Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[starrynight]

Basically, the purpose of the online attacks is to try to punish skaters into suffering mental anguish/ anxiety/depression for liking or posting tributes to John in the aftermath of the incident. Now the question is whether doing that could possibly hope to achieve the overall goal of safety in sports? It’s just adding new abuse and suffering to the story. It’s also a loaded situation because it’s a really good excuse for people to attack skaters they don’t like too and to just be aggressive. Which I think was a significant factor in that list being compiled in the first place. The thing originated on a Tumblr blog.

 

[believed]

Some of you guys act like that list was calling for everyone to go and attack the names on it. It was a list created to keep track of who has shown support in varying degrees and it can be used to inform your decision on how you view these skaters. As someone who has been following a bunch of those skaters on the list, I've seen their tribute posts and their support posts and their likes on different posts. It's made me nauseous. Seeing the names of those who have denied that there were complaints and that have blamed the victims made me nauseous. That list isn't trying to "punish skaters into suffering mental anguish/ anxiety/depression for liking or posting tributes to John in the aftermath of the incident." I want these skaters to do better and to realize that their positions of fame, with the followings that they have, mean that their words and actions have more public consequences. There have been a lot of users who have said these things better than I have and I hope that you take their words into account.

 

[Stephori]

Where is this trash list being talked about?

What does a brand manager of wilson blades , a job john had, actually do?

 

[VGThuy]

That list was a list of "Trash skaters" and was written in an inflammatory way. It was compiled by an author who remained anonymous because that person knew that list would result in some real controversy as it would be revving the easy young social media skating fans to act first and attack skaters, which is what they did. I think that's convenient to hold skaters up to a higher standard than people hold themselves to considering some of the behavior and posts I've seen online. Some can't even engage in a good faith discussion and instead attack anyone who disagrees with them. Some of the things they are saying and doing to skaters who did not do anything on the level of Delilah or said anything to discredit or undermine the victims really is harassment and they are not watching how harmful or triggering their actions can be to those skaters.

They are riding this ego-driven campaign without stopping to think or discuss things. It's also true that for some of these people, the list may be used as a convenient way to attack skaters they don't already like and are hiding behind false concern over the victims to do so. Not all of them, but some. Some are using this to work out issues that they personally have and feel important when skaters reach out to them to be "educated" with tears emojis and all that. It's quite a display in self-centeredness and egoism from some of these social media warriors and they want to follow the formula of outrage turning into shame from their victim turning into apologies from skater/celeb turning into that celeb/skater wanting to "learn" and be educated by the person who is actually scaring them to that person who was outraged at first now shifting the power dynamic into their favor and feeling good they received attention from that skater/celeb and will teach them something. It's typical. Some people are authentically concerned but many are just using it to promote themselves and join a mob.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I don't agree at all. I am all over social media these days, what with being in the job market, and all my friends and acquaintances know how much I love figure skating. Not a single person has sent me a link, nor have I seen any links popping up as "something you might like" or sponsored content on my Twitter or Facebook feeds. I'm just not seeing this story being the major story of the news cycle (that all belongs to the continuing gov't shutdown) let alone garnering anywhere close to the same level of public interest as 1994. Heck, it isn't even getting the same attention that the Nasser story had, especially last summer, the Ronan Farrow piece on Harvey Weinstein, or the Bill Cosby accusations.

It's not at the same level as the Tonya/Nancy story, and certainly not Nassar, but it is picking up steam as we move into US Nationals. I expect we'll see more this week. It was coming up on my Twitter on several days since his suicide. It's been in People, USA Today, and the Daily Mail, Entertainment Tonight, and TMZ, as well as in Japanese and Russian news outlets. It was also put out on the AP wire and picked up by many news sources, including CBS, CNN, the LA Times. But it's not the "major news story of the cycle", no.

 

[rfisher]

IMHO, the trash list compiled by a fan, is in poor taste and should not have been posted. However, the statements being made by Deliliah Sappenfield, calling the supposedly anonymous victims liars, is a whole different issue, given her responsibility as a mandated reporter to SafeSport and her position in the USFSA. I hope there are professional consequences for her. It is beyond being irresponsible.

 

[MK's Winter]

I will agree that social media on this has become out of hand. I stand by the interim measure being public- I am someone who also understands that it doesn’t mean guilt. I also understand that parents deserve the option. Even when it was raised to a suspension I held back opinion. I know for the complaintants and for John the process had to play out. Again- look at Alex Naddour. But also look at others. Coaches take safe sport training. I don’t buy this whole we don’t know.

I look at this as a USFS failure. I find it hard to believe they haven’t been tracking the happenings of other NGB’s over the last 2 years. You can sit and be complacent or you can strike first and review and revamp polices. Make them clear. Outline the terms and the process. Safe Sport has enough to do as the sole investigation on these cases. USFS should have stepped up. They didn’t. And that is their failure. Again- where is the adult in the room.

You look at the struggles of Gracie. The post retirement views of Ashley. The story of Mirai’s depression from 2014. Josh Farris and his career ending injury, And many others. I am aware that these athletes put a lot into skating. I often wonder why all eggs are placed in that basket. That starts at the parent level. I feel like you can love and work to excel at something but have an understanding that it’s not do or die. It’s like the song says- there gotta be more to life. And there is. I have pondered that with Coughlin, allegations aside. The death of a parent. Not making an Olympic team. I’m not trying to speculate but those thoughts have crossed my mind and what does the USFS do in terms of career transition. Protect them while the represent you. Be a part of the transition when they are done. That helps build balance. They don’t even do that. And now everyone is up in arms, all over the map. Systemic failure. There is no one to blame but the one that governs it all.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

What does a brand manager of wilson blades , a job john had, actually do?

Based on what I know of HD Sports, which owns MK and John Wilson, it seems to be a small organization (in terms of its backend/office functions) with most people working there having little, if any, work experience before they started working there. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; it's just that it may indicate a very hands-on culture, which hints at what a Brand Manager there might be doing.

Often these factors would indicate that their Brand Manager has ties to everything related to marketing, for lower pay compared to what someone with that title might make at a larger company. A Brand Manager at an organization like this would often be involved in everything from new product development to promotion to pricing to gaining distribution. He'd be deeply connected to sales, going to events, going on sales calls with the sales people, putting together product information, working to design websites and doing social media (perhaps by himself, or if he has a budget, using an agency), working on designing print materials (again, perhaps by himself, or managing artists if they have the budget for that), tracking spending and budgets, etc. However, I don't know if John was a traditional Brand Manager, or if he was more of a "Brand Ambassador", which is a different thing; so I can't tell you for sure if this is what he did.

 

[gkelly]

I'm troubled by how this process was handled for Coughlin too - but basically, the social media attacks didn't help him and don't help his accusers.

When do social media attacks, ever, in any situation, ever help anyone?

 

[BittyBug]

Be a part of the transition when they are done. That helps build balance. They don’t even do that. And now everyone is up in arms, all over the map. Systemic failure. There is no one to blame but the one that governs it all.

I have long wished that US Figure Skating had a broader scope but as a non-profit, US Figure Skating is required to stick to its mission, and providing transition assistance to athletes once they are done with the sport is not within their mission. USFS exists to govern the sport, and once athletes are done with the sport, those athletes no longer fall under the domain of governance, unless they are serving on a USFS committee. But it is simply not the role of USFS to prepare skaters for life after skating. That can seem cold, cruel and uncaring, but it's how they are structured.

Perhaps the role you are seeking them to play would be better served by a mutual aid society organized by members of the skating community or the USOC since the issues skaters face when leaving the sport are not unique to figure skating. There is definitely a gap, and the recent convergence of events may lead to something cropping up to fill that gap, but I'm not sure that it's fair to lay the blame at USFS when they are not currently charged with those responsibilities.

(And for the record, I am not particularly a fan of US Figure Skating, so it's odd that I have now twice defended them in this thread.)

 

[AnnM]

I see Jonny Weir has clapped back on Twitter.

ETA: He deleted it.

That's totally his m.o. I'm glad it's not up anymore as I felt it was very disrespectful to the victims, but I also hope someone at NBC has a talk with him lest he spout off something similar during Nationals coverage.

 

[insideedgeua]

Can somebody please answer this question?

No he was not. If he happened to be in Colorado Springs he might drop in, but he was not at all regular part of the program there.

 

[MK's Winter]

I have long wished that US Figure Skating had a broader scope but as a non-profit, US Figure Skating is required to stick to its mission, and providing transition assistance to athletes once they are done with the sport is not within their mission. USFS exists to govern the sport, and once athletes are done with the sport, those athletes no longer fall under the domain of governance, unless they are serving on a USFS committee. But it is simply not the role of USFS to prepare skaters for life after skating. That can seem cold, cruel and uncaring, but it's how they are structured.

Perhaps the role you are seeking them to play would be better served by a mutual aid society organized by members of the skating community or the USOC since the issues skaters face when leaving the sport are not unique to figure skating. There is definitely a gap, and the recent convergence of events may lead to something cropping up to fill that gap, but I'm not sure that it's fair to lay the blame at USFS when they are not currently charged with those responsibilities.

(And for the record, I am not particularly a fan of US Figure Skating, so it's odd that I have now twice defended them in this thread.)

They run the same way they have for decades. Organizations re-structure all the time as dynamics shift. They are no exception.

 

[Kasey]

Innocent people who feel that their lives have been unalterably damaged kill themselves. I don't see Coughlin's final act being one necessarily of guilt. As to the rest of it, all parties involved are obviously hurting, and hurting people do stupid and harsh things. I don't feel like right now, in the heat of the moment, is the time to make judgements or decisions about anyone's behavior. But, that's just IMO, of course.

 

[attyfan]

It’s a product of our times that people go on the attack on social media with no mercy. There’s real culture of anger and outrage. Technology dehumanises the targets - I doubt they could say these things to the skaters’ faces.
...

IMO, social media creates a lot of new dangers when accusations are reported before the facts are known. For example, in the area where I live there was an incident about 30 years ago where the local paper ran a huge headlines that a serial rapist had been captured only to have to run another headline that DNA evidence had cleared the guy. He was able to re-build his life by moving -- because the mud started by the original story didn't spread. Due to social media, the option of moving is largely no longer available -- because the mud of the accusation spreads, even if later disproved.

I wish SafeSport had some kind of policy as to when law enforcement is notified. If, for example, their rules said that "law enforcement is notified if a complaint sets forth a criminal offense" and the publicly accessible website noted merely "sexual misconduct -- law enforcement not notified", then SafeSport has effectively told the world that the complaint did not involve rape or any other crime.

 

[leafygreens]

IMHO, Delilah has gone off the deep end. She is letting her emotions get the best of her. Ive been there, too many times. You have someone special in your life commit suicide. Its something you really dont get over. My guess is that JC told her the situation from his perspective and she believed him and will continue to believe to the very end. I think it would be tragic if she or anyone tries to confront the accuser. That is what needs to be addressed

USFSA or PSA need to step in. Make it known the public lashing out, from she AND her students, needs to stop. Her emotional comments have now hit People magazine and reflect on the organizations. I believe USFSA/PSA should have some authority here. Offer counseling if necessary - she is obviously going through a hard time. But it is not acceptable to make students, alleged victims and future victims feel uncomfortable.

If you think what happened to John Coughlin amounts to discomfort and inconvenience.......That is NUTS. He lost all ability to earn a living in anything related to skating for at least as long as the investigation would take. Some of the pending cases on SafeSport are almost a year old. This is an exceedingly long timeframe in which to conduct investigations and force people away from their jobs and livelihood. Even if cleared by SafeSport, he would likely never get some of those positions, like brand manager for JW Blades, back. His reputation would never be restored. Many people would still not go to him for coaching due to the court of public opinion judgement. This is not something someone can just "get over." This is way beyond discomfort or inconvenience. It, in fact, just drove a young man to suicide. I would say that is a lot more than discomfort or inconvenience. It is in actuality a highly traumatic event. Yes, being a survivor of abuse is extremely traumatic. While many are able to move past it, they never get over it. This cannot be minimized. People who are convicted and are guilty deserve extremely harsh consequences. This needs to be balanced with the realization that in rare circumstances, people can be and are falsely accused. A false accusation of sexual assault/ abuse is traumatic and life destroying, and we should not be any more okay with even one person being falsely accused of assault than we are with people being assaulted.

With all due respect, all coaches understand they fall under Safe Sport auspices, and by participating in coaching, agree to the system in place. While any accusation is going to be rare (false accusations even rarer), coaches understand that it's a possibility that if accused, they are subject to the Safe Sport rules (and the fallout that would ensue on their personal lives.)

John had only been investigated for three months. We don't know how much longer it would have continued, because he decided to no longer participate in the investigation. There is no reason to think that if exonerated, he wouldn't have gotten his jobs back and come back even stronger than before. Perhaps even a lawsuit against any possible false allegations.

As for his reputation being restored, you can't control public opinion or which way the wind blows. An accusation is not a conviction, and rational people understand this. But accusations still must be made public, in case they become a conviction.

@Vera Costa From my perspective, it's entirely possible that the skaters are not mentioning the victims because they're too shocked to do so quite yet. That's why I think it's appropriate to give them time: give them the time to process the situation more thoroughly and go through the stages of grieving before addressing the other very difficult part of the situation publicly. As I've said before I'm sure they'll comfort the victim in private before they say anything publicly. For all we know they're already having a private dialogue with him or her.
Besides, they can't win. If they address the victim now the same trolls who are berating them now will then say they're only talking about the victim to get good will back. Or maybe what they say (or even saying how they know the victim) will cause the victim's identity to be released and they don't want that.

Well known skaters are learning a hard lesson. Not everything they post is going to be loved by everyone or seen the same way that they do, especially on such an emotional and controversial topic as this. If they "need time," then keep the posts private, not public, or don't post at all.

It seems like these skaters, because of "their truth" that John was a nice guy, give the appearance that they have no empathy for those who see it, or possibly experienced it, the other way. The real truth is, that possibility exists (and due to the suicide, will always exist), regardless if it's "their" truth.

 

[PRlady]

It's not at the same level as the Tonya/Nancy story, and certainly not Nassar, but it is picking up steam as we move into US Nationals. I expect we'll see more this week. It was coming up on my Twitter on several days since his suicide. It's been in People, USA Today, and the Daily Mail, Entertainment Tonight, and TMZ, as well as in Japanese and Russian news outlets. It was also put out on the AP wire and picked up by many news sources, including CBS, CNN, the LA Times. But it's not the "major news story of the cycle", no.

I was stunned to see it in the Hebrew-language Haaretz. There are about ten people in Israel who care about figure skating and half of them are on FSU.

 

[judiz]

When someone you know dies, your first reaction is to say positive things about that person, especially if all your interactions were positive. Unless you live with someone 24/7, you have no idea what demons they are battling, or what impulses they fight everyday or give in to.

After my husband committed suicide, every one told me how wonderful he was, how sweet he was, how gentle he was. That was his public face. They didn’t live with the mental illness, the controlling, the threats etc.

 

[mag]

I wish SafeSport had some kind of policy as to when law enforcement is notified. If, for example, their rules said that "law enforcement is notified if a complaint sets forth a criminal offense" and the publicly accessible website noted merely "sexual misconduct -- law enforcement not notified", then SafeSport has effectively told the world that the complaint did not involve rape or any other crime.

So what about the times law enforcement is notified? Have you considered what would happen in those cases? Actually in this case where I believe it has been reported that law enforcement was notified? You can’t have it both ways.

 

[skatingguy]

I wish SafeSport had some kind of policy as to when law enforcement is notified. If, for example, their rules said that "law enforcement is notified if a complaint sets forth a criminal offense" and the publicly accessible website noted merely "sexual misconduct -- law enforcement not notified", then SafeSport has effectively told the world that the complaint did not involve rape or any other crime.

The problem is that each state will have it's own requirements for reporting, and so the matter has to be dealt with on a case by case basis depending on the laws of the jurisdiction in question.

 

[MsZem]

I wish SafeSport had some kind of policy as to when law enforcement is notified. If, for example, their rules said that "law enforcement is notified if a complaint sets forth a criminal offense" and the publicly accessible website noted merely "sexual misconduct -- law enforcement not notified", then SafeSport has effectively told the world that the complaint did not involve rape or any other crime.

Of course, if the complaint does involve more serious allegations that cannot ultimately be corroborated...

I think the best way for SafeSport to handle such matters is to suspend anyone under investigation, period. Don't have different types of interim measures. When making suspensions public, emphasize that an investigation is not a finding of culpability and that there are different types of misconduct that the organization investigates and adjudicates. Until a finding is made, provide (or give referrals to) appropriate resources to both the accusers and the accused.

I was stunned to see it in the Hebrew-language Haaretz. There are about ten people in Israel who care about figure skating and half of them are on FSU.

I was sent a link from Ynet by a friend.

 

[attyfan]

When law enforcement is investigating an alleged crime, certain rights of the accused are triggered (ex: "Miranda" warnings if a custodial interrogation). When a private organization, such as SafeSport is investigating, there are all sorts of complications if the results are to be used in a criminal case. Furthermore, law enforcement usually has a lot of resources (if not experience) in terms of dealing with the press, etc. that a comparatively new organization, such as SafeSport, is not likely to have.

 

[AxelAnnie]

When law enforcement is investigating an alleged crime, certain rights of the accused are triggered (ex: "Miranda" warnings if a custodial interrogation). When a private organization, such as SafeSport is investigating, there are all sorts of complications if the results are to be used in a criminal case. Furthermore, law enforcement usually has a lot of resources (if not experience) in terms of dealing with the press, etc. that a comparatively new organization, such as SafeSport, is not likely to have.

Well, they best get them.

 

[nlloyd]

That list was a list of "Trash skaters" and was written in an inflammatory way. It was compiled by an author who remained anonymous because that person knew that list would result in some real controversy as it would be revving the easy young social media skating fans to act first and attack skaters, which is what they did. I think that's convenient to hold skaters up to a higher standard than people hold themselves to considering some of the behavior and posts I've seen online. Some can't even engage in a good faith discussion and instead attack anyone who disagrees with them. Some of the things they are saying and doing to skaters who did not do anything on the level of Delilah or said anything to discredit or undermine the victims really is harassment and they are not watching how harmful or triggering their actions can be to those skaters.

They are riding this ego-driven campaign without stopping to think or discuss things. It's also true that for some of these people, the list may be used as a convenient way to attack skaters they don't already like and are hiding behind false concern over the victims to do so. Not all of them, but some. Some are using this to work out issues that they personally have and feel important when skaters reach out to them to be "educated" with tears emojis and all that. It's quite a display in self-centeredness and egoism from some of these social media warriors and they want to follow the formula of outrage turning into shame from their victim turning into apologies from skater/celeb turning into that celeb/skater wanting to "learn" and be educated by the person who is actually scaring them to that person who was outraged at first now shifting the power dynamic into their favor and feeling good they received attention from that skater/celeb and will teach them something. It's typical. Some people are authentically concerned but many are just using it to promote themselves and join a mob.

I agree that the list was inflammatory and not at all helpful. However, I respectfully disagree with the idea that it was developed as a way for fans to attack skaters they didn't like or that it is primarily ego-driven. My reading of social media around the list and those who distributed it, is that it was an extreme attempt by those who have been sexually abused or who are friends/family of those who have been, to try to get the attention of a figure skating community that seemed intent on valorising a person they see as an abuser.

If you look at this Twitter account, for example: https://twitter.com/SansaStarkss, you can see that within hours of the news of Coughlin's suicide being known, this individual tweeted: "I wanted to be one of the first to say this because I don’t want the survivors of his abuse to get lost in any discussion that takes place about this. Please be mindful of them, and what they have been through, and are continuing to go through" 10:19 PM - 18 Jan 2019.

This individual was one of the very first to post on social media after the announcement of Coughlin's death and has been a strong presence throughout the discussion. I don't think she is doing this because she is ego-driven or wants a reason to attack skaters she doesn't support. She, and others like her, are reading this through the lens of sexual abuse, the willful refusal to take victims seriously, and the recent exposure of the prevalence of sexual abuse. I personally think it is premature to characterize Coughlin as an "abuser," but I do think we need to take very seriously the fact that there were three allegations of sexual misconduct levied against him, two involving minors. I agree with the sentiment that we should be mindful of the complainants. For me the broader context is thus a society in which sexual misconduct has been show to be far more prevalent than many expected and in which many allegations have been shown to be willfully ignored. Egotism or fandom just doesn't explain the sustained anger, in my opinion.

 

[platniumangel]

When law enforcement is investigating an alleged crime, certain rights of the accused are triggered (ex: "Miranda" warnings if a custodial interrogation). When a private organization, such as SafeSport is investigating, there are all sorts of complications if the results are to be used in a criminal case. Furthermore, law enforcement usually has a lot of resources (if not experience) in terms of dealing with the press, etc. that a comparatively new organization, such as SafeSport, is not likely to have.

I wish we knew more about how SafeSport conducts investigations other than interviewing people. For example: do they have authority to request/review video footage, text messaging, review social media, etc? I think this type of evidence would come in to play with many types of cases they handle.

 

[mag]

Well, they best get them.

If only it were that simple. Somebody has to pay for that. Perhaps you would agree to a tax increase which would allow for government funding?

 

[kittyjake5]

This thread for me has run its course. It has provided me with the facts as it has been reported
by Safesport and the press. I have read the opinions on what folks think should have been done to protect
the victims and the accused. Now it seems to have taken a turn. It is not my place to expect people to act or conduct
themselves a certain way in this situation based on one's personal feelings and opinions.

Lastly I do not know John personally or the victims. I feel compassion for victims of any type of abuse whether it is sexual, physical
or emotional and compassion for John's family for their loss.

 

[AxelAnnie]

If only it were that simple. Somebody has to pay for that. Perhaps you would agree to a tax increase which would allow for government funding?

If they do not have the funding to properly do what they are doing, they should not be doing it.

 

[Frau Muller]

I’m guessing that we’re approaching a record # of posts for a thread on Great Skate Debate, yes? Whenever I put away the SmartPhone for a couple of hours of real work, I come back to 20 new posts. Sigh; sad but interesting reading,

 

[Deleted member 221]

Regardless of what Dalilah Sappenfield has said on social media (I haven't looked), her comments to People are OK, in my view.

“Being shunned for allegations not proven was something I knew was hard for him to live with, but the mere rumors of assault and not being given the opportunity to defend himself is what sent him over the edge,” she added. “I certainly support that abuse of any kind should never be tolerated and that victims should have a vehicle to address and stop abuse. However, it is my sincere hope that through John’s tragic death, we can build awareness to bring change to the process of investigation so that BOTH parties could exercise their constitutional rights to due process and privacy.”

I'm not sure what specifically she means by her sentence begnning with "however," and I disagree with it if it means that no interim action can be taken until the end of an investigation. That said, this is worded respectfully and doesn't shame the victims. If she sticks to this message, I can "agree to disagree" with her.