Eric Radford and Vanessa James to compete in pairs together for Canada

genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
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I actually thought Meagan's statement was pretty even keel after the earlier :drama: vaguepost. She makes it clear that she wishes no ill will toward the new partnership, and wishes Eric well, but makes it clear that not having the courtesy of an advance conversation feels like a betrayal. I do not blame her for that at all.

And once more for those in the back: not shade ;)
 

maatTheViking

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I think the difference was that Julianne and Lubov already had plans to compete and had costumes and other things made. Both partners had the entire competitive season planned out and Charlie led both of them on to think he was still intentionally competing with her. There's a major difference between that situation and this one. For one, we all know what a competitive season looks like. It's set, it's scheduled years ahead of time, and there are competitions one does.

Here, there were no open or active working schedule Duhamel and Radford were on. Like I said, if there were actual shows they were contracted to partake in OR if there was such thing as a professional schedule and Radford led Duhamel on only to blindside her with the James partnership, then I'd find him totally at fault. There are no shows, months have passed up, and Radford found an opportunity to compete with another partner. He could have been more considerate, but we know Duhamel was not planning on competing again nor did she make plans or prepare for a competitive season only to be left high and dry. She was at home with nothing on the horizon.

I agree.

in addition, a competitive partnership is very different than a non-competitive. Clearly, training for competition is much more time intensive, and also time bound. Once' you're no longer competing, it's not sport - it's work. Unless you have a written contract about the rules and obligations for your professional working relationship, anything can happen?

I'm guessing when you're in a competitive partnership for years, you're used to knowing what goes on, and have a clear plan and goal. Once you're done, people might not think to enter a legal contract about future work together, because that's not how they have operated together. But it's still work, and should be treated as such.
I actually thought Meagan's statement was pretty even keel after the earlier :drama: vaguepost. She makes it clear that she wishes no ill will toward the new partnership, and wishes Eric well, but makes it clear that not having the courtesy of an advance conversation feels like a betrayal. I do not blame her for that at all.

And once more for those in the back: not shade ;)

I agree, this was pretty straightforward and states her experience. I don't actually see anything wrong with this post, it's her perspective and feelings and there is no shade, just how she took it, and her feelings are valid.


but I still don't think she was 'betrayed' - as above this was a non-legally binding talk about doing some work together.
 

Tavi

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I'm sorry but Radford hasn't done anything to breach any "verbal" agreement they once had. Skate in shows "as long as possible" is very vague. Unless they were signed up to some actual shows and he breached the agreement by canceling on them to skate with James competitively, he didn't do anything wrong. Now, Meagan probably felt like she and Radford had each other forever, and he would be available when she would be, but that's not how life works. This is why partnerships need a contract with explicit unambiguous terms.

I'm sure Radford could have been much better at communicating his intentions to Meagan and she wouldn't have felt so blindsided, but we haven't heard his side of the story. I could see him not being the most considerate person regarding this situation. Not because of anything about his personality but just that sometimes people can not be the most considerate to others especially when they've moved on to something they're excited about. However, he was under no obligation to keep skating with Meagan forever and keep himself available to their partnership if opportunities may have arisen.

And nothing is preventing him from doing shows with her AFTER the Olympic season is over other than the fact that she senses he rather do shows with Vanessa than her. That is probably what is hurting her the most.
Well, except we don’t really know if there was anything specific that was offered or discussed. It’s possible she chose not to give details. Since they were engaged for shows quite recently (2020 Stars on Ice was canceled 3/30/2020), unless they discussed anything to the contrary, I think she could have reasonably assumed that would continue in the near future, especially given it’s an Olympic season.
 

VGThuy

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It really depends to me on whether he made promises to her that he'd be available to take any touring or show opportunities in the Fall and Spring. Either way, for a long time partnership, he should have communicated that he was trying things out with Vanessa and hoping for a release. However, I do think outside of a promise that she just figured he'd be available a year from now to take whatever opportunities that may come their way, then that's on her.
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
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Meagan has released a statement:

Never a good idea to air dirty linen in public no matter what your grievances are!
Those things should be kept between the people concerned IMO.
 

VGThuy

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Well, except we don’t really know if there was anything specific that was offered or discussed. It’s possible she chose not to give details. Since they were engaged for shows quite recently (2020 Stars on Ice was canceled 3/30/2020), unless they discussed anything to the contrary, I think she could have reasonably assumed that would continue in the near future, especially given it’s an Olympic season.
Since we don't know that there's anything that was offered or discussed but she's going public with her story, then I'm going by the details she's providing. It seems as though they didn't really legally enter into any contracts to do shows or tours during the Olympic season because otherwise he would be legally liable to those tours and shows. I don't think she can reasonably assume anything until a contract is signed. She may be made an assumption based on their past working relationship, but in business, you don't rely on that. He's free to take other opportunities. Now, the issue is if he made her direct promises that he'd be available during the Olympic season AND if she took action to prepare herself for actual shows that are planned and they were intending to sign up for. Having this vague promise for him to be available for a whole year in case any shows or tours are planned but without any actual thing planned is not a reasonable request especially if it's going to prevent him from taking another opportunity.

Honestly, he didn't really break any promises if no tour or show was scheduled until after the Olympic season was over and he could have continued their professional partnership after his competitive partnership with James ended. However, she seems to be under the assumption that their professional partnership was over and that he would rather continue a professional partnership with Vanessa James. Maybe he told her explicitly that they were over. She didn't actually say he communicated that it was over permanently. Either way, I think that's where her hurt is coming from.
 

skylark

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Both Vanessa and Eric have posted Instagram stories showing some of their training together, along with their formal announcement posts - hers show a twist and a throw jump, his show two throws. So those who were wondering about how their twists would look can start to get an idea!

ETA: Not to get too tealeaf-ready, but from the wording of their respective posts I do get the impression that Vanessa was the driving force behind this - unsurprising if so, as she was also the driving force behind J/C...
In the interview with Dylan and his colleague, they said that it was Eric who invited Vanessa back after she'd returned to France. This was after they'd done some back stroking during a BotB practice and wowed the hockey players with their speed. Eric asked her to bring her Canadian passport, and this was when they experimented with some different elements and started practicing together in earnest.
 

Tavi

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It really depends to me on whether he made promises to her that he'd be available to take any touring or show opportunities in the Fall and Spring. Either way, for a long time partnership, he should have communicated that he was trying things out with Vanessa and hoping for a release. However, I do think outside of a promise that she just figured he'd be available a year from now to take whatever opportunities that may come their way, then that's on her.
I see your point, but she specifically states that they had “verbal agreements for shows.” I would read her second statement, that they had talked “numerous times” about continuing to do shows as long as possible, separately. Anyway, whatever the truth, I guess I feel bad for her.
 

VGThuy

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I see your point, but she specifically states that they had “verbal agreements for shows.” I would read her second statement, that they had talked “numerous times” about continuing to do shows as long as possible, separately. Anyway, whatever the truth, I guess I feel bad for her.
I do too the more I think about her situation. I have to take off my "contract" hat, and be a human again. It is actually jarring to realize how cold-blooded someone who you thought was like family can be when it comes to professional ambition. It definitely will change the way I would deal with ANYONE ever again outside actual family and even then, once you've been burned...
 

litenkyckling

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Never a good idea to air dirty linen in public no matter what your grievances are!
Those things should be kept between the people concerned IMO.
I would disagree with this - if she didn't address it then people would continuously ask her about it.

I honestly don't see the issue with sharing your feelings online - it's normal to feel hurt and loss and you should be able to share that if you want to. I think at the heart of this people just have issues with Meagan as she is an honest and outspoken person. Women in this sport should be more open and honest about their experiences imho.
 

genevieve

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I don't know why people are focusing so hard on written commitments. This is clearly about a personal and professional relationship, not breach of any formal contract. Seems incredibly likely that the reason there aren't any tangible commitments is that no one knows when tours are going to be a thing again, and based on D&R's show history, I don't think it required a consistent check in to assume that they would return to touring when feasible.

Of course Eric was free to pursue a new partnership. He made a career decision based on an exciting opportunity, and then made the choice to unveil it in a way that was almost certain to upset his previous partner (I mean, has he met Meagan? How else did he think this was going to go?). It's a gamble - Eric and Vanessa together already have a lot of buzz and excitement, it's incredibly realistic they'll go to the Olympics, no idea how competitive they will be. Maybe this will only increase his options post-2022. Maybe Meagan will agree to tour with him again later. Who knows.
 

kates8

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There are many sides to every story and this is no exception. I'm sure Meagan was expecting to do more tours with Eric-heard rumours there may be a Stars on Ice tour in Fall when CV allows, so she probably had that in back of mind and now her sister in law coaching them too - so ya, I feel for her and the communication should have been more up front and honest - they have a long history together that should have been respected.

To my knowledge, neither skater has come out in support of the victims by former partner (Morgan) nor Eric with his support of Coughlin which upsets me. I also get the feels that this is about themselves and personal gain - the Olympics should be more about skating for your country and that pride. They announce they are coming back 8 months prior to Canadians which would be the selection for Olympics. Without once competing for Canada, they make the assumption that they will have 2 Grand Prix and International assignment - taking away spots from Canadian teams that have been training ongoing for this crucial season. They will get funding - which will take away money from other teams. I get it - this is sport and no one has advance claim to anything, but it just doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. Skate Canada is throwing money and precious resources to a team that will be over and done from start to finish in less than a year - so much for skater development.
 

BlueRidge

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I would disagree with this - if she didn't address it then people would continuously ask her about it.

I honestly don't see the issue with sharing your feelings online - it's normal to feel hurt and loss and you should be able to share that if you want to. I think at the heart of this people just have issues with Meagan as she is an honest and outspoken person. Women in this sport should be more open and honest about their experiences imho.
Why? So fans can have more to talk about?

I see no reason why any of the personal emotional stuff needs to be shared with the whole world.

But like I said, I'm old. Maybe my view makes no sense to people who have grown up telling all on social media. I find it bizarre and not constructive.
 

tony

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Well, I went straight to the source and asked some questions to try to understand more:

Duhamel and Radford were scheduled to skate in Stars on Ice Japan tour that is presently happening (and turned to domestic skaters only). This was canceled to all North American skaters in February because of restrictions about incoming visitors. They were also committed to Stars on Ice Canada and US in the fall, of course if it took place.

Seeing how this would've filled up most of April and then the late months of the year, I don't really think there was much in terms of 'vague' discussions about the future. I believe they had plans to fill up the year to the maximum, of course pending CV, and then Eric and Vanessa pushed forward on the down-low to guarantee they could set up their own plans.
 

litenkyckling

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Why? So fans can have more to talk about?

I see no reason why any of the personal emotional stuff needs to be shared with the whole world.

But like I said, I'm old. Maybe my view makes no sense to people who have grown up telling all on social media. I find it bizarre and not constructive.
But here's the thing - this can be constructive. "Telling all on social media" is a way of sharing and making people feel less alone - there will be a lot of people who will have their feelings validated by Meagan sharing her hurt if they have gone though similar experiences in relationships (business, friendship, romantic, or otherwise). Sharing personal emotional stuff might actually make this place a better world.

We have a mental health crisis globally and perhaps this is in part because we don't share enough emotional stuff.
 

skategal

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Since we don't know that there's anything that was offered or discussed but she's going public with her story, then I'm going by the details she's providing. It seems as though they didn't really legally enter into any contracts to do shows or tours during the Olympic season because otherwise he would be legally liable to those tours and shows. I don't think she can reasonably assume anything until a contract is signed. She may be made an assumption based on their past working relationship, but in business, you don't rely on that. He's free to take other opportunities. Now, the issue is if he made her direct promises that he'd be available during the Olympic season AND if she took action to prepare herself for actual shows that are planned and they were intending to sign up for. Having this vague promise for him to be available for a whole year in case any shows or tours are planned but without any actual thing planned is not a reasonable request especially if it's going to prevent him from taking another opportunity.

Honestly, he didn't really break any promises if no tour or show was scheduled until after the Olympic season was over and he could have continued their professional partnership after his competitive partnership with James ended. However, she seems to be under the assumption that their professional partnership was over and that he would rather continue a professional partnership with Vanessa James. Maybe he told her explicitly that they were over. She didn't actually say he communicated that it was over permanently. Either way, I think that's where her hurt is coming from.
It’s stated in the CBC story that the team up with Vanessa started after Battle of the Blades with the goal of pursuing professional work as a pair together.

I don’t think Meagan has to assume the professional partnership is over. It was pretty much over once Eric did that.
 

MsZem

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I do too the more I think about her situation. I have to take off my "contract" hat, and be a human again. It is actually jarring to realize how cold-blooded someone who you thought was like family can be when it comes to professional ambition. It definitely will change the way I would deal with ANYONE ever again outside actual family and even then, once you've been burned...
Unlike some here, I've never met Duhamel and have only spoken to Radford once. I got the impression of friendly colleagues, not family. But that might just be me.
 

VGThuy

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Well, I went straight to the source and asked some questions to try to understand more:

Duhamel and Radford were scheduled to skate in Stars on Ice Japan tour that is presently happening (and turned to domestic skaters only). This was canceled to all North American skaters in February because of restrictions about incoming visitors. They were also committed to Stars on Ice Canada and US in the fall, of course if it took place.

Seeing how this would've filled up most of April and then the late months of the year, I don't really think there was much in terms of 'vague' discussions about the future. I believe they had plans to fill up the year to the maximum, of course pending CV, and then Eric and Vanessa pushed forward on the down-low to guarantee they could set up their own plans.
They had commitments to actual tours that are planned and set up? Eric set himself for lawsuits if that's the case. Depending on what he said, when he said it, and if he communicated the same to the tour organizers. Of course, both the tour and Meagan have to prove damages.
 

Jammers

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I don't get this pairing. If both skaters wanted to make a comeback and make another Olympic team getting together and coming back to compete for the first time in an Olympic year is almost to late they needed to do what V/M did and come back sooner. And what about after 2022 this is a team that is already 36 and 33 i can't see them going till 2026.
 

BlueRidge

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But here's the thing - this can be constructive. "Telling all on social media" is a way of sharing and making people feel less alone - there will be a lot of people who will have their feelings validated by Meagan sharing her hurt if they have gone though similar experiences in relationships (business, friendship, romantic, or otherwise). Sharing personal emotional stuff might actually make this place a better world.

We have a mental health crisis globally and perhaps this is in part because we don't share enough emotional stuff.
good lord. I should have exited with the 20th Century. :scream:

IMO, its nothing but exhibitionism. Its not actually sharing with another human being at all. How awful for people that their only outlet is not to speak to people in person but to throw posts to the wind on social media and hope the blowback isn't too bad.

People can use electronic communications to communicate with friends and family but putting things on social media is anything but sharing with other humans in a way that is meaningful.
 

VGThuy

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good lord. I should have exited with the 20th Century. :scream:

IMO, its nothing but exhibitionism. Its not actually sharing with another human being at all. How awful for people that their only outlet is not to speak to people in person but to throw posts to the wind on social media and hope the blowback isn't too bad.

People can use electronic communications to communicate with friends and family but putting things on social media is anything but sharing with other humans in a way that is meaningful.
It's ego too. But some people don't have people in their personal life and need validation somewhere, even from strangers. Better if it's dozens of strangers. Hundreds or thousands, you better start seeking sponsors! Like and subscribe! Hee-hee!
 

Judy

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Wow I am shocked. not taking sides here .. but he should have had the decency to tell Meaghan.
Never a good idea to air dirty linen in public no matter what your grievances are!
Those things should be kept between the people concerned IMO.
I disagree. This is nothing against Vanessa she is a beautiful skater. this is about Eric having the decency and respect to tell Meaghan. It would have been a very difficult conversation but it would have been the absolute right thing to do. It really says a lot about him. I’m also pissed at Skate Canada if they supported him with the way he did it.
 

MsZem

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good lord. I should have exited with the 20th Century. :scream:

IMO, its nothing but exhibitionism. Its not actually sharing with another human being at all. How awful for people that their only outlet is not to speak to people in person but to throw posts to the wind on social media and hope the blowback isn't too bad.

People can use electronic communications to communicate with friends and family but putting things on social media is anything but sharing with other humans in a way that is meaningful.
Putting on my academic hat... social media use, if done wisely, can help alleviate loneliness and foster social connections. Some people benefit from the support they can get online. It can be especially meaningful if you're dealing with things that people in your offline life can't fully understand.

(kind of like FSU ;))

I don't think Duhamel's post is necessarily all about this this, but I can absolutely see how it's helpful for her to vent and to have people support her.
 

litenkyckling

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good lord. I should have exited with the 20th Century. :scream:

IMO, its nothing but exhibitionism. Its not actually sharing with another human being at all. How awful for people that their only outlet is not to speak to people in person but to throw posts to the wind on social media and hope the blowback isn't too bad.

People can use electronic communications to communicate with friends and family but putting things on social media is anything but sharing with other humans in a way that is meaningful.
People make friends online all the time? Your meaning of "meaningful" may be different - but don't attack people who have different approaches. Also - we're living in a global *********, during which social media has been a huge help to many people.

Just because you don't understand social media, doesn't make it bad.
 

overedge

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I don't get this pairing. If both skaters wanted to make a comeback and make another Olympic team getting together and coming back to compete for the first time in an Olympic year is almost to late they needed to do what V/M did and come back sooner. And what about after 2022 this is a team that is already 36 and 33 i can't see them going till 2026.

Maybe they're doing it because they enjoy skating together and want to see what they can do with the partnership, for however long it lasts. Going to the Olympics is not the only reason that people want to skate.
 

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