Canadian Pairs 2019/2020 Season News and Updates

[Vase]

Any of the skaters who have byes to Nationals can choose to compete at the Challenge. Nam Nguyen didn't need to compete either, but I guess that they wanted another competition before Canadians. There are only 3 other senior teams so all the entries for have qualified, and for junior there were 13 teams at Challenge so I would think that the top 12 would advance, but I'm not sure if there are any byes.

But junior pairs one team will go to youth Olympics and not attend Nationals. I assume it’s Brooke and Brandon, Camille is the only other age eligible team.

 

[Xsktrx]

But junior pairs one team will go to youth Olympics and not attend Nationals. I assume it’s Brooke and Brandon, Camille is the only other age eligible team.

Youth Olympics might explain why Brooke took the year off from competing singles given there is no indication she has been injured. Focus was perhaps on producing the best pairs programs they could hoping they were selected to represent Canada. That freeskate indicates it might have been a good plan.

 

[Rafter]

Andrew and Daleman are not from Oakville, they represent Hamilton. Brandon does represent Oakville but Brooke is CIA and they train there for pair. The only top 3 team from Oakville was Carle/Farlan

It seems to me that there’s some team coaching going on with Andrew Evans, AllPurkiss and Brian Shales (and I assume Marcotte). Purkiss and Evans were sitting with Andrew/Daleman in the K&C.

 

[Xsktrx]

It seems to me that there’s some team coaching going on with Andrew Evans, AllPurkiss and Brian Shales (and I assume Marcotte). Purkiss and Evans were sitting with Andrew/Daleman in the K&C.

I noticed that as well. In the kiss and cry I have seen Purkiss with Evans, Brooke/Brandon and Evans with Purkis, Patricia/Zach and as well Walsh/Michaud. Looks like some collaboration between the two coaches. 1st in Sr pairs at Challenge and 1st, 2nd in Jr Pairs suggests it could be working.

 

[Skate Talker]

Does anyone know why Walsh/Michaud had to compete at Qualifying when they competed on the GP? Which junior and senior Canadian teams made the cut for Canadian Nationals?

I'm thinking that in addition to just getting another comp under their belts, they may have particularly wanted to compete their new short program again before nationals.

 

[Vase]

When she's at her best, vaguely reminiscent of a young Sale, but not quite ready for that comparison yet.

As for him, that smile is painted on. Either that or someone rammed a coat hanger into his mouth. Nothing authentic about it - almost to the point of being a little creepy - but he's trying.

Definitely see a resemblance of a young Sale, seems to be finding a groove with the new partnership with Zachary. Hoping to see more strength and growth from the junior pairs at Nationals.

 

[aftershocks]

Walsh/Michaud look a lot more comfortable with the new sp, which is a return to a more lyrical style that seems to suit them. Evelyn was a bit shaky and tentative on the jumps and throws for some reason. I was watching Trennt and he just blows my mind with how good a pairs guy he is. I mean he throws Evelyn in the air like she weighs nothing, and like he has plenty of time to eat a sandwich and have a drink before tenderly catching her and setting her down lightly.

I'd love to be in Trennt's very capable hands if I were a pairs girl, or even if I'm not! Kaetlyn is one lucky sweetheart. I'm sure Trennt feels he's lucky too. ♥

And watch Trennt on the lifts too. At one point in the fp, with only one arm he holds Evelyn up with graceful nonchalance. He makes it look smooth and easy, displaying such calm steadiness, gorgeous posture, and exceptional footwork. Trennt landed the jumps easily too in unhurried fashion (despite Evelyn having issues). I could be wrong of course, but this pairing doesn't seem as if it will go very far. They already seem to be plateauing competitively.

Trennt is way too good of a pairs partner to have the type of career which dogged another great mid-sized pairs guy: Rockne Brubaker. What I mean is that Brubaker was an excellent pairs guy who had success in juniors, but then his partner burned out after they missed their first anticipated Olympics. Rockne ended up with another very good partner who was much younger. They were on their way to great success but she ended up having trouble with the pressure and made the decision to stop skating in order to deal with an eating disorder. She later seemed to regret ending her career. Brubaker then tried out with Amanda Evora who had retired. They looked promising together reportedly. But logistically and personally they were unable to make the commitment. Rockne ended up with a final last resort partner with whom he didn't have much success, and then he retired to coach.

Trennt may well stay with Evelyn and give it his best shot, but I don't think they are ideally well-matched. Personality-wise, they seem great together, and they are both gritty and determined. The possibilities with KMT (as someone idealized earlier) are very intriguing because she is so rock solid as a pairs girl, and she's smaller than Evelyn. It won't likely happen because KMT seems fully committed and invested in her current partnership (and they have been gaining success through some hard work and good fortune). Trennt seems invested to this point as well with Evelyn. But if he wants to go farther in his career, it might pay off if he was able to find someone else more physically suited with great jumping skills and a determined mindset.

Oh well, Canadian fed is not Chinese fed where partner switches are demanded for the greater good. And amazing pairs girls don't grow on trees, but a no-holds barred search could be undertaken.

 

[Colonel Green]

While there are plenty of partnerships where it’s tempting to play mix-and-match and I’m uncertain about W/M’s long-term potential, both pairs and dance are plagued by male skaters who treat their female partner as completely disposable, so if nothing else I appreciate the loyalty.

The biggest thing long-term for them is improving the twist (which has been looking better this year). It’s entirely possible for teams with a taller-than-usual girl to have a solid twist (e.g., Cain/LeDuc).

 

[aftershocks]

Yeah I agree about loyalty. I was just lamenting the fact of how good a pairs partner Trennt is, so it would be a shame if he doesn't move up to more prominence internationally and make it to the Olympics. At this juncture, it doesn't look like it will be happening with Evelyn. Sure, they could get to the Olympics, but with other Canadian teams looking better than them, it's not a given. Plus, at the moment, they appear to be plateauing. No matter if they improve their twist, they don't have any great weapons or a distinct style together. They are nice to watch at times, but not very interesting together. Now that I started looking only at Trennt during their performances, I'm more enamored of how good he is. It doesn't appear to me that Trennt is the one with a problem on the twist, btw.

In addition, now that someone mentioned KMT with Trennt as an idealistic pairing, I've had a hard time keeping from salivating. It just seems to me that Michael would look better with Evelyn, and that Trennt and KMT would be fab together. But yep, it is what it is. Re Chinese fed's forced switches, while Peng/Jin are a great match, and Yu/Zhang look good together and are better suited than Peng/Zhang were, neither team has yet fulfilled their potential. We'll see what happens over the next two years for both teams leading to the Beijing Olympics.

I mentioned Brubaker because he's a mid-height pairs guy which presents difficulties in finding the right partner. Brubaker was simply unlucky because he had two very good partners physically (and one great prospect too late in his career to work out). Plus, the misfortunes with his earlier two partners were not particularly of his own making. Those splits were not about a failure of loyalty.

 

[aftershocks]

Oh also @Colonel Green, let me clarify:

It's not really height so much that I find to be an issue with Evelyn and Trennt physically. It's more that they don't have great lines together. Evelyn's body proportions are different than Trennt's. With Cain-Gribble/LeDuc, their heights and body proportions are an asset on the ice, IMO. It's a huge factor for them in that they both have nice long complementary lines (one of their more notable assets), even despite Timothy bulking up a bit for the pairs lifts. Plus, they are both great performers, they get along extremely well and they have benefited from Mozer's coaching input.

As well, Ash/Timothy progressed together very quickly, improving at every competition they entered in their first season (even winning a bronze I think at Nebelhorn), and being gutsy in putting a 3-twist in their program midway through their first season together. And they were able to incorporate difficult jumps into their programs early on, no matter that they are still working on making their jumps completely solid -- they still have them and they are fairly consistent with them. They improved by leaps and bounds since 2019 Worlds, working hard over the off-season. Post their GP disappointments, I'm sure they are hard at work preparing for U.S. Nationals. Surely, they are taking only what they need to learn and apply from their GP events, and hopefully leaving the disappointment behind.

ETA:
I realize that a now legendary Canadian pair in Meagan Duhamel & Eric Radford didn't have the best lines together either. But they had similar spirits and goals. Their different personalities somehow complemented each other. And as they revealed, they grew up in the same region of Canada. When I first saw D/R, they didn't appeal to me at all. They seemed a misbegotten mess. But somehow with determination, they pulled it altogether. It's pretty amazing how they managed to make their physical differences work for them.

Kudos are due to Julie Marcotte for helping D/R figure out how to make their partnership sing on the ice. Perhaps one of the things that helped ace D/R's development is Meagan's supersized will. She is not to be denied when she sets her sights and her heart on achieving a goal. Chiefly though, it was their pure desire and commitment. But you also can't rule out luck, and the fact that Meagan being small and Eric being tall ultimately worked in their favor on some of their elements. Still, they had to work very hard on finding ways to camouflage the physical and stylistic differences. One key is sympatico spirits. Yet despite their success, D/R in some quarters were always dissed for their nontraditional look on the ice. Mostly such attitudes reek of sour grapes and a bit of conservative snobbiness. There's room for all styles and aesthetics in this sport.

Evelyn & Trennt can continue to try hard together, but at the moment I think they are limited as a team in the current pairs environment. They aren't bad together, but they haven't yet found a distinctive style, and they don't have especially great weapons. D/R developed some technical weapons with their athletic skills, and Julie gave them interesting choreo which suited their huge height difference.

 

[Vase]

In Canada the field send to be limited with pair girls, especially with experience. I do like W/M but if he is wanting to change he may have to look for a younger pair girl and hope she advances quickly. KMT seems pretty committed to MM. The Junior girls are young and older ones seems to struggle with jumps. McIntosh has experience, and looks that she may outgrow Brandon’s height. But she seems to have similar body as Walsh, long and lean. But so much on size difference too bad Trennt wasn’t just a little bit taller.

 

[Katta]

I have been a fan of Justine since she set a national novice women's record that stood for a couple of years.
I followed her when she partnered with Steven LaPointe and then with Matthieu Ostiguy. When I heard she was going to partner with Bardei I looked him up on Youtube and watched with a bit of horror. Steven and Matthieu had gently tossed her a couple of feet in competition, Mark was firing his partner half way across the arena. I wondered then how she would manage, or if she would just curl up in a ball and hope for the best. He is not as aggressive with his throws now and she has greatly improved her landings. I agree they are not progressing as quickly as I had hoped but I am not ready to give up on them yet. They could be fabulous -I just don't understand quite why they are taking so long to gel.

I wonder if Bardei being so much taller than both Ostiguy and LaPointe has effected Justine. He is listed as 1.9 where as both her former parters were around 1.75...

 

[Xsktrx]

I wonder if Bardei being so much taller than both Ostiguy and LaPointe has effected Justine. He is listed as 1.9 where as both her former parters were around 1.75...

Have only seen Justine with Bardei. Did she have consistent throw triples with her previous partners? If not, given she’s over 18 they may never be consistent. If she had them before Bardei then the height/power factor may be the problem and adjusting may take a bit longer. I would think that the fearlessness needed for big throws may be harder to develop as one gets older.

 

[Vase]

I wonder if Bardei being so much taller than both Ostiguy and LaPointe has effected Justine. He is listed as 1.9 where as both her former parters were around 1.75...

Height possibly, personalities maybe? Many developing teams on the circuit that struggle with connection.
Justine is listed as 5’1 but she don’t appear to be that short. Why list a height if it’s not accurate.

 

[Xsktrx]

Height possibly, personalities maybe? Many developing teams on the circuit that struggle with connection.
Justine is listed as 5’1 but she don’t appear to be that short. Why list a height if it’s not accurate.

Maybe pairs girls list themselves as 1-2 inches shorter to offset the 1-2 inches the men add to their listed heights...

 

[aftershocks]

In Canada the field send to be limited with pair girls, especially with experience. I do like W/M but if he is wanting to change he may have to look for a younger pair girl and hope she advances quickly. KMT seems pretty committed to MM. The Junior girls are young and older ones seems to struggle with jumps. McIntosh has experience, and looks that she may outgrow Brandon’s height. But she seems to have similar body as Walsh, long and lean. But so much on size difference too bad Trennt wasn’t just a little bit taller.

If Trennt wants to find a partner who may be able to match his strengths and is more physically compatible in terms of body structure and lines, he could search farther afield. He doesn't strike me as being interested in doing so though, at least at the moment.

Again, I don't think the issue with W/M is so much about height as it is about body lines and the current lack of great weapons and stylistic impact as a team. I don't think it's impossible for them to continue being competitive, but perhaps not so much at the highest level domestically and internationally, particularly with some promising Canadian teams coming up and M-T/M and I/B currently at the top for Skate Canada.

 

[aftershocks]

I would think that the fearlessness needed for big throws may be harder to develop as one gets older.

Not if you're Deanna Stellato or Zoe Jones of Great Britain.

To the contrary, Justine may need to mature a bit in her mindset, and if she keeps working the throws may come, or not.

The other part about this is compensating in some way, as for example KMT does with great distance and bang-on consistency but little height on her throw jumps.

 

[puglover]

The most important quality for a pairs team is the desire to work and train together. Trennt and Evelyn seem to be good friends and supportive of each other and that counts for a lot. I am not saying it couldn't work with someone else - but it might be a gamble.

 

[oleada]

I wonder if Bardei being so much taller than both Ostiguy and LaPointe has effected Justine. He is listed as 1.9 where as both her former parters were around 1.75...

I wonder if it’s not only size, but technique. A lot of the Canadian teams have throws that on the smaller side. MT/M, for example, have beautifully landed throws, but the height/distance isn’t huge, compared to the Russian or Chinese teams (yes, I’m aware Barde is from Ukraine). It may be harder for her to control a bigger throw.

 

[Xsktrx]

I wonder if it’s not only size, but technique. A lot of the Canadian teams have throws that on the smaller side. MT/M, for example, have beautifully landed throws, but the height/distance isn’t huge, compared to the Russian or Chinese teams (yes, I’m aware Barde is from Ukraine). It may be harder for her to control a bigger throw.

Could Brasseur land her throw triples consistently before Bardei where I assume her partners threw her lower and not as far? I never saw her skate with her previous partners.

 

[Erin]

Could Brasseur land her throw triples consistently before Bardei where I assume her partners threw her lower and not as far? I never saw her skate with her previous partners.

I don’t know if I would call her super consistent on the throws but they weren’t the problem they are now. Here are a couple videos of her on the JGP with Ostiguy. You can see her landing the throws better than she does now, although not perfectly clean, and they are definitely much smaller than with Mark.

2016 ISU Junior Grand Prix - Ostrava - Pairs Free Skate - Justine BRASSEUR and Mathieu OSTIGUY CAN

Subscribe now to the ISU YouTube channel: http://bit.ly/1moLURT Follow the ISU: http://twitter.com/ISU_FIGURE Like the ISU: http://facebook.com/isufigureskat...

m.youtube.com

2015 ISU Jr. Grand Prix - Linz Pairs Short Program Justine BRASSEUR / Mathieu OSTIGUY CAN

Subscribe now to the ISU YouTube channel: http://bit.ly/1moLURT Follow the ISU: http://twitter.com/ISU_Reporter Like the ISU: http://facebook.com/isufiguresk...

m.youtube.com

 

[RoseRed]

Could Brasseur land her throw triples consistently before Bardei where I assume her partners threw her lower and not as far? I never saw her skate with her previous partners.

I didn't watch then, so I don't know about consistently.

With Ostiguy, at their first JGP in 2015, she did a 3STh with a fall and one with -2s, and a 2LoTh. At their 2nd, she did two 3STh with negative GOE (one 0 to -1, one all -2), and a 2LoTh.

At Nationals she did a 3STh with 0 to +1, a 3STh with -1s, and a 3LoTh with mostly -3.

At JW 2016, she landed two 3STh and a 3LoTh. The loop had slight negative GOE, the sals both had slight positive GOE. At YOG in 2016, two 3STh with mostly 0 GOE, and a fall on a 3LoTh.

At their first JGP in 2016, she fell on a 3FTh and had 0-1 GOE on a 3FTh and a 3STh. At their 2nd, she did two 3FTh with negative GOE and a 3STh with +1s.

So it looks like she did the 3STh semi-consistently, but didn't have a consistent 2nd one.

 

[Derekskate]

I didn't watch then, so I don't know about consistently.

With Ostiguy, at their first JGP in 2015, she did a 3STh with a fall and one with -2s, and a 2LoTh. At their 2nd, she did two 3STh with negative GOE (one 0 to -1, one all -2), and a 2LoTh.

At Nationals she did a 3STh with 0 to +1, a 3STh with -1s, and a 3LoTh with mostly -3.

At JW 2016, she landed two 3STh and a 3LoTh. The loop had slight negative GOE, the sals both had slight positive GOE. At YOG in 2016, two 3STh with mostly 0 GOE, and a fall on a 3LoTh.

At their first JGP in 2016, she fell on a 3FTh and had 0-1 GOE on a 3FTh and a 3STh. At their 2nd, she did two 3FTh with negative GOE and a 3STh with +1s.

So it looks like she did the 3STh semi-consistently, but didn't have a consistent 2nd one.

I didn't watch then, so I don't know about consistently.

With Ostiguy, at their first JGP in 2015, she did a 3STh with a fall and one with -2s, and a 2LoTh. At their 2nd, she did two 3STh with negative GOE (one 0 to -1, one all -2), and a 2LoTh.

At Nationals she did a 3STh with 0 to +1, a 3STh with -1s, and a 3LoTh with mostly -3.

At JW 2016, she landed two 3STh and a 3LoTh. The loop had slight negative GOE, the sals both had slight positive GOE. At YOG in 2016, two 3STh with mostly 0 GOE, and a fall on a 3LoTh.

At their first JGP in 2016, she fell on a 3FTh and had 0-1 GOE on a 3FTh and a 3STh. At their 2nd, she did two 3FTh with negative GOE and a 3STh with +1s.

So it looks like she did the 3STh semi-consistently, but didn't have a consistent 2nd one.

Remember that you are talking about a skater that just turned 18 a few months ago. Is it not uncommon for a pair girl to take a few years to find the perfect timing in throws with a new partner. For instance, Vanessa James (32) started to land throws consistently only 3-4 years ago. I still see them as the number 1 contender for bronze at Nationals, obviously behind much more mature pair girls : Kirsten (27) and Liubov (28)

 

[Vase]

Remember that you are talking about a skater that just turned 18 a few months ago. Is it not uncommon for a pair girl to take a few years to find the perfect timing in throws with a new partner. For instance, Vanessa James (32) started to land throws consistently only 3-4 years ago. I still see them as the number 1 contender for bronze at Nationals, obviously behind much more mature pair girls : Kirsten (27) and Liubov (28)

I agree, so much emphasis on clean elements at junior and senior and yet a few senior girls are still a teenager and most junior pair girls are 13-15yrs.
I see some girls are a more natural jumper, and others have performance, skating skill and great lines. I’m not sure we can name a teenage girl with both qualities, but I see kids working hard to get there.
Overall, a lot are a new teams that are still finding what works for them.

 

[Rock2]

For some of the other pairs, of course all teams are committed through Beijing. After that, whatever happens depends on personal goals within or outside of skating.

Trennt has stated in the past he seems himself on cruise ships, a route many skaters take into retirement. This kind of thinking came before the KO days and his most recent achievements. If I was a betting man I'd say his goals have elevated and he might prefer a schedule that maintains a level of stabiliity for him, factoring in his serious relationship. He might elect to continue and make a switch to see if he can get further in the sport. He's a carded athlete and the cash is starting to roll in. One can get addicted to that

A switch depends on who's available. In the event KMT wants to continue and Mike wants to move on, a natural new pair may form here. Anyone else could come into play as well, since the deck may shuffle a bit or a lot. We'll also have graduated junior skaters to place as well. Always an exciting time.

A note of caution has been pointed out to me, though. Pair boys make adjustments to their technique and bodies to skate with girls who are too big for them. These adjustments can prove problematic in a number of ways, ranging from bad technique (Marinaro) to inconsistency in some elements to an overall bad aesthetic that caps your PCS. This last one caught me by surprise but I was told this factored into Dylan's PCS cap with any partner because he got too big, compromising his line and ability to match his partner. I'm told this risk extends to Trennt right now as he has gained a LOT of size to handle Evelyn. His jumps are slowly becoming less reliable right now too so I'm watching this as well.

UPDATE: on the last note re male size and aesthetics, you can override issues around body type and mismatch to break through PCS barriers, but under more elite circumstances. To do this you need as many of the following as possible: a. prior reputation of at least one partner as world championship worthy based on previous partnership; b. consistent skating; c. huge elements starting with the twist; d. strong packaging and programs. Aljona/Bruno fit into most of this.

 

[aftershocks]

The most important quality for a pairs team is the desire to work and train together. Trennt and Evelyn seem to be good friends and supportive of each other and that counts for a lot. I am not saying it couldn't work with someone else - but it might be a gamble.

It can help tremendously to get along and to fully desire working together and to have mutual goals. However, I disagree with your belief about it being the 'most important quality.' There are simply so many complex factors involved in successful pairs partnerships. Skaters who don't particularly like each other have been known to put their differences aside and commit fully to each other for the greater good. Marissa Castelli & Simon Shnapir come immediately to mind as a pair team who couldn't stand each other personality-wise. But they purposely worked it out and decided to stay together for the longer haul, and they ended up going to the Olympics together, no matter that the partnership ended immediately afterward.

Later, I think Mervin & Marissa got along fairly well in the beginning, but the frustrations connected with their technical struggles and citizenship issues apparently led to their camaraderie breaking down. Ultimately, Marissa seemingly (from something she said in an interview) never adjusted to having a different partner who was not as tall as Simon. Still, M&M were sublimely smooth, with great style, speed, SS, and exciting potential. The bottom line is that they did not have good luck, and they never figured out their technical snafus.

In addition, as it turns out from what we've subsequently heard from Aljona, her partnership with Robin was mainly a professional relationship. They were apparently not that close otherwise. They had different personalities, differing cultural backgrounds and in the beginning different languages, so the communication between them developed slowly. They were bound together chiefly by the fact of how good they were together on the ice, and how deeply they desired to achieve the same goals (Olympic medalists, 5-time World champions, GPF champions, etc). They also stuck together through the difficult passage of dealing with the ostracizing their coach, Ingo Steuer, suffered at the hands of German fed and others harboring jealousies and/or ruffled feathers because of Steuer's prior forced association with the Stasi.

I'm sure there are plenty of other unique examples regarding teams who didn't necessarily get along well, but who excelled in their on-ice partnership. I agree that statistically better results likely predominate with pair teams who actually like each other. In the case of Trennt & Evelyn, there's no doubt that they get along well, and perhaps they will stick it out and improve. In the past couple of seasons, they benefited from the retirement of D/R, and from the problems the aesthetically brilliant Cami/Drew have suffered with lack of consistency, and trying to master more technical difficulty.

We never know what will end up happening. But as it currently stands, I think the drawbacks I mentioned earlier that Trennt/Evelyn face, may make it difficult for them to advance as far as Trennt might be able to advance with a partner of Kirsten's caliber. Still, it is what it is, and I do agree as I already said earlier that pursuing a new partnership takes time and care. What Kirsten and Trennt have invested in their current partnerships is a lot, and not to be scuttled lightly. However, Kirsten & Michael are more successful, whereas Trennt & Evelyn might mutually be able to find better partnership options where they could possibly go farther than their current prospects together indicate. I have to blame the original poster who suggested a Trennt/Kirsten hookup! It just seems like a delectable match. Eh, but I know fanciful matches in our heads don't mean very much in the real world, especially when the odds are against such matches materializing.

BTW, simply lacing up boots and getting out on the ice is a gamble in and of itself.

 

[puglover]

It can help tremendously to get along and to fully desire working together and to have mutual goals. However, I disagree with your belief about it being the 'most important quality.' There are simply so many complex factors involved in successful pairs partnerships. Skaters who don't particularly like each other have been known to put their differences aside and commit fully to each other for the greater good. Marissa Castelli & Simon Shnapir come immediately to mind as a pair team who couldn't stand each other personality-wise. But they purposely worked it out and decided to stay together for the longer haul, and they ended up going to the Olympics together, no matter that the partnership ended immediately afterward.

Later, I think Mervin & Marissa got along fairly well in the beginning, but the frustrations connected with their technical struggles and citizenship issues apparently led to their camaraderie breaking down. Ultimately, Marissa seemingly (from something she said in an interview) never adjusted to having a different partner who was not as tall as Simon. Still, M&M were sublimely smooth, with great style, speed, SS, and exciting potential. The bottom line is that they did not have good luck, and they never figured out their technical snafus.

In addition, as it turns out from what we've subsequently heard from Aljona, her partnership with Robin was mainly a professional relationship. They were apparently not that close otherwise. They had different personalities, differing cultural backgrounds and in the beginning different languages, so the communication between them developed slowly. They were bound together chiefly by the fact of how good they were together on the ice, and how deeply they desired to achieve the same goals (Olympic medalists, 5-time World champions, GPF champions, etc). They also stuck together through the difficult passage of dealing with the ostracizing their coach, Ingo Steuer, suffered at the hands of German fed and others harboring jealousies and/or ruffled feathers because of Steuer's prior forced association with the Stasi.

I'm sure there are plenty of other unique examples regarding teams who didn't necessarily get along well, but who excelled in their on-ice partnership. I agree that statistically better results likely predominate with pair teams who actually like each other. In the case of Trennt & Evelyn, there's no doubt that they get along well, and perhaps they will stick it out and improve. In the past couple of seasons, they benefited from the retirement of D/R, and from the problems the aesthetically brilliant Cami/Drew have suffered with lack of consistency, and trying to master more technical difficulty.

We never know what will end up happening. But as it currently stands, I think the drawbacks I mentioned earlier that Trennt/Evelyn face, may make it difficult for them to advance as far as Trennt might be able to advance with a partner of Kirsten's caliber. Still, it is what it is, and I do agree as I already said earlier that pursuing a new partnership takes time and care. What Kirsten and Trennt have invested in their current partnerships is a lot, and not to be scuttled lightly. However, Kirsten & Michael are more successful, whereas Trennt & Evelyn might mutually be able to find better partnership options where they could possibly go farther than their current prospects together indicate. I have to blame the original poster who suggested a Trennt/Kirsten hookup! It just seems like a delectable match. Eh, but I know fanciful matches in our heads don't mean very much in the real world, especially when the odds are against such matches materializing.

BTW, simply lacing up boots and getting out on the ice is a gamble in and of itself.

Point taken. I worded it too strongly. My son skated pairs to a national novice level and there was just so much drama the results soon became very secondary to him and to us. I realize some teams are not friends and do not hang out together but function well with common goals and a businesslike approach.

 

[aftershocks]

Point taken. I worded it too strongly. My son skated pairs to a national novice level and there was just so much drama the results soon became very secondary to him and to us. I realize some teams are not friends and do not hang out together but function well with common goals and a businesslike approach.

So you were sharing words of wisdom based on your personal experience then. I'm sorry you and your son experienced such pairs partner relationship headaches. But overall, maybe he learned something that might benefit him in other life pursuits. Plus, hopefully there were also some fond memories he recalls regarding the pure joy of skating.

Successful pairs partnerships and competitive experiences probably boil down to individual situations. There are obviously so many different factors involved: ages when the partnership began; skill levels; overall goals and motivations of each partner; physical match-ups; technical training differences and adjustments; personality and cultural differences; country represented and/or citizenship issues for couples from different countries; financial resources; caliber of coaching; training venue; music selection and choreography; available competitive opportunities; politics and federation clout; depth of pairs discipline in country represented; luck and timing, etc.

 

[Rock2]

I realize some teams are not friends and do not hang out together but function well with common goals and a businesslike approach.

My understanding is that Underhill and Martini were the poster children of that very statement

 

[aftershocks]

Remember that you are talking about a skater that just turned 18 a few months ago. Is it not uncommon for a pair girl to take a few years to find the perfect timing in throws with a new partner. For instance, Vanessa James (32) started to land throws consistently only 3-4 years ago. I still see them as the number 1 contender for bronze at Nationals, obviously behind much more mature pair girls : Kirsten (27) and Liubov (28)

Hmmm, Vanessa and Morgan were very reliable on their jumps early on in their pairing, with some issues on certain throws. When they partnered in late 2010, Morgan had transitioned from singles to pairs and he was not very smooth with his pairs elements execution-wise, but it didn't stop him from being quite gung-ho and bravura athletically. Meanwhile, Vanessa had prior experience in pairs with her former partner, Yannick Bonheur. Any trouble on her throws with Morgan was likely more related to adjusting to a new partner who was new to pairs, rather than any personal lack of technical ability and consistency. See the below clip with Bonheur at 2009 Los Angeles Worlds -- James/Bonheur had excellent throws, great lifts and death spiral, good jumping ability and a huge twist albeit with dismount issue on the catch and set down, but still they were very good together, aside from needing some smoothing out and longer term experience with each other, which did not happen because Bonheur retired after the 2010 Olympics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stb_540Jjp4 J/B 2009 Worlds

Meanwhile, James/Cipres' speed, connection, athleticism and death spirals were excellent from the beginning. What took them awhile was perfecting their twist, and in the beginning stages, they had to adjust to perfecting timing and rhythm on lifts and throws, as every pair team has to do. In addition, their improvement in recent years has been more about thoughtful music selection, great choreography, smoothing out their moves and skating more fluidly two as one instead of as two singles skaters performing together.

Vanessa & Morgan a year after they paired:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPKs3N7nXZM TEB 2011 sp throw landing forward w/ tumble

2013 sp TEB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsiQrfihiXM throw landing forward w/ hand down
2013 fp TEB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIr5j0k_LGk great on first throw; problems on 2nd
2015 Euros sp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbGhMDKN_AM notable improvement

IMO, any issues for Justine Brasseur should not really be translated or generalized to any other pairs diva, who all have different career trajectories, abilities and partnership circumstances.