Would the performances of Evgenia Medvedeva in Pyeongcheng have won all other Olympics?

[savchenkoboss]

Medvedeva is going to be so good at figures - she will be doing them while pretending to skip or reacting to a phone call or gasping... and most importantly, putting her arm over her head

Back then it didnt even really matter how good you were at figures, until you were atleast 18 and had been to a few worlds you would be placed down in them. If you were from a super strong fed. which I guess the Russian would qualify as, that might be fasttracked a tiny bit. Newcomers didnt win worlds and Olympics at 15 like today in the figures era though, just never happened.

 

[berthesghost]

I’m pretty sure Carol Heiss won worlds at 15, and of course Henie won her first at 14.

I know people point to Baiul, Kwan and Lipinski as examples of how it all changed, but the first two non-figures worlds were won by Kristi at 19 and 20 iirc

 

[bardtoob]

The whole idea that Medvedeva woulda coulda competed with Trixie Schuba in figures is ... Even if Medvedeva could do figures at all! ... Does Medvedeva even leave a tracing when she comes down from a 3/3?

 

[giselle23]

I think she loses to Sonja Henie, Jeannette Altwegg, Barbara Ann Scott, Sjouke Dijkstra,Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Trixi Schuba, Dorothy Hamill, Annet Poetsch, Katarina Witt (twice). I think she loses to Kristi Yamaguchi in '92--5.9/5.8 to Kristi's 5.8/5.9. I also think she gets bronze after Midori Ito. I think it unlikely that Med wins under 6.0 scoring. Her short program didn't meet the required elements--no spiral sequence, for instance. She might have placed fourth in the SP and first in the LP in 1994. So maybe she would have won that year (assuming the placements of the other skaters stay the same). She loses to Tara Lipinski (no scream). I don't think she wins in 2002. Either Sarah Hughes beats her under 6.0 scoring or Med wins the long and Irina wins the gold. She beats Shizuka Arakawa. She shouldn't beat Kim in 2010 but might, because of her higher tech. I think Sot beats her in 2014--nothing was stopping that train.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I hear that Trixi Schuba had a quadruple salchow, but just never felt the need to include it in competition.

 

[manhn]

I don't think Med could do well skating outdoors. Instead of raising her arm over her head, she would be shielding her eyes from the sun with her hands.

 

[Japanfan]

If Medvedeva were a non Russian I would agree she never beat Sotnikova in 2014, and probably winds up 4th and off the podium behind Kim and Kostner, and 5th in the Lp behind Asada. The fact is she is also Russian, just like Sotnikova, so unlike any other women in the whole event would be allowed into a fair fight with Sotnikova.

I was so disgusted by the home-cooked judging in Sochi that I paid little attention to the ladies competition.

But, I do think that if the judging were fair, Kim would beat Medvedeva, despite her backloading.

I was never a Yuna fan but her skating was very ethereal, and the way she moved her fortunately-long limbs was fluid and mesmerizing. In contrast, Med just checks off the boxes. To be fair she is an enthusiastic and committed skater. But, that doesn't put her on par with Yuna. IMO Yuna was a superior skater, belonging to a small group that includes the likes of Kwan and Fleming.

As to Med versus Sot, my sense is that Med has it hands down.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

There is no doubt Medvedeva and her team designed programs to win, and she had the technical content to back that mindset up. I did feel at times, she skated like someone who was told what to do, more than feeling the actual performance.

 

[berthesghost]

I never get how people try to apply logic to fantasy situations when the reality is almost inexplicable. How does Med outskate Oksana to win when Nancy clearly outskated her and lost? How does YuNa’s superior presentation win over Med’s when it couldn’t Sot’s?

 

[savchenkoboss]

I never get how people try to apply logic to fantasy situations when the reality is almost inexplicable. How does Med outskate Oksana to win when Nancy clearly outskated her and lost? How does YuNa’s superior presentation win over Med’s when it couldn’t Sot’s?

The 2010 Olympics were not in Russia. Obviously Sotnikova would have never beaten Kim at the 2010 Olympics, and probably wouldnt have even come close.

 

[bardtoob]

In 2014 Lipnitskaya still dominated Medvedeva within Eteri's group, and I think Lipnitskaya would have willed herself to gold just to still dominate Eteri's group.

 

[giselle23]

The 2010 Olympics were not in Russia. Obviously Sotnikova would have never beaten Kim at the 2010 Olympics, and probably wouldnt have even come close.

I thought the subject was whether Med would have beaten Kim in 2010, not Sot. The rules were different in 2010. For instance, there was a required spiral sequence. Med in all likelihood would not have won in 2010 with her 2018 programs because they didn't fit with the requirements at the time. (I am sorry I entered into this pointless discussion, which asks to compare things that are not comparable).

 

[savchenkoboss]

I thought the subject was whether Med would have beaten Kim in 2010, not Sot. The rules were different in 2010. For instance, there was a required spiral sequence. Med in all likelihood would not have won in 2010 with her 2018 programs because they didn't fit with the requirements at the time. (I am sorry I entered into this pointless discussion, which asks to compare things that are not comparable).

I agree, notice I did not vote for Medvedeva winning in 2010. My vote was the second option.

I was just saying Sotnikova's winning over Kim does not translate to any year besides 2014, as the only place that would have happened with the exact same skates is Russia.

As for Baiul winning over Kerrigan, honestly I had both Sato and Chen both beating Kerrigan and Baiul in the long program atleast. And Kerrigan had so many gifts in her career, it is hard for me to feel bad about her being arguably robbed just once. She is after all the very skater another skater arranged a historic hit on based on perceived favortism.

 

[Coco]

I hope at some point people can see Sotnikova's skating without a filter of any kind. She's not Peggy Fleming, but she belonged on that podium.

Base Value of Jumps, using 2007-2010 values, and then I really have to finish an application!

Kim
10+5.5+6.3+7.5+4.95+6.6+3.85=44.7

Med's 2018 Olympic FS, 2010 Scale of Values
=9.6+6+5.83+5.61+6.49+9.57+3.63=46.73

It's not really a fair comparison, though, because if skaters could still do more than two double axels, you know Eteri would have her skaters doing a 3-3-3, another 3-3, then three double axels (one in combination), triple and triple. It's not like this jump list would have been impossible for Med, she's done harder in practice.

So if she had pulled something like that off, she would have had a 5.88 advantage in jumps alone.

Kim built up her PCS advantage at a time when the only skater with comparable speed who had a prayer of landing 10 triples in the course of a competition was Miki Ando. Rochette did 7 in the FS, but only 2 in the SP.

It's not clear that if she was 5 years younger, and a first year senior in 2015, that she would have been rewarded in the same way.

 

[Japanfan]

And Kerrigan had so many gifts in her career, it is hard for me to feel bad about her being arguably robbed just once.

I wasn't following FS closely until after '94 so really have no opinion about Kerrigan verus Baiul (sp?). I've read the debates and understand both POVs. I do agree that Baiul was delightful and mesmerizing in her FP, FWIW. Not saying that she should have got the gold, however.

She is after all the very skater another skater arranged a historic hit on based on perceived favortism.

Bold mine.

IMO, in saying 'after all', you sort of justify the perception, and the attack.

If Nancy was favored - I have no opinion on that - she is by no means the first skater to benefit from that, nor the last.