French Short Programs at the 1992 Olympics, who wins? Surya Vs Laetitia

[bardtoob]

Surya Bonaly (FRA) - 1992 Albertville, Ladies' Original Program

Laetitia Hubert (FRA) - 1992 Albertville, Ladies' Original Program

Surya had harder technical content, but double footed the 3Lz-2T.

Laetitia had the better skating skills and was clean, but did the 3Lp-2T.

The judges placed Surya 3rd and Laetitia 5th, but who do you think was better?

Why? Which ever criteria, the 6.0 system and/or the IJS.

 

[alj5]

Under 6.0, Surya. Under IJS, it would be Laetitia.

 

[David21]

Surya's combo wasn't double footed, but the lutz was about 1/3 turn cheated.

 

[briancoogaert]

Surya's combo wasn't double footed, but the lutz was about 1/3 turn cheated.

I agree. But her 2Axel was very tight IIRC.

IMO, Laetitia Hubert should have been ahead. Better edges, better speed, and her jumps were so clean !

 

[slipchuk]

Honestly I would have had the results 3-7 in the short program in Albertville almost completely switched. The judges had it like this:

3. Bonaly
4. Ito
5. Hubert
6. Harding
7. Sato

I had it like this:

3. Sato- clearly 3rd for me
4. Hubert
5. Harding
6. Ito
7. Bonaly

Bonaly's jumps werent particularly good in this skate, and at this point in her career she didnt really have anything else. Whether it was two footed or not the lutz was not really cleanly done or well landed. The double axel was also shaky. Her basic skating and artistry was the worst of the top 10 or maybe top 12 women.

Sato and Hubert did triple loop combos but skated impeccably with tons of speed, with Sato having the polish and overall quality in her skating that Hubert lacks. Ito and Harding both fell but Harding fell on a triple axel combo attempt and Ito a mere triple lutz attempt so I dont really see any reason Ito should be ahead, especialy as the rest of the skating in their programs was pretty comparable IMO.

 

[Seerek]

Vanessa Riley's vote goes to Yuka Sato, followed by the flower kids in their Olympic Ring colours getups (Annick Dumont isn't impressed by them, which is why she pushes them aside).

 

[meggonzo]

The video of Laeticia is no longer available.

 

[Vagabond]

Try clearing your cache or using another browser. It's still available.

 

[alchemy void]

Vanessa Riley's vote goes to Yuka Sato, followed by the flower kids in their Olympic Ring colours getups (Annick Dumont isn't impressed by them, which is why she pushes them aside).

Annick shoving the flower kids out of the way totally deserves it's own link! One of my all-time favorite kiss and cry moments. Brilliant commentary, too.

 

[meggonzo]

Try clearing your cache or using another browser. It's still available.

Thanks! It wouldn't work in the YouTube app on my phone. It worked fine in Chrome on my laptop. weird.

Someone in the comments said that Yuka's skating was similar to Surya. um no. just no.

 

[alchemy void]

Even as a big Surya fan, I'd have to say Laetitia definitely deserved to be placed over Bonaly here, regardless if you're looking at this through a 6.0 or IJS lens.

Surya's skating and presentation really took a big leap forward the following season, but she was still quite unrefined and slow here. The jumps, which were her strength, weren't of great quality. The less said about the other elements, the better.

Laetitia's SP performance is one of the most genuinely exuberant and fun programs of all time. So much speed, engagement with the crowd, secure jumps, fantastic 6.0 footwork, and the spins weren't even as dreadful as they would be later in her career.

I think the only advantage Surya really had here was attempting a lutz, and Laetitia only a loop. But the poor quality of Surya's and high quality of Laetitia's largely negates that.

The Olympics SP Surya was robbed in was 1998. I can't think of any justification *in 6.0* for putting her behind Slutskaya or Chen.

 

[meggonzo]

I re-watched Chen Lu's SP from 92 as well, and 11th place seems low. She had a step-out on the double flip and just a forward landing on the double axel, but Surya's double axel was no better. I don't know if she got nailed on a spin or something else? I'd have to re-watch some of the other ladies in front of her to see what they did.

 

[slipchuk]

Chen's placing was about right IMO. She was not considered a top tier senior skater yet, she won the bronze at worlds since Ito and some other veterans didnt go, and everyone was tired and flat from the Olympics. So with any kind of mistake she would drop a lot of spots and likely did here. She wasnt an artistic skater yet, particularly not her short program which was a weird mash of Beetlejuice and Ghost (LOL). 8th and 9th place were Kulovana and Torp Lind were clean, and Chouinard who was 10th had a similar mistake but on her triple lutz instead, but the deduction would be identical. Had Chen not stepped out of the double flip I am pretty sure she would have been 5th (over Hubert) or even 4th (over Ito) in the short. Preston who had a controversial marking in her short in 12th arguably could have been higher too.

IMO Sato clearly should have beaten Hubert in the short, so all I will say is if Hubert belonged ahead of Bonaly, Sato did too. And Sato was 7th in the actual short to Bonaly's 3rd. And I still see no reason on merit for Ito to have been higher than Harding that day either. Really the placements from 3-7 could all be debated, and I guess the placements from 8-12 in a seperate sub section below those, with Preston who landed a triple flip that some judges wrongly called 2 footed at the bottom of that group in 12th. The only clear ones are 1st and 2nd, and even here some I heard who think Kerrigan had the best short and should have won the short program over Yamaguchi.

 

[slipchuk]

Chen's placing was about right IMO. She was not considered a top tier senior skater yet, she won the bronze at worlds since Ito and some other veterans didnt go, and everyone was tired and flat from the Olympics. So with any kind of mistake she would drop a lot of spots and likely did here. She wasnt an artistic skater yet, particularly not her short program which was a weird mash of Beetlejuice and Ghost (LOL). 8th and 9th place were Kulovana and Torp Lind were clean, and Chouinard who was 10th had a similar mistake but on her triple lutz instead, but the deduction would be identical. Had Chen not stepped out of the double flip I am pretty sure she would have been 5th (over Hubert) or even 4th (over Ito) in the short. Preston who had a controversial marking in her short in 12th arguably could have been higher too.

IMO Sato clearly should have beaten Hubert in the short, so all I will say is if Hubert belonged ahead of Bonaly, Sato did too. And Sato was 7th in the actual short to Bonaly's 3rd. And I still see no reason on merit for Ito to have been higher than Harding that day either. Really the placements from 3-7 could all be debated, and I guess the placements from 8-12 in a seperate sub section below those, with Preston who landed a triple flip that some judges wrongly called 2 footed at the bottom of that group in 12th. The only clear ones are 1st and 2nd, and even here some I heard who think Kerrigan had the best short and should have won the short program over Yamaguchi.

 

[briancoogaert]

And I still see no reason on merit for Ito to have been higher than Harding that day either.

Explanations of french commentators : Harding didn't try any combo, while Ito had a 2Toe after her fall. And Harding's sit positions in her spins were not sitted enough

Anyway, more than that, I think the fact that Harding would have been the 3rd amercian after the SP, and Ito 1st japanese made a difference too.

 

[Clay]

I vote for Surya's snot in the Kiss n Cry.

 

[meggonzo]

I vote for Surya's snot in the Kiss n Cry.

Haha, that was the long program though.

 

[gkelly]

The Olympics SP Surya was robbed in was 1998. I can't think of any justification *in 6.0* for putting her behind Slutskaya or Chen.

I could. But that would be fodder for a different thread.

 

[alchemy void]

I could. But that would be fodder for a different thread.

You’re no fun.

I vote for Surya's snot in the Kiss n Cry.

I was very upset you replaced your Kötting avatar, but Mama Bonaly is an acceptable replacement.