Ashley Wagner in ESPN's 2017 Body issue - photos & article on concussion recovery & career longevity

I thought the deadspin.com article was ridiculous and off-base. I didn't read anything in Ashley's comments as an "apology" for anything and contrary to what the deadspin author thinks and states, the general ESPN audience DOES need to have a case made for them that it's not all about pretty porcelain dolls, spangles and spandex, and that figure skating is hard. The average ESPN viewer/reader really doesn't know much about the sport beyond the superficial marketing and a few NBC television clips from time to time with mostly nondescript commentary.

Furthermore, if you browse some of the other athletes featured in the Body Issue, the focus is on their own personal story within the sport...which is exactly what I thought most of Ashley's comments were.
 
I thought the article made a good point that how anything that is "feminine" including looking like "porcelain dolls" and wearing "sparkles" or paying attention to performance and dance is automatically seen as less athletic aka less of an achievement. The article was more about the language used to undermine figure skating and feeling that the athletes involved have where they need to explain away those aspects of the sport or undervalue them in order to sell it as a legitimate sport. I've been feeling that way for a while, especially when fans here tend to dismiss a skater as a "pretty princess" which sounds like code for "girl" or a "girl who should act and present herself differently" as if there's something inherently wrong with that. I mean with the history of the sport, especially in the USFS where beauty pageant styling has been encouraged and women who do not fit the mold have a tougher time of it, I get why there's a push back from being too celebratory of more gender conforming styles, but I think we go the other way some times and demean those whose authentic selves are more feminine presenting.
 
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VIETgrlTerifa said:
I thought the article made a good point that how anything that is "feminine" including looking like "porcelain dolls" and wearing "sparkles" or paying attention to performance and dance is automatically seen as less athletic aka less of an achievement. The article was more about the language used to undermine figure skating and feeling that the athletes involved need to explain way those aspects of the sport or undervalue them in order to sell it as a legitimate sport. I've been feeling that way for a while, especially when fans here tend to dismiss a skater as a "pretty princess" which sounds like code as "girl" or a "girl who should act and present herself differently" as if there's something inherently wrong with that. I mean with the history of the sport, especially in the USFS where beauty pageant styling has been encouraged and women who do not fit the mold have a tougher time of it, I get why there's a push back from being too celebratory of more gender conforming styles, but I think we go the other way some times and demean those whose authentic selves are more feminine presenting.
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Yes. You can be pretty and still be athletic. You can wear sparkles and still be masculine (aka athletic). We should let skaters be who they want to be. It doesn't matter what you wear, it's what you do on the ice. It's a difficult sport if you skate to soft music or rock.
 
It really comes from the false narrative about what is physically more difficult or more athletic. Many, many years ago when I was working on a committee looking at pay scales, I read a study that showed that sitting at a word processing machine all day was significant more physically demanding than the outdoor labour typically performed by men. The outdoor labourer had always been paid more, and got to the top of the their 3 step pay grade, much faster than the women (who had five steps to get through to get to the top of a significantly lower pay grade.) The men were paid more because it was believed that they did harder, physical work, or at least that was the party line. Even when faced with evidence to the contrary, the wages did not change significantly.

It is the same with ballet and figure skating. I would put good money on a bet that a figure skater or ballet dancer could pick up baseball much quicker than the other way around, yet baseball player are often seen as more athletic.

I am sure it is just a coincidence that the sports seen as more athletic tend to be the male dominated ones.
 
After looking at the video of Ashley again, it just makes me wish in a way I could go back to when I was around 26 years old. I've mentioned before about placing second in the Budweiser Arm Wrestling Championships in 1984. No one believed that I could have won a trophy because of the fact that I had to arm wrestle 12 women Harley Bike riders to get into the finals.

What they didn't realize was that I used to lift 25 pound pre-cut military pants bundles to bring to my locations where I did the inseams and banding at the garment factory in my town. I worked there for 8 years. Over time, I had become pretty slim and muscular especially my arms and upper body from all that lifting.

If you'll notice the picture I'm going to share of me and the trophy, my neck and shoulders were very muscular because of all the years of lifting those bundles.

Angie and Budweiser Arm Wrestling Trophy

I must admit that I was proud of the way my body looked, too, back then. My upper body and arms is still pretty muscular from using the wheelchair and walker. I also lift dumbbells and use stretch rubber bands because I have to maintain my upper body strength in order carry my weight when I use the walker, and my home is carpeted which means it's harder to use the wheelchair. It's easier to use over a hard floor, but I've become used to the carpet.

I'm really impressed with Ashley, and she should be proud of the way her body looks and just proud of herself in general because in years to come, it will be better for her health wise. I still worked out, exercised, ate healthy and took vitamins right before I ended up with the NF and nearly died. My doctors told me they felt I would have died if I hadn't been in such good health. So, eating healthy and exercising does really have its benefits.
 
In the body issue, the female hockey team members were asked specifically about the misconceptions of female hockey players they've encounteted.

One of them answered:

We're normal women. We like to be feminine. We love to get dressed up and be pretty. But we love to train and be strong and be aggressive. There's this misconception that, if we play ice hockey, we're a certain way off the ice. We're normal.
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As for Ashley's photos, she looks fab. :)
 
mag said:
It is the same with ballet and figure skating. I would put good money on a bet that a figure skater or ballet dancer could pick up baseball much quicker than the other way around, yet baseball player are often seen as more athletic.
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By whom? Baseball players are always getting grief for having beer bellies and often seen has not as athletic as some other sports. :)

I thought the article as okay. It brought up some interesting points. I do think the author was projecting a bit when interpreting Ashley's comments but only a little. It also seems like she hasn't been paying attention to Ashley all that long. Yes, today, Ashley has stronger performance aspects to her skating compared to average and isn't doing the hardest jumps. But as a Junior, she was zooming across the ice as fast as possible with plainer skating dresses and her hair in a pony tail/minimal make-up and landing all the hardest jumps that Juniors land. She definitely skated like a "tomboy" (her term) and was not as strong in the performance aspects.

I think it would have been interesting to explore the change. How much was this a natural result of maturing vs. a giving in to the culture of figure skating vs. a calculated change to maximize points as others upped the technical ante? The author could have actually reached out to Wagner and talked to her about it instead of just responding to the interview.
 
MacMadame said:
I think it would have been interesting to explore the change. How much was this a natural result of maturing vs. a giving in to the culture of figure skating vs. a calculated change to maximize points as others upped the technical ante? The author could have actually reached out to Wagner and talked to her about it instead of just responding to the interview.
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Yes, that would have made the interview more interesting.
 
sap5 said:
But that would have involved actual work, which it didn't seem like the author was interested in doing.
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The author is Dvora Meyers, who has written quite a well-researched book on the new gymnastics judging system and its consequences. I agree that she seemed to be projecting in this article, but as she mostly writes about gymnastics, was probably a bit out of her depth here.
 
marysy said:
The author is Dvora Meyers, who has written quite a well-researched book on the new gymnastics judging system and its consequences. I agree that she seemed to be projecting in this article, but as she mostly writes about gymnastics, was probably a bit out of her depth here.
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She's also out of her depth in this passage from the article:

People really don’t need to be told that skating is highly skilled and physically demanding. We’ve all been dragged to an ice rink at least once in our lives and have clung desperately to the boards to keep from falling.
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No, the average American has NOT been dragged to the rink and clung desperately to the boards. This is something that mostly happens to white and Asian girls who come from middle-class or above backgrounds and who also live in a part of the country where there are ice rinks. Even the brothers of these girls wouldn't have had this experience, unless they hail from that even smaller slice of America where it's common for boys to play hockey. Otherwise, no. The average American doesn't have a clue as to how hard this sport really is.
 
I agree that I found that passage problematic as well because it's making assumptions about how people live and what their shared experiences are. Further, the truth is what Ashley said about how hard the sport is needs to be said over and over and NBC and other networks should show all the on-ice and off-ice training they go through and tough tough things like ballet training is. One can't assume the public, especially the demographic that reads ESPN magazine knows how hard ice skating is.
 
Simone411 said:
Thanks for sharing this. I'm reminded of what happened with Natasha Richardson because she refused to be taken to the hospital. She didn't realize the seriousness of her concussion and brain trauma.

Natasha Richardson: Tragic delays after her fatal fall.
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And she was in an area of Canada that didn't have the proper access to neuro-surgery in time anyway. As I remember, it wouldn't have mattered had she gone to the hospital because they didn't have the ability to treat her condition.
 
Enchanted said:
In the body issue, the female hockey team members were asked specifically about the misconceptions of female hockey players they've encounteted.
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It looks like all the contributors were asked a similar question either about the validity of their sport, and/or women in sport, because the article about the female fencer also referenced similar themes:
Yes, fencing is a "real" sport and requires you to be very athletic. I feel like there's this myth that it's just something you see in movies. But it's not. It's really fast-paced and high-energy, and you have to be really athletic and able to change directions and change speeds. It requires a lot of control and endurance.
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"All those triple axels..." I mean...at least learn about the sport and who does which jumps.
I've always liked Ashley. She's not my favorite on the ice, but I like that she seems down to earth and honest.
 
marysy said:
The author is Dvora Meyers, who has written quite a well-researched book on the new gymnastics judging system and its consequences. I agree that she seemed to be projecting in this article, but as she mostly writes about gymnastics, was probably a bit out of her depth here.
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Definitely. Making wild assumptions like your entire readership has gone to the ice rink makes one's piece a rant rather than something that persuades people to see one's point.
 
sap5 said:
Definitely. Making wild assumptions like your entire readership has gone to the ice rink makes one's piece a rant rather than something that persuades people to see one's point.
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I think it was kind of an off-hand remark that swept a little too broadly. The point she was trying to make was that anyone who has stepped on an ice rink for the first time knows skating is difficult. And I think the comment that it's mostly white and Asian girls who try skating sweeps a little too narrowly. Where I live, kids' birthday parties at indoor skating rinks are common so most kids--boys and girls-- have stepped on the ice at least once. I'd give the author a break on this one.
 
Sylvia said:
More about Ashley's photo shoot in Sarah Brannen's 7/7/17 "Inside Edge" blog: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/07/07/240971480
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Ashley said she didn't drink water for a day-and-a-half. That's a long time to go without water! Why? Would it have made her naked body look bloated or something? :confused:

She looked so fit and fab btw. And it must take courage to do an athletic photo shoot naked. But maybe not so much if you are fit, comfortable in your own skin, and enjoy the attention. :)
 
aftershocks said:
Ashley said she didn't drink water for a day-and-a-half. That's a long time to go without water! Why? Would it have made her naked body look bloated or something? :confused:

She looked so fit and fab btw. And it must take courage to do an athletic photo shoot naked. But maybe not so much if you are fit, comfortable in your own skin, and enjoy the attention. :)
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I've heard actors do this before shirtless scenes, so they look as cut as possible. Sometimes they do this for a week.
 
^^ But hydration is important for the human body. I don't understand how they can get away with not drinking fluids for long periods of time, unless they are able to drink something other than water while they are abstaining?
 
aftershocks said:
^^ But hydration is important for the human body. I don't understand how they can get away with not drinking fluids for long periods of time, unless they are able to drink something other than water while they are abstaining?
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Drinking something other than water is drinking water. So, no, they don't do that if they know what they are doing. (I am not going to assume they all do, but I think most understand that.)

However, food has water in it How much depends on the food. The average person gets about a quart of water into their body just from eating. But it's still dangerous to go for a few days without water.
 
skatfan said:
And she was in an area of Canada that didn't have the proper access to neuro-surgery in time anyway. As I remember, it wouldn't have mattered had she gone to the hospital because they didn't have the ability to treat her condition.
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I understand exactly in regards to that. I was first admitted to the hospital in my hometown when my doctor realized it was a matter of life and death. This was around 9 a.m. in the morning when I first went to my doctors office. He had already suspected that I had NF, but he still had to send off lab results. Realizing how serious it really was, he came around noon to check my leg in the hospital.

The inside of my leg was already turning black. He didn't wait on the lab results. He immediately had an ambulance transfer me to LSU medical center in Shreveport which is 40 miles away because the hospital in my town didn't have the means, equipment or the ability to treat my condition in order to save my life. It was critical that I was treated immediately because if it would have been delayed (even by one day, 24 hours) I would have died.

In the case with NF, 1 out of every 4 patients die. Those statistics are even worse if NF is misdiagnosed and a day or two goes by. That person will definitely die if it's misdiagnosed and the person is sent home without treatment. So, thanks to my doctor's correct diagnose in those critical few hours, I'm still alive.
 
I don't think they "airbrush" for the body issue -- it would defeat the purpose. Lighting, makeup, etc. sure, but not the kind of alterations that would present a distorted picture of what the athlete's body is really like. It always amazes me when I see what's under the clothes. A few years ago one of the athletes was Prince Fielder, who looks fat in his baseball uniform. But without the clothes it was apparent how much of his torso is really muscle, with just a layer of "pot belly" over it. Ashley has really powerful looking glutes and leg muscles, as she should!
 
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