OSIC ruling: Nikolaj Soerensen suspended for a minimum of 6 years

skatfan

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That's assuming she wants to move on. I get that a lot of people here believe that is what she SHOULD do, but that may not be what she wants to do. We are not inside that relationship she has with Nik and she could very well be like thousands of other women who stand by their man even when everyone knows he's a sexual predator.
It’s probably touch and go as to whether she stays with him. Unless the evidence is overwhelming (Harvey Weinstein and Georgina Chapman), leaving can seem like a nuclear bomb to one’s life. At least there are no children.
 

Bigbird

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If Nikolaj continues to be treated as he was at IAM after the complaint against him was filed, I imagine that Laurence might also worry about what would happen to her career if she broke up with him.
She needn't worry. She'd be in excellent company. An IAM skater who retired some time ago found his behaviour sketchy at times. It just seems counter-culture atm as we tend to excel at victim shaming when it comes to rape. We cannot believe that this handsome, well-spoken, man could do such a thing. It happens all over the world. She has a difficult decision to make, I hope she chooses wisely. She's a great ice dancer and he was holding her back significantly. She has at least three good seasons to make her mark. Otherwise, the new couples will steal her thunder.
 

overedge

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She needn't worry. She'd be in excellent company. An IAM skater who retired some time ago found his behaviour sketchy at times. It just seems counter-culture atm as we tend to excel at victim shaming when it comes to rape. We cannot believe that this handsome, well-spoken, man could do such a thing. It happens all over the world. She has a difficult decision to make, I hope she chooses wisely. She's a great ice dancer and he was holding her back significantly. She has at least three good seasons to make her mark. Otherwise, the new couples will steal her thunder.

This has nothing to do with victim shaming.

The powers that be at IAM supported him and let him keep training and coaching after the assault complaint was filed. I would not be surprised at all, now that the penalty has been imposed, if their attitude is "the process was unfair" or "we have all made mistakes in the past". If she breaks up with him, that may not sit well with IAM, and that may affect her chances of getting another partner, at least from that club/school.

Also, as was previously mentioned, he seems to have some control/boundary issues with his behaviour toward her, at least in public. It could be a big blow to his ego if she teamed up with another partner and was successful with them.
 

kwanfan1818

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I think IAM's loyalty has always been to her. Unless his suspension is overturned on appeal, their partnership is over. I think they'll be behind what she wants. i know this is unusual in skating, but in this case, I don't think they'd pressure her to stay with him personally or professionally if they can no longer compete.
 

Debbie S

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She is the elite skater that started their school
Actually, it was Nik who was one of Marie-France/Patrice's first students. Laurence didn't start working with them until she and Nik teamed up. Which would explain Marie-France's loyalty to him, on display publicly in the K&C at Worlds. I'm sure they aren't happy with the ban and think Nik was unfairly treated, but I don't think they have a choice about complying with the ban, so I would expect he won't be coaching at IAM, at least not until his ban is over.

Laurence could coach, but I think there was a comment in another thread that she was more interested in being an athletic trainer than an on-ice coach.
 

marbri

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Actually, it was Nik who was one of Marie-France/Patrice's first students. Laurence didn't start working with them until she and Nik teamed up. Which would explain Marie-France's loyalty to him, on display publicly in the K&C at Worlds. I'm sure they aren't happy with the ban and think Nik was unfairly treated, but I don't think they have a choice about complying with the ban, so I would expect he won't be coaching at IAM, at least not until his ban is over.

Laurence could coach, but I think there was a comment in another thread that she was more interested in being an athletic trainer than an on-ice coach.
MF and Patrice have been working with Laurence for at least as long as they have been working with Nik. They were were choreographing for her and her previous partner since at least 2009/10 season. That is the season he started skating with Katelyn Good but I am not sure if they trained with MF and Patrice that season or the following season as they also trained a season in the US with Matthew Gates.
 

pointbleu

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Actually, it was Nik who was one of Marie-France/Patrice's first students. Laurence didn't start working with them until she and Nik teamed up. Which would explain Marie-France's loyalty to him, on display publicly in the K&C at Worlds. I'm sure they aren't happy with the ban and think Nik was unfairly treated, but I don't think they have a choice about complying with the ban, so I would expect he won't be coaching at IAM, at least not until his ban is over.

Laurence could coach, but I think there was a comment in another thread that she was more interested in being an athletic trainer than an on-ice coach.
How would you have behaved as a coach then? When you don’t know all the info, but there’s a World championship where your students are expected to farewell?
It’s easy to criticize when you know all the facts afterwards. In the meantime as a coach, I’d keep his head ready to compete and then deal with the whole story afterwards.

It might be a cultural thing… but I sure don’t understand how you think Laurence would be dumped by IAM was she to break with Nikolai. That’s not how it works here.
 

Debbie S

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It might be a cultural thing… but I sure don’t understand how you think Laurence would be dumped by IAM was she to break with Nikolai. That’s not how it works here.
Not sure if this is supposed to be a direct reply to me but I never said that.
 
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kwanfan1818

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According to this 2017 interview, they trained with Gates in Connecticut until her mother became ill. Sorensen said,

And then I found a Canadian partner, Katelyn Good – and we skated together for three years, 2009, 2010 and 2011. She came to Connecticut from Canada, and, two years into our training, her mom got sick and her family wanted her to move back to Montreal. And so Mathew has told me: I know that Marie and Patch [Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon] just quit their professional career and they’re setting up a school in Montreal. I think you can learn a lot from them. That was in 2010. And he said: If you have to move to Canada, which I understand, it’s a family problem with your partner, please go to them. Cause I trust them, and I think they can make you a really good skater.
 

Karen-W

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How would you have behaved as a coach then? When you don’t know all the info, but there’s a World championship where your students are expected to farewell?
Except they DIDN'T make their farewell there. I daresay had they retired after Montreal Worlds the reaction in the general skating fandom may be different - or perhaps more muted. But they didn't. And that really pissed a lot of fans off because it seemed like a further doubling down on his loud protestations of innocence that do not seem to be true at all based on what information has leaked out regarding the investigation.
 

overedge

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How would you have behaved as a coach then? When you don’t know all the info, but there’s a World championship where your students are expected to farewell?
It’s easy to criticize when you know all the facts afterwards. In the meantime as a coach, I’d keep his head ready to compete and then deal with the whole story afterwards.

Systems like OSIC don't proceed with a full investigation of a complaint unless there is enough evidence to suggest that the complaint has some substance. A coach might not know all the information, but they should be sensitive to the reality that their student is being investigated for a very serious issue.

A coach should also be sensitive to the reality that it creates a negative perception to pretend that nothing has happened. It's also a reality that some viewers/spectators might not agree with having an accused rapist in the competition and/or representing their country at an international event.

There are different ways to handle that difficult situation, but I don't agree that "dealing with the whole story afterwards" is how it should be handled.
 
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SkateFanBerlin

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Something to think about. Why is it after the abuse decision we hear no "deport the guy; deport all from Denmark, they`re dangerous"? Good example of how white, 1st world dangerous individuals are treated preferably. If he was from Syria, CAR, or San Salvador the issue of race/culture would be woven into the reporting.
 

Karen-W

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Something to think about. Why is it after the abuse decision we hear no "deport the guy; deport all from Denmark, they`re dangerous"? Good example of how white, 1st world dangerous individuals are treated preferably. If he was from Syria, CAR, or San Salvador the issue of race/culture would be woven into the reporting.
Except he is already a Canadian citizen and most of us understand that he can't have his citizenship revoked and be deported? :rolleyes:
 

PRlady

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Except he is already a Canadian citizen and most of us understand that he can't have his citizenship revoked and be deported? :rolleyes:
This is for PI, folks, where immigration is hotly debated. It’s a legitimate point since some agitate for deporting naturalized immigrants all the time, at least in the US, but not in this thread.
 

Andora

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How would you have behaved as a coach then? When you don’t know all the info, but there’s a World championship where your students are expected to farewell?
It’s easy to criticize when you know all the facts afterwards. In the meantime as a coach, I’d keep his head ready to compete and then deal with the whole story afterwards.

Systems like OSIC don't proceed with a full investigation of a complaint unless there is enough evidence to suggest that the complaint has some substance. A coach might not know all the information, but they should be sensitive to the reality that their student is being investigated for a very serious issue.

A coach should also be sensitive to the reality that it creates a negative perception to pretend that nothing has happened. It's also a reality that some viewers/spectators might not agree with having an accused rapist in the competition and/or representing their country at an international event.

There are different ways to handle that difficult situation, but I don't agree that "dealing with the whole story afterwards" is how it should be handled.

I think IAM didn't need to be so fervent in their support of Nikolaj, absolutely. I'm sure it's part loyalty, disbelief in who he is, etc. Also, Marie France & Patrice are not so young to avoid bad attitudes about Sexual Assault. (And I've had at least two friends tell me it's a "Quebec thing", which...)

I also think coaches stay loyal to their students pragmatically as well, when it's in the investigation stage. It's a question of do they lose more potential students by staying loyal, or by tossing out the accused? In skating, I don't know the answer regardless of what I think it should be.

To me, the IAM of it all underlines how things need to keep evolving in skating, and I think this decision by OSIC is a step in the right direction. Canada and the US are maligned for not taking things like this seriously enough, and it's fair. But other Federations/nations in the ISU are much worse, and I'm not talking small ones. This school was considered a step away from the North American Russian schools, where all sorts of stories have come out about partner abuse, etc. And it turns out, it wasn't enough of a step away.
 

escaflowne9282

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Except he is already a Canadian citizen and most of us understand that he can't have his citizenship revoked and be deported? :rolleyes:
I'd also add that OSIC is not law enforcement. Nikolaj has essentially been forbidden from participating in figure skating as a coach or competitor ; he has not been thrown in jail or criminally charged or even been the subject of a police report. Even for those who want to deport naturalized citizens, the argument would be very difficult to make even if the sentiment is understandable.
 

kwanfan1818

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This school was considered a step away from the North American Russian schools, where all sorts of stories have come out about partner abuse, etc. And it turns out, it wasn't enough of a step away.
There's nothing in what's been made public about his case that ties him to sexual assault in Montreal. What OSIC was investigating, unless I'm mistaken, is sexual assault in CT.

Partner abuse can overlap with sexual assault, but also includes psychological and other physical abuse. That's separate from this OSIC investigation, but from descriptions of his controlling behavior towards Fournier-Beaudry, they clearly ignored the context in which to at least consider the original allegations and then what the OSIC case revealed, rather than circling the wagons.
 

platniumangel

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There's nothing in what's been made public about his case that ties him to sexual assault in Montreal. What OSIC was investigating, unless I'm mistaken, is sexual assault in CT.

Partner abuse can overlap with sexual assault, but also includes psychological and other physical abuse. That's separate from this OSIC investigation, but from descriptions of his controlling behavior towards Fournier-Beaudry, they clearly ignored the context in which to at least consider the original allegations and then what the OSIC case revealed, rather than circling the wagons.

Sorensen was already living and training in Montreal by 2012. Not sure why he was back in Connecticut. We know many of these sexual assault cases can occur when skaters are away from home. At competition, training camp, etc.
 

kwanfan1818

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Sorensen was already living and training in Montreal by 2012. Not sure why he was back in Connecticut. We know many of these sexual assault cases can occur when skaters are away from home. At competition, training camp, etc.
Yes, but it means it wouldn't have been under their nose, and there was no reason for them to suspect it. If there was a "rapist" halo that was visible and followed him home, it would have made all of this a lot easier.

Partnership abuse scenario often plays out day-to-day right in the coaches' field of vision.
 

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