Eric Radford and Vanessa James to compete in pairs together for Canada

[marbri]

I get the impression Duhamel would be working every moment, down to calculating the GOE for loading up her breakfast tray.

I always got the same impression. I recall though in an interview she mentioned Eric was just as, if not more, into analysing and calculating as she was. I guess she just started as soon as she hit the K&C

 

[karmena]

... my impression has been that Meagan started her calculations even before getting in the K&C...!! she did so while still on the ice, at the end of their performance... If honestly, this utter rationality took away from me any enjoyment to watch D/R skating.

I was happy Eric and Vanessa paired up though the age certainly is a factor for them. I strongly believe if J/R would have had an experienced and wise coach and appropriate choreography they would be great, eventually.

 

[Japanfan]

... my impression has been that Meagan started her calculations even before getting in the K&C...!! she did so while still on the ice, at the end of their performance... If honestly, this utter rationality took away from me any enjoyment to watch D/R skating.

Maybe that was what she was talking about when she talking down to Eric from up in a lift.

 

[her grace]

Because her partner was involved in something and she found a good opportunity to skate with another top-level skater? Yes, exactly.

It takes a village to abuse a child. Like many abusers, Cipres could comfortably believe he could get away with sending sexually explicit material to a child. He was surrounded by people who chose to support him over the child, and his actions are still minimized into just “doing something.” Unfortunately, James was part of that supportive (of the abuser) village. She’s certainly not more culpable than Cipres, but she also didn’t report and supported him after the allegations were public. That’s part of the context for why she’s skating for Canada and not everyone will ignore that.

 

[skatista098]

It takes a village to abuse a child. Like many abusers, Cipres could comfortably believe he could get away with sending sexually explicit material to a child. He was surrounded by people who chose to support him over the child, and his actions are still minimized into just “doing something.” Unfortunately, James was part of that supportive (of the abuser) village. She’s certainly not more culpable than Cipres, but she also didn’t report and supported him after the allegations were public. That’s part of the context for why she’s skating for Canada and not everyone will ignore that.

How was Vanessa part of the "supportive village"? And what evidence do you have that she supported him? I'm asking because what I've read in regards to her supposed "actions," they sound more like speculation and assumptions than anything else. And she's said in an interview that she found out what Cipres had done at the same time that everyone else did. This means that he had already been reported by the time that she found out.

 

[Sylvia]

ISU article titled “New and experienced” Vanessa James/Eric Radford want to inspire (March 17): https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...-radford-can-want-to-inspire?templateParam=15
Excerpts:

Coming back from Beijing, the Skaters were busy. “It’s has been a whirlwind since we returned from Beijing,” Eric said. They were home in Montreal for two days and trained, then went to Toronto to work a stunt doubles for an upcoming movie and were headed to Zurich, Switzerland for shows. “We were there for a week. We feel very fortunate to be able to perform in those incredible shows. I also think we both like that we have stayed really busy since coming back because after a big event like the Olympics you can have a major emotional hangover which isn’t so pleasant,” Radford noted.

Obviously, it is very special to compete in France for Vanessa as she represented the country for more than ten years in international competition. “I feel immense gratitude and I am extremely excited to skate in front of the French audience again. Of course France holds a special place in my heart. My journey has truly come full circle and it feels like the stars have aligned finishing my career competing in France and representing Canada. I couldn’t think of a better way to end this season,” she said.

 

[Lemonade20]

How was Vanessa part of the "supportive village"? And what evidence do you have that she supported him? I'm asking because what I've read in regards to her supposed "actions," they sound more like speculation and assumptions than anything else. And she's said in an interview that she found out what Cipres had done at the same time that everyone else did. This means that he had already been reported by the time that she found out.

She did show support for him by liking his posts and not saying anything. Sorry but her behaviour after was awful.

 

[skatista098]

She did show support for him by liking his posts and not saying anything. Sorry but her behaviour after was awful.

If a person likes someone's post, that does not mean that they are aligning with ALL of the person's character and morals, past and future behaviors. So, unless Cipres was specifically addressing what he did in a post and Vanessa liked that post, what you're saying is an assumption.

Also, a person does not have to publicly rebuke, shame or ignore someone to disagree with their behavior. I would not be surprised if she condemned him directly and privately. I heard that Vanessa was advised not to speak about the situation publicly during the investigation. I do not see how that makes her guilty of anything.

 

[MacMadame]

How was Vanessa part of the "supportive village"? And what evidence do you have that she supported him? I'm asking because what I've read in regards to her supposed "actions," they sound more like speculation and assumptions than anything else. And she's said in an interview that she found out what Cipres had done at the same time that everyone else did. This means that he had already been reported by the time that she found out.

She posted a message of support to him on social media when the allegations first became public. This is a fact and beyond ambiguous.

 

[skatista098]

She posted a message of support to him on social media when the allegations first became public. This is a fact and beyond ambiguous.

Please elaborate. What did the message say? I want evidence that this is a "fact and beyond ambiguous".

 

[canbelto]

Predators are often very charming and good at pulling the wool over peoples' eyes. Remember a lot of big names posted in support of Larry Nassar at first too.

 

[angi]

Please elaborate. What did the message say? I want evidence that this is a "fact and beyond ambiguous".

Please go over this thread. Several of us presented many arguments and examples as to why Vanessa is heavily criticized for how she handled (and still handles) the Cipres situation. So before you ask people to repeat themselves over and over again, I suggest you do the minimum research that is reading this one thread.

 

[skatista098]

Please go over this thread. Several of us presented many arguments and examples as to why Vanessa is heavily criticized for how she handles the Cipres situation. So before asking people to repeat themselves over and over again I suggest you do the minimum research that is going over this one thread.

I have taken the time to read a lot of this thread actually. I remember your arguments, and to me they seemed very assumption-based and did include speculated examples as well. This is why I'm asking for facts. If someone wrote exactly what Vanessa's infamous message that was in support of Cipres said in this thread, can you please re-post it because I did not see it.

 

[angi]

I have taken the time to read a lot of this thread actually. I remember your arguments, and to me they seemed very assumption-based and did include speculated examples as well. This is why I'm asking for facts. If someone wrote exactly what Vanessa's infamous message that was in support of Cipres said in this thread, can you please re-post it because I did not see it.

So you are free to keep thinking she's done nothing wrong and the rest of us who thinks differently will keep thinking differently.
And shockingly I also don't have a screenshot of her "infamous message", I'm not a fanyu, I don't keep a folder of "receipts" on skaters. It was a message supporting Cipres that she later deleted and several people confirmed seeing it, what other proof should there be?

 

[skatista098]

So you are free to keep thinking she's done nothing wrong and the rest of us who thinks differently will keep thinking differently.
And shockingly I also don't have a screenshot of her "infamous message", I'm not a fanyu, I don't keep a folder of "receipts" on skaters. It was a message supporting Cipres that she later deleted and several people confirmed seeing it, what other proof should there be?

From what I heard, Vanessa was advised not to speak on the matter. So it does not add up for her to post a message in support of him against advice. Just as people can look at a random "like" on social media, speculate and claim that it is in support of Cipres' behavior, I do think that that is a possibility with this message. This is why I would like to know exactly what it said. Sorry, but no, I will not just take your word for it. Evidence please.

 

[angi]

From what I heard, Vanessa was advised not to speak on the matter. So it does not add up for her to post a message in support of him against advice. Just as people can look at a random "like" on social media, speculate and claim that it is in support of Cipres' behavior, I do think that that is a possibility with this message. This is why I would like to know exactly what it said. Sorry, but no, I will not just take your word for it. Evidence please.

I never asked you to take my word for it, in fact as I said, you are free to think what you want to think. However, the rest of us does not owe you evidence, you are more than welcome to conduct your own inquiry and come to a conclusion you feel comfortable with, that's what I did.
ETA: Also, I would like to know exactly what was said in what you heard she was advised not to speak on the matter. Evidence please.

 

[skatista098]

I never asked you to take my word for it, in fact as I said, you are free to think what you want to think. However, the rest of us does not owe you evidence, you are more than welcome to conduct your own inquiry and come to a conclusion you feel comfortable with, that's what I did.

I do not understand how you can repeatedly accuse Vanessa of supporting Cipres in a social media message (which is a pretty huge and damning accusation) but not recall what the message even said?

 

[Sylvia]

For anyone interested in searching for "evidence" in old posts on FSU, here are the links to 2 Cipres threads from December 2019 that subsequently were locked:

#1: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/cipres-accused-of-sexual-misconduct.106530/

#2: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...s-release-on-the-situation-12-16-2019.106562/

And shockingly I also don't have a screenshot of her "infamous message", I'm not a fanyu, I don't keep a folder of "receipts" on skaters. It was a message supporting Cipres that she later deleted and several people confirmed seeing it

I suspect Skating Twitter is more likely to keep such "receipts"...

 

[skatista098]

For anyone interested in searching for "evidence" in old posts on FSU, here are the links to 2 Cipres threads from December 2019 that subsequently were locked:

#1: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/cipres-accused-of-sexual-misconduct.106530/

#2: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...s-release-on-the-situation-12-16-2019.106562/


I suspect Skating Twitter is more likely to keep such "receipts"...

Thank you. I found an old Skating Lesson youtube video with Vanessa's post.
It reads:
“Before you speak, listen.
Before you write, think.
Before you spend, earn.
Before you invest, investigate.
Before you criticize, wait.
Before you pray, forgive.
Before you quit, try.
Before you retire, save.
Before you die, give.”

― William Arthur Ward

This is generic, everyday advice. Morgan is not tagged, his behavior is not addressed. This is a huge reach if you think this is in support of him.

 

[miffy]

I love that in that second old thread someone suggested Vanessa could skate with Eric Radford in shows

 

[overedge]

Vanessa was asked directly about her involvement with "something" after her partnership with Eric was announced. Her response was that she didn't know about the abuse, that she was a good person, and that she was sorry if her being silent hurt anyone.

If she was getting advice about dealing with the media, she should have been getting much better advice.

Here's the source FYI. https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...ations-former-partner-morgan-cipres-1.6220285

 

[angi]

Thank you. I found an old Skating Lesson youtube video with Vanessa's post.
It reads:
“Before you speak, listen.
Before you write, think.
Before you spend, earn.
Before you invest, investigate.
Before you criticize, wait.
Before you pray, forgive.
Before you quit, try.
Before you retire, save.
Before you die, give.”

― William Arthur Ward

This is generic, everyday advice. Morgan is not tagged, his behavior is not addressed. This is a huge reach if you think this is in support of him.

Yes, she was clearly referring to the weather that day, it's a complete coincidence that it was posted at the same time the allegations against him became public and was deleted when people voiced exactly what they think on it.

 

[skatista098]

Vanessa was asked directly about her involvement with "something" after her partnership with Eric was announced. Her response was that she didn't know about the abuse, that she was a good person, and that she was sorry if her being silent hurt anyone.

If she was getting advice about dealing with the media, she should have been getting much better advice.

Here's the source FYI. https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...ations-former-partner-morgan-cipres-1.6220285

I disagree with you, I think her response is sufficient. I do not see any evidence that she is a bad person in her response or in her past behaviors. It is strange to me that you seem to think that she should not have the right to believe or reassure herself that she is a good person. Lastly, I think it is very considerate of her to apologize if she indirectly hurt anyone by following given advice at the time.

 

[skatista098]

Yes, she was clearly referring to the weather that day, it's a complete coincidence that it was posted at the same time the allegations against him became public and was deleted when people voiced exactly what they think on it.

I cannot see a single phrase in that poem that relates to Cipres when I read it. All I see is you taking a copied quote that looks like it has nothing to do with Cipres or what he did out of context to fit your narrative. That is all. Vanessa was advised not to speak on it. Instead she posted some nice generic quote about how to do life better in general. Bless her heart!

 

[angi]

I disagree with you, I think her response is sufficient. I do not see any evidence that she is a bad person in her response or in her past behaviors. It is strange to me that you seem to think that she should not have the right to believe or reassure herself that she is a good person. Lastly, I think it is very considerate of her to apologize if she indirectly hurt anyone by following given advice at the time.

So great, you are welcome to be a huge fan of hers and support her, it's your prerogative. Why do you think the rest of us must agree with you when many of us clearly don't?

 

[overedge]

I disagree with you, I think her response is sufficient. I do not see any evidence that she is a bad person in her response or in her past behaviors. It is strange to me that you seem to think that she should not have the right to believe or reassure herself that she is a good person. Lastly, I think it is very considerate of her to apologize if she indirectly hurt anyone by following given advice at the time.

Let me break it down for you.

• Given how closely pairs teams work together, and work with their coaches, and that the cover-up was supposed to protect the team's career, it's almost impossible to believe that James did not know what was going on.
• Being a good person has nothing to do with whether someone did or didn't act appropriately in a certain situation.
• A conditional apology - apologizing if someone else was affected - is not a real apology. It doesn't take responsibility for the impact of the actions.

 

[skatista098]

Let me break it down for you.

• Given how closely pairs teams work together, and work with their coaches, and that the cover-up was supposed to protect the team's career, it's almost impossible to believe that James did not know what was going on.
• Being a good person has nothing to do with whether someone did or didn't act appropriately in a certain situation.
• A conditional apology - apologizing if someone else was affected - is not a real apology and doesn't take responsibility for the impact of someone's actions.

I think that it is very easy to believe that she did not know. Sometimes when someone does something wrong, their instinct may be to try to fix it or hide it from their partner or family in fear of repercussions or their disappointment. There is no way that Vanessa would have responded well to that type of behavior. The rest of them could have easily covered it up and not said anything because they thought they had gotten away with it.

I think her apology was sincere.

 

[manhn]

We are giving Russian athletes leeway when they remain silent, as long as they do not actively support the Russian government’s abuse. I think Vanessa should be given the same courtesy.

 

[skatista098]

So great, you are welcome to be a huge fan of her and support her, it's your prerogative. Why do you think the rest of us must agree with you when many of us clearly don't?

You have every right to not be a fan if you do not want to be. However, it would be nice if you backed it up with factual reasoning. Not heresay, huge assumptions and speculation. Especially when you are seeking to attack Vanessa's character. That infamous post in "support of Cipres" is pure rubbish.

 

[overedge]

I think that it is very easy to believe that she did not know. Sometimes when someone does something wrong, their instinct may be to try to fix it or hide it from their partner or family in fear of repercussions or their disappointment. There is no way that Vanessa would have responded well to that type of behavior. The rest of them could have easily covered it up and not said anything because they thought they had gotten away with it.

Believe what you will. If there is a strategic plan to cover up the behaviour of one partner in a pairs team, it would be a fatal flaw in that plan not to let the other partner know what was going on, in case they inadvertently blew that cover.