Does anyone know about the subject of this article on John Coughlin in USA Today?

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TSL now reporting that Coughlin resigned as Brand Manager at John Wilson Blades. JW Blades’ Notice posted on their FB.
 
Anything that makes a skater feel unsafe also includes heated outbursts. I am aware of SafeSport allegations that were precipitated by a coach yelling at a student, so I think it would be wise to not make assumptions about the nature of the allegation while the issue is being adjudicated.
 
FWIW I think Safesport's mandate includes bullying and harassment as well as sexual abuse. Also, per @VIETgrlTerifa comment in the thread about the other coach, there were a lot of parents and others who said Larry Nassar couldn't have possibly done anything wrong to anyone because he never did anything to their kids.

Let the process unfold and see what evidence emerges.
I agree with letting the process unfold.

I also hope the allegations aren't true because I don't like the idea of someone with power over young people being abusive.

OTOH when we learn of long-term abuse such as Nassar and also the way that the Karolys ran their program, people always cry: why didn't anyone do anything?! Well, this thread is a case study in what happens when people do something and it isn't pretty.
 
The Skating Lesson has been very careful about saying factual things - Coughlin listed on the SafeSport website as having interim measures. Their critique has been of US Figure Skating who is not publishing the merest press release that this has occurred and where things stand, and when they discussed on the show on Sunday, not one reporter had followed up on the listings. There's no reason for them to take down anything they've posted.

Given all the problems in gymnastics, one would think a Federation would do better in keeping their community up-to-date on coaches that have issues.

Coughlin deserves to have the full investigation happen, and I hope that the truth, whatever it is, comes out and we know.
 
From Brennan's article:
“The Center has a number of tools at its disposal during an investigation, including the ability to issue interim measures,” SafeSport spokesman Dan Hill said in a text message to USA TODAY Sports on Monday afternoon. “The Center may issue an interim measure(s) for any number of reasons, but typically they are used before a matter is final. As each matter comes with its own unique set of circumstances, the specific disciplinary actions/sanctions in place on any given matter varies.”
I have a concern about how long a SafeSport investigation can last. Using the search tool on the SafeSport website ( https://safesport.org/userviolations/search ), there is one other person listed under the same interim restriction as Coughlin's when 'Figure Skating' is typed in the Sport box:

Steve Moore Interim Measure - Restriction
West Hartford, CT
Figure Skating
Adjudicating Body U.S. Center for SafeSport
Decision date 10/08/2018
Allegations of Misconduct Interim Measures

AFAIK, Moore is a national level official (technical specialist in singles/pairs - ETA that he was the TS on the Senior Pairs panel at 2016 Nationals, for example) and he also is currently listed online as a coach at Champions Skating Center / Inside Edge Figure Skating Academy in Cromwell, Connecticut. Three months have passed since he was added to the SafeSport website and a final decision has yet to be reached.

Coughlin's decision date is listed on the SafeSport website as 12/17/2018. I wonder how long he will be "in limbo" especially now that he has resigned from his John Wilson/MK Blades job which may have been a main source of income for him?
 
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From Brennan's article:

I have a concern about how long a SafeSport investigation can last. Using the search tool on the SafeSport website ( https://safesport.org/userviolations/search ), there is one other person listed under the same interim restriction as Coughlin's when 'Figure Skating' is typed in the Sport box:

Steve Moore Interim Measure - Restriction
West Hartford, CT
Figure Skating
Adjudicating Body U.S. Center for SafeSport
Decision date 10/08/2018
Allegations of Misconduct Interim Measures

AFAIK, Moore is a national level official (technical specialist in singles/pairs) and he also is currently listed online as a coach at Champions Skating Center / Inside Edge Figure Skating Academy in Cromwell, Connecticut. Three months have passed since he was added to the SafeSport website and a final decision has yet to be reached.

Coughlin's decision date is listed on the SafeSport website as 12/17/2018. I wonder how long he will be "in limbo" especially now that he has resigned from his John Wilson/MK Blades job which may have been a main source of income for him?

These processes are not usually quick, unfortunately. That is why they place the interim measures on, to protect the community, and allow the person against whom allegations have been made to continue to work, if appropriate.
 
These processes are not usually quick, unfortunately. That is why they place the interim measures on, to protect the community, and allow the person against whom allegations have been made to continue to work, if appropriate.

Also, the organization could face some liability if it applied a more permanent measure and the investigation ended in the charges/claims being dismissed.
 
This makes me wonder if TSL is enough of a name, that they could be sued for defamation?

Yes, but in general I don't have an issue with TSL. Dave just has enough sense to know this is a serious thing and not something you trade in gossip on. He was super careful just to note that his name was up there.

Much of the ensuing discussion was about how society treats skating issues differently from gymnastics. From his observation when something like this happens in gymnastics people comment on how much of a problem this is and athletes to be protected. When he shared John's status on social media with NO commentary to go with it, the general thread of response was to protect John and rile against him. He gets the innocent-until-proven-guilty paradigm but there wasn't much concern shown for any athletes who could be affected.
 
Much of the ensuing discussion was about how society treats skating issues differently from gymnastics. From his observation when something like this happens in gymnastics people comment on how much of a problem this is and athletes to be protected.
Really, that's what TSL is saying? That may be how people who follow gymnastics react now, but it definitely was not the case when allegations about Nassar and others first started to come out. Anyone who followed the story knows that the gymnasts who came forward were shunned and ignored for years. That's how it became such an enormous scandal.

I think it's too early to judge the skating world's reaction in this case.
 
I would rather that innocents are put in uncomfortable situations (by untrue allegations) than predators go free.

Hopefully the investigation is sound, and if a person is innocent they will be cleared, and if guilty they will be prosecuted.

I don't think a person's behavior when TV screens are rolling or many people are gathered tells the whole story. I will leave judgement of guilt or innocence to the investigators.
 
I would rather that innocents are put in uncomfortable situations (by untrue allegations) than predators go free.

Hopefully the investigation is sound, and if a person is innocent they will be cleared, and if guilty they will be prosecuted.

I don't think a person's behavior when TV screens are rolling or many people are gathered tells the whole story. I will leave judgement of guilt or innocence to the investigators.

I have two close friends, both school teachers, who were unjustly accused by students who later admitted lying.

Both my friends were scarred by the false accusations and the hearings that followed.

It's not just an "uncomfortable situation" to be lied about and have your professional and personal reputation permanently damaged.

There's a very good reason why people should be assumed innocent until proven guilty.
 
I don't think a person's behavior when TV screens are rolling or many people are gathered tells the whole story.
There's more to John being a nice person than what he's done in front of cameras or large groups. I met John years ago, and he was absolutely lovely to me when he didn't have to be. Furthermore, everyone I know says similarly.

Disclaimer: I don't know if John's guilty. Hell, I don't even know what he's accused of. And I certainly think this should be investigated fully.
 
Really, that's what TSL is saying? That may be how people who follow gymnastics react now, but it definitely was not the case when allegations about Nassar and others first started to come out. Anyone who followed the story knows that the gymnasts who came forward were shunned and ignored for years. That's how it became such an enormous scandal.

I think it's too early to judge the skating world's reaction in this case.

Agreed. Check out the Believed podcast to see how many times Nassar was given an out before he was finally caught.
 
There's more to John being a nice person than what he's done in front of cameras or large groups. I met John years ago, and he was absolutely lovely to me when he didn't have to be. Furthermore, everyone I know says similarly.

Disclaimer: I don't know if John's guilty. Hell, I don't even know what he's accused of. And I certainly think this should be investigated fully.
My multiple interactions with him have been the same.
 
You can investigate people without dragging them through the mud until the investigation is complete. Anybody and everybody can file a complaint against anyone. Not all people filing complaints are mentally and/or emotionally sound. While very rare, false complaints can be filed. This is why, when filing a complaint against healthcare professionals, the complaints are not made public unless the investigation has found the conplaint to be warranted and sanctions issued. Safesport needs to do the same.
 
This is why, when filing a complaint against healthcare professionals, the complaints are not made public unless the investigation has found the conplaint to be warranted and sanctions issued. Safesport needs to do the same.

How this works depends on the jurisdiction involved. Some regulatory bodies take the view that a professional could continue to commit abuse while the allegations are being investigated - so if the allegations are substantive enough for the complaint to be investigated, the person's ability to practice is restricted (e.g. can only do certain kinds of treatments, or can only work under direct supervision) until the complaint is resolved.
 
Really, that's what TSL is saying? That may be how people who follow gymnastics react now, but it definitely was not the case when allegations about Nassar and others first started to come out. Anyone who followed the story knows that the gymnasts who came forward were shunned and ignored for years. That's how it became such an enormous scandal.

I think it's too early to judge the skating world's reaction in this case.
He was focusing on the reactions of people who follow him when he's shared news stories about this sort of thing among gymnastic coaches recently, vs the reactions of people following him to stories about skating people (like Coughlin).
 
How this works depends on the jurisdiction involved. Some regulatory bodies take the view that a professional could continue to commit abuse while the allegations are being investigated - so if the allegations are substantive enough for the complaint to be investigated, the person's ability to practice is restricted (e.g. can only do certain kinds of treatments, or can only work under direct supervision) until the complaint is resolved.

But it is still not made public at that time, which is key. I am a mental health counselor. Those of us who work in this field work with very unstable people. Imagine the damage that could be caused if every complaint was made public? Even if people are cleared and found innocent, people still tend to believe that that person did something wrong to be accused.
 
But it is still not made public at that time, which is key. I am a mental health counselor. Those of us who work in this field work with very unstable people. Imagine the damage that could be caused if every complaint was made public? Even if people are cleared and found innocent, people still tend to believe that that person did something wrong to be accused.

Again, it depends on the jurisdiction. I understand the reasons for not making it public, but in some areas the fact that there's an investigation going on is made public so that customers/clients can make an informed choice about who they want to deal with. To be clear, I'm talking about all kinds of professions, not just in the health field.
 
A few posters mentioned this upthread, but citing how nice someone is is not much of a defense. Despite the lack of details, i think we can safely assume that the allegation was not that Coughlin was an asshole. And we should remember that the most successful villains are generally those that appear to be nice (the wolf in sheep’s clothing as it were).

I think everyone should just hope that the truth comes out and that justice prevails, no matter which side of the dispute ends up benefiting from that outcome.
 
Again, it depends on the jurisdiction. I understand the reasons for not making it public, but in some areas the fact that there's an investigation going on is made public so that customers/clients can make an informed choice about who they want to deal with. To be clear, I'm talking about all kinds of professions, not just in the health field.

Making it public may also help unearth other victims. I work for a large school district and there have unfortunately been a few cases in recent years of teachers or aides molesting students. The police, helped by the newspapers, publish the charges along with a request for parents to speak to their children about their contact with the alleged perpetrator and a number to call with concerns or further reports. Without fail, they've found at least 3 more victims in each case. And sending it out only to the school the teacher worked at wouldn't be sufficient because in several cases the police received calls from adults who had been victimized 10+ years previously and had summoned the courage to report it after seeing the person on the news. One of my own previous teachers was arrested and when they asked people to call with information, it turned out he'd been doing it since the '90s (he pled guilty, so it was not false accusations).

I understand the downsides and the thought of an innocent person being dragged through the mud is horrifying. But unfortunately everything is a tradeoff and I don't see how keeping it under wraps is a better solution. That's how things worked in the past and it let a lot of abusers go undiscovered and unpunished (example A: the Catholic Church).
 
But it is still not made public at that time, which is key. I am a mental health counselor. Those of us who work in this field work with very unstable people. Imagine the damage that could be caused if every complaint was made public? Even if people are cleared and found innocent, people still tend to believe that that person did something wrong to be accused.

It really is a very tough line to walk.

At the beginning of any complaint ( not talking just about John here), there is no way to know where the truth lies.

The victim has to be believed. Any possible other future or further victims have to be protected. But at the same time, the defendant also needs support, just in case of a false claim.

I know someone mentioned ( without scrolling back) something along the lines of prefering to investigate many false claims rather than let a potential abuser to continue, but at the same time, a false claim could be horrendous. I could easily imagine someone with a false claim against them and a poor mental state or with a lack of support feeling extremely vulnerable and I’d hate to think how that could end too.

I’m not saying people making claims shouldn’t be believed, they absolutely should. Nobody wants a repeat of what has happened. I’m just saying people need to proceed with caution.
 
Time for this thread to be closed, the facts are out there (that there’s been a “complaint”) and in this case, idle speculation is not really necessary.

Unless there is an official development on this story, further threads will be deleted.
 
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