ESPN Article: Concussions a concern in non-contact sports

[eurodance2001]

Very interesting article regarding concussions; I had no idea Ashley suffered from multiple concussions like this.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_...are-concussion-concerns-roundtable-discussion

 

[Enchanted]

Thanks for posting!

An interesting article to read. I hope that coaches, federations and of course the skaters themselves will take time to educate themselves about concussions. It seems they are happening quite often and have a very profound impact on the life of its victims.

It's also good that the skaters who have suffered concussion(s) are speaking about their experiences more and more openly.

 

[aftershocks]

OMG Such denial and lack of attention paid to serious head trauma (in each of these three cases)! Unbelievable that Ashley much later over the course of suffering post-trauma effects went to doctor after doctor trying to figure out what was wrong and it took her chiropractor suggesting she get a neck x-ray before it was discovered her neck vertebrae had been affected (I would assume by the whiplash effects from her original head injury???). That her physical symptoms were initially attributed to stress only, when she's an athlete who trains and competes on a regular basis is rather dumbfounding. You would think questions would have been asked that would have led to a quicker diagnosis. I understand that athletes try to deny anything serious going on, but the doctors seem just as clueless/ ignorant in many cases.

For the glory of sport!? Better safety measures, particularly during training need to be instituted, like yesterday! And I'm talking about all of these sports. Commendable of Tetrick and Scurry attempting to advocate for reforms to be instituted in their sports (bike racing and soccer), especially in the area of substitutions for athletes who suffer accidents during competition. Continuing to compete, or returning to competition prematurely is so irresponsible. The accidents Scurry and Tetrick describe are absolutely scary. But I suppose the circumstances sound more scary to older, on-the-sidelines fans than they do to young gung-ho athletes and to younger fans with devil-may-care perspectives.

Ashley certainly has always conducted herself super well and very articulately during interviews, so it is surprising to learn that she often has to pause and think about what she's going to say. The fact her cognitive abilities have been adversely and permanently affected and that she is completely aware of this is rather mind-numbing. However, I suppose Ash didn't ever plan for a career as a mathematician or scientist (despite her original aptitude and abilities). Now that she has suffered so much for her sport, please God reward Ashley with World and Olympic medals!!!

 

[Skittl1321]

I know around our rink we always talked about not "if" but "when" two injuries would happen: the send to the hospital head smack, and the split open chin from falling on a camel spin.

Not to mention all the other injuries that went around. And this was the non-elites.

It's quite scary. It baffles me that helmets aren't worn, and often openly mocked.

Ashley's condition sounds terrifying, and I doubt she is in the minority.

 

[Xela M]

Ashley...

Now that she has suffered so much for her sport, please God reward Ashley with World and Olympic medals!!!

We rarely agree, but if this happens I will kiss you!

 

[Spun Silver]

I had no idea Ashley had multiple concussions. I am glad she is speaking up about it - and I hope Arutunian and other "old school" coaches are forced (if necessary) to listen.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ It's not just Arutunian, as I don't think Ashley from the incidences she described, suffered her head injuries while training under Arutunian (original concussion in early 2000s, and then a number of falls that accumulated over the course of routine training added to the fact her original head injury was not immediately diagnosed or treated; then the tremors began during 2010-2011 season; Ashley started training with Arutunian I believe some time in 2013?). In fact, it seems that Ashley's training regimen and understanding of technique and effective training approaches has improved for the better under Arutunian (although she describes him as an old-school kind of "shake-it-off" coach, so there is still a learning curve for Arutunian and everyone else in figure skating). Ashley indicates there is more awareness among figure skating federation officials and medical support personnel. Still it seems important to immediately address more effective head-safety concerns, strategies and awareness at every training facility.

I suspect some of the excuses for not wearing protective gear have to do with changes in equilibrium that a helmet might complicate. For example, the feeling one experiences without a helmet during competition would be different so adjustments/ accommodations and understanding of that factor would be necessary to address for coaches and athletes. Still, I say wear specially-designed protective helmets (a lighter but no less protective design should be possible). Conduct studies immediately to assist athletes in all aspects of training and competition for the safest possible conditions. Are medical personnel readily available at every training rink and competition venue?

 

[Spun Silver]

^Ashley specifically described her "Russian and old school" coach as the first one who would say "you're fine, just push through it." She has to take the initiative to take care of herself. But Ashley is 24 and super tough. Not every skater can stand up to the pressure to "just keep working." So Arutunian does have some learning to do. Nobody said, either I or Ashley, that he was the only one. We heard about the same kind of thing in Mirai's TSL interview, where she said Frank would kick her off the ice for not getting up fast enough from a fall when she was in great pain (and turned out to have a stress fracture). Unless Tom Z has changed, he is another one (he used to send his skaters to compete with serious injuries). It is a whole culture.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ I already said that Arutunian and everyone quite clearly have a learning curve. I mentioned Ashley's reference to Arutunian in my previous post. Mainly I was making the distinction that Ash did not suffer the initial damaging concussion while training under Arutunian. In fact, she said the accident occurred when her coach at that time was not present. She also mentioned suffering cumulative falls since the initial head injury/ spinal trauma that haven't been helpful to her condition. The fact she is much more aware and actively involved in therapeutic care and protective strategies (and she is now speaking out) is very important and commendable. Cool that Ashley is learning a new language, which studies have indicated enhance and maintain cognitive function.

We rarely agree, but if this happens I will kiss you!

Virtual kisses welcomed and completely acceptable at any time (and especially in celebration of Ashley)!

It's not important for any of us to always agree with each other. Debate and friendly discourse, amicable disagreement, openness to understand differing points of view, ability to laugh and not take oneself and everything so seriously all the time are good things.




Although concussions and training safety measures are a serious matter that should be conscientiously addressed by TPTB.

 

[Garden Kitty]

Very powerful article. So much attention has been given to football lately, that it's easy to overlook the impact concussions an TBI can have in "no contact" sports. As a skating and cycling fan, it's scary to read about the permanent impacts on athletes in the sports I follow. Kudos to all the women involved for telling their stories and bringing attention to the issue.

 

[Carolla5501]

I keep flashing back to Hanyu skating last year after that horrid fall. The consensus on here seemed to be "he's old enough to know what he can do" but... I still think that there needs to be some type of independent review or protocol if a skater has a hard fall or crash with another skater during practice for an event. Of course the devil is in the details, what's a "hard fall"?

 

[AxelAnnie]

I would like to think that today, coaches, etc., are much better informed about head injuries than 10 years ago, or even 6 years ago. When you are tough (and I happen to be tough) you are not the best person to judge if you are ok. I have managed to walk around with broken bones.....

Heads are different though. At my barn, if you fall, and your head hits, and you can't remember what happened.......off to the hospital you go. Period!

Skating is dangerous. And, I am sure there are lots of things that can be brushed off....head injury, not so much.

 

[misskarne]

I keep flashing back to Hanyu skating last year after that horrid fall. The consensus on here seemed to be "he's old enough to know what he can do" but... I still think that there needs to be some type of independent review or protocol if a skater has a hard fall or crash with another skater during practice for an event. Of course the devil is in the details, what's a "hard fall"?

Hanyu didn't fall, he collided with Han Yan, who also clearly was concussed and actually probably looked in worse shape than Hanyu. Hanyu could spin a couple of times at least; Han couldn't even get into positions, let alone spin.

I remember copping some stick for suggesting that even if they had to physically restrain those two, they should not have skated. I think after that the ISU did come up with some kind of protocol. Something to do with the official doctor and the event referee.

The scary part was seeing a lot of the Hanyu fans immediately start fetishising it, turning him into some kind of hero for skating with the bandage.

 

[dinakt]

I love Ashley for being outspoken, as a current competitive athlete. She did it during Sochi Olympics, and she does it now. It is normal in such a competitive individualistic environment to downplay one's injuries so not to seem more vulnerable, and just speaking out can help so many. Brava Ashley, and get better!

 

[ZilphaK]

Curious and just a bit of a side question, but in regard to falls in general, are there any rinks or training centers where there is an enforced limit to how many falls a kid can take a day, let's say on freestyle ice while training?

I'm asking this not only in relation to bone and soft tissue injuries -- although that's also part of it --, but I'm pretty convinced that the only time (knock wood) my kid did seem to have concussion "like" symptoms was after a series of hard falls where her head did not hit the ice, but the way she was falling meant a kind of head whip action to stop herself from hitting the ice. Again, knowing that concussions can happen even without a head smack, I was just curious whether any rinks or training centers or even individual coaches place a limit on falls per day. Or even if there are requirements to use padding? (Usually, I don't see kids putting on padding until after they've weathered their first bad bone bruise.)

I know that Little League only allows so many pitches over a period of time...I have no idea how this would be enforced in skating, but even if enforcement is impossible, education of parents, skaters and coaches on limiting falls and especially how to re-enter training after a head hit is important. I think that if all three members of the team are educated under the same system, there's more likelihood that someone might call "foul" on dangerous levels and conditions in training.

I think helmets would be a hard sell for a lot of reasons, but I do think that training jumps using a pole or harness or, again, off-ice jump training (I know this is a subject with pros and cons), as well as fall and jump limits per training day/session are all ways to sensibly protect skaters in what is already a fairly demanding, high body-stress sport.

 

[made_in_canada]

I think in skating it's not as easy to just wear protective headgear as in other sports. In soccer, and a lot of other sports, there's a clear predictable risk of impact from a ball or other players. In skating though, impacts are a lot more variable so I'd think it would be more difficult to design a lightweight helmet that would actually do anything. I'd also hazard a guess based on my own experiences skating and coaching that many concussions in the sport don't necessarily come from impact.

 

[MacMadame]

From my own experiences with falling (and concussions), I'm not sure a "fall limit" would do anything either. So many falls are nothing. You land on your butt or your knees but no head whipping, no head hitting. Other falls are clearly serious. A lot are in between. How can you judge?

Perhaps protocols like you have to be checked out after a fall. But if you sit during a freestyle session, you'll see people fall constantly. And most are clearly not serious. Getting skates tangled with a partner/coach and sitting on your bum. Tripping on the toe picks because you aren't paying attention and landing hard but bouncing right back up. This doesn't even count the kids practicing jumps who fall over and over.

It's not practical to have to get off the ice and be checked out every time for every fall. But skaters aren't the best judge of when they should get off the ice either.

I really don't know what the answer is.

 

[ZilphaK]

I'd also hazard a guess based on my own experiences skating and coaching that many concussions in the sport don't necessarily come from impact.

Also, helmets--so far--do not do well at preventing concussions. A concussion is caused by the rapid deceleration/sloshing of the brain inside the head when the head stops suddenly at velocity (that's my layman's attempt at explanation.) It's not the impact so much as it's the brain moving forward and then backward and hitting the inside of the skull. There have been some attempts at "concussion proof" helmets, but the info I've found on studies is mostly inconclusive or revealed to be flawed studies. Here's a recent article on a new helmet and a good run-down of the challenges in making a re-usable and non-cumbersome concussion helmet. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...ises-to-protect-the-brain-not-just-the-skull/

Helmets do help prevent skull fractures, which are also serious.

It's not practical to have to get off the ice and be checked out every time for every fall. But skaters aren't the best judge of when they should get off the ice either.

Not for concussions, but there have also been a multitude of articles and discussions in general discussing injury prevention overall, especially as younger and younger skaters start doing quads and triples. I've definitely sat in on plenty of freestyle sessions where a kid is getting to the point of just throwing himself/herself onto the ice trying a jump. I just don't feel like, as a parent, that it's ever been explained to me or to my skater as to how much is enough and how much is too much. Especially with coaches who may not be teaching good jump technique or know how to teach higher level jumps, you can see kids really beating themselves up over a 45 minute session.

It's rare, IME, to hear a coach say "enough is enough." Start that at 8yo and continue through 14 or 15 with 2A and triples, and it's no wonder a number talented young athletes can't get through puberty without a string of injuries. Again, it just seems like more off ice, even for just learning body control, or insisting on padding earlier on, etc. could all be part of a larger, complete protocol of injury prevention.

Again, enforcing limitations would be hard, but I do think there is room for education for coaches, parents and skaters and that education would cross-over with concussion education and reinforce an overall re-thinking of what's solid, safer training at each level, and what becomes foolhardy.

 

[MacMadame]

I do think there is room for education for coaches, parents and skaters and that education would cross-over with concussion education and reinforce an overall re-thinking of what's solid, safer training at each level, and what becomes foolhardy.

I think education is our best bet. I know in my own situation I made a lot of mistakes that prolonged my symptoms because I didn't know I shouldn't do the things that I did. There will still be some athletes who ignore common sense and parents who push kids to get back in the game too soon but education can change the discussion and what is considered normal which will help most of the skaters.

The next thing we need is policies for events. And then for people to follow them.

 

[ZilphaK]

There will still be some athletes who ignore common sense and parents who push kids to get back in the game too soon

Absolutely, and this is a real problem. I think that in rinks where there is an education plan in place, as well as open discussion and clinics on safety topics and injury prevention, there will be a sort of rink culture of expectations and positive peer pressure push-back to help set a lower and sensible limit on "enough is enough" that could "catch" those skaters and parents who do push toward too much, too fast, too often.

 

[Carolla5501]

I would like to think that today, coaches, etc., are much better informed about head injuries than 10 years ago, or even 6 years ago. When you are tough (and I happen to be tough) you are not the best person to judge if you are ok. I have managed to walk around with broken bones.....

Heads are different though. At my barn, if you fall, and your head hits, and you can't remember what happened.......off to the hospital you go. Period!

Skating is dangerous. And, I am sure there are lots of things that can be brushed off....head injury, not so much.

Hanyu didn't fall, he collided with Han Yan, who also clearly was concussed and actually probably looked in worse shape than Hanyu. Hanyu could spin a couple of times at least; Han couldn't even get into positions, let alone spin.

I remember copping some stick for suggesting that even if they had to physically restrain those two, they should not have skated. I think after that the ISU did come up with some kind of protocol. Something to do with the official doctor and the event referee.

The scary part was seeing a lot of the Hanyu fans immediately start fetishising it, turning him into some kind of hero for skating with the bandage.

And yet the "better informed" coaches allowed these skaters to continue skating....

I don't think skating coaches are all informed. I think they are related to NFL owners LOL!

 

[LilJen]

Also, helmets--so far--do not do well at preventing concussions. A concussion is caused by the rapid deceleration/sloshing of the brain inside the head when the head stops suddenly at velocity (that's my layman's attempt at explanation.) It's not the impact so much as it's the brain moving forward and then backward and hitting the inside of the skull. There have been some attempts at "concussion proof" helmets, but the info I've found on studies is mostly inconclusive or revealed to be flawed studies. Here's a recent article on a new helmet and a good run-down of the challenges in making a re-usable and non-cumbersome concussion helmet. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...ises-to-protect-the-brain-not-just-the-skull/

Helmets do help prevent skull fractures, which are also serious.

Everyone needs to read Lucinda Ruh's book, Frozen Teardrop. She got multiple concussions not from falls/jumps but from SPINS. And yes, it's the impact of the brain on the skull that causes the concussions, not so much the impact of something on the skull.

 

[Sylvia]

Bumping up this thread for those who, like me, missed seeing it and reading the ESPN article when it was posted originally (right before Worlds).

Excerpts from Bonnie Ford's article:

Wagner, 24, said she has suffered at least three concussions in training over the past 10 years that went undiagnosed until she self-reported symptoms and believes her cognitive abilities have been permanently affected. Fear of being sidelined prevents many skaters from admitting they're concussed, she said, and few are willing to train with protective headgear. Skaters often train alone or with coaches who aren't trained to spot concussion warning signs.

Wagner: The first time I am 100 percent positive I suffered from a concussion, in the early 2000s, I was working on triple flip [jumps] without my coach. I tapped in and just kind of automatically set myself up at an angle, and fell onto my butt, [got] whiplash and hit my head on the ice. I got up, I was really dizzy and I was seeing spots. Then for probably about three months after that, I would get these skull-crushing headaches, and I had tunnel vision. I was doing summer shows, I would be in front of all these spotlights, I couldn't see and it made me really dizzy. That was the first one that set everything off.

From there you have the typical falls, when you're working on jumps. I have never gone into the doctor [immediately] to be diagnosed. I've always suffered the consequences later and gone in and been [told], "OK, you have post-concussion syndrome."

... My professional team is Russian and old school. So if anyone's gonna tell me, "You're fine, push through the pain, get over it," it's going to be my coach. But he also respects that I'm an adult and if I say I can't handle this today, he will respect that.

For reference, here was the earlier thread on the topic of concussions in figure skating with links to IceNetwork's 4 articles: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...n-figure-skating-in-series-of-articles.97820/

 

[IceAlisa]

Those who mention Arutunian, Ashley said that even though he is of the Russian "shake it off" school, he respects her as an adult who knows her body, when she voices her concerns.

 

[jlai]

I am not worried for Ashley though it sounds awful. I am worried for Nathan