was really going on.

I’m happy to see the complaints about Haney were taken seriously, and I hope this response sends a message. She is far from the only coach out there doing it and I hope other gymnasts will be willing to come forward and that coaches will realize they need to change their behaviour.
 

clairecloutier

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10,637
It’s just hard to believe that such an awful environment of verbal, emotional, and physical abuse grew around a sport involving such young competitors. I cannot imagine how any adult in their right mind could ever feel it was okay to yell at and belittle and mock and break children the way that Haney and Geddert and Li all did. And pressuring the girls to train when obviously injured and in pain. That is little short of torture, and again, how could any sane adult think it was okay? I could understand pushing through an injury at a huge event like the Olympics, but it should not be something athletes had to do every day. The whole thing is really quite shocking and obviously was a kind of continually reinforcing culture of abuse built up over many years. :(
 

Rob

Beach Bum
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14,816
When I was reading the allegations and Laurie’s account, it reminded me of ballet academy in the 70s. Fat shaming, pressured into dancing injured, being yelled at, all the same.
 

floskate

Vacant
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When I was reading the allegations and Laurie’s account, it reminded me of ballet academy in the 70s. Fat shaming, pressured into dancing injured, being yelled at, all the same.
Yep me too and it's still going on today in many dance and performing arts school that I know of. When I worked as a singing teacher in a dance school, singing as a subject would often provide the catalyst for students to break down. Invariably it wasn't the singing that made them cry it was whatever humiliation, verbal abuse, emotional abuse they had just had meted out to them in their last dance class. Staff room full of teachers laughing at stories of dancers crying or making fun someone because they'd gained weight. I, as a member of staff, was fat shamed many times by my peers and my boss. Having suffered myself at the hands of abusive teachers, I found the whole thing repulsive and ultimately unbearable (I ended up having a complete mental breakdown), but my complaints fell on deaf ears almost all the time. Once I had a girl relate to me that she had just been told to literally starve herself for AT LEAST 48 hours to shock their body into losing weight. Most people will read this and be aghast, but this was my normal for so many years (and 25 years after I graduated from drama school, I am STILL in therapy)!
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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I was trained in the performing arts for 15 years, and I can think of a few instances when teachers were removed from high performance programs because of their methods. I also endured my share of nasty teachers.

I do think it is a good thing to get frank honest assessments of the quality of your work and tangible feedback about how you can improve, including being told that your work is not currently marketable.

It is not acceptable to get results with coercion, manipulation, or abuse. It is wrong to use various forms of quid pro quo.

Also, if you are actually a good teacher or expert, you never have to reference the "it" factor.
 
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FiveRinger

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6,365
It's horrible. Every one of the gymnasts from the 2012 and 2016 American women's gymnastics teams has reported abuse. I'm thinking about that as a former victim and I can only cry for them. These girls have lived thru their own personal hells, and at what cost? Medals and international glory are not worth your mental and physical well-being. I can't help it, but the abuse is how I associate these games when I see them rebroadcast. I don't want that for them.

The punishment for Haney is significant. Two Olympic cycles and probation afterwards. Her coaching career is over. I've read some pretty narcissistic accounts about her behavior at meets, in interviews, and her attitude about herself in relation to her athletes. I read her gym rules that were leaked and posted on the internet. I'm hesitant to say that a lot of it may be typical, especially when you compare it to the behavior and accounts we've all heard about the Karolyis. She was well aware of the control and influence she had over her gymnasts. She took advantage of her position and mistreated those girls. That's the classic definition of abuse. She should consider herself lucky that there were no criminal charges.

Haney is just the first of many coaches who are going to be shown the door. I'm not mad about it.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Haney was coaching her own daughter? Part of the ruling said that she could not attend USA Gymnastics sanctioned events unless she was taking her daughter, so it makes me wonder.
 

Weve3

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3,060
Another article about Maggie Haney:

Haney suspended for 8 years... uh, no. Try a lifetime ban.

It’s disgusting, absolutely disgusting, but no one has enraged me more than the Károlyis and that pile of inexcusable bull💩. 😡 I’ve despised them for years ... years!
 
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